Master Loot Change with 6.3.2

[timovdt]

1 step closer to killing of the game gj bw ! keep copying wow there biggest mistakes

[RikuvonDrake]

That's fair enough, but how many runs of 10 stack dreadtooth, ancient threat or full dreadful pugs do you recon that you ran between, let's say the end of January until May?

 

Yea I understand you don't bring pugs to Hateful, my thought was that if the guy with the orb was missing you would make a quick dreadful and then bring 4 randoms in the buyers place. And that in these cases you were far more likely to ask friends, guildmates or ppl from the normal raiding pug discords before you asked in general chat, and even if you asked in fleet chat first, it would at most be 4 pugs. the tldr is that your example this only has a negative impact in very niche situations for a tiny amount of people

 

unsure what your SNV pugs have to do with it, but using those as another example, this change won't matter for them unless the setbonus or tactical that drops is very important and the pug you brought doesn't wanna trade it, which would have been the same even with the current system where they could have needed on it, won and then still not traded

 

again, I agree there are very few niche cases, probably one or two every few months for 2-3 players at max level, with endgame stats and gearing, might perhaps lose the chance to join some of these runs and spend the entire time dead. that's a negative impact that i think that most players are willing to accept in return for a final end to ninja looters abusing master looter to yoink items

[Baletraeger]

Don't do this.

 

Personal loot is generally disliked in the game you are constantly trying to copy.

 

If the loot system is causing friction then look at the root cause and address it. Don't remove yet another player interaction because the big MMO 'solved' the problem like that.

 

How about a loot priority system? How about an ingame DKP system? How about a loot lock so group leaders cannot change the loot type once the raid starts? There are alternatives that you could explore

[Flying-Brian]

Here is a request to the DEV's to make a change with 6.3.2.

 

Please add the Apex Predator armor set to the Bounty Hunter/Trooper vendor.

 

It has been almost 2 years since 6.0 launched that this set has not been obtainable from a vendor (other then the few times a year that a piece is available from Kai), and over a year since the Apex Predator set became the main needed DPS set for arsenal/gunnery after update 6.1.2 when the Concentrated Fire set was nerfed.

 

With the end of the content cycle just a few months away, could the DEV's please throw merc/mando players a bone and let this set be available to buy from the vendor. There is no reason what so ever that it should still be an exclusive OP or RNG crate only drop.

[LordCamTheGreat]

You're misunderstanding the post. Master Loot is going to be replaced by a behind-the-scenes roll. The RNG is not going anywhere. It will still be one player getting the drop; instead of being decided by the group leader, it will be decided in the future by a hidden roll by the game.

 

If this is the case, that is worse than what we currently have as at least players can choose to greed or pass rolls. Relying on other players to trade something that is already in their inventory will result in more friction than them clicking greed or pass imo.

 

My hope lies in the fact that the system is being called "personal loot" and that they mentioned gear dropping for your discipline and improving the loot experience for "all" players. How would the experience be improved for all players if only one player gets the loot due to a hidden roll? Either way I'm glad I can buy most of the sets and tacticals I want from the tech frag vendors and not rely on group rolls (apart from Apex).

[RJWidowMaker]

Hi everyone,

 

We wanted to let you all know about an upcoming change that will be happening with Patch 6.3.2.

 

Currently, SWTOR has a Master Loot option which allows the party leader to choose who receives each gear piece and a Group Loot option where gear must be rolled on by members of the party and highest roll wins. This has led to unwanted friction during the loot process, so we are working to build an efficient process that removes this type of negative player experience and potentially harmful behaviors. In order to achieve this, we will be removing the Master Loot system to bring us closer to what we are calling the Personal Loot system.

 

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

We took a first step towards Personal Loot during the Onslaught expansion where gear was given based on your discipline. This has worked well, promoted a healthy player experience, and we want to continue building upon this system. Patch 6.3.2 will be the next step along that path as we move towards our 10th anniversary.

 

6.3.2 is currently targeted for end of the month/early September.

 

"What we are calling personal loot" Hahahahaha, yeah after wow coined the term years ago.

[TrixxieTriss]

You're misunderstanding the post. Master Loot is going to be replaced by a behind-the-scenes roll. The RNG is not going anywhere. It will still be one player getting the drop; instead of being decided by the group leader, it will be decided in the future by a hidden roll by the game.

 

That’s such a shame. This could be an opportunity for BioWare to do away with more RNG and distribute drops more fairly and targeted. Ie, if you already have “x”, you won’t get it again as a drop.

Another way would be to just give a copy of the item to everyone and let them decide if they need it. But we know BioWare won’t do that because the hampster wheel and grind is how they keep people playing old content.

[Akushii]

Please listen to the feedback devs. This is a very bad idea.

 

My feedback for this is, let the leader choose what the loot rule will be. Just like you can switch to a Master Loot, let there be option so that you can SET it to personal loot. More options is better than taking options away. If you want, you can make it so group finder enforces the personal loot.

 

For guild groups and pre-formed groups, it is still beneficial to have Master Loot. The game still encourages carry runs, sale runs etc. With removing master loot, this negatively affects the group.

 

An example of this is, lets say a guild organizes a 10 stack Dreadtooth run for 3-4 weeks. On the day of the run, they need 2-3 fills for the group. The guild provides all the items required to get Dreadtooth to 10 stack. Now at the end of the kill, if the fill-ins or the 'pugs' walks away the amulet and the pet, when they contributed minimally, it is a slap in the face for the other guildies and guild members that organized the event in the first place. The same thing could happen in operations as well. Lets say a team is farming a mount or the bonus boss on TFB/SnV, you NEED Master Loot.

[rylixav]

we will be removing the Master Loot system to bring us closer to what we are calling the Personal Loot system.

 

Good. Master loot is awful and always has been. It's an endless drama and conflict generator on top of being an enormous waste of everyone's time.

 

gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

Doesn't this almost completely negate the new system though? Now a GM can just say "We still master loot. You have to give your items to whoever we say, or you get kicked from the guild." I guess it's still technically better, because you can always take the /gkick instead of giving up your items. But of course you can only do that once, so it doesn't really change things in practice all that much.

 

A much better system would be to not show other people's drops in chat log. Then someone could share their drops if they're feeling generous, but they couldn't be forced to give up items against their will.

[rylixav]

Please listen to the feedback devs. This is a very bad idea.

 

Well, I suppose it's a very bad idea if you want to take other people's stuff. Of course if you don't want to take other people's stuff, then it's pretty great.

 

The game still encourages carry runs, sale runs etc.

 

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

Edited August 26, 2021 by rylixav
zzz

[rylixav]

Why would I invite someone to my run I made to get Dreadtooth mask or Brontes Wings for myself or someone else, perhaps a friend, if that random pug that might join could just refuse to trade it to the person the run was created for?

 

Uh, you shouldn't? Why do we need a system that allows you to exploit random pugs in order to get loot for yourself?

 

If you want something for yourself, then solo the content and get it for yourself. If you can't solo it, then you don't deserve to have all the loot just for yourself.

[Akushii]

Well, I suppose it's a very bad idea if you want to take other people's stuff. Of course if you don't want to take other people's stuff, then it's pretty great.

 

Did you even read the example I gave? In more often then not, the ninja loot occurs WITHOUT Master Loot. If a group is using Master Loot, everyone in the group knows it's on Master Loot and a player has the option to leave. Like I said, I have personally organized several Dreadtooth runs for my guilds (Usually doing 3 kills in one night for 3 amulets). I even use guild resources to take Dreadtooth to the 10 stack. Why should a pug that came in, died in the first roar to reflect damage then get to walk away with the loot? They did not organize the event, they did not put any resources in, and were dead most of the fight. They still have a chance at rolling the masks and other stuff, just not the Amulet.

 

Similarly, I've had it where I was farming the Emergency Power piece with my guild, we brought in 4 Powertechs to do so. One night, one of our member wasn't around so we filled with a random player, that just happened to be a Powertech. We explained and specifically told them what piece we were looking for, and they could roll on the other pieces if it dropped. But guess what, that one piece dropped that our main tank needed, but this dps rolled and won the piece because he 'may' want to try and play tank some day. Master Loot would definitely have helped us there.

 

I generally run with people I know or are referred, so I almost never use Master Loot. But I have run into enough ninja looting, when Master Loot was NOT being used, that I think it's a good system.

 

As I said in my suggestion, I think that Master Loot should still be an Option. Let the regular loot system be personal, but let us have the option to turn on Master Loot. And to take it one step further, they can enforce Personal Loot on group finder. But let us have the option of Master Loot in pre-made groups.

[Nee-Elder]

Talk about not thinking things through (on BW's part) and unintended consequences (for the players)

 

Yep , sorry to pile on here BioWare but.... UGH what a terrible decision this is , imo.

 

I am yet again baffled by decisions recently (removing 'sleep dart' from Operatives, really?!?! ) that seem to come totally out of developer left-field.

 

And for what logical reason or request? Truly baffling.

 

*EDIT: Thankfully, BioWare isn't removing 'sleep dart' from Operatives after all--> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9966715#edit9966715

 

Good. Master loot is awful and always has been. It's an endless drama and conflict generator on top of being an enormous waste of everyone's time.

 

Strange cuz i've practically NEVER had an issue with the existing system and i've been here since 2011 beta.

 

So, maybe it's the PLAYERS and not the system?

 

Either way, 10+ years and 2985729857495873405 groups i've either been in or been leader of , and i literally cannot recall any issues ever in my groups. ----Actually, i just thought of ONE: 'Gods' op , a buddy accidentally looted something (control module) i needed that wasn't tradeable. But that's it. So one in 10+ years.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nee-Elder
ugh BioWare ... i still support you and the game ...but UGH WHY make this change??!!?!? Why?

[fabsus]

what we need is:

 

- an clear indicator what looting system is active

- disable changes during fights

- only enable changes if everybody agrees.

 

the "ninja looting" is not just in operations or flashpoints. there are also tons of groups for

world bosses, with locked items. some make it clear, some not.

 

but some bosses should be changed, too. for example it takes time to farm the

essences to stack up dreadtooth. so the number of dropped essences should be increased,

if you can't lock the amoulett

[Daxisaclone]

Just to confirm, this only affects gear, everything else like decorations, mounts, pets, crafting materials and so on which can drop from content will still be decided via roll?

 

Good question.

Personally I hope BW put an end to rolling for anything. If all members do the OP, they should all get the same reward.

[Ivan_babca]

Ah sh*t, here we go again.

So lets just think for a second what this system does for players and what it solves.

 

First of all, this doesn't do anything in terms of RNG removal, instead you just replace a visible and somewhat engaging system where the person sees the item that a boss dropped and decides wheter to roll on it or not with an invisible roll, which only adds stupidity to the whole process. You can't even pass or greed on an item that you don't need or want, which is absurd.

 

Secondly, this change only encourages toxicity towards people who for whatever reason won't give you the gear that you need so desperately after two years from the start of the expansion. You removed votekick from ranked (which was dumb too), you have a profanity filter in the game and constantly speak of how you don't want toxicity to exist in your game. And then you decide to change the loot distribution to one that WILL make players angry at one another because someone doesn't want to give away an item that they don't need anyways. Genious.

 

So let's think where this system is from, why it was introduced and how well recieved in the past. This obviously comes from WoW, where the same change was probably recieved the worst out of all their stupid gatekeeping and unneccessary systems/changes in the past. But since WoW has the classic gearing process where loot drops from bosses/pvp/worldquests etc. it actually somewhat makes sense in their case.

In SWTOR however, the gearing process has been trivialized to the maximum, you basically don't even have to do anything to get geared.

And what about the NiM ops where you practically don't get rewarded at all these days? Will the drop of unique items and mounts also be randomized? What if the person this wonderful system decided to give the item to already has it? Will it just dissapear and the group gets rewaded with frustration?

At least WoW devs clarified how the system will work with mounts and unique loot beforehand, but people were still very unhappy with this change. And you just forgot to talk about how this change will affect NiM-specific drops, which is the most important part of the game for many players including myself???

I sincerely hope that this Personal Loot won't affect NiM mounts, decos and unique items, otherwise this whole system will be the peak of absurdity and nonsense.

BTW, great job at copying a system off of a gamecompany that has a lawsuit in process against them! Doesn't have anything to do with the loot of course, but great job at creating the best possible image for yourselves!

 

Nevertheless yes, I have to agree, there have been problems with Master Looter in the past - masterlooting frameworks and other important drops (That aren't gear btw and that were not even adressed in the original post). But the simplest and easiest fix to that is just disabling the option to change loot rules while in combat.

 

None of what you change is neccesary or wanted, none of it is logical or good from a players perspective, as usual.

Thanks for another thing nobody asked for!!!

[lorddjole]

 

 

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

We took a first step towards Personal Loot during the Onslaught expansion where gear was given based on your discipline. This has worked well, promoted a healthy player experience, and we want to continue building upon this system. Patch 6.3.2 will be the next step along that path as we move towards our 10th anniversary.

 

6.3.2 is currently targeted for end of the month/early September.

 

I dont think imo this is good if i am understanding correctly. basically pass and roll is removed... which means i cant pass on stuff i dont need or dont want. So i can get them. And when i get them i need to give them to those who need or want them. But then u have 4 people that want that item i got and dont want ... and then CONFLICT lol and back again to /roll in game. Waste of time during raids.

Pugs (even tough i dont do them) will be dramatic with this tracking who got what. Then u have special items and mounts like Wings from Bronty. And lets say we do farm then i get them and i dont want them and other 4 people want them... So instead of me selecting pass and them just rolling... now i got them, they need to roll and then i need to trade with person that won this roll.

A bit more information on how this will work exactly would be nice. How will game track and can u get doubles ? for example if i have wings on my char can I win them again ?

Imagine 16 man DP and i get the throne and other 14 people want it.... Track all rolls make sure top roll gets deco and then trade

Edited August 26, 2021 by lorddjole

[lorddjole]

I sincerely hope that this Personal Loot won't affect NiM mounts, decos and unique items, otherwise this whole system will be the peak of absurdity and nonsense.

 

This is my question as well.... if this system affects Mounts decos and special items .... idk what to say

[JulWolle]

Well, I suppose it's a very bad idea if you want to take other people's stuff. Of course if you don't want to take other people's stuff, then it's pretty great.

 

 

 

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

 

I think you don't understand it, it is not their loot if i invite with the condition that they cannot roll for it. Now they have the option if it is worth their time to still join me for achievments/other loot or not. WIth the new changes those ppl just will be not invited at all and will not able to do the bosses/get the items at all

[micnevv]

Why are you so intent on copying WoW?

 

SWTOR has always copied WoW in regards to its gameplay, but the reality is that WoW had been on the decline for these past few years. Their ML change is one of the many reasons why I've played the game less and less recently.

 

This change along with the new Talent tree makes it clear that you are looking in the wrong places for inspiration.

Edited August 26, 2021 by micnevv

[Screaming_Ziva]

The only problem with master looter was that there was no warning to a player when they joined a group if master looter was on or not (and I assume most people never even check when they join a group).

 

All that needed to be done was post an alert to the player joining the group letting them know master looter was on. If they want to stay, great. If they don't like it, they can just leave the group.

 

Also, I don't know if this was ever a thing or not but don't let ML be changed while in combat or, better yet, if the leader wants to change to ML during an op, post a vote like when you're trying to kick someone from the group.

[Sarova]

I have been wanting a personal loot system without rolling or master loot since FOREVER. The absolute worst feeling I get when playing a flashpoint or operation is seeing a tactical or set piece I need on a boss, only for the group roll to go poorly and it gets given to someone who isn't even playing the class that uses said item. If this is what I think it is and we don't roll for loot, we just get our own loot, I am really looking forward to this. Allowing people to trade what they get for a brief period would be the cherry on top.

They're only changing Master Loot in 6.3.2 For the moment people will still be able to Need on stuff they don't need. I'm also surprised they think people in random groups will actually be willing to trade.

[Tsillah]

The only problem with master looter was that there was no warning to a player when they joined a group if master looter was on or not (and I assume most people never even check when they join a group).

 

All that needed to be done was post an alert to the player joining the group letting them know master looter was on. If they want to stay, great. If they don't like it, they can just leave the group.

 

Also, I don't know if this was ever a thing or not but don't let ML be changed while in combat or, better yet, if the leader wants to change to ML during an op, post a vote like when you're trying to kick someone from the group.

Well that's the issue indeed, ML can be set during combat. Particularly during the last boss fight of an Ops. That's when it usually happens. Nobody notices it when they're too busy fighting and if they notice it, it'll be too late too do anything about it.

[Beoknez]

i have a suggestion:

 

do NOT touch master loot?

 

Greetings, a concerned citizen

[Elssha]

i have a suggestion:

 

do NOT touch master loot?

 

Greetings, a concerned citizen

I'd say just disable it in GF FP/Uprisings (do ppl do uprisings?) and SM ops... just to save new players from ninja looting. Maybe increase the sys msg warning that it's been set to that if you want to.

 

And, for the same reason, block swapping to master looter in combat... which should have always been a thing.

 

Done, fixed.