New information about combat styles in 7.0

[LordCamTheGreat]

Two things I do not like so far:

 

Disciplines choices are permanent. What? Why can't respec to something else?

Can not switch loadouts while in a phase. The majority of the game is in a phase.

 

Discipline choices are not permanent, your combat styles (think advanced classes) are. You choose 2 combat styles which you can freely switch between. You can then freely switch between disciplines exactly the same way you do on live with field respec or the fleet vendor.

 

If you mean why are the combat style choices permanent, Chris said that it's a lot more "clean" for the devs to deal with and that in the future they might allow you to replace a combat style as a quality of life thing.

 

You already can't swap your loadout within warzones, but yeah it's kinda annoying in operations and flashpoints where someone leaves, or you want to switch from your burst spec to dot spec on a boss.

[phalczen]

3 should be the number, to let you alternate between T/H/D.

 

I agree. Two seems too limiting, especially if we only get one loadout per combat style.

 

I just don't know about this system anymore. I honestly can't see myself using this system if a loadout is permanently linked to a combat style. Instead of allowing me to conveniently swap between heal/dps disciplines, or tank/dps disciplines, it seems like I'll be locked to a permanent loadout and be forced to swap to a different advanced class. So, instead of being able to easily swap between Defense Guardian and Vigilance Guardian, or Shield Vanguard/Plasmatech VG, I'll be forced to choose a whole different advanced class, or go through the same tedious process of respeccing discipline as on LIVE.

 

EDIT: This system offers ZERO of the convenience I hoped. I have no need to swap my Defense Guardian to a dps Sage, Shadow or Sentinel. I already have those advanced classes. I don't need my Trooper to swap to Gunslinger or Mercenary, just to be able to wield two pistols, because I want to use trooper abilities, not gunslinger or mercenary ones. I realize it could be desirable for some people, but the system should have been designed from the ground up to save disciplines into loadouts too, and it wouldn't have hurt those people who want to use two blasters and don't mind swapping their Trooper to a gunslinger or mercenary. The only thing I would use this system for is to change my light-sligned Warrior into a Knight, and my Sorc to a Sage.

 

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited August 20, 2021 by phalczen

[TonyTricicolo]

I was expecting something like GW2 where you can weapon swap(SWTOR Loadouts) mid combat with a short cd in between. The fact that you can't switch in phase takes away the whole point of having loadouts.

[LordCamTheGreat]

I agree. Two seems too limiting, especially if we only get one loadout per combat style.

 

I just don't know about this system anymore. I honestly can't see myself using this system if a loadout is permanently linked to a combat style. Instead of allowing me to conveniently swap between heal/dps disciplines, or tank/dps disciplines, it seems like I'll be locked to a permanent loadout and be forced to swap to a different advanced class. So, instead of being able to easily swap between Defense Guardian and Vigilance Guardian, or Shield Vanguard/Plasmatech VG, I'll be forced to choose a whole different advanced class, or go through the same tedious process of respeccing discipline as on LIVE.

 

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

I went back through the interview a few times to try and get information on this while writing my original post, but this is one of the most important clarifications that wasn't covered in the interview. We don't currently know if your loadout is tied to each combat style, or if you can put both loadouts in one combat style and attach the loadouts to specific disciplines or not. I am hoping that we are free to do whatever we want with our loadouts, having both in the same combat style or splitting between. I'm not convinced that the loadouts will be permanent considering we will be swapping gear and will thus need to update the loadout with gear, tacticals, outfits etc.

[Tsillah]

Well if current set bonuses will not work on level 80 characters I do hope that we'll get new bonus sets. Of course they didn't talk about the elephant in the room: amplifiers.

 

Cause it's become clear now that if they're keeping that system (which I think they will) we're going to have to do it all over again as well. And the way the are now after the update they got is actually worse.

 

---

 

Now you say in point 2 that there will be 2 loadouts and then in point 3 you refer to them as combat styles. Are those the same then? Or is it just that you can only pick them via loadouts. So you wouldn't be able to pick 2 combat styles but use the loadout for one combat style with 2 disciplines (like heal and dps discipline)?

[FlameYOL]

Thank you for this post, I didn't watched the interview but your post is very informative. I do share the sentiments that I believe only 2 combat styles/loadouts are rather limited, hopefully the developers consider making the change that allows you to pick different combat styles within LOTS itself, or at the very least add a 3rd slot both styles and loadouts. The rest seems pretty good, I understand the reasoning behind the changes much more clearly now, as for gearing I hope they at least keep the Spoils of War system, it would be nice if Chris or anyone else could clarify if he means gearing changes only in the realms of the current set bonuses/tacticals or if changes will be made to Spoils of War if not a replacement of the system. Edited August 20, 2021 by FlameYOL

[LordCamTheGreat]

Well if current set bonuses will not work on level 80 characters I do hope that we'll get new bonus sets. Of course they didn't talk about the elephant in the room: amplifiers.

 

Cause it's become clear now that if they're keeping that system (which I think they will) we're going to have to do it all over again as well. And the way the are now after the update they got is actually worse.

 

---

 

Now you say in point 2 that there will be 2 loadouts and then in point 3 you refer to them as combat styles. Are those the same then? Or is it just that you can only pick them via loadouts. So you wouldn't be able to pick 2 combat styles but use the loadout for one combat style with 2 disciplines (like heal and dps discipline)?

 

Chris said that they can't share details yet but there will be new gearing, multiple tiers of gear, new set bonuses etc.

 

Loadouts and combat styles are different things, though we are still waiting on clarification for exactly how we choose our loadouts - whether it is one per combat style or if we can put both in one. Combat styles are for all intents and purposes advanced classes. Marauder, sorcerer, sage, operative, gunslinger, guardian - we call these advanced classes on live, but they will be known as combat styles next expansion.

 

This means that if you choose guardian as your first combat style, you gain access to the defense, focus and vigilance disciplines because those disciplines are part of the guardian advanced class/combat style.

You then pick a second combat style which might be sage - in which case when you swap from guardian to sage (which you can do at will outside of phases for no cost), you get access to all 3 sage disciplines. The hope is that you can then pick and choose which 2 disciplines out of those 6 overall (across sage and guardian) you want to be your 2 loadouts. Theoretically you could at the click of a button swap from a tank guardian to a sage healer and all your abilities, gear, tacticals and outfit would instantly change to how you set them up.

 

Essentially you get to double the amount of disciplines you have access to, potentially picking a combat style that has access to a tank discipline and another combat style that has access to a healing disicpline (like sage and guardian).

[LordCamTheGreat]

Thank you for this post, I didn't watched the interview but your post is very informative. I do share the sentiments that I believe only 2 combat styles/loadouts are rather limited, hopefully the developers consider making the change that allows you to pick different combat styles within LOTS itself, or at the very least add a 3rd slot both styles and loadouts. The rest seems pretty good, I understand the reasoning behind the changes much more clearly now, as for gearing I hope they at least keep the Spoils of War system, it would be nice if Chris or anyone else could clarify if he means gearing changes only in the realms of the current set bonuses/tacticals or if changes will be made to Spoils of War if not a replacement of the system.

 

Thank you for reading! The interview definitely gave me a much greater understanding of the system and plans even though I'm the type of player who has read every single thing posted about 7.0, tested every spec on pts etc. If losing some abilities means more flexibility and even new combat styles in the future, I'm more ok with it.

 

I really do think 3 slots would be the sweet spot, one for pvp, one for pve, one for open world. One for heals, tank and dps. It just makes sense to me.

 

We don't know about gearing yet unfortunately apart from the fact that there will be multiple gear tiers and new set bonuses and tacticals. I personally hope the spoils of war tech fragment system stays and we just get new things within it, because I've loved being able to play however I want and slowly build up set bonuses over time without needing to play this specific raid to get a random chest drop like we had to in the past.

[phalczen]

I went back through the interview a few times to try and get information on this while writing my original post, but this is one of the most important clarifications that wasn't covered in the interview. We don't currently know if your loadout is tied to each combat style, or if you can put both loadouts in one combat style and attach the loadouts to specific disciplines or not. I am hoping that we are free to do whatever we want with our loadouts, having both in the same combat style or splitting between. I'm not convinced that the loadouts will be permanent considering we will be swapping gear and will thus need to update the loadout with gear, tacticals, outfits etc.

 

Fair enough. But if I can’t save one load out as “defense guardian” with one set of level 15-80 ability choices (perhaps PVE oriented), and another load out as “defense guardian” with another set of level 15-80 ability choices, and the same for at least one set of choices for vigilance, I’m going to be disappointed, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. Because what I have now is essentially that, just far bulkier and more cumbersome to swap. It’s all well and good that the developers want to open up the option for more combat styles in the future but what good is it if it doesn’t improve my quality of life right now? And as I’ve said elsewhere, without the ability to name the load outs it will be cumbersome to recognize the differences. It will be fine if we can’t change an existing load out as long as we can delete it and create a new one, if we decide a different ability choice is more useful.

 

I mean, are they really saying you can pick two load outs, one for each combat style, that will be permanent until 8.0 or if there is a patch that changes a passive so that we get a free respec (like we do when they change utilities)? I mean, if the system is going to be that restrictive we might as well just not have it at all and they can spend more time creating warzones, operations, daily areas, story content, whatever. I realize you may not have the answers I’m just providing feedback on the slim chance a developer is reading this.

[eabevella]

It sounds promising.

 

I can make my Agent sniper/operative, the way I always want him to be, but I can also imagine vet players picking one stealth combat style just to skip stuffs because this is the first thing that came into my mind.

 

I can understand the limitation of 2 combat styles because I would semi-retire some of my alts if not for the fact that I switch toon to grind TC lol Guess that's what BW wants to avoid.

 

How Loadout works will be crucial. I wish we have as many options to edit/choose how our combat style/discipline/gear/outfit/abilities/UI are set, and be truly able to save-load it with one click.

Edited August 20, 2021 by eabevella

[LordCamTheGreat]

I mean, are they really saying you can pick two load outs, one for each combat style, that will be permanent until 8.0 or if there is a patch that changes a passive so that we get a free respec (like we do when they change utilities)? I mean, if the system is going to be that restrictive we might as well just not have it at all and they can spend more time creating warzones, operations, daily areas, story content, whatever. I realize you may not have the answers I’m just providing feedback on the slim chance a developer is reading this.

 

Hopefully the devs are indeed reading the forums considering they just had an interview which answered a lot of questions and opened a load more. Fingers crossed. Listening to Chris was really great because he stated that game development for swtor is about taking community feedback, learning from it and using it to improve things in the future, so the more constructive feedback we as a community can put forth, the greater chance that things do change for the better even if it's not immediately obvious.

 

In the end it all depends on whether the loadouts are intrinsically tied to each combat style or not. I really would not be surprised if we can buy more loadout slots with cartel coins. We have had "free" respecs in the past for things like utilities when there were big changes, they'd all get reset so you can choose again. The way I think loadouts would work is that similarly to outfits where you apply a currently stamped outfit, you might have a loadout button that says "save to slot 1" and "save to slot 2", then another 2 buttons that apply whatever was saved into those slots. (Final Fantasy 14 works in a similar way where you continuously update your loadout slots and click a button to apply them, and Chris did actually namedrop Final Fantasy 14 which I was not expecting at all but suggests they drew some inspiration from it.)

 

Speaking of warzones and other content, in the original 7.0 livestream they did mention that there would be changes to pvp and new content throughout all of next year as part of the 10th anniversary update, so we're likely getting these changes, new content, then maybe by this time next year the devs will be like sure have another couple loadout slots.

[Zorii_Bliss]

Thanks for posting this new info and to MaxtheGrey for scooping the interview with Mr Schmidt.

 

Great that someone who should know what's intended has finally gone on the record to tell us something a bit more meaningful.

 

Sadly that's about where all the joy ends...

 

I don't get what "cognitive cost" has to do with them limiting our choice. People play to their individual "cognitive capacity" and there are many players who have mastered many/all of the advanced classes and certainly have a decent, playable grasp of several if they've been with SWTOR for many if not all these past years. Sounds like a whole load of spin to justify limiting choice "oh we realise people are likely to find it too confusing to switch from one playstyle to the next so we'll stop them from being able to choose between more than 2". I do get limiting the swapping to outside an instance/phase from a gameplay balancing and experience management perspective.

I'd also be more understanding about a rationale along the lines of the practicality of swapping substantially different gear sets. Although we can do it in the current game with our magical "TARDIS backpacks" (with up to 5 full "loadouts" of 15 items including multiple auto cannons, sniper rifles and polearms to go with armour sets).

 

I don't understand the technical constraint about having multiple loadouts creating game performance issues because there are still only 1-x players in the group/op each playing an adv class at any one time. Chris specifically mentioned data overhead but it's all ones and zeroes that only become consequential when you have to render and animate and calculate outcomes for them... which would be replacing the gear you've just put away and are no longer rendering and animating and calculating for. Perhaps a dev could pipe up and explain more?

 

Saying you don't want new players to be confused by choice so you prevent Jedi choosing lightning at the start is a tad weak as the player establishes their alignment as they go, which opens up their expression of Force powers. And even if they are new to the game they can be steeped in the lore of SW moreso than any current player who's already unlocked their Legacy in all the substantive dimensions.

 

I know Legacy achievements have fast-tracked QoL and abilityfor subsequent toons for years but the inheritance of genetic/personal ability has always rankled a bit with me. I'd prefer that each toon "earns" their choice of powers through their specific play choices. Perhaps a multi-class approach to gaining LS and DS powers would've been better as each toon accumulated LS and DS XP?

 

What does several tiers of gear at 80 mean? PvE vs PvP sets? green and blue "trash" on the way to new "move the goalposts again" endgame gear?

Genuinely different set-bonused gear at L77 that need to be replaced at L80 to do MM or NiM?

 

Will tech frags be the ongoing currency for endgame gearing?

 

With the cutover to the new combat styles how are they going to manage the obsolescence/breaking of gear set bonuses and tacticals? Because with all the ability changes all our much ground-for gear (and many millions spent) will be broken. Will we be able to trade broken items for new ones? Will it be another dead-end like Masterworks? Will the gear just acquire new ability mixes? Or will there be some magically superior "270" green gear that is easily acquired from L76 trash mobs that are suddenly superior to the "rare" stuff need to conquer L75 NiM Ops?

 

The autoselection of abilities in the ABC branches to avoid people forgetting to spend points introduces a risk of bugs that keeps "resetting" ability choices to default once players have customised their ABC choices? Why not just have reminder dialogs to tell a player they have not saved critical choices? If the choices need to be made as part of the buiiding out of a functioning toon then you shouldn't be able to exit the choice dialog without saving a choice.

 

With the loadouts changing ability sets there will need to be new logic to indicate which equipped gear is incompatible with the abilities enabled. Just gotta love the added complexity that will inevitably bring bugs.

 

Theorycrafters will no doubt have their part to play in determining the tedium of the new "optimal" rotations BUT with the significance of choosing A.B or C in each Advance Class will Op composition theorycrafting now mandate which branch you have to choose? So what is sold as freedom of playstyle is constrained by greater peer-pressure in grouped content?

 

Limiting Loadouts to 2 and making the choice of combat style permanent is a major mistake. Fine if you have only 2 Loadouts that can be reconfigured to whatever combat style and required gear and desired outfit in between adventuring. The freedom to play a "Jedi" or a non-Force user should free you to play any kind of Jedi or conventional weapon user NOT to say you can only ever be a sentinel/shadow or a gunslinger/commando.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Zorii_Bliss

[Omega]

It’s all well and good that the developers want to open up the option for more combat styles in the future but what good is it if it doesn’t improve my quality of life right now?

 

Wow...do people read back what they type? Are you that self centered?

 

I actually do hope the devs read the feedback on these boards. But if I was a professional looking for constructive feedback, I'd read that post and skip right past the temper tantruming child.

[FlameYOL]

 

We don't know about gearing yet unfortunately apart from the fact that there will be multiple gear tiers and new set bonuses and tacticals. I personally hope the spoils of war tech fragment system stays and we just get new things within it, because I've loved being able to play however I want and slowly build up set bonuses over time without needing to play this specific raid to get a random chest drop like we had to in the past.

 

Likewise, it is my favorite system in the game thus far in the 8 years I've played.

[Drenovade]

Two permanent combat styles? In other words, a stealth one and a non-stealth one. The ability to sneak past enemies, sap them, and vanish during combat has so many applications in both PvE and PvP, that from an optimization standpoint, it makes no sense to not pick at least one stealth combat style.

 

Also, balancing one's two choices as dps/tank and dps/healer combat styles comes with the benefit of being able to fulfill any role in group content.

 

Putting those two things together, makes Shad/Sin + Sage/Sorc the most versatile build for Force users, and VG/PT + Sco/Op the most versatile build for tech users.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Two permanent combat styles? In other words, a stealth one and a non-stealth one. The ability to sneak past enemies, sap them, and vanish during combat has so many applications in both PvE and PvP, that from an optimization standpoint, it makes no sense to not pick at least one stealth combat style.

 

Also, balancing one's two choices as dps/tank and dps/healer combat styles comes with the benefit of being able to fulfill any role in group content.

 

Putting those two things together, makes Shad/Sin + Sage/Sorc the most versatile build for Force users, and VG/PT + Sco/Op the most versatile build for tech users.

 

I agree with that, there are definitely "meta" choices in terms of filling group finder roles and stealth is extremely powerful (unless a load of mobs gain stealth detection as part of the npc rebalancing). Personally I think getting a class with stealth would be more valuable than filling out a group finder role as you can always just swap characters if you have enough alts (and you can't swap inside a phase so no stealthing up to a boss then swapping to another class). My sniper and operative characters will likely just grab the other imperial agent advanced class as their second option and go full in on knives and snipes, but picking the rest will certainly be interesting.

[Zorii_Bliss]

Wow...do people read back what they type? Are you that self centered?

 

I actually do hope the devs read the feedback on these boards. But if I was a professional looking for constructive feedback, I'd read that post and skip right past the temper tantruming child.

 

What's the point of your selectively quoted aka misrepresentative snipe at a person making a very valid point, if you bother to actually read what he's saying?

 

Seems your post is nothing more than a pandering ego-stroke to a bunch of professionals who should be doing more to properly describe the product they've been working on for many, many months according to a plan that has been in place for even longer.

 

If I went up to a dev that I was working with and asked them to explain the feature they're working on and they could not fully explain the design choices made then I'd be frickin' fuming.

[phalczen]

Wow...do people read back what they type? Are you that self centered?

 

I actually do hope the devs read the feedback on these boards. But if I was a professional looking for constructive feedback, I'd read that post and skip right past the temper tantruming child.

 

I'd point you to my detailed feedback threads on Jedi Guardian on the PTS.

 

When 5.0 came out, my quality of life largely improved over 4.x because I would not be focused on running the weekly highlighted hard mode operation to earn BiS gear. I could do the things I wanted, which involved a mix of content, and generally continue to earn gear. There were problems with the system, but for me, overall, the system was an improvement to my quality of life, because it meant I could earn gear just doing the things I wanted with a boost during certain days of the week.

 

During 5.x, a new tier of augments was introduced using materials exclusive to MM ops and ranked pvp, which meant that my characters were no longer competitive in PVP. Then, two completely new tiers of gear were introduced, and centered around a single area with two world bosses that we all knew would become obsolete come 6.0. This again reduced my quality of life in game, for the same reason.

 

On the other hand, 6.0 was an overall improvement (except for crafting). Spoils of War system amplified my ability to gear as I progressed doing a wide variety of content I enjoyed and addressed many of the RNG shortcomings associated with Galactic Command. Changes to conquest and Galactic Seasons overall improved the experience as well, though there is certainly room for improvement. The update which introduced the new tier of augments repeats the same mistakes as during 5.x and the new augments, but the stat difference is small enough that I don't feel wholly undergeared in PVP ... or perhaps the pool is just larger with conquest and Seasons that it makes less of a difference. Either way, I feel far more competitive in pvp in 6.x than I did in 5.x.

 

7.0 promises to change the gearing system yet again ... how much, we don't know, but the whole nature of tacticals and Mr. Schmidt's discussion of them seems to indicate that the Devs consider tacticals to be a balance failure, and want to make them less relevant to the overall "performance" of a character. Set bonuses will be obsolete by the time we reach level 80, if they even work at all from 75-79, which if previous expansions are any indication will not take very long. 7.0 is demonstrably nerfing all characters ... All characters will have fewer DCDs and mobility skills, and in some cases lose damage abilities outright (Saber Throw for most guardians). There is a vague notion that there's going to be rebalancing: rebalancing of level lock; rebalancing of older operation and flashpoint boss mechanics to account for the evolution of the game from 1.0 to 7.0; rebalancing of pvp to address an amorphous complaint about TTK by nerfing DCDs and mobility skills. We learned that the "Combat Styles" of 7.0, portrayed by the developers during the livestream as a glorified advanced class change system, actually involves ability nerfing and reduction, a limit to 2 permanent choices, and loadouts limited to two with very little details to reassure anyone that there is flexibility in the system. In fact, we're told of:

The reasoning for 2 is that the devs still want players to have alts and value their alts, but also there are technical limitations and too many loadouts would lead to worse in game performance.

"Technical limitations and worse game performance."

 

7.0 represents a demonstrably negative effect on my quality of life based on the information we know at this moment, which admittedly is very little. In my opinion, which I have never portrayed as otherwise, you have to have the ability to change loadouts, which includes those one-of-three choices you will make every 5 levels or so from 15 to 80. It is also my opinion that these loadouts have to be able to be named, since there is apparently so much information being stored in them its a technical limitation to have more than 2, so presumably the UI to browse through them and realize, "This is my pve loadout," or "this is my pvp loadout" is large.

 

3. Your 2 combat style choices are permanent. Once you've picked them, you cannot change them (though again, there might be room to replace one in the future). As a brand new player, you pick one combat style and that is all you get until you complete your third story arc of the base game. After that, you unlock a second combat style to choose from. This is tied to your legacy, so if one character has completed their third arc, any new character will immediately have 2 combat styles. This is to prevent an information overload on new players. Chris said that it is much cleaner for the dev team to have the choices be permanent. Chris also argued that there is a high cognitive cost on players if you switch between many different combat styles (though arguably having to switch to an alt character has an even higher cognitive cost).

 

See this section here? High cognitive cost? How would having four combat styles be any more cognitive cost than having four alts, which is precisely the situation we have now? I think this excuse is a bunch of hogwash.

 

Finally, it is also my opinion that a system which binds loadouts to combat styles, and does not allow you to rapidly switch disciplines, falls short of its potential, and therefore makes my current practice of swapping disciplines no easier. I have an opinion that if the Devs are going to negatively impact my quality of life in 7.0 for other reasons, they ought to do their best to get the keynote system of 7.0 right.

Edited August 20, 2021 by phalczen

[Darth-Obvious]

I don't understand the technical constraint about having multiple loadouts creating game performance issues because there are still only 1-x players in the group/op each playing an adv class at any one time. Chris specifically mentioned data overhead but it's all ones and zeroes that only become consequential when you have to render and animate and calculate outcomes for them... which would be replacing the gear you've just put away and are no longer rendering and animating and calculating for. Perhaps a dev could pipe up and explain more?

 

Whenever you add more slots, tabs, etc, to menus it increases server stress. The data isn't confined to whoever is in your group or vicinity but across the game's entire population. So for example if they add an extra bank tab, that extra tab isn't being added just for you or being processed locally on your computer. All that data is stored and processed server-side so if there are a million people playing the game and you add a new tab to banks, outfits, etc, that means the servers just got a million new tabs a data to process.

 

If that data was stored client-side people would be able to easily hack it thus data like that tends to be stored server side.

 

Saying you don't want new players to be confused by choice so you prevent Jedi choosing lightning at the start is a tad weak as the player establishes their alignment as they go, which opens up their expression of Force power. And even if they are new to the game they can be steeped in the lore of SW moreso than any current player who's already unlocked their Legacy in all the substantive dimensions.

 

This could be a Lucasfilm thing and not a Bioware thing.

 

It's easy to forget sometimes that unlike many other MMOs out there (WoW, FF14, ESO, GW2, etc) the devs/publisher in this case don't own the IP and as such there's always going to have to be certain limitations they have to work within that they might not have any control over. I could see this being such a case, ie a Jedi has to start as a Jedi for newcomers.

 

The whole LS/DS stuff in SWTOR has always been a mess and not made much sense. It doesn't really seem to be there for any other reason than because it's an expectation or legacy feature of KOTOR. Half the classes don't even use the force and all 4 of the tech classes operate in more of a grey area so labeling or defining it all, especially for them, as LS/DS doesn't make much sense when you factor how many choices in the game are a matter or perspective or open to interpretation. Labeling them as basically "Good/Evil" or "Right/Wrong" kind of robs a lot of that away. It's not like you can fully turn off the indicators either. While you can remove the indicators from the dialogue wheel you can't remove the half screen-filling UI indication that lets you know what choice you made.

 

There's also the issue that certain story beats and choices, most notably for the Jedi, were written in such a way that a number of DS choices are completely out of character or make no sense for your character to chose in that situation. I remember years ago someone on the forums pointing out how ridiculous the Consular story comes across if you go full DS because you make all these choices that can result in lots of deaths and the way the Jedi Council punishes or reprimands you for those actions is by giving you a promotion? Multiple times?

 

The reality of the situation of course being that the arc of the Consular story was written in a way that requires the Consular to stay in the Jedi Order and get promoted in order to progress the story but if that's the case why write the DS choices as a murder spree instead of something more deceptive or corrupt or clever that you're doing that the Council isn't perhaps aware of? Thus not making the idea of you constantly getting promoted seem so ridiculous.

 

I was listening to a podcast where one of the people on it was playing through the Mass Effect games for the first time and they pointed out that how the Bioware style of writing doesn't so much boil down to the good or bad choice you can make in a situation (the way most people think) but it's more so the morally right thing to do vs the absolute worst thing you can do in the situation.

[Tsillah]

Chris said that they can't share details yet but there will be new gearing, multiple tiers of gear, new set bonuses etc.

 

Loadouts and combat styles are different things, though we are still waiting on clarification for exactly how we choose our loadouts - whether it is one per combat style or if we can put both in one. Combat styles are for all intents and purposes advanced classes. Marauder, sorcerer, sage, operative, gunslinger, guardian - we call these advanced classes on live, but they will be known as combat styles next expansion.

 

This means that if you choose guardian as your first combat style, you gain access to the defense, focus and vigilance disciplines because those disciplines are part of the guardian advanced class/combat style.

You then pick a second combat style which might be sage - in which case when you swap from guardian to sage (which you can do at will outside of phases for no cost), you get access to all 3 sage disciplines. The hope is that you can then pick and choose which 2 disciplines out of those 6 overall (across sage and guardian) you want to be your 2 loadouts. Theoretically you could at the click of a button swap from a tank guardian to a sage healer and all your abilities, gear, tacticals and outfit would instantly change to how you set them up.

 

Essentially you get to double the amount of disciplines you have access to, potentially picking a combat style that has access to a tank discipline and another combat style that has access to a healing disicpline (like sage and guardian).

 

Sure, that much is clear to me, but I also wonder if you can use loadouts for a healer and dps of the same combat style, but that remains to be seen then.

[Zorii_Bliss]

Whenever you add more slots, tabs, etc, to menus it increases server stress. The data isn't confined to whoever is in your group or vicinity but across the game's entire population. So for example if they add an extra bank tab, that extra tab isn't being added just for you or being processed locally on your computer. All that data is stored and processed server-side so if there are a million people playing the game and you add a new tab to banks, outfits, etc, that means the servers just got a million new tabs a data to process.

 

If that data was stored client-side people would be able to easily hack it thus data like that tends to be stored server side.

 

 

 

Thanks, I understand that more data will be stored per toon/player thus inflating player databases but surely it's only a compute burden if it's called or written, which only happens if it's being used instead of something else being called or written and once it comes to rendering and manipulating that in the player UI isn't that a client-side compute issue rendered by the local cpu/gpu? The data being sent from the server refers to game assets on the local machine so being told to draw one bunch of items in a vault or outfit or loadout tab or on a toon skeleton is a string of variables that correspond to assets that are sourced locally right?

It's not like they're trying to deliver the existing game in its entirety and then layering something new on top like a persistent permanent AOE running across the gameworld is it?

 

Aren't loadouts just a dataset describing alternate skins to decorate an otherwise locally rendered set of objects; a local job already being done for our existing equipped/outfitted toons?

 

You'll have to excuse my layman's unsympathetic impression of what's being done here.

[Darth-Obvious]

Thanks, I understand that more data will be stored per toon/player thus inflating player databases but surely it's only a compute burden if it's called or written, which only happens if it's being used instead of something else being called or written and once it comes to rendering and manipulating that in the player UI isn't that a client-side compute issue rendered by the local cpu/gpu? The data being sent from the server refers to game assets on the local machine so being told to draw one bunch of items in a vault or outfit or loadout tab or on a toon skeleton is a string of variables that correspond to assets that are sourced locally right?

It's not like they're trying to deliver the existing game in its entirety and then layering something new on top like a persistent permanent AOE running across the gameworld is it?

 

Aren't loadouts just a dataset describing alternate skins to decorate an otherwise locally rendered set of objects; a local job already being done for our existing equipped/outfitted toons?

 

You'll have to excuse my layman's unsympathetic impression of what's being done here.

 

The server data is being accessed in its entirety at all times. If they add a new bank tab its not something that's just being processed or adding to the server load whenever a player uses it but instead at all times. Same goes for outfit tabs, same goes for your active number missions, etc.

 

Go into your Legacy tab and go to Family Tree and you'll be able to see all your alts there rendered in 3D. That data is just there being accessed at all times basically.

[Zorii_Bliss]

The server data is being accessed in its entirety at all times. If they add a new bank tab its not something that's just being processed or adding to the server load whenever a player uses it but instead at all times. Same goes for outfit tabs, same goes for your active number missions, etc.

 

Go into your Legacy tab and go to Family Tree and you'll be able to see all your alts there rendered in 3D. That data is just there being accessed at all times basically.

 

Thanks, iIf that's the case then someone seriously screwed up on their design of the engine or the game. Why would you ever have generally static or infrequently used data being continually processed by server or client #epicfail.

Relational databases were conceived of to address this issue decades ago.

[Darth-Obvious]

Thanks, iIf that's the case then someone seriously screwed up on their design of the engine or the game. Why would you ever have generally static or infrequently used data being continually processed by server or client #epicfail.

Relational databases were conceived of to address this issue decades ago.

 

SWTOR's engine has always been a mess and it's difficult for them to within due to the way the engine was made or as a result of decisions they made like 15 years ago that they're still locked into.

 

One example that's fairly well known at this point is that the game can't handle combat instances with more than 16 players. That's why all instanced group content that involves combat is limited to 16 players.

[Ardrossan]

The reality of the situation of course being that the arc of the Consular story was written in a way that requires the Consular to stay in the Jedi Order and get promoted in order to progress the story but if that's the case why write the DS choices as a murder spree instead of something more deceptive or corrupt or clever that you're doing that the Council isn't perhaps aware of? Thus not making the idea of you constantly getting promoted seem so ridiculous.

 

They could have fixed this by including a new scene right after you get told your assignment on Coruscant. Jaeric Kaedan is there to brief you instead of Syo, and he goes off-script to inform the PC that tensions with the Jedi and Republic are thin right now and having crazy, violent Jedi running around is bad optics. So Kaedan gives the PC secret orders: heal the Jedi Masters if you can but if any of them do anything that would publicly embarrass the Order, you have permission to execute them instead. This seems in keeping with Kaedan's personality.

 

That way, the DS choice would actually make sense instead of the PC just being a psycho and killing them when for no reason, and the Council shrugging like "hopefully they won't kill the next one!" Sadly, nothing would easily fix the Chapter 1 ending where the DS option is just unsalvageably stupid. Maybe changing it completely so that after you beat Morhage, he offers to be your servant a la Bengal Morr in the JK story, and he may show up later to help you take down The First Son on Corellia.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Ardrossan