New information about combat styles in 7.0

[TrixxieTriss]

If a mission gives my companion 280 influence points I get 330 with the 9 2.00% mods. missions that give 57 give me 67 and so forth.

 

It would be less time consuming if you just crafted your own dark projects and purchased the instant lvl 50 companion booster from the vendor

[merovejec]

2. What is happening to the Onslaught sets and Tacticals? Will we be able to buy them from a vendor to complete the associated achievements?

 

This is a very good question. Getting that gear is a nightmare for achievement hunters. You can either spam Dxun on NiM or farm fragments for Kai, but thats like a chance of 1 in a million to get what you need. We cant really complain now as there are people who have 100% gear achievements already, but I wonder what they will do here.

[Eli_Porter]

So the system looks solid so far, 2 AC limit kinda hurts but if it's a technical limitation that's ok. I'd rather they focus on the class reworks as judging by the scrolls of feedback it would take more time to fine-tune than they'd initially expected.

[Tsillah]

If a mission gives my companion 280 influence points I get 330 with the 9 2.00% mods. missions that give 57 give me 67 and so forth.

At first I still was thinking what the heck are you talking about but then it dawned on me what you meant. I had no idea because I buy the compendiums from the fleet vendor that make companions influence rating 50 instantly, that's why.

 

So yeah, this is completely out of my scope, but thanks for explaining what you meant.

[LordCamTheGreat]

So the system looks solid so far, 2 AC limit kinda hurts but if it's a technical limitation that's ok. I'd rather they focus on the class reworks as judging by the scrolls of feedback it would take more time to fine-tune than they'd initially expected.

 

I'd much rather the devs get 2 combat styles working than try and do more and end up breaking the game. It sounds like the system is being built in an expandable way, and Chris said that the devs are open to increasing the amount available in the future. It's not a definite thing, but is a possibility.

 

There is still so much to go through on the PTS in terms of class reworks, we've only just finished the first two of eight combat styles and even that was just a high-level look. Unless I'm misinterpreting what was said in the interview, there is still a lot we haven't seen yet in terms of what our abilities will look like (Chris said players are still comparing abilities to what they are on live, while in 7.0 things will be very different) and there are still those mysterious new abilities that guardian and sentinel get which aren't discipline specific. Redefining a baseline for all classes is a pretty big task, but if they get it right, it means that all classes should start on a similar level rather than the leapfrogging we've had in the past.

 

It feels like the PTS is going to get very busy in the next few months!

[Sareeph]

I don't think combat styles will have cartel market unlocks, but will gradually over time increase in number as the devs not only improve their database systems, but also add new combat styles. I might be wrong and we'll see a token the same price as a boosted character token that unlocks another combat style slot.

I'm not sure about being able to pay cartel coins to respec because Chris seemed pretty clear that the devs want them to be permanent because it's cleaner on their backend systems to keep them permanent.

 

Now for loadouts however, I absolutely think there will be cartel market unlocks because it is a quality of life thing, the same way as we can buy more quickbar slots with cartel coins. 4-5 loadouts should be enough for most players if we only have 2 combat styles. 4-5 is a lot better than the 2 we originally thought we would get, but thankfully there was some clarification on that point.

 

If they do add new styles, I can see them adding something to the Cartel Market. If styles are permanent, we will have to be rolling new toons to access those new styles unless we leave toons lying around with only one style chosen for just such an event.

[ashelois]

There really do need to be more rewards for completing bonus objectives. On my newest guardian, I've been doing all the exploration missions and most of the bonus missions too just for completionist sake. While doing them, it was incredibly obvious how much of a waste of time they are for anyone who wants to get an actual reward out of them apart from just turning in a mission. If bonus missions gave tech frags (most bonus missions being kill things), I bet a tonne more players would actually want to do them rather than skipping. All the rewards in flashpoints are found within the bosses, the stuff inbetween offers nothing for players. But, if you reward players too much for killing the mobs, they'll just grind those and ignore the bosses. It's a tricky situation.

 

This. Tech fragments drop from a lot of content but once you have multiple 75s it gets very frustrating when certain content doesn't give anythin but xp. Renown is neat but I would love it if heroics and large conquest objectives even just gave 2 fragments.

 

Nickel and dime ye to riches.

[LordCamTheGreat]

If they do add new styles, I can see them adding something to the Cartel Market. If styles are permanent, we will have to be rolling new toons to access those new styles unless we leave toons lying around with only one style chosen for just such an event.

 

This is one of the main instances where I could see the devs offering a free combat style respec if new combat styles are added due to this quote from the separating story from gameplay post:

 

"If you have an existing character when Legacy of the Sith launches, when you log into the game, you will be able to choose a Combat Style immediately. You can choose a Combat Style similar to your previous Advanced Class or choose something new. The choice is yours!"

 

This suggests that when 7.0 launches, our existing characters will start without a combat style and will be able to choose one as if it were a new character. So if I logged into my sniper, I would be able to choose sniper because that's what I already had, or something different. The past few expansions we have been given free character boost tokens and those things cost some 2000 cartel coins normally which is also why I think we'd get a free respec.

 

 

If there isn't a free respec, I would fully expect to see something appear on the cartel market. We likely won't see a new combat style for at least a year imo, which gives enough time for the devs to mull it over, listen to feedback, do some systems updates and increase the amount of combat styles we have.

Edited August 22, 2021 by LordCamTheGreat

[ashelois]

It would be less time consuming if you just crafted your own dark projects and purchased the instant lvl 50 companion booster from the vendor

 

I appreciate the advice but unfortunately that takes piles of money. this just takes stuff I am doin anyway. although I AM lookin into that as DPs SELL for said piles of money.

 

For my playstyle I would likely be better off craftin DPs and sellin them:)

 

But this also is useful for gettin multiple characters up based on random drops and missions. even if I just close the 6-8 missions I have waitin when I log in it makes a difference. And if they 'love' or favourite delicacies/maintenance it IS super fast.

 

I normally just do 10+ gift givin while watchin SVU or Elementary.

Edited August 22, 2021 by ashelois
my tone:)

[ashelois]

At first I still was thinking what the heck are you talking about but then it dawned on me what you meant. I had no idea because I buy the compendiums from the fleet vendor that make companions influence rating 50 instantly, that's why.

 

So yeah, this is completely out of my scope, but thanks for explaining what you meant.

 

Yer welcome. And compendiums are totally valid if you have the funds. It's so nice just having 'one' 50 so it's a great option if you get a smokin deal on dark projects or can craft em:)

 

I know some did the same thing with the +critical craftin mods but although the othe ones work... the +criticals benefit seems a lot smaller than it looks.

 

[TrixxieTriss]

I appreciate the advice but unfortunately that takes piles of money. this just takes stuff I am doin anyway. although I AM lookin into that as DPs SELL for said piles of money.

 

For my playstyle I would likely be better off craftin DPs and sellin them:)

 

But this also is useful for gettin multiple characters up based on random drops and missions. even if I just close the 6-8 missions I have waitin when I log in it makes a difference. And if they 'love' or favourite delicacies/maintenance it IS super fast.

 

I normally just do 10+ gift givin while watchin SVU or Elementary.

 

You’d be better off spending that extra time to farm the mats you need. You’ll make many more credits farming in free time than trying to “save credits” by giving gifts to companions. You can then sell those gifts on the GTN as well.

 

When you get around to crafting DP’s, try and use lvl 50 companions and guild crafting bonuses where possible and you’ll often crit on them as well as the pre-curser mats needed to make them.

Then the costs drop significantly and you’ll end up with more DP’s than you can sell. What I mean by “more than you can sell” is you don’t want to flood the market with them. It’s best to only sell 1-4 at a time and that keeps market price up. That way you’ll always have stock and a good income to pay to convert 4 of them for the max lvl comp tokens.

If you also make them for Conquest points, you’ll have more than enough to use and sell without losing any credits.

 

I’ve a 1000 sitting in my crafting storage cause 90% of my comps are at max lvl and I can’t sell them fast enough

Now that I’ve got so many, I’ve actually stopped making them cause I can make similar credits off the mats and I don’t have to spend time crafting to make credits.

[mike_carton]

I just don't know about this system anymore. I honestly can't see myself using this system if a loadout is permanently linked to a combat style. Instead of allowing me to conveniently swap between heal/dps disciplines, or tank/dps disciplines, it seems like I'll be locked to a permanent loadout and be forced to swap to a different advanced class.

 

Based both on the original Livestrean and the excellent OP of this thread ("A loadout will save your current gear setup, outfit, ability positions and hotkeys."), it looks like the Loadouts include and are essentially tied to the Discipline in effect when the Loadout is saved, not to the Combat Style (= Advanced Class.)

 

I certainly would like for them to be tied to Disciplines; otherwise, I can't see them being useful.

[mike_carton]

I don't get what "cognitive cost" has to do with them limiting our choice. People play to their individual "cognitive capacity" and there are many players who have mastered many/all of the advanced classes and certainly have a decent, playable grasp of several if they've been with SWTOR for many if not all these past years.

 

I expect they'll sell unlocks for additional Combat Styles and/or Loadouts as Cartel Market items.

[TrixxieTriss]

I expect they'll sell unlocks for additional Combat Styles and/or Loadouts as Cartel Market items.

 

It’s nearly a given that they will monetise this

[CarrionKitten]

So if having multiple combat styles is limited to subscribers only, what happens if you pick a second style while subscribed and then later switch to preferred player status? Do you lose access to the second style and get locked into your primary style, or do you keep the ability to use the second style for characters that already have it and simply lose the ability to give new characters a second style?

[Tsillah]

Yer welcome. And compendiums are totally valid if you have the funds. It's so nice just having 'one' 50 so it's a great option if you get a smokin deal on dark projects or can craft em:)

 

I know some did the same thing with the +critical craftin mods but although the othe ones work... the +criticals benefit seems a lot smaller than it looks.

 

Yeah 4.25 Million credits (+3 dark projects) isn't a big deal for me. It seems to me that it would cost less than getting those amplifiers cost you, but I do appreciate that you play a certain way and that some things do or do not fit within that.

 

My crafters have 9 companions at rank 50 (8 to do crafting and 1 to bring along) and the others have 4-5. For me selling a black dye for something like 200M credits by itself was enough to buy dozens of compendiums. Crafting the dark projects is a little bit time intensive but I still have like 30+ sitting in my inventory and no I don't craft 24/7. What surprises me though is that the dark projects cost a lot less than the war supplies it takes to craft them added together.

 

So not trying to convince you or anything, but perhaps food for thought.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Based both on the original Livestrean and the excellent OP of this thread ("A loadout will save your current gear setup, outfit, ability positions and hotkeys."), it looks like the Loadouts include and are essentially tied to the Discipline in effect when the Loadout is saved, not to the Combat Style (= Advanced Class.)

 

I certainly would like for them to be tied to Disciplines; otherwise, I can't see them being useful.

 

Originally it was unclear because we assumed that we had 2 loadout slots and the examples Chris used involved using loadouts to swap between combat styles and didn't mention disciplines. However, the interviewers received clarification the next day stating that we'll have maybe 4-5 loadouts and can have multiple loadouts within one combat style, so it does seem like they are tied to disciplines which is much better news.

[LordCamTheGreat]

So if having multiple combat styles is limited to subscribers only, what happens if you pick a second style while subscribed and then later switch to preferred player status? Do you lose access to the second style and get locked into your primary style, or do you keep the ability to use the second style for characters that already have it and simply lose the ability to give new characters a second style?

 

The reason I put subscribers in the notes is because that's what Chris said in the interview. Max and Sema's (the interviewers) pdf notes state that "Design direction right now is to have 2 permanent choices for combat styles" (page 2 of the pdf). Notice no mention of subscribers here.

 

If it is in fact limited to subscribers only, I imagine it will work similarly to server character slots, where if you move from subscriber status to preferred, you have to activate individual characters in order to play them. In this case, you'd have to choose between your 2 combat styles and the other would become inactive until you subscribe again.

 

Would be nice to receive clarification on this but it's possible the devs are still figuring out the exact amount of slots for f2p, preferred and subscribers internally. Hopefully everyone gets access to 2 because Chris also spoke about the new player experience and how new players receive their second combat style after act 3. I don't know about you but I think most new players won't subscribe til after the main story has been completed - so why mention that new players can get their second combat style if they have to subscribe?

 

 

I realise it's not a definite answer but that's all the info we have about this currently and my reasoning behind it.

[Sareeph]

Yeah 4.25 Million credits (+3 dark projects) isn't a big deal for me. It seems to me that it would cost less than getting those amplifiers cost you, but I do appreciate that you play a certain way and that some things do or do not fit within that..

 

Keep in mind that amp prices increase according to the level of the item they are on. Low level armorings are cheap to make and reroll. You are paying way more for that comp item.

[aeterno]

The limit to 2 permanent combat styles is frankly perplexing.

 

The flexibility of freedom of choice was arguably what held the entire proposition up in the first place. I'm doing daily on this toon today, I'm picking a combat style well suited to that. I'm doing FP's, they need a tank, I'm picking that. Later I'm healing an ops run.

 

Now it's a one-time choice of two?

 

So basically this expansion's big thing is a "reroll class" token for my existing toons...

 

I mean the thing was wearing thin as a centerpiece feature as is, but with this information, outside of pure DPS classes now getting a second chance to do the smart thing and become a dwh/dwt, what is the actual point of this?

 

 

I get it they want to still incentivize alting, but they already have lockouts for that. I don't do 8 alts cos I like 8 playstyles, I do it to run 8 GF dailies for the mad fragzzzz

 

The core system as sold would indeed contribute to people alting less, but, here's the crucial bit, only for "completionists" that want every AC covered, for whatever reason. I'm one of those. I level every AC on both factions to lvl cap and half I then don't use. But if smashmonkeys make a comeback in PvP next week's patch, I'm ready baby, party like it's 2012.

 

But surely this had to have been predicted at the early design phase.

 

To cognitively demanding otherwise? If you're worried about newbie overload gate it to max level.

 

Honestly, it feels like someone in upper management said "right, we're doing this because it's the least amount of work for a "flagship feature"" and the devs are now trying to make it happen without really making it happen lol.

Edited August 22, 2021 by aeterno

[Eli_Porter]

The limit to 2 permanent combat styles is frankly perplexing.

 

The flexibility of freedom of choice was arguably what held the entire proposition up in the first place. I'm doing daily on this toon today, I'm picking a combat style well suited to that. I'm doing FP's, they need a tank, I'm picking that. Later I'm healing an ops run.

 

Now it's a one-time choice of two?

 

So basically this expansion's big thing is a "reroll class" token for my existing toons...

A one time choice of two Combat Styles (AKA Advanced Class) means you can do all 3 roles on the same character, you will also have 3 loadouts at the very least to accommodate that, 4-5 loadouts being likely.

 

So if you currently have a Juggernaut swapping between Tank and DPS, you will be able to also swap it to a Sorcerer for Heals with the click of a button. In addition you will be able to swap to a ranged DPS, however if you choose the Sorcerer style you won't also be able to get an Assassin or Marauder style on that character.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Eli_Porter

[LordCamTheGreat]

Going to 3 combat styles would be the sweet spot imo and hopefully that does happen in the future because otherwise full damage combat styles are likely going to fall in popularity. It makes a lot more sense to pick a combat style with access to a tank spec and one that has access to a heal spec than either of those and a full damage combat style. That being said, there will still be a lot of players who won't want to play damage or heal or tank regardless of whether they have the option to or not, and other players will just log onto an alt to fill the role they don't have.

[Eli_Porter]

What I'm still concerned about is the combat style switching. If it's just "no switching in phase" then what happens in open world? Could one stealth out and switch classes? This would be a big deal against World Bosses and in open world PvP, and if DCD timers are reset and there's no cooldown on swapping, then one could have infinite DCD's just by stealthing out and swapping over and over again. Edited August 23, 2021 by Eli_Porter

[Tsillah]

Keep in mind that amp prices increase according to the level of the item they are on. Low level armorings are cheap to make and reroll. You are paying way more for that comp item.

Well, your maths may be off on this. Aside from the fact that it doesn't poke a whole in my finances because of mass inflation and those prices staying stable, you want to calculate everything into it.

 

I suppose that with low level armorings you can make it cheaper but there is also the other costs. Running missions cost money as well and if you don't have the appropriate amplifiers for those you need to calculate the cost for the mats you didn't get. Also because of not being rank 50 from the start, because the higher the influence the better the crafting results are. But there's another cost to it that you forget: time.

 

Generally you can buy off costs of certain things in MMOs with time. You could go out to gather mats yourself for example or buy them off the GTN. The GTN cost is higher but it costs less time, etc.

 

I do that with the compendium, making the companions I use instantly influence 50. It saves me time and increases the results I get with missions instantly and as such I can focus on other things, like crafting. So from that pov, you may spent less of the credits you have but you make fewer credits in the crafting results you get running misssion and you pay with another resource namely time. So from where I'm sitting you're spending more precious resources than I am.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Tsillah

[Eli_Porter]

Going to 3 combat styles would be the sweet spot imo and hopefully that does happen in the future because otherwise full damage combat styles are likely going to fall in popularity. It makes a lot more sense to pick a combat style with access to a tank spec and one that has access to a heal spec than either of those and a full damage combat style. That being said, there will still be a lot of players who won't want to play damage or heal or tank regardless of whether they have the option to or not, and other players will just log onto an alt to fill the role they don't have.

 

I'm more worried about a scenario where a Sniper picks Gunslinger as a second Combat Style which effectively bricks the character.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Eli_Porter