The small handful of daily complainers do not speak for the rest of us, BioWare

[Raansu]

Thats such a poor arguement. The same system is in effect for flashpoints and its not like its only hammer station all day.

 

Uh....it kinda is lmao.

[riinarah]

Nope. I am making a topic to let BioWare know that they're doing lots of good things. I make positive topics. Not just topics to complain about how BioWare won't nerf every class but mine. I am setting a good example.

 

Are you looking for a job or something ?

 

Stop this unnecessary nuthugging.

[septru]

Are you looking for a job or something ?

 

Stop this unnecessary nuthugging.

 

I believe it's called **** riding.

[krarevin]

No point in lying to BioWare. They have all of the data. They can easily see that there are more people playing PVP than ever before. None of you will ever successfully gaslight the developers and you should stop wasting your time.

 

If this is true then why do I always get thrown into 4v4? I've pretty much given up on PvP because it is garbage, and the fact that whenever I queue I get thrown into 4v4 suggests to me not many people are queuing. But hey, if y'all are having fun and people are actually playing as you claim, party on. For me it's total garbage and many of the complaints you see on the forum hold true.

[Raansu]

If this is true then why do I always get thrown into 4v4? I've pretty much given up on PvP because it is garbage, and the fact that whenever I queue I get thrown into 4v4 suggests to me not many people are queuing. But hey, if y'all are having fun and people are actually playing as you claim, party on. For me it's total garbage and many of the complaints you see on the forum hold true.

 

The uptick BW is referring to is cap level pvp. Lowbie pvp has been dead for years because there's no real reason to queue for it. If you're getting nothing but arenas at cap level then I dunno what to tell ya. I rarely get arenas in regs unless I'm playing in the middle of the night.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Raansu

[riinarah]

I believe it's called **** riding.

 

Yes that seems more appropriate.

[MadCuzBad]

i hate to break it to you but your ratio is only accurate on the forums. people come here in droves to complain about the game, not to give it props if they like it. your observation of a majority of people on the forums (specifically) complaining about the game is in no way, shape, or form indicative of people complaining about it being the overall majority. so... speaking of being completely wrong.

 

I have some number for you. How about this. A game that at one time had 188 US servers alone now has a total of 5 servers. Out of the 5 servers only DM and SF has a healthy population. I'm pretty sure the people who are un happy with this game is much larger than you might want to admit to.

 

The people have already spoken. Here is your 5 servers which more than half of them are dead. They could merge NA in 1 and EU in 1 and still not have 2 full servers.

 

Try to keep it real. White knights are almost always wrong.

[Raansu]

I have some number for you. How about this. A game that at one time had 188 US servers alone now has a total of 5 servers. Out of the 5 servers only DM and SF has a healthy population. I'm pretty sure the people who are un happy with this game is much larger than you might want to admit to.

 

The people have already spoken. Here is your 5 servers which more than half of them are dead. They could merge NA in 1 and EU in 1 and still not have 2 full servers.

 

Try to keep it real. White knights are almost always wrong.

 

Lets be honest here, at launch they panicked and should have NEVER opened that many servers. 90% of those servers were empty.

[MadCuzBad]

Lets be honest here, at launch they panicked and should have NEVER opened that many servers. 90% of those servers were empty.

 

This game exists only for CC. The OP is out of touch. They have not given a crap about the games core since 4.0 ended. This games existence lives and breathes by the cartel coins. As far as the game itself they could not care less about it. PVP or PVE. They simply don't care. They haven't since 4.0.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the truth hurts sometimes. And that's just the truth.

[Ibokagain]

I'll say it again, a handful of daily complainers do not represent hundreds of thousands of people. My points were so good that you couldn't actually offer a counter-argument against them.

 

you actually think this game has over 100k subbed lol.

[Ibokagain]

This game exists only for CC. The OP is out of touch. They have not given a crap about the games core since 4.0 ended. This games existence lives and breathes by the cartel coins. As far as the game itself they could not care less about it. PVP or PVE. They simply don't care. They haven't since 4.0.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the truth hurts sometimes. And that's just the truth.

 

+1000 to this, I couldn't of said it any better. The game has been bad since after 4.0.

[Exly]

No point in lying to BioWare. They have all of the data. They can easily see that there are more people playing PVP than ever before. None of you will ever successfully gaslight the developers and you should stop wasting your time.

 

Then there data shows that I queue less because of the last set of changes that they made, and I still leave arenas if one pops for me when I do queue.

 

Punishing me for leaving undesirable warzones, and trying to relegate me and others on my team to content status is off putting, and makes pvp something that I only do to complete a daily or weekly PO.

 

The good news is that I am finishing the first season this week, and don't plan on queueing again until next season, or until they remove the deserter lockout and give some credit towards the daily and weekly objectives to members of the losing team.

[Severith]

Then there data shows that I queue less because of the last set of changes that they made, and I still leave arenas if one pops for me when I do queue.

 

Punishing me for leaving undesirable warzones, and trying to relegate me and others on my team to content status is off putting, and makes pvp something that I only do to complete a daily or weekly PO.

 

The good news is that I am finishing the first season this week, and don't plan on queueing again until next season, or until they remove the deserter lockout and give some credit towards the daily and weekly objectives to members of the losing team.

 

In other words, you don't enjoy the concept of pvping for the fun of pvping. So why do we need to know your opinions, exactly? You were just here for Galactic Seasons.

[Exly]

In other words, you don't enjoy the concept of pvping for the fun of pvping. So why do we need to know your opinions, exactly? You were just here for Galactic Seasons.

 

Actually, I do enjoy pvp, but I also enjoy other parts of the game, and choose to do those that are the more rewarding and less punishing. By punishing me for not liking the 4v4 format, and not recognizing my play by advancing progress towards daily and weekly missions, the devs have made pvp something that I don't participate in.

 

The reason that I responded in this thread was to counter the argument that things have gotten better since lockouts and stingy daily and weekly progression rules were implemented. I do not agree that this is true, and I wanted the devs to know that it is not just a matter of people complaining that they should think about, but that they should also consider the number of people who don't complain, and simply stopped pvping as a result of their actions.

[Severith]

Actually, I do enjoy pvp, but I also enjoy other parts of the game, and choose to do those that are the more rewarding and less punishing. By punishing me for not liking the 4v4 format, and not recognizing my play by advancing progress towards daily and weekly missions, the devs have made pvp something that I don't participate in.

 

The reason that I responded in this thread was to counter the argument that things have gotten better since lockouts and stingy daily and weekly progression rules were implemented. I do not agree that this is true, and I wanted the devs to know that it is not just a matter of people complaining that they should think about, but that they should also consider the number of people who don't complain, and simply stopped pvping as a result of their actions.

 

Anyone who operates in the real world knows that it is far more likely that negative experiences are shared more often than positive. The vast majority of people benefiting from the win requirements, and the lockouts don't even realize they're benefiting from them, or their impact. They're just having better overall gaming experiences.

 

You might disagree, subjectively, but for better or for worse Bioware makes changes based on analytics. They had the data before the changes, and they didn't like what they were seeing. From my own perspective, almost every single huttball match ended at 6-0 before the changes, and now they're mostly won by a couple of points.

 

I don't see any argument being countered here. I don't see any new ideas, I don't see any revelations that can actually change anyone's mind. People who love pvp will get their dailies and weeklies done most of the time, just by doing what they like, organically. None of these changes are a problem in that regard, so why are they a problem for you?

[Exly]

I don't see any argument being countered here. I don't see any new ideas, I don't see any revelations that can actually change anyone's mind. People who love pvp will get their dailies and weeklies done most of the time, just by doing what they like, organically. None of these changes are a problem in that regard, so why are they a problem for you?

 

I'm not looking to argue or change minds. I have already stated what I don't like, and why I don't like things. I enjoy pvp, but not any more than I enjoy other aspects of the game. Lockout penalties for leaving arenas when I get a pop, and the lack of progression for dailies and weeklies are things that I don't like, and so I play other parts of the game. If those two things were changed, then I would pvp more often.

 

In regards to why devs are motivated to to what they do, I don't buy the idea that they do everything based soley on data and metrics. Before they made the changes there were complaints for years about people deserting matches, and in the past, pvp required players to win their matches to advance daily and weekly missions. So why did they make changes? Maybe it had something to do with them being tired of hearing those complaints, and had nothing to do with data and metrics. They don't share there data, or explain their decisions, so we will probably never know, but I personally think that it is just as likely that whoever made the decision did it because they shared beliefs with those that were complaining, and felt justified because of those complaints.

 

In either case, if you love pvp, then I suspect that you would probably love it even if the removed the lockouts and gave credit to people for matches played while pvping just like they do with GSF, and used to do with pvp. If not, then, I guess you might better understand why I don't like the current state of things.

 

I am not wanting radical changes to pvp. I don't want changes that would reduce how much you love it. I just don't like to be penalized for not liking arenas, or the requirements in place for completing daily and weekly missions.

 

Do you understand now?

[Severith]

I'm not looking to argue or change minds. I have already stated what I don't like, and why I don't like things. I enjoy pvp, but not any more than I enjoy other aspects of the game. Lockout penalties for leaving arenas when I get a pop, and the lack of progression for dailies and weeklies are things that I don't like, and so I play other parts of the game. If those two things were changed, then I would pvp more often.

 

In regards to why devs are motivated to to what they do, I don't buy the idea that they do everything based soley on data and metrics. Before they made the changes there were complaints for years about people deserting matches, and in the past, pvp required players to win their matches to advance daily and weekly missions. So why did they make changes? Maybe it had something to do with them being tired of hearing those complaints, and had nothing to do with data and metrics. They don't share there data, or explain their decisions, so we will probably never know, but I personally think that it is just as likely that whoever made the decision did it because they shared beliefs with those that were complaining, and felt justified because of those complaints.

 

In either case, if you love pvp, then I suspect that you would probably love it even if the removed the lockouts and gave credit to people for matches played while pvping just like they do with GSF, and used to do with pvp. If not, then, I guess you might better understand why I don't like the current state of things.

 

I am not wanting radical changes to pvp. I don't want changes that would reduce how much you love it. I just don't like to be penalized for not liking arenas, or the requirements in place for completing daily and weekly missions.

 

Do you understand now?

 

I don't love pvp. I love good pvp. I hate intentional losers.

 

Do you understand now?

[CheesyEZ]

I don't love pvp. I love good pvp. I hate intentional losers.

 

Do you understand now?

 

wait. wut? how does wanting partial completion of a quest from a loss mean he's intentionally losing?

 

are you really trying to say that he, all, or even most of the players show up and afk to get their daily/weekly done? that's a myth, dude. some ppl did that. I guarantee you that A LOT MORE ppl ignore objectives and just DM than ever afk'd to complete quests via losses.

[Exly]

wait. wut? how does wanting partial completion of a quest from a loss mean he's intentionally losing?

 

are you really trying to say that he, all, or even most of the players show up and afk to get their daily/weekly done? that's a myth, dude. some ppl did that. I guarantee you that A LOT MORE ppl ignore objectives and just DM than ever afk'd to complete quests via losses.

 

Exactly. I don't like loosing, and don't go afk. If I did that, then I would just afk arenas instead of leaving when I get a pop. To imply otherwise is insulting.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Exly

[TrixxieTriss]

wait. wut? how does wanting partial completion of a quest from a loss mean he's intentionally losing?

 

are you really trying to say that he, all, or even most of the players show up and afk to get their daily/weekly done? that's a myth, dude. some ppl did that. I guarantee you that A LOT MORE ppl ignore objectives and just DM than ever afk'd to complete quests via losses.

 

Definitely more people DMing before and now than the handful of people who were afking before the change.

Most people at least gave it a go. I actually see more AFKers now when people see terrible teams because they know they get nothing for trying and they go sit in the corner or purposely help the other team.

[HaoZhao]

Definitely more people DMing before and now than the handful of people who were afking before the change.

Most people at least gave it a go. I actually see more AFKers now when people see terrible teams because they know they get nothing for trying and they go sit in the corner or purposely help the other team.

 

This doesn't even make sense. You are claiming that people are doing nothing because they are getting nothing. If they are getting nothing and they KNOW they are getting nothing, then why are they even in the queue? Who logs into SWTOR for the sole purpose of queueing into WZs and then going AFK? What is even the scheme here?

 

You've got this backwards. Back when people were rewarded for losing, we had all kinds of PVE baddies coming into WZs and going AFK because they were getting prizes for it. Even if they lost every match, they would eventually finish every PVP quest through persistence.

[CheesyEZ]

This doesn't even make sense. You are claiming that people are doing nothing because they are getting nothing. If they are getting nothing and they KNOW they are getting nothing, then why are they even in the queue? Who logs into SWTOR for the sole purpose of queueing into WZs and then going AFK? What is even the scheme here?

 

trixxie overstates things, but I believe what she was implying is that when players see they have no shot at winning, they AFK. she's implying this occurs more often now that losses don't count. I don't see this. players have always AFK'd or stopped trying once they think or realize the match is a lost cause. or just left before the deserter debuff was a thing.

 

none of that has to do with severin's nonsense about players joining queue to intentionally lose. the number of (probable) bots and multiboxers who sat a stealth toon next to a controlled node and AFK'd was always a very low number. In my experience on SF, I could count less than a handful of such toons. and even then, they didn't want to lose, but it's true that they didn't try to win.

 

the wins requirement does successfully address that so called "epidemic" of a handful of multiboxers.

Edited July 16, 2021 by CheesyEZ

[TrixxieTriss]

trixxie overstates things, but I believe what she was implying is that when players see they have no shot at winning, they AFK. she's implying this occurs more often now that losses don't count. I don't see this. players have always AFK'd or stopped trying once they think or realize the match is a lost cause. or just left before the deserter debuff was a thing.

 

none of that has to do with severin's nonsense about players joining queue to intentionally lose. the number of (probable) bots and multiboxers who sat a stealth toon next to a controlled node and AFK'd was always a very low number. In my experience on SF, I could count less than a handful of such toons. and even then, they didn't want to lose, but it's true that they didn't try to win.

 

the wins requirement does successfully address that so called "epidemic" of a handful of multiboxers.

 

Trying to type on the phone without my glasses is hard. So you are right, my language was over stating it and I think you summed it up pretty good. Thanks, it saves me trying to proof read it and edit it on 3 inch screen.

 

Basically with the deserter lockout, I see more people afk now instead of leaving as much. But the results are the same. The lock out hasn’t really had an impact on afkers or rage quitters. Now they just afk earlier and go get a drink while the timer runs down cause it’s faster than the lock out.

Edited July 16, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Severith]

wait. wut? how does wanting partial completion of a quest from a loss mean he's intentionally losing?

 

are you really trying to say that he, all, or even most of the players show up and afk to get their daily/weekly done? that's a myth, dude. some ppl did that. I guarantee you that A LOT MORE ppl ignore objectives and just DM than ever afk'd to complete quests via losses.

 

When did I say he, as an individual, was intentionally losing?

 

One or two players intentionally throwing to get games over more quickly is all it takes to ruin a pvp match. It doesn't have to be a specific person, it doesn't have to be "most" people. Do you think at least 1 out of 8 people are lazy? Because I do, especially when they play MMOs.

 

I've been watching Summit1G pvp the past few days, the only matches that were lopsided that I've seen him play were Queshball and Vandin. He lost a Novare Coast by 2%. As I type this he's in a Yavin match thats 94/212. If he had been trying SWTOR again before the win requirements and lockouts, almost all of the matches would of been horribly lopsided, and all 12 thousand of his viewers would have noticed how unfun pvp is in those conditions.

[Severith]

Trying to type on the phone without my glasses is hard. So you are right, my language was over stating it and I think you summed it up pretty good. Thanks, it saves me trying to proof read it and edit it on 3 inch screen.

 

Basically with the deserter lockout, I see more people afk now instead of leaving as much. But the results are the same. The lock out hasn’t really had an impact on afkers or rage quitters. Now they just afk earlier and go get a drink while the timer runs down cause it’s faster than the lock out.

 

If you're claiming that's happening more, with the win-requirements and lockouts, then it should be easy to record them, right? Most video cards these days have video recording built in, and there's plenty of free versions of video recording software. So how about you pvp for a couple of hours, and video document all the afkers and link your video here.

 

You're the one claiming to see them, right?