Galactic Seasons + PvP = A Bad Combo

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

And it has been explained, with maths, more than once that no, one does not have to do PVP or GSF to reach level 100, and yet people keep pushing this narrative because... I do not know why. Maybe because it makes them feel justified in putting all this energy into hating it.

 

People keep pushing it because not everybody has the same amount of time to play. That math assumes you're available for 100% of the daily & weekly objectives. Since that's not going to be the case for everybody, that math doesn't apply to everybody. When I log in on one of the few days I have to play a week, and both of my daily POs are PVP related, or I get one PVP related one and it rerolls to the other (this happened to me both days over the weekend), that's definitely going to hamper my ability to get higher up in the season.

 

At this stage I'm not worried about it because I've given up on getting the major reward I wanted from the higher tiers, trying to get it would require far too much effort and time from me compared to what I can reasonably give. For somebody that still actually wants to try, though, but has limited days to play, situations like what happened to me on Saturday and Sunday are a problem.

 

People have their own experiences and are allowed to criticize this system based on those experiences. If you have time to play every day and this doesn't affect you, awesome, I'm happy for you. That doesn't invalidate other people's experiences or bar them from criticizing the system just because you like it, nor does it mean they're just hating it to hate it. I wanted this system to do well, because it's something that could have encouraged me to play more often with the limited time I do have to play, but it's done the exact opposite. Am I not allowed to be frustrated by that?

[ceryxp]

People keep pushing it because not everybody has the same amount of time to play. That math assumes you're available for 100% of the daily & weekly objectives. Since that's not going to be the case for everybody, that math doesn't apply to everybody.

 

No, it does not.

 

( 21 ( 8 + 3(10) ) ) / 8 = 99.75

 

That is 21 weeks, 8 points for logging in four days per week, and 3 points each for 10 daily POs during a week (there are 14 available per week) and you will get to level 99.75.

 

That is a far cry from having to do every single daily PO and every weekly.

 

If you did do everything, every daily PO and every weekly, you would end up with 1554 points. Enough for level 194.25.

 

Does that mean putting in the time. Yes. If you can not or will not do that then you will not get as far as someone who does. That is the nature of time limited events in an MMO.

Edited May 24, 2021 by ceryxp

[casirabit]

There is a thread complaining about how some people are playing GSF and want to have them " Kick People Who Suicide x5+ In GSF" so doesn't seem to be helping in those circumstances.

 

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=993594

[TrixxieTriss]

There is a thread complaining about how some people are playing GSF and want to have them " Kick People Who Suicide x5+ In GSF" so doesn't seem to be helping in those circumstances.

 

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=993594

 

I’d like to know how the system would be able to tell if you were suiciding or just bad. I die at least 8 times each match and half the time it’s me flying into some object when I hit #3 to avoid a target lock. Im absolutely terrible, but I do try my hardest.

 

Some teams are so unbalanced that the other guys one shot you and farm 40 kills. While your team can barely get a kill. Usually these teams start off with the most players 2:1. So why does the match start with such bad number balancing. It’s because the are putting premades with the best ship setups and skills against new players. It’s exactly the same type of ridiculous match making in ground pvp.

 

BioWare want more people to play these formats but won’t make them even closely balanced. For them it’s all about numbers in the queue. They don’t care about any players enjoyment or quality of play. Popping the matches in “x” time is there only metric. It’s why they try and force people to play parts of the game we hate and it’s why this games group (MMO) population is constantly falling and failing. Because BioWare don’t give a damn about quality or player enjoyment or it’s an after thought.

[ceryxp]

There is a thread complaining about how some people are playing GSF and want to have them " Kick People Who Suicide x5+ In GSF" so doesn't seem to be helping in those circumstances.

 

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=993594

 

Can you really blame them when there are people on these forums who are advocating joining GSF matches solely for the purpose of sabotaging them? All because they are petulant. In PVP that type of behavior is actionable.

 

 

I’d like to know how the system would be able to tell if you were suiciding or just bad. I die at least 8 times each match and half the time it’s me flying into some object when I hit #3 to avoid a target lock. Im absolutely terrible, but I do try my hardest.

 

I took Barrel Roll off of all of my ships because 9 times out of 10 that I would use it I would end up running into something. I had one match recently that where the hyperspace point someone placed was located I spawned inside an object and self-destructed within seconds of spawning. Sometimes self-destructs happen, but there is a big difference between destructing whilst contributing and destructing because the system tells you you are not contributing, so you self-destruct so you are contributing again. I think that would be one way to differentiate the two. And yes, I am also an awful pilot who tends to run into things a lot. Turning, turning, turning, dead...

[DragonSire]

No, it does not.

( 21 ( 8 + 3(10) ) ) / 8 = 99.75

 

21 weeks x 8 =168 points (84 if not a sub)

4 days , 6 points = 24 points x 21 = 504 (assuming you don't keep getting GF or PVP)

672

 

5 days, 6 points =30 x21 =630 (assuming you don't keep getting GF or PVP)

798

 

FAR CRY? a minimal of 5 days a week play for 21 weeks??? You think that is reasonable?

I'm sorry but any game that demands that for unlocking a simple event is ridiculous.

Edited May 25, 2021 by DragonSire

[ceryxp]

21 weeks x 8 =168 points (84 if not a sub)

4 days , 6 points = 24 points x 21 = 504 (assuming you don't keep getting GF or PVP)

672

 

5 days, 6 points =30 x21 =630 (assuming you don't keep getting GF or PVP)

798

 

FAR CRY? a minimal of 5 days a week play for 21 weeks??? You think that is reasonable?

I'm sorry but any game that demands that for unlocking a simple event is ridiculous.

 

So you feel entitled to in-game rewards from an in-game event that runs for 5-months for not playing the game. Gotcha. And yes, it is a far cry...

a far cry from having to do every single daily PO and every weekly.

 

If you did do everything, every daily PO and every weekly, you would end up with 1554 points. Enough for level 194.25.

You know, the rest of the cry that it is very, very far from.

[RikuvonDrake]

FAR CRY? a minimal of 5 days a week play for 21 weeks??? You think that is reasonable?

I'm sorry but any game that demands that for unlocking a simple event is ridiculous.

 

i dunno how much you play other games, but for the vast majority of online games this is very much in line with the industry standard of having daily quests and rewards, seasonal battle passes has been a thing for years and will continue to be

 

the swtor variant is pretty nice both in terms of how relaxed you can be and still collect all rewards as well as are the catch up mechanic you can use by simply paying credits, most other games require you to spend

 

not liking it or being frustrated is totally fine and reasonable, but considering the amount of time some of the loudest opponents of the time investment spend on these forums, makes you wonder

Edited May 25, 2021 by RikuvonDrake

[mike_carton]

Does that mean putting in the time. Yes. If you can not or will not do that then you will not get as far as someone who does. That is the nature of time limited events in an MMO.

 

That is the nature of many things in life as well.

Edited May 25, 2021 by mike_carton

[mike_carton]

I'm sorry but any game that demands that for unlocking a simple event is ridiculous.

 

If you think it is ridiculous, don’t do it.

[DragonSire]

If you think it is ridiculous, don’t do it.

 

I don't plan on it.

[Darev]

Good thing nobody is "forced" or " required" to do anything then!

 

Content such as "kill 75 mobs or "[do a pile of heroics]" is fairly boring or irrelevant to me, so I sometimes just skip it. So what is the terrible thing that happens to me now? BW gonna come to my house and make sure I do my daily GS or what?People keep saying "required" or " forced" so surely it has got to be something like this?

 

 

Already even these forums have tons and tons of "I always hated pvp, tried it for the 1st time in 8 years cause of GS and actually had fun!" type of stuff. Undeniably GS has rejunevated game quite a bit for quite a few. Game now feels bit more fresh for many people. How impossible is the notion of just being..you know, happy for them? Imagine how much game quite literally expands for somebody who discovers, say, GSF or PvP cause of GS.

 

You're on the opposite side of the very thing you were complaining about 6 months or a year ago...however long ago it was.

You were railing against "Needing" to do PVE in order to keep up with conquest point earning at the same rate of speed that the PVE players were getting it.

 

Well, the shoe is on the other foot now.

 

Now it's the PVE players "needing" to do PVP in order to keep up with the rate of earning these new PO points compared to PVP matches.

 

You of all people should understand that frustration.

[DragonSire]

i dunno how much you play other games, but for the vast majority of online games this is very much in line with the industry standard of having daily quests and rewards, seasonal battle passes has been a thing for years and will continue to be

 

the swtor variant is pretty nice both in terms of how relaxed you can be and still collect all rewards as well as are the catch up mechanic you can use by simply paying credits, most other games require you to spend

 

not liking it or being frustrated is totally fine and reasonable, but considering the amount of time some of the loudest opponents of the time investment spend on these forums, makes you wonder

 

Sorry but no game should demand 5 days a week game play, for 5 months. People have jobs, family, friends...a life outside video games. Most people I know might play 1 or 2 days a week...if they get time for a couple hours a day. And it might not be the same game each week.

[Darev]

Let's take a look at the PO objectives on two of the servers that I haven't logged into yet.

 

Leviathan. lvl 31 Merc.

 

Weekly 1: Galactic Starfighter

Weekly 2: Unranked Warzones

Daily 1: Defeat seat of the empire enemies

Daily 2: Galactic Starfighter.

 

 

So, not going to do a weekly...but I'm going to pick a new daily...since I don't want to pvp for points, I'll refresh that one.

Daily 2 goes from GSF -> Unranked Warzones.

 

 

 

Now onto Tulak Hord.

 

Level 28 Sniper

Weekly 1: Seat of the empire flashpoints

Weekly 2: Unranked Warzones

Daily 1: Defeat Galactic Insectoids

Daily 2: GSF

 

(actually 50-50 by default...not bad. However the PVP options take far less time to complete.)

 

Re-roll the pvp daily: GSF -> Unranked Warzones.

 

 

Let's go back to Darth Malgus. I didn't mess with the PO choices, so they should be the same as they were, allowing me to re-roll.

 

level 65 sniper

weekly 1: Seat of the Empire Flashpoints

weekly 2: unranked warzones

daily 1: defeat galactic insectoids

daily 2: seat of the empire heroics

 

PVE centric...not bad. However, again, the warzone and gsf options will go much faster due to the faster nature of those.

 

Weekly unranked warzones....just 3?

Weekly specific flashpoints....3 of them. 6 or 8 years ago you could fly through boarding party on a mount, but you can't do that anymore. Korriban Incursion doesn't really take too long. However 3 warzones during "normal" hours...much less time needed.

 

 

My point is there is a disparity there, time invested vs reward.

It's pretty dang far apart based on which type of playstyle you're looking.

 

This is why people who don't normally pvp feel like the "need" to pvp right now.

In order to fix it, you need to balance out the time vs reward aspect.

[TrixxieTriss]

I wonder if Bioware run an algorithm for GS that chooses individual’s activities based on what they usually don’t play?

It’s not like they don’t have the capability to do that. It’s certainly within the realm of possibilities,

 

Why do I ask this? Well as someone whose main activity was pvp for the 8 out of the 9 years I’ve played, I’ve hardly had any pvp dailies or weeklies since GS started.

But I’ve hated GSF, Operations and playing on Ziost the most in this game and that’s all galactic seasons has given me this week.

 

I’ve now had Ziost heroic daily 5x times this week. What an absolute joke! The other dailies have been GSF. I’ve also had GSF weeklies and operations each week. And one week I had operations twice.

 

I noticed many of the daily things I got over the weeks were things I don’t usually play or visit those areas. On the flip side, my wife had the opposite of things too. She’s not a pvper or GSFer or Ops, but got these the whole time and hardly any of the PVE rubbish I got (which she usually plays).

 

I get why people are complaining if a large chunk of what they hate is mostly popping for them. Either I’m really unlucky (and I usually am) or Bioware is playing some sick game on us to force players into parts of the game they don’t play (usually cause they hate it).

 

I know, I know... tin foil hat time. But sometimes coincidences are weirder than reality or conspiracies. It’s just amazes me reading the posts on the forums and so many people are mostly popping stuff they hate or don’t play vs the few people who are popping stuff they enjoy.

[casirabit]

I wonder if Bioware run an algorithm for GS that chooses individual’s activities based on what they usually don’t play?

It’s not like they don’t have the capability to do that. It’s certainly within the realm of possibilities,

 

Why do I ask this? Well as someone whose main activity was pvp for the 8 out of the 9 years I’ve played, I’ve hardly had any pvp dailies or weeklies since GS started.

But I’ve hated GSF, Operations and playing on Ziost the most in this game and that’s all galactic seasons has given me this week.

 

I’ve now had Ziost heroic daily 5x times this week. What an absolute joke! The other dailies have been GSF. I’ve also had GSF weeklies and operations each week. And one week I had operations twice.

 

I noticed many of the daily things I got over the weeks were things I don’t usually play or visit those areas. On the flip side, my wife had the opposite of things too. She’s not a pvper or GSFer or Ops, but got these the whole time and hardly any of the PVE rubbish I got (which she usually plays).

 

I get why people are complaining if a large chunk of what they hate is mostly popping for them. Either I’m really unlucky (and I usually am) or Bioware is playing some sick game on us to force players into parts of the game they don’t play (usually cause they hate it).

 

I know, I know... tin foil hat time. But sometimes coincidences are weirder than reality or conspiracies. It’s just amazes me reading the posts on the forums and so many people are mostly popping stuff they hate or don’t play vs the few people who are popping stuff they enjoy.

 

Most of mine has been GSF or Pvp. I don't mind Ziost or even Yavin but I have rarely gotten those this week. I keep gettning the ones I don't like even when I reroll. I did get the xx amount of kills once this week which worked out okay since I was doing the dailies on Dantooine this week.

 

It really won't surprise me if they did that.

Edited May 25, 2021 by casirabit

[TrixxieTriss]

Most of mine has been GSF or Pvp. I don't mind Ziost or even Yavin but I have rarely gotten those this week. I keep gettning the ones I don't like even when I reroll. I did get the xx amount of kills once this week which worked out okay since I was doing the dailies on Dantooine this week.

 

It really won't surprise me if they did that.

 

See, that just supports my theory. Thank you for sharing.

[Stradlin]

You're on the opposite side of the very thing you were complaining about 6 months or a year ago...however long ago it was.

You were railing against "Needing" to do PVE in order to keep up with conquest point earning at the same rate of speed that the PVE players were getting it.

 

Well, the shoe is on the other foot now.

 

Now it's the PVE players "needing" to do PVP in order to keep up with the rate of earning these new PO points compared to PVP matches.

 

You of all people should understand that frustration.

 

Instead of returning to a 15 months old thread, it would have been bit more..current to talk about points made in the post you quoted. We can compare GS and Conq tho! It makes sense, there are similarities.

 

Firstly, to make GS similar to the god awful state of conquest as latter was in spring of 2020, following adjustments to GS are needed:

- Literally everything you do earns you PO points now. Choose any activity you wish, really!

- However,tackling railshooter space pve for an hour gives you 40 points. Meanwhile, everything else gives you 3 points an hour. You can do anything besides space pve just fine tho, your call!

- You need 9 points a day to meet your characters' point target each day. You can barely reach it in few hours by doing anything besides space pve. You reach it in 10 mins via space pve.

- Add a competitive element where total amount of points others earn over the week in comparsion to yours isn't trivial.

 

 

Luckily, current GS is very unlike conq. of XP=Conquest -era and very similar to Conquest system as it used to be towards the beginning. It is likely devs realized game lost something interesting when they ditched mission-based conquest and twisted it into more of a " do whatever you like"-type of syustem we have with xp=conquest. So they decided to bring some of the old conquest system back. Mechanic that incentivizes a playstyle where you are bit of a mercenary touring all different aspects of the game was how old conquest worked for most. For GS, they pretty much brought that back, just made it more fair(=in GS, solo content is not only included but extremely prominent) and removed all communial and competitive aspects from it.

 

 

In current GS, those who are willing to tackle any and all activities this game throws at them are favored in comparsion to those who flatly refuse to touch huge parts of the game. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Those who flatly refuse to touch huge parts of the game STILL get the opportunity to participate, get a ton of rewards and, if they choose so, reach level cap via credits or CM. Or maybe refresh function is all it takes to take every active player there. IG it remains to be seen.Some of those who flatly refuse to touch huge parts of the game are making a big deal about "I want to get everything I want from doing whatever I like" That sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Games just don't always work that way. Digital or otherwise.

 

If GS follows path&devolution of conquest, BW gives in to complaints of those who want to do whatever they like and reduce GS into something as relevant as legacy xp bar. That'd make some people here happy. So many want the game to be less. Some folks don't want GS that actually has some pretty interesting things going - encouraging players to go off road their usual path is legitimately pretty cool and useful. Imagine how great it is for those who discover brand new aspects of the game because of it! Some people don't want any of this though. Instead, some would like to see a GS that is basically reduced into a reward vendor that gives them more stuff from doing what they'd be doing anyway.

 

- - -

 

Again, it might boil down to something like this:

Let's assume 10% of people interested about GS end up discovering brand new aspect of the game because of it. They end up ""forced"" in PvP, GSF, or maybe Ops. After being ""forced"" to do it couple of times, they stop " hating" it and instead, discover they actually really like it. Imagine how huge a deal ithis is when it happens to some, say, 6 year veteran of the game. When such player discovers they actually like pvp, that's 10 years worth of PvP content and content patches just getting " released" for them overnight. Game literally expands for them a great deal. When it happens, that's great news for the player and devs. What exactly is your loss here, and how does it compare to this massive gain?

Edited May 25, 2021 by Stradlin

[Costello]

And it has been explained, with maths, more than once that no, one does not have to do PVP or GSF to reach level 100, and yet people keep pushing this narrative because... I do not know why. Maybe because it makes them feel justified in putting all this energy into hating it.

 

I don't think that the Galactic Season rewards are shiny enough or enough of a bride or a big enough carrot, whatever you want to call them to make it worth it.

 

However the idea that someone should log in 4 days a week to do old content they don't want to do is not a compelling way of suggesting its alright, cause you don't have to log in 7 days a week to do old content you don't like. Which I don't think anyone was advocating as being the big problem of constantly getting pvp, gsf, forced group content etc. The issue was that they were constantly being tasked with content they didn't want to do. Now the argument you could still hit 100 by doing this many dailies, this many login, this many weeklies fails to work in that not everyone can or wants to log in to do content the don't enjoy even 4 times a week.

 

The simple solution would be to open it so every possible option would count but only the first 2 daily options and the first 2 weekly options counted to the Galactic Season scoreboard.

 

Personally I'd hoped Galactic Season would get people back into the game, instead I find its just a twist on conquest which was a twist on getting people to play old content. Perhaps if people got to choose everything they would then be unhappy with how utterly grindy killing 75 bugs on Voss is and asking how is that meant to be fun on encourage people to play the game. So Galactic Seasons may fundamentally fail on every level. Finding the idea of 'forced' content is just the most obvious level.

 

While suggesting that even a minority of the player base never tried pvp, gsf, ops etc but the concept of moving up a scoreboard for somewhat lackluster rewards gets them hooked in this content, would require some actual numbers to back the claim up. Cause I can't believe anyone that might like that content, wouldn't have given it a go before now. Can't be many people out there that refused to even try pvp for 9 years but then when they could get some ranks on a scoreboard gave it ago and loved it. Surely if you were going to love it you would have been curious enough to give it a go without it all being about +3 on your galactic scoreboard as the only thing that got you to try it out. Or if that is the case, lets hope there is never a typo and they offer +3 points for murder suicide; all those people that never tried that will suddenly take it up cause galactic scoreboard required it even though never been interested in it before.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Costello

[Darev]

Instead of returning to a 15 months old thread, it would have been bit more..current to talk about points made in the post you quoted. We can compare GS and Conq tho! It makes sense, there are similarities.

 

Firstly, to make GS similar to the god awful state of conquest as latter was in spring of 2020, following adjustments to GS are needed:

- Literally everything you do earns you PO points now. Choose any activity you wish, really! (do you mean CQ here? I only get 4 options per day for PO points)

- However,tackling railshooter space pve for an hour gives you 40 points. Meanwhile, everything else gives you 3 points an hour. You can do anything besides space pve just fine tho, your call! (no idea what you're talking about...I haven't seen any PO options for Space PVE)

- You need 9 points a day to meet your characters' point target each day. You can barely reach it in few hours by doing anything besides space pve. You reach it in 10 mins via space pve. (you really must be seeing something completely different from my PO options....which again, is part of the problem of the system, the RNG factor of the objectives you're given)

- Add a competitive element where total amount of points others earn over the week in comparsion to yours isn't trivial.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to leave just the first section there and maybe come back to the rest of what you wrote.

 

You really confused me with it and as I mentioned, either we are getting vastly different results for the weekly / daily PO choices (see my other post about what I was getting last night) or we're talking about two different things.

[Stradlin]

I'm going to leave just the first section there and maybe come back to the rest of what you wrote.

 

You really confused me with it and as I mentioned, either we are getting vastly different results for the weekly / daily PO choices (see my other post about what I was getting last night) or we're talking about two different things.

 

Yeah we are prolly talking about different things here and getting confused and whatnot! What you quoted is meant as an analogue highlighting how different modern conquest, GS and various imbalances between them are.

 

I think there absolutely is a comparsion to be made between conquest and GS though. However,it mostly involves the old, objective based conquest system. For most players, modern conquest is bit closer to something like legacy xp bar rather than to GS. (New player who knows and cares nothing about conquest but spends a busy week in TOR earns hundreds of thousands of conq points with ease. It piles up on bcground without them necessarily even noticing, knowing or caring. Bit like legacy xp or renown lvls pile up for example. That same player has to actually pay some attention and chase objectives to earn points in GS. Just like he would have in conquest of old.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Stradlin

[Sofiero]

While I havent done Galactic Seasons PVP weekly mission, I agree with you. Non-pvpers shouldnt forced to do pvp missions for solo/pve-focused rewards and pvpers shouldnt be forced to doing pve/ops for pvp rewards.

 

The solution should be that weekly Galactic Seasons missions get double points but you can only complete one of two weekly Galactic Seasons missions (pve or pvp).

[JediQuaker]

Nobody is "forced" to do any part of GS.

[Darev]

Nobody is "forced" to do any part of GS.

 

You're right.

 

However, realistically, people want new shiny stuff and as you can see, long before I decided to join in with my $.02, were "debating" about the fairness of the different methods to obtain the points needed for the shiny items.

[Darev]

There are two quick and easy things that the devs could to that would work to everyone's benefit.

 

Give us the entire list of things to choose from, let us only choose 2 of the dailies per day. Once that particular daily is done for the week, you can't choose it again.

So, if the week starts with 40 choices for dailies, you can choose 2 from any of the 40. Then those 2 are off the list...the next day you can choose from the remaining 38...and so on until the end of the week.

That would include everything. PVP...GSF...Heroics...

That would let everyone play how they want to play.

As for the weekly PO's have a similar set up.

 

2nd. Make sure to include the fast "operations" such as TC in the choices.

if a 3 count of warzones counts as a weekly, you can make running TC three times count as a weekly.

 

Every week.