How would you fix the GTN problem?

[SavantDreadtech]

I'd start by addressing the real issue: Removing credit sinks from the game in the first place.

 

Remember when you had to actually buy your skills from the trainers? How about when taxis charged a fee? The taxi thing wasn't going to be overly effective in the long run, but it was there. I do, however, recall not having enough credits, back when I was new, to buy all the skills I had unlocked at certain levels, or the time I had to spend a couple of days on my sniper flying the PvE space missions, because I couldn't even afford to fly to my next Class Mission. Ok, it sorted itself on the first day, but I spammed a few more days of it to build up a buffer.

 

They dropped the ball with the crafting sinks too. Instead of requiring stupid amounts of materials from the Crew Skills Vendor, they could have stuck to a "reasonable" amount, and just raised the price proportionately, as they had been doing until the last crafting update.

 

The "problem" with the GTN is that there are entirely too many free credits floating around in the game, some of which had solid methods of removal that were removed, with nothing suitable to replace them. Trying to "fix" it by fixing prices on luxury items isn't going to solve the actual problem.

 

Right, except these credit sink that were removed were just replaced by things like stronghold, door unlocks, guild ships, decorations.

 

So....credit sinks are pointless, won't change a thing. All it would do is kill off the cartel market, which in time will just close the game down.

[robertthebard]

Right, except these credit sink that were removed were just replaced by things like stronghold, door unlocks, guild ships, decorations.

 

So....credit sinks are pointless, won't change a thing. All it would do is kill off the cartel market, which in time will just close the game down.

 

Except that I've purchased one Guild Ship, or, more accurately, contributed to it's purchase. I have leveled 20 characters to 75, with 10 more working their way up to 75, no matter how gradually. One of those hit three levels yesterday. Some of which had skills I could get, which are now free. One time purchase vs constant stream, I wonder which would be more effective, and, ultimately, why we couldn't have had both?

 

Credit sinks could have prevented this from being a "problem". Removing them, instead of just adding more with the examples you listed, contributed to this "problem". Removing credits from the game won't affect the Cartel Market at all. Black/Black dyes sold for higher prices than normal dyes, even before they were a billion credits each, so not being able to list them for that didn't stop people from buying them and listing them.

[JediQuaker]

Thats not going to work. A lot of players buy for their other accounts as well. Having it bind on pick up is not only wrong,as it would be BW taking away free will, and dicating what player's can do with items brought. It's not even pratical in real terms for a lot of players.

I realize that this would mean relatively minor hassles for those players who want to buy items for their alts or other players etc, but it's a matter of balance. In most cases it would just mean placing enough credits in your Legacy Storage to allow your alts to buy the item themselves. For trying to buy things for your other accounts, well, how many people would have that "problem" versus how many people can't afford the over-priced items?

 

As an OPTION it would in no way remove anyone's free will. 🤔🙄

[DawnAskham]

While I agree with taking more action and more to the point, more action more fequently against gold sellers. Other than that, it a false ecoonomy anyway. Reducing players credit income won't change a thing. If every player is earning 50% less the items would just drop by 50%, in real terms what has changed? These items are out of range for F2P accounts anyway. Would remain so regardless of credit sinks

 

Anyone else can earn credits by playing. If players are spending real money so other players don't have too, what they sell is up to them. If you have an issue with that then use your monthly sub to buy the items yourself. It's what a lot of sellers do. There are some who buy extra coins on top of that, they have every right to see a high return with in-game credits for doing that. At the end of the day other players are getting these items free just by playing. with no real cost of money

They are just vanity items, none are needed to play.

 

Yes and no - it is a fake economy and better sinks would not prevent all inflation.

 

However, a better balance between ongoing inflows and sinks, along with more effective handling of exploits and bots, would have kept inflation from having such a huge effect on GTN prices.

 

Also, inflation negatively affects players buying CC - anyone who spent $20 on CC to convert to credits three months ago received far less in credits than someone spending $20 today (from tracking credit reseller prices, a billion was close to $40 not too long ago, over $20 just last year, and is closing in on $10 these days).

 

At some point, even whales are going to say 'why buy CC / sell CM items now - the credits gained will just be worth half as much in a few months'.

[SeCKSEgai]

It's clear the folks complaining that a problem exists don't realize that the huge inflation on say two servers is massive compared to the rest. The pricing on the lesser populated servers are typically lower as there's less money in play as a whole.

 

An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it in the end, regardless of what its listed as.

[Screaming_Ziva]

I realize that this would mean relatively minor hassles for those players who want to buy items for their alts or other players etc, but it's a matter of balance. In most cases it would just mean placing enough credits in your Legacy Storage to allow your alts to buy the item themselves. For trying to buy things for your other accounts, well, how many people would have that "problem" versus how many people can't afford the over-priced items?

 

As an OPTION it would in no way remove anyone's free will. 🤔🙄

What do you mean "as an option it would in now way remove anyone's free will"?

 

If Bioware put this horrible suggestion in game, it would definitely remove free will as it is no longer an option.

 

I make the majority of my credits selling crafted items. However, there are some items (mostly decos) that I will always buy if they are below a certain price and then resell them. If, for example, decoration X usually always sells at 20m, why should I not be able to purchase any that were listed well below that to flip? Who am I hurting? The person who listed it at 5m instead of 20m? Nope, they got what they asked for. Am I hurting others that don't have the opportunity to buy it at 5m because I bought it first? Nope.

 

This entire thread just reeks of "I can't afford nice items so something needs to be done to lower prices".

[DragonSire]

Thats not going to work. A lot of players buy for their other accounts as well. Having it bind on pick up is not only wrong,as it would be BW taking away free will, and dicating what player's can do with items brought. It's not even pratical in real terms for a lot of players.

 

Then you bind it on pickup to Legacy prob solved.

 

This entire thread just reeks of "I can't afford nice items so something needs to be done to lower prices".

It's always people that like abusing markets for themselves that are against change. There is never going to be a away to convince people who like to play the market that their actions hurt the game...because they will deny it until there last breath. Of course re-sellers hurt the market ask PS5 shoppers.

 

I said it years ago the only way to prevent abuse is to cap $$ at a reasonable amount so no one can sit on tons of $$. Period. They have to continually earn it for new content. Nothing else works.

Edited May 10, 2021 by DragonSire

[mike_carton]

This entire thread just reeks of "I can't afford nice items so something needs to be done to lower prices".

This is it.

 

Not just nice items. Items that are not even needed to play the game. One can argue that augmentation kits and augments are needed to play the game and most people get them from GTN. Even there, only MK-10 and 228 rating ones are truly a "need" and they are quite inexpensive.

Edited May 10, 2021 by mike_carton

[SavantDreadtech]

I realize that this would mean relatively minor hassles for those players who want to buy items for their alts or other players etc, but it's a matter of balance. In most cases it would just mean placing enough credits in your Legacy Storage to allow your alts to buy the item themselves. For trying to buy things for your other accounts, well, how many people would have that "problem" versus how many people can't afford the over-priced items?

 

As an OPTION it would in no way remove anyone's free will. 🤔🙄

 

Still don't care, never will. You nor anyone else should have any say what others sell their items at. You and everybody else only gets to decide if you are willing to buy it. None of it is needed to play, if it were I may agree with you, but it's not.

 

It's not a problem as you claim, you just want it without any effert on your part. As subs we all can get the items of CM buy useing the Free coins we get from subbing. It was always out of reach for F2P long before prices went up. So you cannot state that as a reason. As that has always been the case and was designed to be the case.

 

In just 1 month with sub and the coins from the security key you can buy a character slot worth around 50-120 mil, depenant on server. You can sell dyes, decorations to get extra credits. Not to mention the credits you get just by playing. So really cannot aford to buy of GTN, Really? You can, as can anyone else who subs. For new players it will take time, but how is that any differant to when I started playing? Sure back then GNT prices were a lot lower but so was the amount of credits earned. I can get 50mil now, in around the same time it took me to get 500K back then. That is just by playing, So if some are useing their sub CC to buy and to sell on GTN, thats OK, you have the same option.

Edited May 10, 2021 by SavantDreadtech

[ElZaguero]

It seems to me that there are two fundamental disagreements at the heart of the acrimony in this thread.

 

1) Some people think there is a problem here, and some do not.

2) Some people think that real-world economics apply to in-game economies, and some do not.

 

Personally, I am somewhat in the middle on both of these big questions.

 

With regard to #1, I think there's a problem, but not a major one.

 

With regard to #2, I think that real world economic rules partially apply, but not entirely. Obviously the law of supply and demand applies. But it is my sincere opinion that real world models of consumer behaviour do not entirely apply. Nothing in this game world is a necessity. We could all live completely without online gaming; indeed I did for the first 40 years of my life, and never felt the lack. Excepting only the limited world of the gold farmers, (whom I heartily despise), in-game money has no real world value. I cannot buy food with it, or pay the rent.

 

My proposed solution would be to increase the GTN tax from 8% to 15%, and crack down harder on both the gold farmers and their customers. That being said, the F2P model inherently enables gold farming. They can always just create another free account and carry on. Only elimination of the F2P model will eliminate gold farmers entirely.

[robertthebard]

Then you bind it on pickup to Legacy prob solved.

 

 

It's always people that like abusing markets for themselves that are against change. There is never going to be a away to convince people who like to play the market that their actions hurt the game...because they will deny it until there last breath. Of course re-sellers hurt the market ask PS5 shoppers.

 

I said it years ago the only way to prevent abuse is to cap $$ at a reasonable amount so no one can sit on tons of $$. Period. They have to continually earn it for new content. Nothing else works.

 

Hi, I don't play the GTN for anything. I've listed 2 items for sale in the last 3 years, and they didn't sell, and I've purchased 4 listed items in the last 3 and a half months, and "I can't afford luxury items" isn't a problem that needs a developer fix.

[SavantDreadtech]

Then you bind it on pickup to Legacy prob solved.

 

 

 

It's always people that like abusing markets for themselves that are against change. There is never going to be a away to convince people who like to play the market that their actions hurt the game...because they will deny it until there last breath. Of course re-sellers hurt the market ask PS5 shoppers.

 

I said it years ago the only way to prevent abuse is to cap $$ at a reasonable amount so no one can sit on tons of $$. Period. They have to continually earn it for new content. Nothing else works.

 

No, thats not problem solved at all, a legacy bound item can be moved between characters, which stops BW changeing for the account-wide unlock. While I am sure we'd all be happy if account-wide unlocks costs were stopped, BW would have to recover that loss of income elsewhere.

 

I don't buy much or sell much on the GTN, so you can take your accuations of abuse elsewhere. Your so called solution would just kill the CM off, which in turns shuts the game down. Hardly a solution is it? The only other way would be for BW to do just that and increase the monthly sub by XXX amount. I am sure you be amoungst the first to complain about that.

 

It seems to me that there are two fundamental disagreements at the heart of the acrimony in this thread.

 

1) Some people think there is a problem here, and some do not.

2) Some people think that real-world economics apply to in-game economies, and some do not.

 

Personally, I am somewhat in the middle on both of these big questions.

 

With regard to #1, I think there's a problem, but not a major one.

 

With regard to #2, I think that real world economic rules partially apply, but not entirely. Obviously the law of supply and demand applies. But it is my sincere opinion that real world models of consumer behaviour do not entirely apply. Nothing in this game world is a necessity. We could all live completely without online gaming; indeed I did for the first 40 years of my life, and never felt the lack. Excepting only the limited world of the gold farmers, (whom I heartily despise), in-game money has no real world value. I cannot buy food with it, or pay the rent.

 

My proposed solution would be to increase the GTN tax from 8% to 15%, and crack down harder on both the gold farmers and their customers. That being said, the F2P model inherently enables gold farming. They can always just create another free account and carry on. Only elimination of the F2P model will eliminate gold farmers entirely.

 

True to some extent, this is something that players on polar opposite sides will never agree on. I wonder what BW makes of this thread! Still as much as I strongly disagree with the OP and suporters, it proberbly is something BW needs to hear.

 

As for F2P accounts, in some ways I do agree, agree that gold sellers do abuse this as, as you say can just endlessly make new accounts.

 

I would however now be reluctant to remove F2P accounts. Sure, I freely admit this is for very selfish reasons. I only joined this game because it was F2P. So now as a player who went on to have a full time sub, plus varoius part time sub(s) over many other accounts. I proberbly would not be here if not for the F2P option. Yes this game has it's issues but overall I still enjoy this game and spend hours playing per week.

 

EDIT

 

Just tried to correct a few errors, Sure I know, a lot still in.

Edited May 10, 2021 by SavantDreadtech

[cheeseforme]

Fix? Lmao this has to be the most absurd thread.

 

Buy it with real money if your issues stems that deeply. People who buy stuff from the market to sell on GTN can sell for as much as they want, they spent their hard earned money on it and im glad they did because otherwise I wouldn't be able to buy these items with my in-game currency which would ultimately make in-game currency practically useless. There isn't many things to spend it on at end-game besides cosmetics, you take away that and you kill off a lot of the playerbase that are mostly free to play, not only that but in the process also kill off the players who are spending USD to gain a few credits.

 

As it is currently set up, it's a win/win situation. I can't believe im reading this post.

 

Edit: Also the issue here is the scum who buy in bulk and resell items at absurd prices. Blame the resellers who buy stuff from players who are actually selling for reasonable prices. I see this a lot, just look at the names when you're buying items, it's always the same guys buying in bulk, reselling. It's an easy system to abuse if you are filthy rich. The most logical "fix" would be to just not buy the item and they will eventually lower the price. To force bioware to lower the cap at which an item can be sold is ludicrous, cant believe people actually agree.

Edited May 10, 2021 by cheeseforme

[Jamtas]

This game has tons of ways to add credits to the economy, but very few to remove them from it. GTN is exchanging credits between accounts with a small amount as a tax taking some credits out of the economy. But with Heroics and other activates basically printing money, more credits come into the game every day than leave it. The result is inflation. Without credit sinks, the economy will always have inflation. So the fix isn't to restrict the GTN, but rather find more attractive credit sinks.

The problem seems to be that the Cartel Market is just too much of the revenue driver for the game, they don't want to jeopardize that cash flow (understandably) by messing with this buy on CM to resell on GTN market. Making the system less attractive to the GTN sellers (likely the CM spenders) would be hurting themselves.

[Tahana]

One way I think the developers could help correct over inflated prices on the GTN is to use a graduated scale for the GTN tax. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is just a flat percentage right now).

 

The higher price of an item listed, the higher the tax.. Start out with like a basic 5% for lower cost items and add to the percentage at some specific break points. Like right now on my main server GTN a Superior Alacrity Augment 77 is priced at 550,000,000 credits on the high side, 545,000,000 credits on the low side. Slap a 50% tax on that puppy and see how fast the prices are reduced.

[mike_carton]

You tax something at 50%, its price will double as the seller will seek to cover the tax.

[Screaming_Ziva]

One way I think the developers could help correct over inflated prices on the GTN is to use a graduated scale for the GTN tax. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is just a flat percentage right now).

 

The higher price of an item listed, the higher the tax.. Start out with like a basic 5% for lower cost items and add to the percentage at some specific break points. Like right now on my main server GTN a Superior Alacrity Augment 77 is priced at 550,000,000 credits on the high side, 545,000,000 credits on the low side. Slap a 50% tax on that puppy and see how fast the prices are reduced.

Why do you think prices will be reduced? If anything this will just raise prices even higher as sellers try to recoup that 50% tax.

[TrixxieTriss]

One way I think the developers could help correct over inflated prices on the GTN is to use a graduated scale for the GTN tax. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is just a flat percentage right now).

 

The higher price of an item listed, the higher the tax.. Start out with like a basic 5% for lower cost items and add to the percentage at some specific break points. Like right now on my main server GTN a Superior Alacrity Augment 77 is priced at 550,000,000 credits on the high side, 545,000,000 credits on the low side. Slap a 50% tax on that puppy and see how fast the prices are reduced.

 

While I’m a fan of the scaled GTN tax as a credit sink, you need to realise that it won’t lower inflation on the GTN because savvy sellers will incorporate the tax into the sell price. It will not reduce inflated prices, it will increase them.

[TheVoyant]

I'd advise looking at this differently versus seeing a "problem"

 

Currency is always in flux, whether you look at the US dollar versus say Yen. It's folly to try and fight the value that gets established and instead develop basic merchanting skills to work within the system itself.

 

I have found the GTN very easy to "play" and establish wealth. Its traditional buy low sell high concept. I've made several billion credits in the less then 6 months I've been playing with this system as follows:

 

Sell your unused crafting mats to establish initial capital.

Look for items being massively undersold in comparison to their average listing price, purchase the bottom end of market.

Resell for a moderate reduction upon average price to expedite returns.

Repeat.

 

Its really that simple and helps moderate the market simultaneously by creating consistency on value.

 

If a new player can create billions without any extra cash spent beyond subbing, I fail to see how its broken. Just my two cents.

[Tahana]

While I’m a fan of the scaled GTN tax as a credit sink, you need to realise that it won’t lower inflation on the GTN because savvy sellers will incorporate the tax into the sell price. It will not reduce inflated prices, it will increase them.

 

To a certain extent maybe.. but overall I think people will stop thinking an hour of their play time is worth billions of credits as well. I get that this is an issue of biowares making in that they allowed exploits to make to live, and then didn't remove exploited credits. I couldn't imagine starting this game as a new player and faced with paying 120+k for one end game health medpac

[robertthebard]

To a certain extent maybe.. but overall I think people will stop thinking an hour of their play time is worth billions of credits as well. I get that this is an issue of biowares making in that they allowed exploits to make to live, and then didn't remove exploited credits. I couldn't imagine starting this game as a new player and faced with paying 120+k for one end game health medpac

 

I couldn't imagine it either, and so I wouldn't. What I would do, however, is the same thing I did when I was new, and learned to make them myself. I don't have to buy augments or kits either, for the same reason. I maxed all the crafting disciplines, and as I added alts, I turned them into gatherers for the crafters. Doing this, the market can fluctuate as much as it likes, I don't need to buy anything, if I don't want to.

 

This isn't something I learned here, although it did remind me, when I was missing a pair of gloves for Revan's armor set, and the only pair listed I could buy a SH, and open a few rooms for the listed price. I randomly came back from one of my breaks and found the complete set was on sale in CM, and so I just bought the whole set. That's my advice to anyone that's looking for luxury items, like the OP's mentioned Black/Black dye, just use your stipend of coins to buy it. It may take not buying some loot crates, or whatever, and just save them up. Then when it shows up, buy it. Problem solved.

[Vandicus]

To a certain extent maybe.. but overall I think people will stop thinking an hour of their play time is worth billions of credits as well. I get that this is an issue of biowares making in that they allowed exploits to make to live, and then didn't remove exploited credits. I couldn't imagine starting this game as a new player and faced with paying 120+k for one end game health medpac

 

It isn't the seller but the buyer who has an inflated sense of the worth of their playtime in that scenario. Generating credits by killing things and doing quests, printing new money effectively, is the lowest value-add work in the game. A player might make a few hundred thousand credits an hour doing that. A player just sending companions out to collect materials, adding new goods to the system, makes a few million credits in that same hour. If they were inclined to spend that time also running around gathering materials in person that might triple that. Other ways to add more value is to specifically figure out and craft what is in demand on the market. This is in turn rewarded with more credits.

 

All of this takes effort that basically anyone can put forth. We all have companions, and it's not that hard to figure out whether there's something you can profitably craft. I do the lazy route of just sending companions out myself and don't study the GTN at all, but that's my choice. The people who are making high end stuff to sell in exchange for the credits that I got by pressing a few button clicks took the time and effort to figure out what other players were interested in buying, and then figured out how to produce it profitably. They're providing a service that we pay for. There's always the option to make something yourself if you don't like the price, excepting CM stuff which is for $ to begin with.

 

Someone else makes their credits by doing things I can't be bothered to do, I make my credits by doing stuff other people can't be bothered to do(sending companions out and listing the mats on the GTN). This removes currency from the game generated through regular play. What's the problem here exactly?

[HaoZhao]

GTN inflation is directly linked to credit inflation. Back in my day, we ran Section X dailies for 7K credits and we liked it just fine. Nowadays, people run Korriban heroics, 1 minute long quests, and get like 22K credits for it. Flashpoint trash used to be sold to cover repairs. Now people sell flash point trash to vendors for hundreds of thousands of credits. It's absolutely absurd.

 

Final Fantasy 14 doesn't have this problem. Do you know why? Because every quest is worth, at most, 1,000 gil and no more. Selling trash covers repairs and that's it.

Edited May 10, 2021 by HaoZhao

[Darkestmonty]

raise the max GTN price to 4 billion.

 

welcome to the consequences of "haha they are canceling the referral program! HAHA". The end of the referral program ended a rather large group of people who were buying items from the CM and posting them on the GTN.

 

Now that the referral CC is drying up, the only people consistently posting new items on the GTN are people who pay real life money.

 

I have already watched most prices on popular items go up 30-50% and nearly double for some rare items.

 

There is no fix except allowing all CM items to be purchased at any time. That would allow a stable CC to Credit ratio even if the amount of credits steadily increases due to normal inflation.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Darkestmonty

[DragonSire]

No, thats not problem solved at all, a legacy bound item can be moved between characters, which stops BW changeing for the account-wide unlock. While I am sure we'd all be happy if account-wide unlocks costs were stopped, BW would have to recover that loss of income elsewhere.

 

Nonsense. There are plenty of games that survive on Subs alone, or Microtransactions without nickle and dimming them to death. They have made tons off this game since release...more than enough for it to be considered profitable. They have run the game on a shoe string, not out of necessity but because they could. Why spend 10 million if they can spend 10k and people will keep spending real money for shinnies.

 

Don't know why people make excuse for EA and others that over charge their customers. Scared they will cancel the game maybe.

 

I don't buy much or sell much on the GTN, so you can take your accusations of abuse elsewhere.

Only going off what you said, regardless if you do it once and another 5k people do it once it till adds up doesn't it? If some do it a lot...it adds up even faster.

 

Your so called solution would just kill the CM off, which in turns shuts the game down

 

How? CM doesn't exist for people to buy content and sell them in the game for credits to people who are sitting on billions. That' the most ridiculous damn thing I have heard. IF .. IF that caused a huge loss of revenue...then you know how you fix the issue....its real simple....they could jut sell the damn credits themselves. GASP