Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Zakumene]

I managed to record 2 of the problems in a single-mob fight.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX3VYtZGhE

(Please excuse video quality. Just push 480p button on video. You can see what happens pretty easily )

 

 

1. I roll into Natural Cover(Shift + F)

2. Begin casting Ambush

3. Something makes Ambush stop firing and causes it to be 'Cancelled'(castbar stops)

4. Cast Ambush again

5. GCD finishes

6. Castbar for Ambush finishes

7. Begin to cast Snipe

8. Snipe castbar is cancelled very quickly from Ambush animation

 

Xcorp, feel free to use in your OP should you choose.

 

edit: spelling

 

In your particular case - the mob is downhill from a rock you are behind. He is moving forward and is line of sighted at the exact moment you try to ambush - it cant fire. He moves closer, you start casting again - he's in sight again.

 

This is a very very very poor example of what you're trying to explain.

[Zakumene]

Vid #7

 

Here's where I in the spirit of honesty post a vid where things actually didn't seem to lag much at all. Dart and rocket were tight, though unload does another .6 channel jump. It seemed similar to my fights outside where there was only a small delay at best. that slight half second clunky feel?

 

That 0.6 second channel jump - is due to the enemy firing at you and interrupting your channel ability. Nothing wonky going on here.

[ironmb]

No one cares about your looming threats to quit. Get over yourself. Keep it to facts - when does this occur, what character type, is it just lag or you're stuck channeling an ability?

 

No one cares about how much you've played WoW.

 

 

You mad terrible?

[Scelerant]

At it's core I should be able to:

 

Attack target 1 with my normal dps rotation.

 

Switch to target 2, interrupt,

 

Switch back to target 1 and continue with it as fast as I'm humanly able to, without the game telling me I can't interrupt (off global) until the animation for my attack has finished. I need to be able to write a macro on the SW:TOR Razer board to hit Recklessness and then Force lightning with the hotkey for recklessness pressed 0.1 seconds before and that needs to trigger first recklessness then force lightning within X latency compensation. Once I can do that, I'll agree that the game is responsive enough.

[Owarida]

In your particular case - the mob is downhill from a rock you are behind. He is moving forward and is line of sighted at the exact moment you try to ambush - it cant fire. He moves closer, you start casting again - he's in sight again.

 

This is a very very very poor example of what you're trying to explain.

 

Even if that IS(not saying you're wrong) the case, that's an absurdly tight los if it is. Especially since I've shot THROUGH a hill slightly larger than that before.

 

Next, let's pretend that it is(since i don't know the exact LoS tollerance), that does not explain the main issue which was the reason I turned fraps on to begin with(and what this thread is primarily about: Ability delay/character responsiveness. (In the case of my video, it was Ambush animation interrupted Snipe)). You said yourself that the mob moved into Los(thus, being visible to my character). There is no reason at all. Ever. That spell animations should be interrupting a smooth ability rotation, be it tanking, healing, or damage dealing in PvE or PvP.

 

This happens all the time. Snipe will interrupt the next Snipe. Just kneeling down(F for me), Snipe will, many times, stop casting for no reason on the first attempt to use it. Keep in m ind, that that will happen with *nothing* in the way(even if I'm above an enemy).

 

You may be right about the LoS. I won't call you names, or a liar, or anything of the kind, because I don't know for a fact that it was not LoS. However, I do know the above for a fact and it's not just my class or my abilities causing consequtive abilties to cancel each other due to animations. It's very unfun to have these things happen and can cause a huge disconnect/ruin immersion for lots of us.

 

One thing that I've had happen, also: Our self heal(the 15-second channeled one. I forget it's name) will do this sometimes to me: I'll channel it for, say, 5 seconds to heal to full HP. Then start to move to head to the next pack of mobs, questgiver, etc. But! My avatar(character) will keep the animation(hands flailing about) for the rest of the 15 seconds, preventing me from doing anything at all other than move about. =\

Edited December 30, 2011 by Owarida

[Zakumene]

You are not contributing anything of value, if you want to join this discussion truthfully while appearing to be completely wrong about your evaluation of the problem, you need to take your time and re-read the thread(s) and posts within.

 

You are blindly looking for ways to deny the claims instead of objectively looking at them, this as I pointed out before is obvious to the point it raises serious questions about your mental state and objectives here.

 

 

Your argument about the Kolto Injection Video -- is nonsensical

Your argument about LoS in the most recent Video -- is nonsensical

 

Your inability to grasp the root issue here is profound and it is even more frightening that you come into this discussion at Page 30 ish on the 3rd version the thread quite "literally" claiming you need to see more evidence...

 

 

You essentially are the Creationist who is asking for the Transitional Fossil... there is no hope for you, you either can snap out of it or you cannot.

 

 

You are convinced about what you are seeing - and so you see it everywhere. Do not tell me what I see on my screen. I do not have these issues. There is more than one way to interpret a video recording. My interpretations are more than valid and hold their own merit.

 

I can detect the difference of the refresh rate on my monitor between 59hz and 60hz, I know the difference between instant and 0.5 second delay. Sorry to say - I know that I have none of the issues you are talking about. I never said no one did, but I do not - and you cannot unequivocally say EVERYONE does.

 

Gee dude, keep some composure while formulating your statements. You're just ranting now.

[mattjgibson]

 

I can detect the difference of the refresh rate on my monitor between 59hz and 60hz

 

Gee dude, keep some composure while formulating your statements. You're just ranting now.

 

The troll has reached terminal velocity.

[Arkimor]

You are convinced about what you are seeing - and so you see it everywhere. Do not tell me what I see on my screen. I do not have these issues. There is more than one way to interpret a video recording. My interpretations are more than valid and hold their own merit.

 

I can detect the difference of the refresh rate on my monitor between 59hz and 60hz, I know the difference between instant and 0.5 second delay. Sorry to say - I know that I have none of the issues you are talking about. I never said no one did, but I do not - and you cannot unequivocally say EVERYONE does.

 

Gee dude, keep some composure while formulating your statements. You're just ranting now.

 

That was like the perfect storm....of self satisfaction.

 

To quote Yahtzee: You are the ponciest ponce that ever ponced past a poncing parlour.

 

Get over yourself.

 

The troll has reached terminal velocity.

 

Yup. If only it was good trolling.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Arkimor

[Xcore]

You are convinced about what you are seeing - and so you see it everywhere. Do not tell me what I see on my screen. I do not have these issues. There is more than one way to interpret a video recording. My interpretations are more than valid and hold their own merit.

 

I can detect the difference of the refresh rate on my monitor between 59hz and 60hz, I know the difference between instant and 0.5 second delay. Sorry to say - I know that I have none of the issues you are talking about. I never said no one did, but I do not - and you cannot unequivocally say EVERYONE does.

 

Gee dude, keep some composure while formulating your statements. You're just ranting now.

 

I am defeated, I cannot respond to you in any manner that prevents me getting an infraction and deletion of posts (such as the quoted).

 

May I ask you to stop posting in this thread now that we have made clear that you do not in fact have any delay or other issue play SW:TOR?

 

 

Your previous posts have proven that this issue, is really no issue at all. Georg, please... do not waste any more effort on this subject. Everything is fine and ok -- the combat is not only "as" responsive as World of Warcraft it is (I dare say) "more" responsive... everyone is a winner here and soon the 10 million subscribers will applaud the BDF.

[Zakumene]

I am defeated, I cannot respond to you in any manner that prevents me getting an infraction and deletion of posts (such as the quoted).

 

May I ask you to stop posting in this thread now that we have made clear that you do not in fact have any delay or other issue play SW:TOR?

 

 

Your previous posts have proven that this issue, is really no issue at all. Georg, please... do not waste any more effort on this subject. Everything is fine and ok -- the combat is not only "as" responsive as World of Warcraft it is (I dare say) "more" responsive... everyone is a winner here and soon the 10 million subscribers will applaud the BDF.

 

Well hold on there, I never said this wasn't an issue for some people.

 

I was categorizing the issue better. There is still a complete lack of description for who, when, how, this occurs. Some people say its only one character type. Others say its every one. I see it on none. It can't be all of these things.

 

Good luck getting it fixed but go about it right.

 

The ability for the community to not explode after holding its breath and its face turning red with puffy cheeks within the first 2 weeks is whats going to make or break the game.

[Isende]

Vid #12

 

Just kinda a giggle vid. If you watch the guard is taking damage a good .5 before the rocket actually hits him. Not really clunky combat, but certainly does seem to fit in with the theme of things not meshing properly.

 

Anyway there ya go, and again I'm voicing my support for this thread and calling it the number one issue holding TOR back, or deciding if I'm still playing after a couple months of playing.

 

I'll end it how I started it, and Bioware if nothing else, please learn this from 3 threads worth of posts. GAMEPLAY > EVERYTHING!

 

deleted most of this for conservation of space.

 

EXCELLENT job. thanks for sharing this, i think this is yet another tool that may assist in troubleshooting.

 

not that i know anything about troubleshooting, of course, having NEVER participated in ANY troubleshooting of systems EVER in my life ...

 

anyway. yet another good thing about this ongoing thread, and good reason to keep it in the forefront -- we're constantly getting some good insight which, hopefully, bioware is reading and possibly even saying, "hey, yeah, didn't even THINK about that!"

[kalexkhan]

Syke...

 

Still hoping to see some details of their plan for this.

 

You know, it's 2012 almost and theirs games out their that have tons of developer interaction on the forums with even worse fan bases than this. I really wish this old hush hush strategy would go away.

Edited December 30, 2011 by kalexkhan

[ShooterX]

Xcore, you've done a great work with these threads and I would like to personally thank you.

 

Worded much more eloquently than I or a lot of others could ever hope to and have nailed the problem down as well.

[Xcore]

Well hold on there, I never said this wasn't an issue for some people.

 

I was categorizing the issue better. There is still a complete lack of description for who, when, how, this occurs. Some people say its only one character type. Others say its every one. I see it on none. It can't be all of these things.

 

Good luck getting it fixed but go about it right.

 

The ability for the community to not explode after holding its breath and its face turning red with puffy cheeks within the first 2 weeks is whats going to make or break the game.

 

The OP has several videos showcasing the issue, the 3000+ posts and 400 or so Pages have several examples.

 

 

The is no contradiction when I say it is that combat and responsiveness as a "whole" is delayed. Every ability and every ability chain/rotation. However, some it is strongly noticeable, some it is faintly noticeable and others it isn't noticeable unless you perhaps are a Professional Gamer.

 

I am not sure if you've read the OP at all or any of the threads or posts but there are "very many" examples:

 

Thread 2 -- Page 109 -- Poster: Reedful (Professional Gaming Experience)

 

His Proven Credentials: http://www.arenajunkies.com/user/174129-threatslol/

 

WC3 Tournament Player

WoW Tournament Player

CS:S Tournament Player

 

Attended regionals and most MLG events from 2008-2010

 

Xcore: On a personal note, I value input like this a lot as this is someone with a very high understand of the intricacies of "Competitive Combat Design". I realize that the view may be a little "Hardcore" but nonetheless it is invaluable and coming from an individual that is perceiving the "Gameworld" at a higher level.

 

"Speaking from a professional gamer's standpoint, the game is simply unplayable. It is barely possible to outplay your opponents with a 2 second median reaction time. Olympic is .4, I'd settle for .8. It is hilarious how they were bragging about taking subscriptions away from World of Warcraft when anything in this game after the single player parts might as well have been made in 2003... by Blizzard, and then discarded so their game would actually be successful.

 

I can interrupt my own instant casts. There's at least a 1 second delay on every single one of my abilities(even instants not on the global) with a professional gaming computer and 3 MS. I live right down the road. You should hire me, throw away the Hero Engine and maybe we can fix your issues.

 

--

 

Say I'm CC'd by the door in Voidstar and I want to trinket to interrupt the cap - here we have a perfect example of how you've ripped off World of Warcraft almost to the letter with everything from the battleground style in this, "Warzone," to "Tenacity" AND it's cooldown, et al, holy moly.

 

So anyway, here I am playing a WoW clone, stunned by the door. I trinket(I am not going to call it Tenacity because it is a blatant rip off of World of Warcraft and it hasn't established a real name for itself.) Nothing happens. Nothing happens for almost an entire global. I am spamming Concussion Charge. At this point I have only casted Tenacity, which does not use my global and I have waited for 1.5 seconds. Finally, the game registers that I have casted my PvP trinket, takes the cooldown 2 seconds late, frees me from my CC and allows my Concussion Charge spam to activate the ability except I get knocked back, the UI tells me my instant cast ability was interrupted and my Resolve bar has already decayed to 75%.

 

There is no saying, "hehehe don't spam your abilities." There is no saying, "well I still like the game anyway!" There is no saying, "well if everyone has the same lag, it's balanced!""

 

The above is only a very small example of evidence, very small. As I said if you are looking for evidence and details please take your time and read through the other threads, don't just join the discussion unless you are more informed.

 

 

 

Secondly, the fact that you cannot experience it yourself does not mean the problem in responsiveness is not there. As well stated here:

 

Thread 3 -- Page 13 -- Poster: Asabalana (Casual Gamer)

 

"I am an average player who will never be on the list of greats and I see the issue very clearly. Yesterday I ran Esseles on a Trooper alt. It was painful. Spells misfired, spells cast after the gcd was over and ability bar was lit had delays before they activated. At points trying to cast while straffing was an adventure. As bad as the problem is in solo play, you can work around it, but in group play it is really bad. You feel that you are letting the group down because you can't function and play your part.

 

Yes I have played WOW and the only thing that I liked about the game was the combat system. But I am a noob at heart. This is an issue that affects everyone. The only difference between the top tier well experienced players and noobs newbies and newcomers is that the top guys/gals can understand and verbalize why game play does not feel good. The rest just know that it does not feel good although they can't put their finger on why.

 

I can't speak to whether this will make or break swtor, but believe that it will cost the game a great many subs and result in a great deal of lost revenue for EA/BW. It will cost the loss of most of the top tier players who although small in number contribute a lot to the game and community.

 

The game still has a lot of bugs. LOL, yesterday a level 17 player asked for help with a boss in general. I responded with my 26 JC Shadow. We fought the boss and he was killed quickly but I got the boss to 0 health and the thing still kept fighting. That went on for ten minutes and the boss just kept on with 0 health and would not drop. I told the person that I was trying to help that the instance was bugged and that he should just move on. No big deal (one bugged quest out of thousands that will be fixed eventually). But the combat system problems are a prime big deal. They need to be given top priority with communication to the community and be fixed post haste. Otherwise people will start leaving the game. It will be a real shame because most of the people who end up leaving really like the game and want to play, but find it not playable because of the combat issue.

 

To the OP, I think that BW owes you big time. You have identified and described a problem and forced their attention to it. BW is much better off facing this right now than rather seeing subs drop and somewhere down the line when it is way to late identifying why."

 

 

 

After reading these items I urge you to look through the videos listed in the OP.

[soujirop]

This is really a serious thing they should improve, and not the little details other people complain about in this forum.

[Triskil]

I really love this game but this issue is paramount for its survival. Please devote whatever resources are necessary to fix this asap. I don't care about broken quests, lag, or extra content. This is the number one issue for swtor and if its fixed I can take whatever flaws exist with ease in the mean time. Please bioware don't let this be another warhammer online!

[Xcore]

Does anyone not see a problem with this statement?:

 

I can interrupt my own instant casts.

 

 

 

This is the epitome of broken combat mechanics.... interrupting instants?

[Isende]

Does anyone not see a problem with this statement?:

 

I can interrupt my own instant casts.

 

 

 

This is the epitome of broken combat mechanics.... interrupting instants?

 

yep, playing on my consular again. i'm not interrupting my own instants, but they are being interrupted. biggest cases in point? weaken mind (instant, dot) and project (instant).

 

no kidding. fighting bad guys two lvls below me and they're consistently interrupting these two opening spells.

 

either that, or the screen messages i'm getting saying "interrupted" are LIES. course, the fact that they do nothing, too, is indicative of interruption ...

[Vorlia]

Does anyone not see a problem with this statement?:

 

I can interrupt my own instant casts.

 

This is the epitome of broken combat mechanics.... interrupting instants?

 

I've been able to do the same. It bewildered me until I figured out what was going on (partly via this forum thread).

 

I don't come to the forums to complain. I don't even come often to browse. But, I did come seeking information on all the sloppy client-server mechanics that this thread discusses, and it makes a great deal more sense to me now (the clunkiness I feel when playing).

 

I truly hope they can manipulate their code in quick order to correct these issues. If not, then they should at least give us a time-frame of when we can expect it to be "fixed."

Edited December 30, 2011 by Vorlia

[Terko_Koslah]

I'm feeling the game and it's a good way for me and my brother to spend time together. I do not feel strongly about this issue but it's in my opinion one of the most reasonable topics on these forums, and something I understand. And also something that should be looked into and taken into consideration and if it comes to that then developed.

 

My brother said today that some of the issues discussed here are because people have gotten so oriented with the game play style of WoW. This is as stated in many posts something I can't really put my finger into, even though it is true.

[Terko_Koslah]

Does anyone not see a problem with this statement?:

 

I can interrupt my own instant casts.

 

 

 

This is the epitome of broken combat mechanics.... interrupting instants?

 

As I stated above this game does not support a concept of instant in a similar manner as WoW. Although I see the point here. And I do not know of broken game mechanics as far as they are concerned.

[Eboo-Kauri]

/ragebump

[Nephrahim]

Does anyone not see a problem with this statement?:

 

I can interrupt my own instant casts.

 

 

 

This is the epitome of broken combat mechanics.... interrupting instants?

 

Yeah. You only run into it when you're in a very intense situation and forget how the combat works, but I have intrupted heals before. And it's resulted in a wipe (Might have wiped anyway, but it didn't help, for sure.)

[taeccool]

I didn't miss the point, I am just emphasising that this type of thing is a side issue. It can be dealt with later.

 

They need to make this game play smoothly and fluidly in all areas first as a matter of extreme priority. Until they manage that, the rest of the complaints won't even matter as a significant proportion of the players who have bought the game will stop playing it. They are on a timer with this issue.

 

He didn't say it was more important than fluid gameplay, he's just mentioning that it's co-related.

[Randkin]

As I stated above this game does not support a concept of instant in a similar manner as WoW. Although I see the point here. And I do not know of broken game mechanics as far as they are concerned.

 

Then it is not instant. There are no "instant-instant" and "instant after a 1.5 second animation". It's either instant or it's not. So apparently it doesn't support a concept of proper english wording in this case.