Scelerant Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'd say that about sums the entire debate up. Yes cloudxshadowbane - What Bnol is saying is all the operatives & scoundrels can say and it fails hard. -Gratus If you're solo and the Operative/Scoundrel gets the opener on you, 3 second stun + damage as far as I know. You should be able to trinket the stun in under 1.2 seconds, meaning that you have cleared the stun before the second global is up for the Operative/Scoundrel. At this point you can pop a healing pack, use a defensive cool down, use a CC ability or multiple of the above. Given that the ones we have seen do 6k or higher Hidden Strikes are Operatives with substantial amounts of epics using adrenals, warzone buffs and relics, it looks like one of those ZHC + ToEP issues, rather than an actual class issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasui Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you're solo and the Operative/Scoundrel gets the opener on you, 3 second stun + damage as far as I know. You should be able to trinket the stun in under 1.2 seconds, meaning that you have cleared the stun before the second global is up for the Operative/Scoundrel. At this point you can pop a healing pack, use a defensive cool down, use a CC ability or multiple of the above. Given that the ones we have seen do 6k or higher Hidden Strikes are Operatives with substantial amounts of epics using adrenals, warzone buffs and relics, it looks like one of those ZHC + ToEP issues, rather than an actual class issue. It's nice to see posts like this one and Bnol's to show that there are actually people out there that get it. I personally have lost all patience with trying to explain things logically in these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudxshadowbane Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's nice to see posts like this one and Bnol's to show that there are actually people out there that get it. I personally have lost all patience with trying to explain things logically in these threads. Of course an op/scoun player is going to agree and see "logic" they think exists when another player of the same OP class is making a post defending their for-mentioned class. Obvious is Obvious. It has been proven that they are OP, you are just not willing to admit it. You, at the start of schooling, were probably one of the kids that told the teacher they were wrong when they said "1 +1 =2" and were in such denial that you truely believed the teacher was indeed wrong. Luckily the devs will see it, test it themselves, and bring the bat out. What they should do is hit the class with the bat hard a couple times, as a band-aid, so they don't lose subscriptions, and then build the class back up to a balanced status. I will say it again, the game is NOT built around 1v1, so complaining about GANKING, as in getting owned by multiple players is MOOT. Trying to use said point to defend your class because it is OVERPOWERED in 1v1, and the most powerful class in 1v1, is also MOOT. a group full of the most powerful 1v1 classes will DOMINATE a group mixed of like you say, with healers and tanks. It has already been proven that a lvl 40+ geared OP can decimate a geared 50 EVEN IF they have 1 or MORE dedicated healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasui Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It has already been proven that a lvl 40+ geared OP can decimate a geared 50 EVEN IF they have 1 or MORE dedicated healers. Really? I could dissect that giant wall of lies, but why bother when you say completely ridiculous things like this. Do you actually believe this? You've got to be a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worldview Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 ;)I think the problem here is that we are all naturally inclined to complain about anything that does not favor US... as in this does not favor ME so i HATE it lets CHANGE IT - When I am killed by a vengeance warrior : WOW...THEY ARE SO F'NG OP - Then a Merc kills me: WOOOOOO THEY ARE SO OP MAN... - Killed by an enemy sorc? WOW WHAT SPEC IS HE *** Meanwhile as a sorc, I am racking up kills and sprinting all over the place AND healing I hope bioware does not touch the stats for a very long time because I am quite happy with how the PvP is and there are not enough geared 50s to tell the difference between a general unfair advantage and crying because the game is different than other MMOs in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliggXx Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have doubts that anyone claiming that Ops/Scoundrels are OP are legitimately leveled and geared individuals. My experience is that anyone with good PvP gear isn't dying in the inital burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudxshadowbane Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Really? I could dissect that giant wall of lies, but why bother when you say completely ridiculous things like this. Do you actually believe this? You've got to be a troll. ahh the old "I'm a 12 year old and anytime you post truth that I do not agree with, you have to be a troll", response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themainamigo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yep. I too have been playing PvP-Centric MMO's since 1997 when UO released and the reason for the number of calls for Operatives & Scoundrels to be castrated is for good reason and they know it. The BW PVP team needs to be replaced TBH. -Gratus Notice how all the posts from operatives/scoundrels are along the line of , you dont use trinket, you dont bubble, learn to play etc...... Your whining more about us being unhappy than we are about how OP you are. I would be upset too I guess if I had rolled this class, cos then I would be rofl at people for this first two weeks. It will end soon I'm pretty sure, end of.... /agree massively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogaboog Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The "rogue" archetype is usually the best PvP class in most MMOs. Look at this current WoW season - the rogue is dominant again. If you are a serious PvPer I suggest you suck up your fascination with lightsabers and roll a Operative/Scoundrel. They are truly a blast to play with in PvP. This says it all, they are overpowered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) It has been proven that they are OP, you are just not willing to admit it. Nothing has been proven, there were not any videos or screenshots with tests. Where is the proof ? All I saw was a video where a geared lvl 50 op/sc did slaughter low level characters and a lvl 13 did complain about a lvl 50 operative. Why did he not show a video about a lvl 13 operative vs his lvl 13 character ? Where is the proof about high end pvp with high expertise and same gear ? Where are the test duels ? Where are the videos and screenshots with gear comparison and dmg output in fights ? Edited January 6, 2012 by BobaFurz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scelerant Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Notice how all the posts from operatives/scoundrels are along the line of , you dont use trinket, you dont bubble, learn to play etc...... I'm neither, highest is a mid-level operative alt. However, use your bubble, use your trinket and so on are just alternatives. Sure crying nerf is like sexism or racism, its fun for a while but then it just becomes sad, uninteresting and pathetic. I may even agree with the nerf cries if I saw an Operative doing a 7 - 8k hidden strike against a level 50 target in similar gear without using adrenals, trinkets or warzone buffs. If you can't produce that then I just have to say that you are pulling a Thunderheart*. *Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl was a community representative for SWG who tested if the commando profession was overpowered by fighting another commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokushi Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 OP is imba,and needs to be nerfed like Sin was over, and over in beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_shades Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Of course an op/scoun player is going to agree and see "logic" they think exists when another player of the same OP class is making a post defending their for-mentioned class. Obvious is Obvious. It has been proven that they are OP, you are just not willing to admit it. You, at the start of schooling, were probably one of the kids that told the teacher they were wrong when they said "1 +1 =2" and were in such denial that you truely believed the teacher was indeed wrong. Luckily the devs will see it, test it themselves, and bring the bat out. What they should do is hit the class with the bat hard a couple times, as a band-aid, so they don't lose subscriptions, and then build the class back up to a balanced status. I will say it again, the game is NOT built around 1v1, so complaining about GANKING, as in getting owned by multiple players is MOOT. Trying to use said point to defend your class because it is OVERPOWERED in 1v1, and the most powerful class in 1v1, is also MOOT. a group full of the most powerful 1v1 classes will DOMINATE a group mixed of like you say, with healers and tanks. It has already been proven that a lvl 40+ geared OP can decimate a geared 50 EVEN IF they have 1 or MORE dedicated healers. I'm never in favor of hitting hard with the nerf bat, do just a bit at first, if more is then need can reduce damage a bit more. I hate over nerfs, and find myself defending Ops even though I personally think there burst is a bit over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZyIor Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Me 499 Expertise (Nearly full t2 Sage Heal / 15,5k Health) Operative comes out of Stealth stuns me - 5,5k Crit , 5,5k Crit , 3k (+ dots) without my "Oh **** button" or Guard buff i just die Biggest hit from this guy was 6220 Edited January 6, 2012 by ZyIor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 OP is imba,and needs to be nerfed like Sin was over, and over in beta A) Sins/Shadows are a op/scoundrels anticlass. If you lose to one you need to quit the game. B) Sins/Shadows are FAR better in premade vs premade pvp and every bit as good vs pugs. You have taunt/guards and don't hit like a wet noodle out of stealth. There is a reason sins/shadows are stacked with other tanks who use tank spec and heals. They interupt better then a op/scoundrel. They do as much or more overall dmg then a op/scoundrel and they aren't screwed by their opener filling someones resolve bar So sick of these forums. Let me sum this forum up. FOTM sorc/sage, Merc/Commando rerolls who failed as a force melee class who nerdrage if they are ever killed or topped on damage in a warzone. They don't heal themselves, don't shield other people AND STILL usually come out on dps. Then you have the "I HAVE A DOUBLE BLADES SABER LIKE DARTH MAUL" kids, who have the single best duel class in the game and are calling for nerfs on the class they should be wrecking one on one. PLEASE reroll op/scoundrel. When you do LESS overall dmg in a 50 vs 50 warzone then your sage/sorc/commando/merc/sin/shadow? Come back here and say you were wrong. You don't want that though do you? You want to be the best warzone dmg class AND have no counter. WHAAAAAA Someone killed me out of stealth. I guess I am supposed to make posts saying I was 100-zeroed from range by some mouthbreather spamming tracer missile from 30 yards away. Melee is supposed to hit hard. If they don't? There is no reason to play anything other then range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Me 499 Expertise (Nearly full t2 Sage Heal / 15,5k Health) Operative comes out of Stealth stuns me - 5,5k Crit , 5,5k Crit , 3k (+ dots) without my "Oh **** button" or Guard buff i just die Biggest hit from this guy was 6220 Yet another lie. The backblast hits for MUCH lower then our opener. You also forgot to add your bubble. Then ANOTHER bubble because the cooldown on the first is over as you sit 30 yards away from people nuking them. You also forgot the knockback, stun, forcesprint, slow. You also forgot opening up on a scoundre/op from 30 yards away and destroying them without them ever reaching you if they don't have a 2 min cooldown up, a 1 min cooldown up and when they DO reach you they are at half health. As I said before. I suggest you roll a op/scoundrel. When you do come back here and admit you were wrong when you can't = overall warzone dps of your sage/sorc. You don't want to accept the fact that a stealth class that opens on you with every cooldown up can beat you as easily as you can beat a melee whom you open on with range. Why? Because you have literally no clue. Edited January 6, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Me 499 Expertise (Nearly full t2 Sage Heal / 15,5k Health) Operative comes out of Stealth stuns me - 5,5k Crit , 5,5k Crit , 3k (+ dots) without my "Oh **** button" or Guard buff i just die Biggest hit from this guy was 6220 Yea that rotation happens every time right... Screen shot or your a liar. Oh and I am a level 50 OP, full champ geared, and I can vouch and say 2 5k strikes never ever ever happen. You might of got attacked by 2 ppl, was not paying attention to the real fact that you got ROFLSTOMPED. Word. Edited January 6, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecunami Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I feel the damage is a bit over the top. Not saying they shouldn't do extremely high burst, but pretty much insta gibbing somone certaintly isn't balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroktar Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Well, im not full geared...I still have 2 non pvp and centurion gear...and they dont hit that hard as before... The thing is, i only know my class i dont know when i have to use my trinket, when im knocked down or wait for his next CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qqemokitty Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Step 1: Don't be alone Step 1.5: Put dot on operative Step 3: Profit Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Step 1: Don't be alone Step 1.5: Put dot on operative Step 3: Profit Or something. Step 2 should be roll assassin/shadow over operative/scoundrel. Put guard on everyone with stack tanking. Make all dps specs useless except assassin/shadow because they have the best interupts and don't fill resolver bar on opener, and have guard/taunts which is all that matters in thi s game. Step 4. Cry about sorc/sage dps specs and op/scoundrels on forums to deflect what is truly imbalanced in this game. Healer/tank stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaestmannaeyjar Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I often lose against operatives catching me with my pants down as an assassin (meaning, just after a fight with most CDs burned up), I don't complain, other classes have problems with me (Hello sages). Just remember you can't win all the time in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complecs Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I will agree with this thread. I am currently playing a 50 Sorcerer heal spec. It is impossible for me to heal through the damage they can output solo. They wont even interrupt my casts, simply stun and power through all my bubbles and heals. I don't think that healers should be immortal at all, but at least give me a fighting chance. I may be able to get away with a electrocute, force speed away, but if those arent up, and I try to stand my ground, I will die at the hands of an operative/scoundrel. From my point of view, which is limited to this class atm, they either need to tone down the damage, or give a slight buff to healers. I should be able to keep up single targets against other single targets with no cc or interupts on me. Just sayin. This. So much this. I've been 2 hit many times, even hit for upwards of 7k by operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravitySE Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 No class in any game should burst other classes to the point they have no fighting chance. Kills should be earned, not given away. There are plenty of screenshots being provided by people who play ops and have an ego show their K:D ratios being sky high. There are also Bounty Hunters who have been able to kill easily also with their auto target bs rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annese Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 i just witness a scoundrel doing over 400k dps in a warzone and yea i were dying in 1 stun even on my def stance, ******** srsly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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