fronken Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Maybe you need to PVP more. They are not OP, their damage does not need to be turned down, it needs to be high because they can do nothing else. If you target them while they are uncloaked, you mince them. They are nowhere NEAR the gods of PVP. Go and actually PVP. Every class has something that seems overpowered. Every. One. DUDE !!! you must be joking.. "they can do nothing else" ?!?!?! THEY HAVE THE BEST HEALING TREE OF ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is noithing to you?!?! a operative 21 healer rest concealment is imortal healer with uber duber super burst... get your head out of your *** and smell some fresh air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevock Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 So why not nerf Snipers/Gunslingers then? They do amazing burst DPS and can 2-3 shot you if you don't deal with them. Same with Ops, if you don't deal with them..they will roll your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafunkyo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yep. I too have been playing PvP-Centric MMO's since 1997 when UO released and the reason for the number of calls for Operatives & Scoundrels to be castrated is for good reason and they know it. The BW PVP team needs to be replaced TBH. -Gratus Yet sages and sorcs can top the dps ladder, drop 1-3 players alone, bubble for an ignorant amount and still quite easily outheal full heal specs....nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roiz Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Operative OP - What a joke. Do you know how long operatives live if some ranged classes focuses on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 To reiterate my point i said i didn't care for your counter-argument as the post contained my opinion, in other words........ Go troll elsewhere If you don't care for counter-argument you should not be posting on the forums as the entire point is for discussion. What I said was not trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyImTempzz Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 To reiterate my point i said i didn't care for your counter-argument as the post contained my opinion, in other words........ Go troll elsewhere Its not a counter argument... the guy was saying your terrible... and hes right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorluCa Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Anyone defending OPS/Scoundrels are OPS/Scoundrels I am full Champion geared and get obliterated if my trinket is down. Even if it's up they can reset the fight on the SAME cooldown as my trinket.... They will be nerfed hard, it's only a matter of time, so enjoy it while you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarilo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Playing an OP class in an MMO is fun no matter who you are. If you suck, you're average at PvP with an OP class. If you're average, you're good at PvP with an OP class. And if you're good at PvP, then you're God mode with an OP class. Thus, no matter how OP a class actually is, you will always find players defending it. The skilled players defending the class often actually know that it's OP, but they tend to argue that it's not to prevent the class from getting nerfed into oblivion -- a legitimate concern. I've played lots of MMOs, read countless OP/imba/nerf threads, and it's the same story every time. In several different games (Ultima Online, Age of Conan, RIFT, Warhammer Online), I've seen players actually defend one-shotting classes (or close to it) as balanced. Well said. I still remember Witch Elves from WAR being able to kill 2 other classes and then run away. I sincerely hope that the nerf will address the issue(s) without making the class weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafunkyo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Well said. I still remember Witch Elves from WAR being able to kill 2 other classes and then run away. I sincerely hope that the nerf will address the issue(s) without making the class weak. if that I happens it's probably safe to bet they move to the other OP class called sage/sorc:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yet sages and sorcs can top the dps ladder, drop 1-3 players alone, bubble for an ignorant amount and still quite easily outheal full heal specs....nothing to see here. Without arguing your claim of "top of DPS ladder", that statistic doesn't make the point you are attempting to make. If you are range and able to spam dps you will show as doing a ton of dps on the ladder. That doesn't equate to number of kills or utility of a class to escape death. There are plenty of posts about Sages & Scorcs and it's obvious to most that the issue is with Socrc and not Sages mainly due to the animations placed on Sages preventing them from using a series of skills as quickly as Scorcs can; but really, that is another discussion topic. I don't enjoy these discussions and it's unfortunate they are even necessary. The Devs. of a game should have a competent team with experience in PvP who play their own game and know all this without us telling them. That is their job, not ours and they have GM powers to roll classes at any level to make it even easier to do their job. The PvP team, if there even is one, needs to be replaced with PvPrs who actually understand PvP and balance. -Gratus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejaga Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The PvP team, if there even is one, needs to be replaced with PvPrs who actually understand PvP and balance. The GW2 devs have some PvP video displays from various events, and they actually appear decent. That alone gives me hope for that game. For this game, I have no hope. Although I would love to see some SWTOR dev PvP videos for the epic enjoyment of watching some pro keyboard turning/clicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The GW2 devs have some PvP video displays from various events, and they actually appear decent. That alone gives me hope for that game. For this game, I have no hope. Although I would love to see some SWTOR dev PvP videos for the epic enjoyment of watching some pro keyboard turning/clicking. Agreed. It's too bad because I actually like SWTOR far more than I thought I would, but it's turned out to primarily be a PvE game and that alone isn't enough for me and most pvprs. With Lineage ][ F2P now and its grind removed and GW2 on the horizon I'm not particularly concerned as there are games I enjoy now and will in the future. It's just very frustrating to see pvp in SWTOR handled so poorly and the potential for it being so much fun is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasui Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The PvP team, if there even is one, needs to be replaced with PvPrs who actually understand PvP and balance. -Gratus How about we replace you with someone who understands how this game is balanced. I'll give you a hint, it's not 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudxshadowbane Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Operative OP - What a joke. Do you know how long operatives live if some ranged classes focuses on them. They actually don't die that fast compared to many other melee classes. Op/Scound are way OP, and ranged burst is OP anyway so your point is moot Name one game with ranged burst damage classes that are NOT OP... name one. Watch he prob is talking about a sniper bursting him down in 3 hits lol. Wouldn't surprise me since they are both agent pools Edited January 5, 2012 by cloudxshadowbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejaga Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 How about we replace you with someone who understands how this game is balanced. I'll give you a hint, it's not 1v1. Seems like a fun game: 1v3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Concealment/Scapper is a one trick pony. That trick is the opening rotation. That trick is powerful but it is not without counters, especially in a team environment. CC/Roots can disrupt the opener allowing the target to kite, which an operative has a hard time recovering from with no gap closer. Guarding/Taunting helps to mitigate the damage as well as turns the burst into much more manageable damage. Then you can heal the damage, because after the initial burst the sustained damage lower than other classes. It is funny when people complain that they have to use their CDs to beat Ops, yet for the Op to deal that kind of damage in a short period of time they are blowing CDs of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangbot Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54endKWr3c&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) How about we replace you with someone who understands how this game is balanced. I'll give you a hint, it's not 1v1. lol You mean, "It's ok if I have an "I Win button and Get out of Jail free card" because I can't win against 3+ players at one time. Great argument. How many years and games have you experienced PvP in? Just trying to understand your level of experience in these matters? You've heard from more than one including me who have been at this since 1997 and countless MMO's how bad the PvP mechanics & balance are in this game. It is what it is and what it is requires a better PvP team of Devs because it's clear those in charge currently simply don't know what they are doing. Edited January 5, 2012 by Gratus_Mortuus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasui Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Concealment/Scapper is a one trick pony. That trick is the opening rotation. That trick is powerful but it is not without counters, especially in a team environment. CC/Roots can disrupt the opener allowing the target to kite, which an operative has a hard time recovering from with no gap closer. Guarding/Taunting helps to mitigate the damage as well as turns the burst into much more manageable damage. Then you can heal the damage, because after the initial burst the sustained damage lower than other classes. It is funny when people complain that they have to use their CDs to beat Ops, yet for the Op to deal that kind of damage in a short period of time they are blowing CDs of their own. WOAH WOAH WOAH! You sir are making way too much sense and putting it far too eloquently for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudxshadowbane Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Concealment/Scapper is a one trick pony. That trick is the opening rotation. That trick is powerful but it is not without counters, especially in a team environment. CC/Roots can disrupt the opener allowing the target to kite, which an operative has a hard time recovering from with no gap closer. Guarding/Taunting helps to mitigate the damage as well as turns the burst into much more manageable damage. Then you can heal the damage, because after the initial burst the sustained damage lower than other classes. It is funny when people complain that they have to use their CDs to beat Ops, yet for the Op to deal that kind of damage in a short period of time they are blowing CDs of their own. So your justification of your class being OP is that its only OP when someone doesn't have a group. So every other class is underpowered without a group and balanced with a group. So basically by your math it takes 3+ subscriptions to beat 1. Laugh... Saying the game is not built around 1v1, is only an argument valid if someone is getting ganked. If a class itself is more powerful than any other class in 1v1 than that by default and common sense makes them just that, overpowered. Why make any other class when you can have a group of players all the most powerful 1v1 class. They will all be able to kill any group. Besides, they DO have a GAP CLOSER. IT IS CALLED STEALTH. Add that to the fact that stun/CC breaks DO NOT get you out of the KNOCKDOWN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 WOAH WOAH WOAH! You sir are making way too much sense and putting it far too eloquently for this thread. So which of the two OP classes are you Rasui, an Operative or a Scoundrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Concealment/Scapper is a one trick pony. That trick is the opening rotation. That trick is powerful but it is not without counters, especially in a team environment. CC/Roots can disrupt the opener allowing the target to kite, which an operative has a hard time recovering from with no gap closer. Guarding/Taunting helps to mitigate the damage as well as turns the burst into much more manageable damage. Then you can heal the damage, because after the initial burst the sustained damage lower than other classes. It is funny when people complain that they have to use their CDs to beat Ops, yet for the Op to deal that kind of damage in a short period of time they are blowing CDs of their own. So your justification of your class being OP is that its only OP when someone doesn't have a group. So every other class is underpowered without a group and balanced with a group. So basically by your math it takes 3+ subscriptions to beat 1. Laugh... Saying the game is not built around 1v1, is only an argument valid if someone is getting ganked. If a class itself is more powerful than any other class in 1v1 than that by default and common sense makes them just that, overpowered. Why make any other class when you can have a group of players all the most powerful 1v1 class. They will all be able to kill any group. Besides, they DO have a GAP CLOSER. IT IS CALLED STEALTH. Add that to the fact that stun/CC breaks DO NOT get you out of the KNOCKDOWN I'd say that about sums the entire debate up. Yes cloudxshadowbane - What Bnol is saying is all the operatives & scoundrels can say and it fails hard. -Gratus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasui Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) So your justification of your class being OP is that its only OP when someone doesn't have a group. So every other class is underpowered without a group and balanced with a group. Oh! he's so close to getting it! So basically by your math it takes 3+ subscriptions to beat 1. Laugh... Saying the game is not built around 1v1, is only an argument valid if someone is getting ganked. If a class itself is more powerful than any other class in 1v1 than that by default and common sense makes them just that, overpowered. Annnnnd we lost him. Edited January 5, 2012 by Rasui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasui Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'd say that about sums the entire debate up. Yes cloudxshadowbane - What Bnol is saying is all the operatives & scoundrels can say and it fails hard. -Gratus Nah, Bnol is dead accurate and Clouds logic is flawed. The game is balanced around group combat, get over yourself and accept that. Because even if they nerf Ops/Scoundrel into the ground, you're still going to be getting rolled over by mixed groups with tanks/healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhydra Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 HAHA... why does everyone call for nerf on classes when the real problem is biochem. With the surge stim your crits hit for 70-90% more because surge scales so largely at high levels. Ive seen a sith warrior do an aoe and crit 5 people for 6k damage thats 30k in one hit. Stims + expertise buffs = high crit damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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