Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

[StonedAssassin]

anyone defending the operatives and scoundrels is either completely ignorant or lying through their teeth in an attempt to ward off the nerf bat.

I can't even use a single ability before i'm dead and i'm geared up in nearly full champion gear. Every once in awhile i get lucky and survive the first attack but the best i can do is run which doesn't help because i'm so low they just one shot me with their gun. If it was a tactical error on my part losing wouldn't be so bad but this is ridicules i don't even have a chance to counter.

The sad thing is now all the no talent players are rushing to get operatives to take advantage of the imbalance.

They can stroke their egos all they want but using a single stun and spamming one attack ability does not make them good players.

 

this.

[Kraggdog]

Yes you can break out of the knock down. I have seen players do this against me a lot and guess what? They get full resolve out of it so I'm done in terms of stuns.

 

Operative is paper thin and if they want to have this high damage output, they're heals are pretty much worthless so all those arguments for that is irrational.

 

Op / Scoundrel are PVP glass cannons. They have to be very selective of their target, which is why they're are a lot of bad players failing with the class.

 

It doesn't matter if I can get a lot of damage to a single player in a short time if I have very few ways of surviving medium / long ranged combat (without hiding or relying on very short term skills like a 3 second evasion).

 

2 minute cool down on the vanish, hardly a spam ability and it can take a very long time to re stealth if I am stuck in combat because my target didn't die or someone is attacking me. I saw a comment about putting a DOT on an op / scoundrel, this is the best counter to us and I see the really long term ones used a lot on me. If I stealth, it breaks me out when I take the DOT damage (can't cleanse non-toxins), rendering me unable to use my opener (unless I pop a 2 minute cool down for vanish and attack instantly).

 

The DOT means I am just stuck out in the open and taking a ton of damage from every direction because of how squishy an OP is. If I try to attack an enemy and his team mates are just a little aware of what's going on, then I won't get my kill and will probably die in seconds.

 

It's a very situational stealth class and it requires timing and preparation. Don't try to comment on a class that you have never played with. You get to see all the highlights but never notice the ton of drawbacks.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kraggdog

[Awrini]

Psst Kragg, Dodge/Evasion removes all harmful effects. Look at your passives bro.

[Grimshock]

I cant say i played a scoundrel or operative to 50. But playing other toons I have really just not run into many of them.

 

When they nerf the class for whatever reason people have been saying. I hope they buff are DPS a little in other areas (not counting that stealth opener). Unless it changes at 50 in groups in pve I feel very weak and underpreforming.

 

Threads like this are really funny to read. You have one side screaming omg something is OP, then u got others screaming back its not. No matter what anyone says the class is going to get nerfed, even if its not really overpowered as some people say. But so are mercs comandos jedi knights sith warriors and every other class and advanced class in the game. It an MMO every class is going to get nerfed buffed nerfed buffed 160000 times.

[Lord_Karsk]

This video even thou low lvl when getting killed show the damage numbers a OP can do and kill someone in 2-3 seconds. And we all know the class can do much higher damage when it comes to gear etc.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxIl1XVxdu8&feature=youtu.be

[Scelerant]

A nerf is a nerf, you dont get compensation for it. What stupid logic, hell you even know you need to be nerfed and how it needs to be done.

 

The goal of "nerfing" is balance, if you nerf the burst that a class is based around the class is likely to become underpowered without it. Therefore, if Operatives and Scoundrels are balanced around the burst they currently have and that burst is reduced, then it would require compensation either in the form of more damage outside of the opener or more survivability.

 

That's why many classes have become useless in quite a few different games after a nerf, because a central component of the class got nerfed, yet no compensation was done. If we look at damage overall, a scoundrel/operative is arguably underpowered compared to other classes given the complaint about sustained damage and damage scoreboards from warzones. However, the way the damage is delivered is argued to be overpowered. For PvE a nerf to burst would be beneficial since burst has a tendency to pull aggro a bit more than sustained, especially in the initial phase of an encounter.

 

For PvP a nerf to burst is a heck of a lot more complicated, since burst in PvP also means spending less time being attacked by your opponent and a higher than average chance against healers since its generally easier to heal sustained damage.

 

Just because one class is overpowered given a certain set of circumstances, nerfing them overall may result in the class becoming underpowered. The whole guard-taunt-healing dynamic is probably going to overtake most whines once people start to realize how powerful that is.

 

A correctly organized group, consisting of one healer, one tank and 2 guard/taunt capable dps who are all on voice and geared is a lot more scary than any single class. You have a group where everyone except the tank has guard on them, all using AOE taunts and regular taunts on every CD, ensuring -30% damage to pretty much the whole group and shields being thrown around pretty much negates any burst.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Scelerant

[BobaFurz]

This video even thou low lvl when getting killed show the damage numbers a OP can do and kill someone in 2-3 seconds. And we all know the class can do much higher damage when it comes to gear etc.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxIl1XVxdu8&feature=youtu.be

 

How is this overpowered when a lvl 50, probably in champ gear kills a lvl 13....every geared lvl 50 player will ripp you apart.

 

Show a video of a lvl 13 operative vs your character, that would be interesting.

 

You are lvl 13 fighting a geared lvl 50 !

Edited January 5, 2012 by BobaFurz

[themainamigo]

Low level ops do this to me pretty much every time. As soon as They get the opener I now pretty much just wait to respawn and spend most the time looking for them to do it to someone else so I can get some nuke on them.

Shouldn't really have to be doing that now, it makes me cry

 

P.S No I dont suck, I'm not noob low level etc. Lower their initial burst and buff them elsewhere or something, simples.

[Laikacosmo]

Op / Scoundrel are PVP glass cannons. They have to be very selective of their target, which is why they're are a lot of bad players failing with the class.

 

You have the same armor as a Sent/Mara, does that make us glass pop-guns? Only defense we get extra is a 20% damage reduction/reflect that has a 60sec CD and a 3 min CD 12 sec damage sponge.

 

Psst Kragg, Dodge/Evasion removes all harmful effects. Look at your passives bro.

 

lol, +1.

[BobaFurz]

Low level ops do this to me pretty much every time. As soon as They get the opener I now pretty much just wait to respawn and spend most the time looking for them to do it to someone else so I can get some nuke on them.

Shouldn't really have to be doing that now, it makes me cry

 

P.S No I dont suck, I'm not noob low level etc. Lower their initial burst and buff them elsewhere or something, simples.

 

I did start playing a juggernaut at lvl 10 in Battlegrounds some days ago, with 56% dmg reduction due to bolstering. A lvl 50 Maurader did 3-4 shot me with up to 3800 crit...

 

Low level ops do this to me pretty much every time.

 

Show a video how a low lvl operative/scoundrell kills you with such high crits, I dont believe it. When i was playing a low lvl operative in pvp my damage was awefull in comparison to other classes, did almost never crit. I didnt use any buffs.

Edited January 5, 2012 by BobaFurz

[themainamigo]

I did start playing a juggernaut at lvl 10 in Battlegrounds some days ago, with 56% dmg reduction due to bolstering. A lvl 50 Maurader did 3-4 shot me with up to 3800 crit...

 

Show a video how a low lvl operative/scoundrell kills you with such high crits, I dont believe it.

 

I clearly don't need to do I, the sheer number of others saying the same thing either meens everyone is lying or it's true. Go work that out, when people other than Ops/scoundrel agree with you then fair play...

[Trevock]

I clearly don't need to do I, the sheer number of others saying the same thing either meens everyone is lying or it's true. Go work that out, when people other than Ops/scoundrel agree with you then fair play...

 

So basically you're like the rest of the QQ'ers on this forum:

 

Not level 50.

Get steamrolled by an Op/Scoundrel opener.

Don't use your trinket.

Don't use your bubble.

Don't use CC's against us.

Lay there on the floor like a wet dog.

Get pummeled.

Cry.

Come onto forums and QQ for nerfs.

 

Ignorant QQ'ing is ignorant.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Trevock

[powerconverter]

They're tough in a 1V1 situation but in something like a 5V5 with a ton of AOE flying around they get owned. I don't see a problem with that.

[BobaFurz]

I clearly don't need to do I, the sheer number of others saying the same thing either meens everyone is lying or it's true. Go work that out, when people other than Ops/scoundrel agree with you then fair play...

 

 

I have never seen a video about low lvl op/scoundral pvp doing such high amounts of dmg and I did never do such high crits, heck not even at lvl 42..my highest so far is 3800. My low lvl pvp did look a lot different and was very frustrating. Other classes had such more amount of dmg output, wasnt funny. And no i didnt use biochem buffs or 15% expertise. I did do pure pvp for about 12lvls, did quit 2 whole planets with quests. I have a little pvp expirience at lower levels with this class.

 

If you want to prove that low lvl operatives/scoundrals already faceroll everyone you have to show a video, this lvl 13 vs lvl 50 has no meaning.

 

This thread is full of infos about my character development and dmg output at certain lower lvls:

 

Weak dmg with operative

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=63704

Edited January 5, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Darth_Vampirius]

Maybe you need to PVP more. They are not OP, their damage does not need to be turned down, it needs to be high because they can do nothing else.

High? Marauder DMG is high. Sorc DMG is high. BH DMG is high. Operative damage? It's high X6. It's clear from your posting that you are currently playing an Op/Smug. Your sig makes even less sense... by your reasoning, it's OK to have two burst classes and 14 non-burst classes, even though there are two others classes that can do nothing but DPS, and are yet coming it at the bottom of the PVP charts. You fail.

[Obie_Wan]

devs need to move away from the whole retarded rogue mechanic style/argument of "we need them to kill quickly in a stunlock cos the rest of the time they are useless".

 

make them useful.. and remove this terrible and outdated 3 global kill capability. its really piss poor design - but then swtor hasnt innovated much at all.. nor even learnt from the mistakes made by other older mmo's.

 

Truth, right here.

[HeyImTempzz]

So basically you're like the rest of the QQ'ers on this forum:

 

Not level 50.

Get steamrolled by an Op/Scoundrel opener.

Don't use your trinket.

Don't use your bubble.

Don't use CC's against us.

Lay there on the floor like a wet dog.

Get pummeled.

Cry.

Come onto forums and QQ for nerfs.

 

Ignorant QQ'ing is ignorant.

 

Agree.

[OGBilly]

I agree that they are OP'd and i don't care what counter arguments are made, as a 50 BH Merc i was taking a control point the other day with a 50 marauder. the Smuggler killed the Marauder before i could react, he then decimated me in about 3-4 seconds and he still had over 90% health.

 

I have played a lot of MMO's and been very successful in PvP in each one I have played ranging from a nike Red PKer in UO through RR10 in DAOC etc etc, however, this is the most Overpowered class I have seen in any MMO. This has not been an isolated instance though, and i am certainly not whining about getting killed because I am better than everyone else. There will always be people better than you whether its by skill, equipment, a combination of both or just that you are drunk etc, that is a fact.

 

I know the smugglers/agents will be unhappy if they get nerfed, I have had several classes hit with nerfbats duiring my MMO history but at least i know when one is needed, and this one really is needed.

 

On the other hand I don't seem to have had many problems with Sages which everyone else seems to be whining about, nothing out of the ordinary anyway.

 

Overall the PvP is enjoyable and I'm having a blast so keep up the good work

[BDutch]

I clearly don't need to do I, the sheer number of others saying the same thing either meens everyone is lying or it's true. Go work that out, when people other than Ops/scoundrel agree with you then fair play...

 

Pretty sure the operative/scoundrel uber-mode does not start until level 40.

[Bnol]

I agree that they are OP'd and i don't care what counter arguments are made, as a 50 BH Merc i was taking a control point the other day with a 50 marauder. the Smuggler killed the Marauder before i could react, he then decimated me in about 3-4 seconds and he still had over 90% health.

 

If he killed your teammate before you could react then you need to improve, because it had to have taken at the bare minimum 2 GCDs and more likely took 3-4 (which is possible with crits), which means it took you over 4 seconds to react.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Bnol

[Scelerant]

I clearly don't need to do I, the sheer number of others saying the same thing either meens everyone is lying or it's true. Go work that out, when people other than Ops/scoundrel agree with you then fair play...

 

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." Bertrand Russell.

 

Look at the guy who posted the vid of his level 13 alt being killed by a level 50 Operative. Given that he was A: Level 13, B: Also being targeted by at least one more player.

 

We see about 2500 health taken off by the lightning from the level 50 sorc with at the very least the epic headpiece, before the level 50 Operative opens with a 4090 crit. We also see 1225 health being taken off by something. Then finally we see a number of sub-2000 attacks. So in addition to being attacked by at the very least 2 level 50 players, most likely in epics, a critical strike of 4090 is what the guy is claiming proves Operatives are OP. I've seen Marauders and Juggs do that with Smash and that's an AOE ability.

 

Furthermore, its not much beyond what a level 50 of almost any class can do against a level 13.

 

Argumentum ad populum is always a dodgy tactic to use, the added false dichotomy doesn't help either and that's in essence all I need to say to render your argument failed.

[Bnol]

Pretty sure the operative/scoundrel uber-mode does not start until level 40.

 

Nah, Ops don't need anything in the top of the Concealment tree to be able to burst. Just being an operative gives them everything. /sarcasm

[Gratus_Mortuus]

I agree that they are OP'd and i don't care what counter arguments are made, as a 50 BH Merc i was taking a control point the other day with a 50 marauder. the Smuggler killed the Marauder before i could react, he then decimated me in about 3-4 seconds and he still had over 90% health.

 

I have played a lot of MMO's and been very successful in PvP in each one I have played ranging from a nike Red PKer in UO through RR10 in DAOC etc etc, however, this is the most Overpowered class I have seen in any MMO. This has not been an isolated instance though, and i am certainly not whining about getting killed because I am better than everyone else. There will always be people better than you whether its by skill, equipment, a combination of both or just that you are drunk etc, that is a fact.

 

I know the smugglers/agents will be unhappy if they get nerfed, I have had several classes hit with nerfbats duiring my MMO history but at least i know when one is needed, and this one really is needed.

 

On the other hand I don't seem to have had many problems with Sages which everyone else seems to be whining about, nothing out of the ordinary anyway.

 

Overall the PvP is enjoyable and I'm having a blast so keep up the good work

 

Yep.

 

I too have been playing PvP-Centric MMO's since 1997 when UO released and the reason for the number of calls for Operatives & Scoundrels to be castrated is for good reason and they know it.

 

The BW PVP team needs to be replaced TBH.

 

-Gratus

[OGBilly]

If he killed your teammate before you could react then you need to improve, because it had to have taken at the bare minimum 2 GCDs and more likely took 3-4 (which is possible with crits), which means it took you over 4 seconds to react.

 

To reiterate my point i said i didn't care for your counter-argument as the post contained my opinion, in other words........

 

Go troll elsewhere

[thejaga]

Playing an OP class in an MMO is fun no matter who you are. If you suck, you're average at PvP with an OP class. If you're average, you're good at PvP with an OP class. And if you're good at PvP, then you're God mode with an OP class.

 

Thus, no matter how OP a class actually is, you will always find players defending it. The skilled players defending the class often actually know that it's OP, but they tend to argue that it's not to prevent the class from getting nerfed into oblivion -- a legitimate concern.

 

I've played lots of MMOs, read countless OP/imba/nerf threads, and it's the same story every time. In several different games (Ultima Online, Age of Conan, RIFT, Warhammer Online), I've seen players actually defend one-shotting classes (or close to it) as balanced.