Neruil Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I see all kinds of things on how to make this or that better, but how they make things worse as well. I agree with a lot of changes and suggestions made. The games community has a bunch of great ideas that never get listened to or implemented to the the system, even if a simple 8 lines of code. But I am not seeing the elephant in the room being talked about anymore, so I will bring it up again. On my server there are guilds that dominate the conquest system with 3 and 4 guilds of the same name owned by the same person (legacy) how can this be stopped? This is truly not cool to a lot of people... I mean really.... You get on Satele Shan right now go look at the conquest board you'll see what I mean. That is just ridiculous. That sort of thing should also be addressed. And BEFORE you all say it: NO: I wont join another guild for points NO: I shouldn't have move toon's around just to make it on the game. YES: They are my toon's to do with what I want. You all don't pay for them to be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) On my server there are guilds that dominate the conquest system with 3 and 4 guilds of the same name owned by the same person (legacy) how can this be stopped? I am a guild leader of 5 guilds on SF, 3 guilds on SS, and 1 guild on each of the European servers. All but 4 of those guilds, 2 on SF and 2 on SS (1 imp, 1 pub) are vanity guilds (in which I am the only member). If you are suggesting that a single legacy cannot or should not be GL of more than one guild, then I most vehemently disagree with this idea. If you are suggesting that something needs to be addressed so that all of this person's guilds that you're complaining about must be stopped from dominating conquest, that is a different contention and perhaps the devs will address that issue (monopolistic control of conquest by 1 person across multiple guilds). Edited January 18, 2021 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) If you are suggesting that a single legacy cannot or should not be GL of more than one guild, then I most vehemently disagree with this idea. Fully Agree. I've several guilds, vanity guilds, small guilds, etc. If I could only run one guild, it'd cause a lot of hassle for the rest of the guildies. Edited January 18, 2021 by DarkTergon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeannaVoyager Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I am a guild leader of 5 guilds on SF, 3 guilds on SS, and 1 guild on each of the European servers. All but 4 of those guilds, 2 on SF and 2 on SS (1 imp, 1 pub) are vanity guilds (in which I am the only member). If you are suggesting that a single legacy cannot or should not be GL of more than one guild, then I most vehemently disagree with this idea. If you are suggesting that something needs to be addressed so that all of this person's guilds that you're complaining about must be stopped from dominating conquest, that is a different contention and perhaps the devs will address that issue (monopolistic control of conquest by 1 person across multiple guilds). Exactly this. I also have a couple of one person guilds, and one that I've invited some friends over and we do some conquest with it. I can create more accounts to keep them, if someone is starting to limit then, but guess what: so can the people who are currently exploiting the system with flooding ninja invites. So nothing would be changed, it would only get more difficult to track down the exploiters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Exactly this. I also have a couple of one person guilds, and one that I've invited some friends over and we do some conquest with it. I can create more accounts to keep them, if someone is starting to limit then, but guess what: so can the people who are currently exploiting the system with flooding ninja invites. So nothing would be changed, it would only get more difficult to track down the exploiters. except, you'd have to have each new account subbed, to keep the guild a subbed guild, and personally I'm not going to create a new account for each of those small guilds.....BW get one permanent sub from me, and the odd occasional months for my alts, when the reward is something I want on that account, that's enough for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) OP, there are two changes that need to be made:Decouple the Conquest achievements from the Conquest leader board; andDecouple planets from the yield size and rotate all planets between all yield sizes. Conquest has not been about a competition between guilds for a long time, this is evident by the number of planets that are consistently controlled by the same small group of guilds. Any guild can participate in Conquest, but only a small number of guilds can complete the achievements, and the impending changes are not likely to change that much. Decouple those two things and make it possible for anyone to complete the achievements and then what does it matter if one person controls five mega-guilds that always take the tops spots on the leader board? The leader board becomes irrelevant with these changes. BW keeps trying to find ways to stop these mega-guilds from dominating Conquest each week, the impending changes are being made solely for that purpose, but they keep missing the obvious answer. Make their wins irrelevant. Make the system so that it does not matter who is the top spot on the leader board. The impending changes are not going to stop that, they are not going to stop the mega-guilds from dominating Conquest, they are not going to stop the mega-guilds from finding ways to game the system, so make the win irrelevant. Make it not matter who takes the top spot. Sure, these guilds will still dominate the leader boards, they will still get their name on the planet controlled by banner and in the list of conquerors, but the win is as substantial as the Emperor's new clothes. What about the Conquest Commanders, you ask? Even if the shield mechanic is removed are you going to be able to compete with the mega-guilds who will still be camping those spots? Probably not. So unless BW is going to forcibly make these guild break up, which is not likely, then the only real solution is to make their win irrelevant. Edited January 18, 2021 by ceryxp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Make their wins irrelevant. Make the system so that it does not matter who is the top spot on the leader board. The impending changes are not going to stop that, they are not going to stop the mega-guilds from dominating Conquest, they are not going to stop the mega-guilds from finding ways to game the system, so make the win irrelevant. Make it not matter who takes the top spot. Sure, these guilds will still dominate the leader boards, they will still get their name on the planet controlled by banner and in the list of conquerors, but the win is as substantial as the Emperor's new clothes. But what if those guilds are doing it exactly *for* those reasons? Frankly, what else is there as justification for them doing that stuff? They will surely by now have maxed out their guild levels, and the "core" people will have all the conquest achievements and stuff, so there really isn't anything left *but* william-waving and the sneering satisfaction of being the winners each week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 But what if those guilds are doing it exactly *for* those reasons? Frankly, what else is there as justification for them doing that stuff? They will surely by now have maxed out their guild levels, and the "core" people will have all the conquest achievements and stuff, so there really isn't anything left *but* william-waving and the sneering satisfaction of being the winners each week. And? Let us assume that their intentions are purely ego driven, so what are their ego driven antics accomplishing? If you are correct, and they are not doing it for the achievements and titles, then what else is there? They get their name on a planet and they get to take down a Conquest Commander's shield. The first is irrelevant (especially if BW does something about the planet controlled by banner that seems to be nearly universally despised), and as I said, even if the Commander's shield mechanic was removed these guilds are still going to spawn camp these Commander's and get the kill by shear numbers. The vast majority of guilds will never be able to compete on that front. Truthfully, I think the leader board should be nothing more than vanity and taking the top spot should not impart any benefits. And if that were the case then these mega-guilds could still stroke their ego. Decoupling the achievements from the top 10 list and the planets from the yields at least means that these guilds are no longer locking out all other guilds from participating in that aspect of Conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 And? Let us assume that their intentions are purely ego driven, so what are their ego driven antics accomplishing? If you are correct, and they are not doing it for the achievements and titles, then what else is there? That's pretty much my point: if you remove guild-levelling and conquest achievements from the equation, then all that's left for being king-of-the-hill is the ego thing, but for those guilds, that's already the case. Truthfully, I think the leader board should be nothing more than vanity and taking the top spot should not impart any benefits. And if that were the case then these mega-guilds could still stroke their ego. Decoupling the achievements from the top 10 list and the planets from the yields at least means that these guilds are no longer locking out all other guilds from participating in that aspect of Conquest. I agree, in fact. To be sure, people say, "nah, just join one of those guilds to get the cheevos," but that's not really the point, and doesn't really line up well(1) with the conventional concept of what guilds are for. My comment was really focussed on the idea that removing the cheevos from being top-place-only will help neutralise the problem by defusing the megaguilds.(2) (1) Well, except the "gang of folks who'll help me get through hard stuff and help me hunt cheevos", but ... (2) Except insofar as it removes people's reason to join them for that week (to get the CQ cheeves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 That's pretty much my point: if you remove guild-levelling and conquest achievements from the equation, then all that's left for being king-of-the-hill is the ego thing, but for those guilds, that's already the case. I agree, in fact. To be sure, people say, "nah, just join one of those guilds to get the cheevos," but that's not really the point, and doesn't really line up well(1) with the conventional concept of what guilds are for. My comment was really focussed on the idea that removing the cheevos from being top-place-only will help neutralise the problem by defusing the megaguilds.(2) (1) Well, except the "gang of folks who'll help me get through hard stuff and help me hunt cheevos", but ... (2) Except insofar as it removes people's reason to join them for that week (to get the CQ cheeves). That was my point as well. By decoupling the achievements from the leader board and planets from the yields it removes the mega-guilds as the bottle neck that is preventing everyone else from partaking in those aspects of Conquest. Doing so makes holding the top spot, particularly if the Conquest Commander shield mechanic is removed or altered, makes holding the top spot on the leader board purely a vanity position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeannaVoyager Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 except, you'd have to have each new account subbed, to keep the guild a subbed guild, and personally I'm not going to create a new account for each of those small guilds.....BW get one permanent sub from me, and the odd occasional months for my alts, when the reward is something I want on that account, that's enough for me I'd only need to have the guild with other people in it on the account I'm subbed, the others can be F2P as I'm the only one in them. However I'm pretty sure that the people or person who is now running all the guilds to take over the leaderboards would have no problem subbing more than one account for the purpose. Just because they can. So having a restriction would only hurt people like us, and it would be a minor inconvenience to the intended target. Btw, while I don't approve and I don't like the ninja invite flooding what some people are doing, I like even less when people demand changes to the rules and into the game just to tackle one guy who's causing the current problems. I'd rather have BW take action against that person instead of possible ruining the game experience from the rest of the playerbase. This includes the whining about crafting too. It's better to sort out the exploiters than ruin the game from everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 To your credit, OP... you started a good conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 That was my point as well. By decoupling the achievements from the leader board and planets from the yields it removes the mega-guilds as the bottle neck that is preventing everyone else from partaking in those aspects of Conquest. Doing so makes holding the top spot, particularly if the Conquest Commander shield mechanic is removed or altered, makes holding the top spot on the leader board purely a vanity position. I think we're in agreement, then, although perhaps in danger of violently agreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neruil Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) My previous post being removed for naming guilds a edited version is here: I am not saying limit guilds to 1 per legacy, but stopping multi-guilds. These are the types of guild I am talking about in my posts. When you have a 1, 2, 3, or 4 guilds, even two of the same guild on each side. It makes it difficult for other guild and smaller ones to join in the conquest system. The other post I mentioned this in was: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985334 Edited January 18, 2021 by Neruil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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