The future of SWTOR

[Toraak]

Some would argue with you that those aren't any better, because they still involve the likes of Lana and Theron and haven't really completely freed themselves from the KOTFE/KOTET story line.

 

Imp versus pub.

Pub versus imp.

 

Forever.

 

How many more times can creatively challenged writers resurrect dead darths in a bid to eek out yet another imp versus pub plot point while they struggle to write the next one?

 

Like the universe eventually experiencing heat death, the mindless rehashing of imp vs. pub will slowly push all other story-telling options into the ethersphere, until even re-hashing over-used imp vs. pub plot points cannot be sustained...

 

Don't get me wrong. The best story was 1-50, however while I do agree Ossus, and Onslaught are definitely not even close to those I'd still say it's better then kotfe, and kotet personally. However I'm not saying it's a great story itself, just slightly better then those 2 expansions.

 

With that being said, they had better options for Pub Vs Imp storyline if they wanted to. One example would have been to use Darth Jadus which was never killed in the original story, and none of us actually know what happened to him.

[xordevoreaux]

Don't get me wrong. The best story was 1-50, however while I do agree Ossus, and Onslaught are definitely not even close to those I'd still say it's better then kotfe, and kotet personally. However I'm not saying it's a great story itself, just slightly better then those 2 expansions.

 

With that being said, they had better options for Pub Vs Imp storyline if they wanted to. One example would have been to use Darth Jadus which was never killed in the original story, and none of us actually know what happened to him.

 

Dead or alive, falling back onto old material like Jadus is not moving forward. New characters, new character arcs, new story arcs. I'd be bored to tears if I saw Jadus show up.

 

The writers seriously need to push themselves a bit harder rather than drag us through old material. Jadus comes back, gets killed, gets overwhelmed, whatever, and then BW just burned through that plot point. Oh well. NEXT!

[Toraak]

Dead or alive, falling back onto old material like Jadus is not moving forward. New characters, new character arcs, new story arcs. I'd be bored to tears if I saw Jadus show up.

 

The writers seriously need to push themselves a bit harder rather than drag us through old material. Jadus comes back, gets killed, gets overwhelmed, whatever, and then BW just burned through that plot point. Oh well. NEXT!

 

You'll run into that problem no matter what they use.

[DarkTergon]

 

Instead, we got a pitchfork rebellion of people screaming more imp versus pub!

 

These were the same people who un subbed, leaving nasty messages on the forums, insulting people who stayed, then came back crying that the didn't get hk, etc.

 

 

Personally I liked Kotfe, etc. But I'm mostly a solo player. They had great bits and bad bits, but so does every expansion or even game. But it was mostly a success in my eyes. In saying that, when I ran the hm's with someone they were even more fun, the constant slog of skytroopers wasn't as bad with company...lol

[karimthejedi]

Just read first page of this thread but arent we seeing alot of new players from Steam?

 

That's great for the game.

[xordevoreaux]

You'll run into that problem no matter what they use.

 

Hauling a character from chapter 1 of the Agent story line and planting him front and center as part of a story expansion won't mean jack diddle to someone who's only played the Jedi story lines.

 

Jadus who?

 

And no, there is no equivalency between traipsing out old characters and saying here's your new content versus presenting us with fresh characters with new histories, new ambitions, new complications.

Edited October 27, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[DawnAskham]

KOTET was released Dec 2, 2016, so yeah, four years.

 

We've had dribs and drabs since, but after the hugely and oddly negative flood of comments about KOTFE and KOTET, after BW knocked themselves out to build those expansions (admit it: they were gorgeous, fully voiced, with a complete story arc) I don't think BW is going to roll out a huge expansion again, ever.

 

Easy enough to understand why: BW rolls out a huge expansion, gets trashed for it.

Why do something huge again, just to have so much of the player base roundly dismiss it?

 

I loved both KOTFE and KOTET, their freshness, their originality, but the player base's general (general) reaction demonstrated it's not worth Bioware's time to make another large expansion.

 

Instead, we got a pitchfork rebellion of people screaming more imp versus pub!

Well, freaking stale the first time around, and recooked, it ain't any better, but that's what they're shoving at us now because that's what they heard the loudest, but there's no reason to build an entire expansion just to re-hash an over-told worn-out story arc.

 

KOTET was NOT very large (certainly not huge) as far as MMO expansions produced by other studios (though to be fair almost all of them charge for their expansions).

 

KOTET was devoid of group content - kind of a big miss for an MMO.

 

KOTET had the worst gearing system ever - grind for RNG boxes and a chance at something with better gear only available after grinding multiple ranks in the system at level cap.

 

KOTET was all instanced - mostly hallways and corridors stuffed with trash - nothing like the original game with large open planets interspersed with instanced areas for story.

 

KOTER story was singular and mostly fit only force users as opposed to the original stories which covered eight classes, or even the earlier expansions which at least had faction specific stories.

Edited October 27, 2020 by DawnAskham

[xordevoreaux]

KOTET was NOT very large (certainly not huge) as far as MMO expansions produced by other studios (though to be fair almost all of them charge for their expansions).

 

KOTET was devoid of group content - kind of a big miss for an MMO.

 

KOTET had the worst gearing system ever - grind for RNG boxes and a chance at something with better gear only available after grinding multiple ranks in the system at level cap.

 

KOTET was all instanced - mostly hallways and corridors stuffed with trash - nothing like the original game with large open planets interspersed with instanced areas for story.

 

KOTER story was singular and mostly fit only force users as opposed to the original stories which covered eight classes, or even the earlier expansions which at least had faction specific stories.

 

And for all of these opinions, and several complaints you omitted, we will never see anything but dribs and drabs again. We as players have killed BW's enthusiasm to release anything large. There's no bang for their buck when they release something large just to see the forums bleed with complainers. And yes, just by sheer recorded voice time, KOTFE+KOTET were large.

Edited October 27, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[DarkTergon]

Just read first page of this thread but arent we seeing alot of new players from Steam?

 

That's great for the game.

 

TBH, the OP's post seemed more of a troll post, but it did bring up some interesting discussions, so I guess they failed at that.

 

Yes steam did bring in a load of new players, but how many have stayed, or will stay, that's the question.

I think a lot will depend on what happens in december, and of course, whatever they plan for next year.

 

There's has been times where I've wondered why I bother subbing, but I think I'm like Zak Allen (B5), I'll be one of the last people standing here as the lights go out.

[xordevoreaux]

I think I'm like Zak Allen (B5), I'll be one of the last people standing here as the lights go out.

 

I've watched the sun set on The Matrix, Archlord, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Pirates of the Caribbean, SWG, and I don't know how many others. Hopefully we'll get some good quarterly share holder reports coming out of EA telling us they'll be encouraging continuation of Bioware's efforts a bit longer, especially SWTOR.

Edited October 27, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[OlBuzzard]

KOTET was released Dec 2, 2016, so yeah, four years.

 

We've had dribs and drabs since, but after the hugely and oddly negative flood of comments about KOTFE and KOTET, after BW knocked themselves out to build those expansions (admit it: they were gorgeous, fully voiced, with a complete story arc) I don't think BW is going to roll out a huge expansion again, ever.

 

Easy enough to understand why: BW rolls out a huge expansion, gets trashed for it.

Why do something huge again, just to have so much of the player base roundly dismiss it?

 

I loved both KOTFE and KOTET, their freshness, their originality, but the player base's general (general) reaction demonstrated it's not worth Bioware's time to make another large expansion.

 

Instead, we got a pitchfork rebellion of people screaming more imp versus pub!

Well, freaking stale the first time around, and recooked, it ain't any better, but that's what they're shoving at us now because that's what they heard the loudest, but there's no reason to build an entire expansion just to re-hash an over-told worn-out story arc.

 

WARNING: ... boring wall of text ahead !!

 

The simple fact is that KotFE / ET were good stories. Yes there were some issues with the way it was released.

 

** gone were most of the interactions with voice overs (some sort of strike). We had to choose from a series of typed out sentences to select the response. Some of you have played previous games with that format. But those were done too cheaply and it hurt the game.

 

** gone were all of the story lines ... boiled down to pretty much one of two choices ( dark side / light side ) ... more or less. EVEN still ... so many of the choices were the same dialogues regardless of what choices a player made. ALL eight stories boiled down to the same old stuff ... regardless of what character you played. THIS WAS a BIG MISTAKE !

 

** ALL previous companions were gone ... except Lana and Theron .. but even those were only "contacts" and not companions. MANY players had put a great deal of time and credits into maxing out their companions and suddenly (without warning) ... POOF ! Gone !! No explanation ! No idea if or when they would be coming back ... simply gone. And the simple fact is that since that time ALL major interactions with our companions is dead and gone.

[note: a brief two minute blurb with little conversation and even less interaction does not constitute the return of companions as they once were]. IMO this was done to cut cost and will likely NEVER return.

 

** New content regarding FP's / Heroics and other similar group (or even solo) activities were gone as well. To this day there are not nearly as many KotFE / ET activities as there should be outside of the stories themselves. This overall made the game appear to be for solo player only. That aspect hurt the community at large.

It wasn't until the end when that changed:

Traitor among the Chis

The Nathema Conspiracy

Crisis on Umbara

 

Oh .. and let's not forget the copy / paste endless activity of attacking the stations. Different planets maybe ... but the same exact station / activity ... over and over and over again !!

 

UGH !!!

 

Kind of sad when you think about it .. a great story .. but then every other aspect of the game was gone !! THAT is why so many objected to the series. It's as if the team has decided that we either get one or the other ... but NEVER BOTH again !

 

WHY ??

 

Each of these made the game what it was:

** Fun companions and actually interacting with them (this desperately needs to make a STRONG come back)

** FP's / Heroics OPs and other group activities BASED ON segments of the story (which worked rather well )

** Story driven game !! HEY it WORKS !!! This has to be one of the most unique aspects of the game. DON'T throw it out !!

** COMBINED efforts and aspects of the game. Don't just select one small part and release a small token of that part of the game every 6 months. That's just cheap !

 

ANY writer can only rehash the same old story so many times before it gets old. Disney found that out the hard way. KotFE / ET had a great story ... but killed the series by abandoning everything else that made the game what it was.

 

Ossus was OK ... but kind of a drudgery (frankly). The size area was confining and had little motivation to return. Yet there was one of the biggest "grinds" in the entire game ... over and over and over again ! Now I burn through that area with a new toon and I'm done with it!

 

Onslaught was too short ! It was definitely an improvement ! It was refreshing to get away from Tau from time to time. BUT there again .. our companions are still pretty much DOA ! Even Lana and Theron are being pushed out !

 

MOST of the fun repeatable daily heroics / FP's and OPs are still from the older parts of the game. WHY ? Good grief ! It doesn't have to be that way !

 

The art work and a number of other mechanics have improved tremendously !!

There are other items of interest along the way that have grown as well.

 

Hopefully the return of class stories (at least LS / DS as well as force user / non force user) will grow and more time and effort will be placed into the story part of the game.

 

IMO ... over all this game has yet to reach its full potential. It's not a matter of the abilities of the development team .. just whether or not they will be allowed to push the edge of the envelope (again) and make this game what it CAN be .. one of the best !

 

(sorry for the wall of text)

[DarkTergon]

I've watched the sun set on The Matrix, Archlord, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Pirates of the Caribbean, SWG, and I don't know how many others. Hopefully we'll get some good quarterly share holder reports coming out of EA telling us they'll be encouraging continuation of Bioware's efforts a bit longer, especially SWTOR.

 

I used to play SWG, but moved house, and didn't have Broadband there, was devastated when it was closed, and I missed the end

 

I'm hoping this continues for a long time.

Edited October 27, 2020 by DarkTergon

[DarkTergon]

WARNING: ... boring wall of text ahead !!

 

/snip

 

(sorry for the wall of text)

 

wall of text maybe, but not boring. Very concise, and accurate

[ruffolofi]

SWTOR still exist with minimal funds on it. Almost 9 years from 2011 with crap engine and a bit outdated graphic, especially in vanilla.

Anthem became crap so fast, nothing to do, no end game, nothing.

 

Let's invest in Anthem its good.

 

It's crazy how Mass Effect, SWTOR and Dragon Age have all suffered because of Anthem.

[Kaveat]

And for all of these opinions, and several complaints you omitted, we will never see anything but dribs and drabs again. We as players have killed BW's enthusiasm to release anything large. There's no bang for their buck when they release something large just to see the forums bleed with complainers. And yes, just by sheer recorded voice time, KOTFE+KOTET were large.

 

no, EA killed BW, just like they have every other studio/title they have acquired. go look it up, the sheer number of studios and titles EA has personally killed off is saddening.

 

People all people, everywhere, have been complaining since the moment they first drew breath, which includes you btw (unless you are affirming that you are indeed not human?). And now we have such wonderful things like the internet that just makes such things that much more efficient. Welcome to the human race! If you can't take a joke, you never should have joined. Oops, too late.

 

It's crazy how Mass Effect, SWTOR and Dragon Age have all suffered because of EA.

 

fixt, see 1st paragraph.

 

SWTOR still exist with minimal funds on it.

its called "contractural obligations" - they literally could not let SWTOR die. strip it of resources and funding so its a snails crawl, but still has to be kept 'breathing'. This is where next years contract expiration (renewal?) will be interesting to see where it leaves SWTOR.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Kaveat

[OlBuzzard]

wall of text maybe, but not boring. Very concise, and accurate

 

TYVM !

 

I wish there were some way to see this game grow as we mentioned...

 

Soooo much potential ...

 

So many areas where if the time and money were spent ... IMO .. this game would be #1 .. period !

 

I genuinely long for that time when we see:

*** The return of fun with companions (expand on the idea .. perhaps with repeatable stories / missions / interactions) ... maybe even add more customization.

 

*** An expanded story with multiple chapters similar to the concept of KotFE / ET

 

*** Added Ops / Heroics / FP's that co-inside with the expanded stories (again)

 

*** AND YES ... add a new class. This alone if done correctly could utilize a group that is already mentioned in game through out which means it already is established in SWTOR lore AND provide a tremendous amount of additional new content !! (seem like there has been one really good suggestion there)

 

*** Tie up the loose ends .... just an additional thought .. use this as an opportunity to clean up some of the character gains / losses and springboard to the next step in the story progression. Set the stage for the continuing saga.

 

IMO .. the team is capable. They have demonstrated lately that when they put their mind to the task they can make it happen.

 

They just need the green light .. and the tools ($$$$) to make it happen !

 

(sorry ... looks like the old man is wound up tight this AM)

[Tashia]

"its called "contractural obligations" - they literally could not let SWTOR die. strip it of resources and funding so its a snails crawl, but still has to be kept 'breathing'. This is where next years contract expiration (renewal?) will be interesting to see where it leaves SWTOR."

 

 

 

 

oops --- I thought the contract renewal was in 2023 .. so I have been thinking wrong all this time ?

ouch ! It is in 2021 ??

Edited October 27, 2020 by Tashia

[DarkTergon]

TYVM !

 

I wish there were some way to see this game grow as we mentioned...

 

Soooo much potential ...

 

So many areas where if the time and money were spent ... IMO .. this game would be #1 .. period !

 

I genuinely long for that time when we see:

*** The return of fun with companions (expand on the idea .. perhaps with repeatable stories / missions / interactions) ... maybe even add more customization.

 

*** An expanded story with multiple chapters similar to the concept of KotFE / ET

 

*** Added Ops / Heroics / FP's that co-inside with the expanded stories (again)

 

*** AND YES ... add a new class. This alone if done correctly could utilize a group that is already mentioned in game through out which means it already is established in SWTOR lore AND provide a tremendous amount of additional new content !! (seem like there has been one really good suggestion there)

 

*** Tie up the loose ends .... just an additional thought .. use this as an opportunity to clean up some of the character gains / losses and springboard to the next step in the story progression. Set the stage for the continuing saga.

 

IMO .. the team is capable. They have demonstrated lately that when they put their mind to the task they can make it happen.

 

They just need the green light .. and the tools ($$$$) to make it happen !

 

(sorry ... looks like the old man is wound up tight this AM)

 

+ 1 to all this

[Kaveat]

oops --- I thought the contract renewal was in 2023 .. so I have been thinking wrong all this time ?

ouch ! It is in 2021 ??

 

this is where the goings on get murky, and the exact dates, details and wording of the contracts are generally kept under wraps so we have to rely on less than detailed press releases, "insider information", "leaks", and lots of speculation - some based on educated guesses, more are WAG's.

 

some of the puzzle pieces:

 

Lets start with the pre-existing contracts which started with Lucasarts and Boiware, some of (or parts of) relating to SWTOR which may go back as far as KotOR for development and content.

 

Then EA takes over BW (2007), but has to honor the existing contracts with LA unless mutually agreed changes (if any) are made.

 

SWTOR Launches: US/EU (2011), AU (2012)

 

Disney takes over Lucasarts and all things SW (2012).

 

The new contract (2013) between D & EA grants EA exclusivity to the SW IP - but - how much (if any) of that new contract covered existing agreements and obligations? The effects of the changes to existing obligations, time-lines, effective dates, etc were never divulged, so, at minimum, all we can do is go by the original milestones that were placed and see what happens as we reach each one.

 

The markers for 2017, 2018 and 2019 have past, leaving somewhen between now and the 1st 10th anniv in Dec 2021 (or the 2nd 10th anniv in Mar 2022) as the next "known" marker(s).

 

The last puzzle piece is the new leadership at Disney. The old management made their decisions and whatnot, but as yet the new regime and their views and intentions are still a very large unknown in relation to all this.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Kaveat

[Tashia]

oh I see -- well will have to just keep playing and hope then

[haplonious]

"Covid delayed the story updates." - Lies. There wasn't pandemic on 2019 and we had only one bigger story update too. Guild Wars 2 has 3x more per year.

 

~ Tsukito, Alliance Commander

 

And also they reported they had generated a BILLION dollars in revenue. Even if the game cost $250 million they still came out way ahead. Right now the whales are what float the game during content drought.

[Kaveat]

And also they reported they had generated a BILLION dollars in revenue. Even if the game cost $250 million they still came out way ahead. Right now the whales are what float the game during content drought.

 

That 1 billion is for the entire SW IP under their development, not just SWTOR.

Someone misquoted that when they put it into wiki, and no one has ever bothered to fix it. The reference came from an EA quarterly report, which you can track down if you want to confirm it yourself. While perusing those, you can also see that SWTOR itself has not been mentioned in those reports since 2014.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Kaveat

[OlBuzzard]

That 1 billion is for the entire SW IP under their development, not just SWTOR.

Someone misquoted that when they put it into wiki, and no one has ever bothered to fix it. The reference came from an EA quarterly report, which you can track down if you want to confirm it yourself. While perusing those, you can also see that SWTOR itself has not been mentioned in those reports since 2014.

 

That was what I found to be VERY curious indeed !

 

98% of the games that EA reports on (if not almost exclusively) ... are games that are a "one and done" release format.

 

I still wish that there was some way to convince the board of directors to issue a mandate to give this game the exciting drive / story / and other aforementioned items we posted that it needs to make it everything that it could and should be.

 

There is so much that could be done in a VERY positive way.

 

It's there !

 

We've seen so many things that DO work !!

 

It COULD happen ... if only !!

 

Man ... I'm really getting FIRED UP !!

[lukeisjedi]

"its called "contractural obligations" - they literally could not let SWTOR die. strip it of resources and funding so its a snails crawl, but still has to be kept 'breathing'. This is where next years contract expiration (renewal?) will be interesting to see where it leaves SWTOR."

 

 

 

 

oops --- I thought the contract renewal was in 2023 .. so I have been thinking wrong all this time ?

ouch ! It is in 2021 ??

 

I doubt they are going to kill SWTOR. It still makes them money. I still think we have a good five yeas left.

Edited October 27, 2020 by lukeisjedi

[Suzsi]

I think that has a few reason's why the general playerbase didn't lke Kotfe, and Kotet.

 

1) Kotfe had 0 content for multiplayer activites (other then giving Red Reaper a MM version).

2) Kotet had 1 Operation for the entire expansion which was slowly dribbled out 1 boss at a time for close t a year, and over time also added Umbara, Traitor among the chiss, and the Nathema conspiracy FP's. (From what I see not many enjoyed those from the general playerbase.)

3) Not many people seemed to like the story itself for Kotfe, and Kotet. It only really made any sense for 4 out of the 8 classes. Playing it as a non force user it just didn't work.

4) The way the chapters work the consistent spawning of new skytroopers that you couldn't stealth past made it annoying for any person who played a stealth class.

 

I'm sure I'm missing additional reasons, but those are the ones I've noticed.

 

I also think BW added the skip to Ossus option because they realized how many players were not playing those 2 expansions, and wanting to move on to the better storyline of Ossus, and Onslaught.

 

There was equally as many who DID like it as tye vocal minority who didn't. One day theyll stop listening to that group and pay attention to the numbers of replays etc instead. There's just so many who don't even use the forums.

 

The monthly chapters were great, this tiny amount of story of late has driven away most of the story players. I barely log in anymore because there's nothing worthwhile new logging in for. If/when I find another MMO to give my sub to instead it'll go too (been conssidering giving it to ESO for a while lately). There will be no story players left soon, but maybe they want that. Who knows. I'm definitely bored with the game the past few years with so little worthwhile story hitting the deck.