Why regift Shae Vizla?

[JennyFlynn]

With the Steam release, a lot of old players and new faces have started playing again. Many who missed out on Shae's original promo's. I see no problem with them getting their chance now and uh, it's been a few days and my Shae is still as special to me as she always has been.

[JediQuaker]

Shae wears red undies. 😍

[Tsillah]

I tried to find the original offers of companions, specifically Shae Vizla, and the ads I've found say limited time, not exclusive. Those two terms have different definitions. releasing a promotion every two-ish years falls under the definition of limited time. Therefore Bioware has keep their word.

Don't get legal with me. They do this deceptive speak all the time and even though you can't actually catch them saying something because legally they ran on the right side of the line, doesn't mean they are being deceptive.

 

I don't expect it but I do wish that companies stop the marketing speak and just give it to us straight. I know I don't believe them whenever they say something but they imply it just the same and never clear up any discussions about it.

 

It's trickery and it's legal. Doesn't mean it stops being trickery. What does limited time mean? It means to me that it's just available for that time frame. Now I knew back then they couldn't keep their word on that as far as I'm concerned because it was a dumb idea to begin with.

 

But at the time BW were clutching at straws to keep subs and they bs'ed us all. Maybe you had a different interpretation of "limited time" but to me that's what it means. It's available from x date to y date. If it doesn't mean that, then they're bending the meaning. Perhaps this is considered normal where you live but "available for a limited time" means the same as an exclusive. And BioWare didn't answer any questions about that either. When people asked for clarification they stayed silent.

 

So really I don't care about legalities. I asked what that meant and never got an answer so to me they were being deceptive and allowed people to believe it was only available during that time.

 

Marketing is deceptive on the whole...and that really concerns me. Cause I do not know what to believe. It's like pre-orders for games based on cinematic trailers. It's not illegal but it should be. It's not the world we live in, I get that, but a guy can dream.

[DarkTergon]

Of course, there's also:

 

Release Shae: Make a large number of new players happy

Keep Shae Exclusive: Make a few entitled whiny people happy

 

so maybe their choice isn't so hard after all.

 

It wasn't really as simple as that, but I can see why you think it is.

[DarkTergon]

Shae wears red undies. 😍

 

She does, they are very cute too

[Sir-steve]

Is Bioware too tired to make new NPC's for companions rather then make new one's? This is an insult to veteran player's that already have her.

 

Star Wars is getting dangerously low on characters. Recycling is good for the planets.

 

Seriously, I have no issue with it - she's awesome, everyone should be able to get her.

[stoopicus]

It wasn't really as simple as that, but I can see why you think it is.

 

Actually I'm a veteran that got her the first time around. I still feel that way though; it hurts me not at all that new players can get her now, and complaining about it seems like entitled whining to me.

[Nemmar]

Well that's on BioWare. They made all these exclusives at one point and now they're not exclusive anymore. I don't care that others can have Shae as well, I just wish that BioWare would stick to their word once in a while or at least not mislead us. It just pisses me off that BioWare call things exclusives when in fact they're not. I ticked me off back then because these were exclusives that shouldn't have been exclusives but they did them anyway.

 

Sub during this period or you cannot have x companion. That's what they said.

 

That's a fact you fail to realise or at least acknowledge.

 

No one every said that it was an exclusive. They are time sensitive promotions/sub rewards. Even if they actually said that word, i am guessing it was in relation to the reward being exclusive to subscribers, not that the reward itself was exclusive.

 

How is this any different than a rare item appearing on the daily sale on the cartel market?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Nemmar

[DarkTergon]

Actually I'm a veteran that got her the first time around. I still feel that way though; it hurts me not at all that new players can get her now, and complaining about it seems like entitled whining to me.

 

I see you missed the point, but that's ok. There more to it than that.

[tummiswtor]

As Niko and Shae are in trailer, I can imagine every new player after watch trailers would want to have them. Happy that everyone can get them again.

[DarkTergon]

As Niko and Shae are in trailer, I can imagine every new player after watch trailers would want to have them. Happy that everyone can get them again.

 

only getting shae, no idea if/when nico will be back.

[Stradlin]

Well that's on BioWare. They made all these exclusives at one point and now they're not exclusive anymore. I don't care that others can have Shae as well, I just wish that BioWare would stick to their word once in a while or at least not mislead us. It just pisses me off that BioWare call things exclusives when in fact they're not. I ticked me off back then because these were exclusives that shouldn't have been exclusives but they did them anyway.

 

Sub during this period or you cannot have x companion. That's what they said.

 

That's a fact you fail to realise or at least acknowledge.

 

It would be easiest thing in the world to regift more or less an identical version of an old reward while ensuring the original one still retains its value and (hi)story. If BW is giving an identical reward all over again because of..reasons, add a different serial number for that droid pet. Different color hue for some anniversary pillow. Different haircut for Shae.. Stuff like this would suffice.

 

Z00m is an even more ruthless example of stuff you outlining. "Want this special companion? Wellp, you better subscribe non stop for 8 months. " Fast forward a few years and they just release her as a regular cash shop item. No doubt hundreds of people made some really lenghty sub plans in 2016 mainly to get something they thought was truly special and exclusiuve. Sum of all these parts amounts to something real slimy really. And, again, at this case a tiniest of changes would have sufficed: Release 100% identical zoom with 100% identical mission as a cash shop item. Only rename the companion you get via cash shop as "Z00m MkII" And..there you go: original item would retain its history of origins.

 

Anniversary gifts are kinda different, but still serve as an extension of the same philosophy where nothing gets to be unique. Every single xmas, I can walk to that vendor and buy the gifts by the hundreds. Including rewards given during years when I wasn't here. Rewards given when I was here..Don't matter:just buy few dozen of each again. Thus ensuring looking at that Malgus statue will never mark some specific moment in time for anyone: item will never have some actual history of origins behind it.

 

it is cool when rare items, anniversary gifts and such have their own unique tale to tell. When item itself has some unique story of origins you can learn about and track. Like..there are entire web pages devoted to Items in Ultima online, cataloging when it was created in the game world, how many there are, who owns them. Luckily there, devs are well aware of the value such items have. Older the MMO and items, cooler/more fun these stories can turn over time. Ultima Online is 25 years old or thereabouts, hunting or collecting some items borderline digital arceology or such by now!

Edited August 31, 2020 by Stradlin

[JediQuaker]

Of course, there's also:

 

Release Shae: Make a large number of new players happy

Keep Shae Exclusive: Make a few entitled whiny people happy

 

so maybe their choice isn't so hard after all.

Of course, these numbers are purely speculative. You have no way if knowing the relative numbers of people in either camp. There may actually be more people who want to keep 'exclusives' exclusive, and only a few whiny new players.

 

Personally, like another poster, I've had Shae since her first release. I don't use her, except to craft, and I don't really care who else has her. It's another one of those things like cross-hilt lightsabers, baby Yoda, etc, that are a big thing for a while and then fade away. 😏

(Just imagine how fast people would forget about Shae if they had brought out a baby Yoda companion. 😂 )

Edited August 31, 2020 by JediQuaker

[Ardrossan]

I see you missed the point, but that's ok. There more to it than that.

 

Then perhaps you should explain it. Actually try explaining why your undeserved entitlement should receive a jot of attention from upstairs. People have already explained ad nauseum why recognizing new subs is important. But I have heard no argument for why BW should contribute any resources to recognize subs who, let's face it, are going to resub regardless.

 

Again, like other posters here, like the one you're responding to...I already have Shae. I just made a new character the other day and got 32 mails with junk 'rewards' I mostly don't use. Others probably got lots more. What do I possibly need with one more?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Ardrossan

[ZionHalcyon]

To me, permanent exclusivity in an MMO is always bad business.

 

It always eventually comes around to bite you in the ***.

 

Guaranteed exclusivity for a fixed time period makes more sense. Let people have the notoriety of having something first before everyone else gets it but let them know eventually everyone else will get it.

 

Both rewards people for subscribing while at the same time gets rid of the whole stupid elitist pissing arguments because eventually everyone has a crack.

[starbuckone]

I'm having a hard time believing you missed the several threads already debating this subject.

Never bothered to look but the point is I have been away two years and come back to find something that was supposed to be exclusive in circulation yet again. Bioware has gotten completely lazy.

[starbuckone]

Star Wars is getting dangerously low on characters. Recycling is good for the planets.

 

Seriously, I have no issue with it - she's awesome, everyone should be able to get her.

 

Well they should have something for those who already have her due to the lie that she was supposed to be exclusive to the subscribers that got her originally.

[KendraP]

Well they should have something for those who already have her due to the lie that she was supposed to be exclusive to the subscribers that got her originally.

 

Be careful because I dared mention I felt I deserved a reward too, im being ridiculed in the other thread on this subject. I mean, I dont even go so far as to say new players shouldn't get her. I just say I shouldn't be getting screwed (again) for still being here.

[Ardrossan]

Be careful because I dared mention I felt I deserved a reward too, im being ridiculed in the other thread on this subject. I mean, I dont even go so far as to say new players shouldn't get her. I just say I shouldn't be getting screwed (again) for still being here.

 

How are you getting screwed? Serious question. If the pipeworks flair had been our 'long time vet' sub reward, instead of being given out to everyone, would that have sufficed? I think it's ugly AF but I guess someone must think it looked nice to have been designed, approved and implemented. Would you have been happy if BW had restricted it?

 

To me, it's arguing over principles, rather than the actual thing [which is trash] and the principles are supposedly based around fairness i.e "they get something so why don't we?" but are actually based around inequity. It's fair that everyone gets x, but you and others here want x + 1 to acknowledge that you are inherently more deserving because you have played [and paid] for longer. As Zion notes

 

Let people have the notoriety of having something first before everyone else gets it but let them know eventually everyone else will get it.

 

That was your reward [and mine]. We got it before everyone else, and we got to enjoy it for years before everyone else. Isn't that enough? If the answer is "no", then I'd like to know what you plan to do about it. If it doesn't cause you to unsub, then it costs BW nothing and they will do it again.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Ardrossan

[stoopicus]

In the end I think what matters is balancing what makes people happy versus the cost, in this case any perceived negative effect on those that got the time-limited companion.

 

In reality, it doesn't hurt me at all that new players can get Shae now. It harms veteran players not one bit. And so in this case, it seems clear to me that it is the right thing to do, and any whining about it amounts to "I got mine, screw you!"

 

I stand by what I said. It's entitled whining to feel you have been slapped in the face because new players can get something that affects your gameplay not at all. Get over it.

 

The real issue here, as others have noted, is that Bioware basically lies about this. The actual problem is that these time limited subs rewards are stupid, and get violated intentionally by Bioware all the time. They should stop that, and instead use something like Tsillah's idea.

 

In short: Rewarding subs? GREAT IDEA. Rewarding subs with time-limited content lockouts? Terrible idea that Bioware should regret every time they do it, because they eventually undo it anyway.

 

Predicting it now: They will release Nico at some point. And there will be rageposts.

Edited September 1, 2020 by stoopicus

[KendraP]

Except I dont feel I got slapped in the face because new playera got shae. In fact, im happy new players get shae, because new players are only good for the game.

 

I feel I got slapped in the face because I'm not getting anything because I already got this reward.

 

I.e. BW just assumes that because i have stayed subbed, I will always stay subbed.

[stoopicus]

Except I dont feel I got slapped in the face because new playera got shae. In fact, im happy new players get shae, because new players are only good for the game.

 

I feel I got slapped in the face because I'm not getting anything because I already got this reward.

 

I.e. BW just assumes that because i have stayed subbed, I will always stay subbed.

 

Yeah, I agree (and mentioned myself) that long term subs rewards of some kind are an excellent idea. I really like the ideas that you and Tsillah have mentioned (here and in other threads). Nothing wrong with rewarding subs. It's just that rewarding them with content lockouts is an exceptionally bad idea, especially when historically it's a lie anyway.

[Stradlin]

To me, permanent exclusivity in an MMO is always bad business.

 

It always eventually comes around to bite you in the ***.

 

Eh, I think sweeping declarations like these are kinda dangerous. In Ultima Online, big part of player economy is based around items that are so unique and so rare and so exclusive that people usually know how many copies of them, total, got created in the world and handed out to players. Equally unique events where such items drop always draw big crowds and electrify the community. Hunt for such items and you'll inevitably miss out on most of them. When you do score one though, it feels quite a bit more memorable than all of TOR's "exclusive but haha! - not really" - companions combined.

 

Of course, it shouldn't be some zero sum game: Besides items described above, Ultima Online has plenty of stuff best described as recurring sub rewards just as well. However, when I see a cake with some special color hue in Ultima Online saying " Happy 5th anniversary UIltima Online!"I can be damn sure this item spawned in 2002. Completely identical version of it is not respawned every single year via some xmas vendor or whatever.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Stradlin

[red_onion]

Is Bioware too tired to make new NPC's for companions rather then make new one's? This is an insult to veteran player's that already have her.

 

LMFAO... omg, an "insult," really??? You just happened to be subbed at some past point during the course of an entire month that she was an announced award. You really think that makes you special? Deserving of special treatment and preferences? I think you misconstrue a subscriber reward as something you actually earned rather than a gift to the community for being here and contributing financially.

 

Here's the thing... I totally support the idea of rewards for people who are subbed and remain subbed. If someone was subbed all of 2014, you get this thing; all of 2017, you get that thing. Subbed since launch? You get some other thing every five years or I don't know. I certainly don't object to such rewards (particularly if it's something slightly more basic like stronghold decos and flairs... strictly superficial items). But with Shae, you just happened to be subbed at the right time in the past; so what? Oh, but you're a "veteran." So no one else should have a chance to grab a companion that's an inherent part of the story and the best dps in game, simply because they weren't around last time she was offered?

 

By all means, ask for new and original companions; that's fair. But calling it an insult and referring to yourself as a veteran as if you deserve some special treatment just makes you look like a participation trophy loving elitist crybaby.

[AceMasterSoul]

The real issue here, as others have noted, is that Bioware basically lies about this. The actual problem is that these time limited subs rewards are stupid, and get violated intentionally by Bioware all the time. They should stop that, and instead use something like Tsillah's idea.

 

"Limited Time" and "One Time Only" are two different contractual promises. The ads I could dig up show BioWare specifically stating available for a limited time. If BioWare Offers an item that is available for 364/365 days that technically falls under the limited time definition. The promotion in question is being released a third time, with two-ish year between each release. This once again falls under the definition of limited time. Accusing them of lying/breaking their promise would be an overstep.

Edited September 2, 2020 by AceMasterSoul