Please get rid of level scaling.

[ReKabNad]

Level scaling undermines our entire progress, makes gearing up useless until 75, makes farming all the datacrons useless as the stats don't apply, forces a timesink on players with making content almost impossible to do with how gimped the stats are.

 

I went from level 10 with 4480hp hitting over 150 per hit to level 11 with 2000hp and barely 60 damage per hit.

It turns the game into a chore which is a big reason players are abandoning the game faster than ever.

 

Remove the scaling and you'll see players coming back in droves.

 

Take WoW for example, it's the most successful MMO ever. Never introduced forced level scaling.

 

Players don't like putting in effort, to be made weaker by stupid in game mechanics.

 

I agree 1,000%! I just started playing about 2 months ago, after playing DC Universe Online for 8-9 years. DCUO only scales levels to raise you UP to the level of the currently featured content. Otherwise, you run the content at your real level, which means that IF, as a solo player, you can get into the old content that nobody runs anymore, you can play it overleveled so you can still complete it. And this is as it should be.

 

I'll never be convinced that there's a good reason for NERFING our characters in most of the game's content. That's just insane. Rank & file Imps should NOT be getting the drop on me and defeating me!

Edited February 12, 2021 by ReKabNad

[ReKabNad]

My biggest issue with level scaling is how it homogenized all the old fps, all the rewards.

 

I mean any details and features of the loot tables were completely gutted and in their place was placed a predictable patterned loot table of non-descript, non-specialized loot items!

 

All the work that someone did, creating specialized items for each FP was summarily gutted and removed from the game.

 

The FPs once were fun to run just for rare and semi-rare weapons and armor sets, now it's just a bunch of cookie cutter items that are determined as rewards according to the level of the players in the FP.

 

I view this as neglectful, tbh. They literally did hundreds of hours of work to dismantle hundreds of hours of work, only to make the game less colorful, less enjoyable.

 

During this time they also removed many specialized vendors that sold low level orange moddable items, too, like some blasters that only could be bought on DK, or armor sets that were lvl 20, 40 that had unique appearances, why remove so many things that added flavor to the zone?

 

All of this is very upsetting to me as a newer player, especially as I'm discovering that the standard mods available from Vendors aren't nearly as good as the ones I can find in the marketplace. I'm now spending a bunch of money on mods from the Galactic Trade just to keep my characters alive longer.

[robertthebard]

All of this is very upsetting to me as a newer player, especially as I'm discovering that the standard mods available from Vendors aren't nearly as good as the ones I can find in the marketplace. I'm now spending a bunch of money on mods from the Galactic Trade just to keep my characters alive longer.

 

Take it with a few hundred grains of salt. Most of the issues listed weren't brought about by level scaling, but when they removed specific stats and replaced them with Mastery. It used to be that Agents/Smugglers had different main stats from Assassins and Shadows, for example. Now, for DPS specs they're all the same, which actually makes it easier to gear up. As for spending money on modifications, spend that money instead learning to craft, and make your own, especially for lower levels, you'll save a lot in the long run doing that.

[Warlocc]

At the risk of repeating others, I'll add my agreement with the OP;

 

The other day I one shot a member of the Dark Council, because of level scaling. It's broken and needs to be removed.

[Phazonfreak]

At the risk of repeating others, I'll add my agreement with the OP;

 

The other day I one shot a member of the Dark Council, because of level scaling. It's broken and needs to be removed.

 

Er, you didn't really read the reasons for the OP to be against level scaling, did you? He specifically wrote that he feels nerfed to the ground by level scaling and like combat has become too much of a chore. He and the others that agreed with him want to feel powerful and to be able to one shot enemies when their characters have become massively overleveled, so the complete opposite of what you are talking about here.

 

What you are referring to is exactly one of the reasons for wanting level scaling in this game and you stumbled upon an instance where it is not working as intended and needs to be fixed.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[SteveTheCynic]

I can tell you why:

 

So I'm running a little Jedi Tank Guardian up right now, and I'm level 56, on Voss. I hit the planet at 55. That's about 10 levels over the planet, meaning 0 xp per kill, and no drops. Any gear I'd get from quest completions would be useless to me, except to sell to a vendor. Of course, we could compound this issue by maybe this not being the first planet that a character is playing on that's the same way. Some of us remember those days pretty clearly, and don't want to go back to that situation, preferring instead to get credit for what we're doing, and maybe drop something we may be able to use.

Not quite. In Allods Online, if you're too far over-level, you do, indeed, get 0XP *and* no drops (except mission-linked stuff of the "kill ten rats and bring me the tails" type(1)). SWTOR still gave drops.

 

However, for over-level characters, those drops were pure vendor fodder (unless you had a different character who was at the planet's recommended level), whereas now they might be useful (except for characters above 65 and below 75 who get endless level 65 "outlander" gear).

 

And most SWTOR one-off missions even now give gear tied to the levels you were originally supposed to be at before 4.0.

 

(1) You get the tails, but no fur, teeth, claws, etc.)

[robertthebard]

Not quite. In Allods Online, if you're too far over-level, you do, indeed, get 0XP *and* no drops (except mission-linked stuff of the "kill ten rats and bring me the tails" type(1)). SWTOR still gave drops.

 

However, for over-level characters, those drops were pure vendor fodder (unless you had a different character who was at the planet's recommended level), whereas now they might be useful (except for characters above 65 and below 75 who get endless level 65 "outlander" gear).

 

And most SWTOR one-off missions even now give gear tied to the levels you were originally supposed to be at before 4.0.

 

(1) You get the tails, but no fur, teeth, claws, etc.)

 

I prefer the Outlander gear to level 45ish stuff, even if I vendor it, it's worth more. It's also easier to drive Conquest forward, because it's not 1 CP per kill. Rampage is all good and all, until you finish it for the day, and then it's just a slog, and not because it's hard, but because it's unrewarding.

[ReKabNad]

Take it with a few hundred grains of salt. Most of the issues listed weren't brought about by level scaling, but when they removed specific stats and replaced them with Mastery. It used to be that Agents/Smugglers had different main stats from Assassins and Shadows, for example. Now, for DPS specs they're all the same, which actually makes it easier to gear up. As for spending money on modifications, spend that money instead learning to craft, and make your own, especially for lower levels, you'll save a lot in the long run doing that.

 

That's actually next on my To Do List for the game. I need to find some good Crafting tutorials to go through. If there's any particular ones that you find especially helpful, I'd be grateful for links to them.

[robertthebard]

That's actually next on my To Do List for the game. I need to find some good Crafting tutorials to go through. If there's any particular ones that you find especially helpful, I'd be grateful for links to them.

 

I don't know of any, but I can give you a "cliff notes" version:

 

If you need tank armor, that's Resistive, you'll need an Armormech. I'd suggest Scavenging and Underworld Trading for your gatherers. For the other armor, you'll need Synthweaving, and I'd suggest Archaeology and I took slicing, because you'll need some of those mats for augments. Mods, enhancements and ear pieces are made by Cybertech. Again Scavenging and Underworld trading. Stims, medpacs and implants are made by BioChem. You'll need Bioanalysis and Investigation. Light saber hilts, and relics, are made by Artificers. You'll Archaeology and Treasure Hunting. Blaster barrels are made by Armstech. Scavenging and Underworld trading for gatherers. You'll also need someone with the Diplomacy gathering skill.

 

What I tend to do is put the main mat gather skills on the crafter that needs them, and then the rest of my alts fill in the gaps for mats. I have a lot of toons that can't craft anything, but have 700 gathering in three disciplines.

[xordevoreaux]

Level scaling undermines our entire progress

See suggestion here.

[EllieAnne]

The big problem** with level-scaling is that BW has never gotten the scaling right. Why are some stats hard capped and others are not? Bolster never seems to work well. Get yourself a level 50 companion to make up for some of the scaling and roll stomp a Heroic-2. Not only that but it locks people into playstyles. I always played my sage-healer by stacking power; sacrificing crit heals for sustained high healing. But now I need to stack crit 286 augments because stacking power with an iRating of 306 is worthless. And it is clear that they don't know how to do scaling (if it can be done properly at all) since I can still one-shot starter planets.

 

 

** Actually the big problem is that it exists. I have never been a fan of it and I've been around since Beta. It's used to excuse BW from putting out new endgame. I shouldn't be knocked off on a low-level planet and what's the point of being able to get XP on any planet when I'm at 75? If I want to one-shot tauntauns on Hoth then why shouldn't I be able to if I've earned the levels? A lot of the arguments at the time (that still exist) is because YOU don't want to play that way then NO ONE should be allowed to. And these Chicken Little stories of how gangs of high-level would go around creating swaths of death just to troll lowbies ... well it simply did not happen, at least on Harbinger.

[Luier]

Without level scaling = lower level planets are useless once out-leveled.

With level scaling = I don't feel like I got any stronger over time.

 

Both methods suck compared to the old SWG pre-cu method.

Everyone is top level from day 1 and only your skills, your gear, and weapons determine if you live or die.

No levels = no leveling.

[Confusi]

@Op, and the answer is NO level scaling is here to stay.

[KovaGilrissian]

I hate level scaling, it just kill progression and you never actually feel like a real powerful character, nonsense. I'm level 75 with the best 306 gear and stats for my class and role but still; I get killed in 1 minute by a level 17 world boss, absolutely ridiculous, it's totally pointless to level up and get the best gear. Edited December 1, 2021 by KovaGilrissian

[MystyqeofXev]

I hate level scaling, it just kill progression and you never actually feel like a real powerful character, nonsense. I'm level 75 with the best 306 gear and stats for my class and role but still; I get killed in 1 minute by a level 17 world boss, absolutely ridiculous, it's totally pointless to level up and get the best gear.

 

Well, if you listen to {NICHE CROWD} they * NEED / DESERVE * that best gear. However, somehow the SWTOR Devs did level-scaling right. (Not that I necessarily agree with the premise). Contrast that with WoW, where LS turns every zone into a slog. (then again they were more concerned with "time played" metrics)

 

Thankfully you can fly in WoW (that's a whole 'nuther thread).

 

The mental gymnastics of level-scaling are Olympic. 'I sit on the Dark Council, I lead an Alliance that rivals both factions, and....I just got killed by a combination of falling and three silver MOBs on DK'.

[Spikanor]

I hate level scaling, it just kill progression and you never actually feel like a real powerful character, nonsense. I'm level 75 with the best 306 gear and stats for my class and role but still; I get killed in 1 minute by a level 17 world boss, absolutely ridiculous, it's totally pointless to level up and get the best gear.

 

go read is all the post's on this thread first.

then you see a lot off reasons why level scaling is need.

and really people need to understand is good for once why planet level sync is needed before there cry on the forum that there hate it only for 1 small reason when there are a lot off big reasons why we need it in the first place.

 

and a lot off info can be found on this thread all and a lot off reasons also.

[MystyqeofXev]

Level Scaling + Conquest + Rewards have made the old zones alive again. Granted, a huge number seem to the same chuckleheads talking about Twilek feet, but it's their account.

 

What does it say however, that 10 year old content is more popular than any planet starting with an 'O'?

[Phazonfreak]

I hate level scaling, it just kill progression and you never actually feel like a real powerful character, nonsense. I'm level 75 with the best 306 gear and stats for my class and role but still; I get killed in 1 minute by a level 17 world boss, absolutely ridiculous, it's totally pointless to level up and get the best gear.

 

The reality is this: A small dev team that is only able to add new endgame content at an extremely slow pace is pretty much required to have Level Sync in order to keep the old content relevant for everyone. It is most certainly not the perfect solution with some major downsides to it, but preferable compared to having no Level Sync in this game and extremely limited options in what to do within your character's level range.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[robwettengel]

The only thing I'd like to see changed are the instanced encounters with folks who should be a challenge (Zash, Paladius, Skotia, Thanaton, Baras, etc.) not be subject to the sync. Such encounters are already instanced; if the sync could be removed for such instanced content (even as an option) that would be terrific.

[xordevoreaux]

The only thing I'd like to see changed are the instanced encounters with folks who should be a challenge (Zash, Paladius, Skotia, Thanaton, Baras, etc.) not be subject to the sync. Such encounters are already instanced; if the sync could be removed for such instanced content (even as an option) that would be terrific.

 

I believe you're assuming that without level sync in story boss fights that the player would be under level. I do not think that would commonly be the case. I dally around and don't get to my story missions in a single string. I'll level via heroics or something and come back to the story when I'm ready to do.

 

By then I may be way over-level. No sync in those boss fights would make zero sense at that point.

[xordevoreaux]

I'm going to unabashedly project here. We'll just get that out of the way right now.

 

The people wanting to do away with level sync just want to run through mobs with the greatest differential in power between themselves and the acres of mobs that they clear in mere seconds just for the kick in the head of seeing how destructive that they can be in one swipe.

 

Meanwhile, the people they just waltzed past who are at level now have to stand around for the mobs to respawn, and that's only if Mr. Destructo has finally gotten bored playing Cthulhu and moved on, especially when there's no other maps for the area in question to escape to.

Edited December 1, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[LordKitana]

Level scaling undermines our entire progress, makes gearing up useless until 75, makes farming all the datacrons useless as the stats don't apply, forces a timesink on players with making content almost impossible to do with how gimped the stats are.

 

I went from level 10 with 4480hp hitting over 150 per hit to level 11 with 2000hp and barely 60 damage per hit.

It turns the game into a chore which is a big reason players are abandoning the game faster than ever.

 

Remove the scaling and you'll see players coming back in droves.

 

Take WoW for example, it's the most successful MMO ever. Never introduced forced level scaling.

 

Players don't like putting in effort, to be made weaker by stupid in game mechanics.

 

At first I was against it but after while the game needs it , this game isnt like other big mmos .

[Nefla]

I would really love the option to turn it off and on. It's great to be able to do quests we've outleveled but still get proportional XP for them, but sometimes you just want to go back to an early planet and not have to worry about weak trash mobs knocking you off your speeder or wasting your time. I miss that from the early days.

[Pricia]

The game doesn't have enough high level content for level scaling to ever go away.

[ralphieceaser]

No thanks, you shouldnt be one shoting and deleting everything around you just because you are max level