Please get rid of level scaling.

[xordevoreaux]

Impying you are not max level by the time you go to your 3rd planet...

Making the old content annoying as it is now will make the new players feel baited

Personal opinion

It's so sad to see people that think this game is anything else than a relaxing side game. No true gamer that plays games for challange or gameplay experience plays this game.

 

Also personal opinion.

Edited September 25, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[xordevoreaux]

Why the F would high-level players need to group with lowbies and need rewards

Why must high-level characters who are setting aside their own time to help lower-level players not also enjoy some personal reward from it? Why not give both low and high level players rewards for playing together?

Edited September 25, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Achnaattwo]

why not just create a new low level character to help your low level friends ?

 

Level Scaling never bug me, that worked . . Level sync though, That is just working ridiculously bad . It does make it drag having sent back to planet your out level, and the fights take longer.

sure the first time there, still within planet level, fights were short and sweet, now you go back there because story sends you back,and now you're 10-30 levels over, and now this time you get killed, it's a What the Hell moment. It's not undoable, Now you just have to change how you pick your fight, instead of just kill kill kill who ever, didn't matter the order, when at level.

 

When before at level, it was just whack, whack, dead mob, now your over level it's whack, whack, kaboom, Whack, Pow dead mob, just dragging the fight that used to be quicker, doesn't make it better. It's just makes the gaming experience worse.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Achnaattwo

[xordevoreaux]

why not just create a new low level character to help your low level friends ?

1. Some people might be at their max slots and not care to buy another

2. People shouldn't be forced to play other than the way they want to play. If they want to help a level 10 with a level 80, their choice, and luckily the game doesn't currently punish them with zero rewards for doing so.

Edited September 25, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[SteveTheCynic]

Level Scaling never bug me, that worked . . Level sync though, That is just working ridiculously bad .

Except that SWTOR never had Level Scaling.(1) It was always Level Sync, right from when it was first introduced. What 7.0 did was change two things:

* Before, tertiary stats (Alac, Acc, Crit, Shield, Def, Absorb, Presence) were not capped. After, they were.

* Before, the specific effects of limiting the primary (Mastery) and secondary (Power, Endu) stats were less restricting.

 

Those things combined to make the effects of Level Sync more "punitive".

 

(1) GW2 has scaling - your stats from your gear are scaled down by how overlevel you were before being lowered, so highbies need to keep their gear up to date even if they are only playing in lowbie areas.

[Achnaattwo]

Except that SWTOR never had Level Scaling.(1) It was always Level Sync, right from when it was first introduced. What 7.0 did was change two things:

* Before, tertiary stats (Alac, Acc, Crit, Shield, Def, Absorb, Presence) were not capped. After, they were.

* Before, the specific effects of limiting the primary (Mastery) and secondary (Power, Endu) stats were less restricting.

 

Those things combined to make the effects of Level Sync more "punitive".

 

(1) GW2 has scaling - your stats from your gear are scaled down by how overlevel you were before being lowered, so highbies need to keep their gear up to date even if they are only playing in lowbie areas.

still level scaling never bother me

[Crystal_Mind]

Leaving aside the matter of cross-level groups, if every planet and its mobs were suddenly reverted to a non-synced state, consider what planetary content would be available for max-level toons.

 

The answer is Manaan Daily Area. That's it.

 

You would be outleveled for every other bit of planetary content. It would be utterly irrelevant to your experience. Mobs on lowbie planets would ignore you unless you literally walked through them (or at least that's how I recall outleveled mobs acting back in 2012-2013). You ever drop a scorch on those neutral resort-goers on Makeb? They evaporate. Hilarious the first couple times, but it gets boring.

 

So no, I am emphatically against the removal of level sync.

 

Related to some complaints in this thread: I have a couple leveling alts I pulled out this week. They're 3-5 levels over planet sync, and I've experienced no issues at all; I don't perceive any 'slog' and I've yet to come anywhere near dying in story content. People who say combat takes too long -- what do you actually want? To oneshot your way through planets with your basic attack?

[Achnaattwo]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:00 AM, Crystal_Mind said:

Leaving aside the matter of cross-level groups, if every planet and its mobs were suddenly reverted to a non-synced state, consider what planetary content would be available for max-level toons.

 

The answer is Manaan Daily Area. That's it.

 

You would be outleveled for every other bit of planetary content. It would be utterly irrelevant to your experience. Mobs on lowbie planets would ignore you unless you literally walked through them (or at least that's how I recall outleveled mobs acting back in 2012-2013). You ever drop a scorch on those neutral resort-goers on Makeb? They evaporate. Hilarious the first couple times, but it gets boring.

 

So no, I am emphatically against the removal of level sync.

 

Related to some complaints in this thread: I have a couple leveling alts I pulled out this week. They're 3-5 levels over planet sync, and I've experienced no issues at all; I don't perceive any 'slog' and I've yet to come anywhere near dying in story content. People who say combat takes too long -- what do you actually want? To oneshot your way through planets with your basic attack?

congratulations, you were immerse so much you didn't even notice it taking longer then before 👍

 

doing  less damage, just means it will require more strikes, more strikes adds time, more time . . takes longer.

so yeah it does slow the gaming experience.

oneshot as you call it, happens when you're fighting trash mobs, at planet level,  takes more then one hit for the Strong, and more for elites and champions.  When you are over level, trash mobs still hit week, as they always do, still no real threat, but taking trash out, are more like fighting strong or elites, and elites  are  like taking  down champions.

If  being level sync down to max level planet . . that wouldn't happen. Like I said I don't mind be level scaled. wouldn't mind level sync either , if my stats were what it would be if  max level of the planet.  The way Level sync is now, is just bad 

It feels better to see misses, because you're under level then a bunch of hits that drag the fight on longer . . now that's boring

[GothielDark]

On 9/26/2022 at 1:26 AM, xordevoreaux said:

1. Some people might be at their max slots and not care to buy another

2. People shouldn't be forced to play other than the way they want to play. If they want to help a level 10 with a level 80, their choice, and luckily the game doesn't currently punish them with zero rewards for doing so.

Personal opinion.

Also, you can still receive scaling rewards. But pummeling mobs with 3 skills for 5 minutes is not gameplay. Can't do flashpoints when you want forced group content with scaled gear?

[SteveTheCynic]

4 hours ago, GothielDark said:

Personal opinion.

Also, you can still receive scaling rewards. But pummeling mobs with 3 skills for 5 minutes is not gameplay. Can't do flashpoints when you want forced group content with scaled gear?

This reminds me of the endless complaining about Level Sync before it was ever released, back before 4.0.  You know, when people railed on about how LS would make it so top tier max level Überdarth Megapower in max gear would be slaughtered by K'lor Slugs on Korriban.

It never happened.

EDIT: sorry: Übërdärth Mëgäpöwër.  I'm in a metal mood tonight.

Edited October 1, 2022 by SteveTheCynic

[xordevoreaux]

5 hours ago, GothielDark said:

Personal opinion.

Let's parse.

Quote

Some people might be at their max slots and not care to buy another.

I do not care to buy additional slots upon reaching max.  That is a fact, not opinion.

Quote

2. People shouldn't be forced to play other than the way they want to play. If they want to help a level 10 with a level 80, their choice, and luckily the game doesn't currently punish them with zero rewards for doing so.

Correct. This is opinion. 

An opinion anyone holds other than the above:
shouldn't be forced to play other than the way they want to play is a scary alternative indeed, because the only option left is the opposite:

people must be forced to play the way that someone else dictates

Who would that be? You?

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[EllieAnne]

Two questions that the pro-level-sync crowd still refuses to answer:

Oh, but you get rewards when doing the lower level planets.  Do you really think the rewards we get killing flesh-raiders or running missions on Tatooine are really worth it?  How many billions does a level 80 have and you think that $1500 in credits and grey item is more than a blip in my revenue stream?  And at level 80 I don't need to be getting XP on Makeb.

 

It's meaningful to run the lower level content.  Just how many times does someone want to run Alderaan or Hoth or Voss?  Do you seriously not find it boring doing Balmorra for the 100th time?

[Jdast]

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

Two questions that the pro-level-sync crowd still refuses to answer:

Oh, but you get rewards when doing the lower level planets.  Do you really think the rewards we get killing flesh-raiders or running missions on Tatooine are really worth it?  How many billions does a level 80 have and you think that $1500 in credits and grey item is more than a blip in my revenue stream?  And at level 80 I don't need to be getting XP on Makeb.

 

It's meaningful to run the lower level content.  Just how many times does someone want to run Alderaan or Hoth or Voss?  Do you seriously not find it boring doing Balmorra for the 100th time?

Your question has been answered. Multiple times. There is a reason every single major MMORPG has some form of level sync/scaling. Gaming companies simply can't produce content fast enough. It really is that simple. 

I enjoy visiting different planets for no other reason than the change of scenery. I also enjoy getting rewarded for it, even if it is just Conquest Points. I may only visit Tatooine once every couple weeks, but I enjoy doing it.

I concur with others that the current system has not been implemented well, as Bioware has acknowledged themselves. Hopefully more adjustments are coming. 

But I guarantee you, as has been pointed out in this thread, if the only thing to do was Manaan dailies I would quit in a day.

Dasty

[xordevoreaux]

15 hours ago, EllieAnne said:

Do you really think the rewards we get killing flesh-raiders or running missions on Tatooine are really worth it?

Your question pointedly ignores conquest, and personally, I feel conquest objectives are worth it.

Conquest points are conquest points, and I get the same amount of conquest points whether the planetary rampage conquest objective is Tython, Tatooine, Dantooine, or anywhere else.

[EllieAnne]

Except I'd  get the conquest points for killing 50 nexu regardless of if there is level sync or not.

[Plactus]

3 minutes ago, EllieAnne said:

Except I'd  get the conquest points for killing 50 nexu regardless of if there is level sync or not.

Why would you assume they'd leave in the ability to get conquest points for defeating enemies far below your level?

[Rion_Starkiller]

On 8/14/2020 at 3:04 AM, merovejec said:

This game has so little content being added that it really needs level scaling or otherwise the players will not have anything to do!

^The first reply sums up this entire thread. 

 

 

How I imagine Keith going to his corporate EA overlords for funding:

 

Keith: ::goes to BWA meeting room and begins Zoom call to EA::  "So it's going to be SWTOR's 10-year anniversary, and I would like procure $X in funding for..."

EA Overlord: "Wait, what? 10 years? Wow that's an old game! I can't believe SWTOR is still around."

Keith: "Yeah, so uh-"

EA Overlord:   ::goes into long speech using corporate-speak keywords such as "business critical ask" and "low-hanging fruit" and "leverage x,y,z" and "key-learnings."::

 

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, EllieAnne said:

Except I'd  get the conquest points for killing 50 nexu regardless of if there is level sync or not.

Actually, no, and I can prove it to you.

Hop on a toon higher than level 17 to Coruscant to the Old Galactic Market. Find hostiles (or targetable yellow NPCs) at level 9.  Kill them. Your rampage count will not increase because they're gray to you. If you're on Taris at level 80, and level sync no longer exists, you will NOT get rampage points for killing those 50 nexu.

Edited October 4, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Addictress]

I'm not too familiar with MMOs but it sounds like if Level Sync went away, Alderaan, my favorite planet ever, would be too easy for my characters once I levelled up.

 

I would want this....why?

 

I want to go back to Alderaan again and again, even on my level 80 characters, and not be a bored god there....

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, Addictress said:

I would want this....why?

People complain that level sync makes things harder, which hasn't been my experience at all.

I suspect people ardently complaining on the forums about level sync invoke faux difficulty as a smoke screen to obscure what they really want, which is to level acres of mobs in a single flash just for the kill thrill, and level sync slows down their fun.

[EllieAnne]

On 10/3/2022 at 12:23 PM, Jdast said:

Your question has been answered. Multiple times. There is a reason every single major MMORPG has some form of level sync/scaling. Gaming companies simply can't produce content fast enough. It really is that simple. 

Not it hasn't.  no one that I've seen has specifically answered my questions.  Like you they are just apologists for level-syncing and "answer" the questions by excusing them for not producing new content.

[EllieAnne]

On 10/4/2022 at 9:34 AM, Plactus said:

Why would you assume they'd leave in the ability to get conquest points for defeating enemies far below your level?

Because they have different conquest objectives for different levels so the assumption is the CQ objective would be Kill 50 <animals appropriate to your real level>.

[Jdast]

39 minutes ago, EllieAnne said:

Not it hasn't.  no one that I've seen has specifically answered my questions.  Like you they are just apologists for level-syncing and "answer" the questions by excusing them for not producing new content.

Xor, Crystal, I, and others have answered your questions. You just don't like the answers.

1) We do feel the rewards are worth it. We get Conquest Points, Daily Resource Matrices, Tech Fragments, and credits. Sure, we may be level 80 and get no XP, but the other rewards more than make it worthwhile.

2) As I said in my original reply to you, "I enjoy the change of scenery." So, to be more specific...do I want to go to Balmorra 100 times in a row? No, of course not. That's why I said I enjoy rotating which planets I go to.

3) Under the system you propose, players would only be going to Manaan for months on end, which would certainly cause me to quit. Forgive the cliche, but variety is the spice of life in a galaxy far, far away. 

No one is forcing you to go to lower level planets. If you want to spend the next few months on Manaan, no one is stopping you. Have at it!

Would I love it if Bioware produced dozens of new planets such that level scaling or sync was unnecessary? Of course, but that is totally unrealistic. As I noted earlier...

Every single major MMORPG has some form of level scaling or sync. Why? Because not even FFXIV, ESO, or WoW can produce new planets, zones, dungeons, etc., fast enough. You simply refuse to accept the reality of the industry.

Dasty

Edit: Missed a word!

Edited October 6, 2022 by Jdast

[Nee-Elder]

12 minutes ago, Jdast said:

Every single major MMORPG has some form of level scaling or sync.

Pre-cu SWG didn't.  And that's why, imho, it's still the best MMO  ever and always will be.

Instead of  standard linear  "levels" , original SWG buried the level-number  behind  the code (for internal organizational purposes) and had players rely & recognize  only  stats & skills of each mob/enemy.

A far superior (and more interesting) system imo,  particularly since it gave the individual  species & types of mobs  a certain uniqueness;  which also served to make most exterior encounters in the wilds  FEEL more realistic & dynamic  as the player progressed themself.

So, for example, a weak  'womp-rat'  might seem rather tough to fight upon first starting out on Tatooine as a newbie just learning the game and figuring out  the best stats/skills per your combat profession (aka 'Class' ) .  But later on, after you had mastered your profession/weapon, those same womp-rats became super easy/fast to kill (as they should)  yet still providing at least some XP to make fight worthwhile but not  exploitative.

This type of more complex system also made certain PLANETS  feel more dangerous , or certain areas feel more treacherous.   Mustafar, for example, should (imo) yield far more danger (overall) that say Naboo.

Unfortunately, WoW ruined everything and rather than making subtle tweaks & trims, SOE totally abandoned their core/pure principals out of fear.  Hence the 'CU' was born first, using basic linear "Level 1-80", and after that came the dreaded 'NGE-1' and eventual somewhat more tolerable 'NGE-2'. (both based in linear levels)

SWTOR, originally back in alpha & beta,  was sort of a hybrid between both systems.  This made the game & combat really fun to play, since  yes there was obvious  1-2-3  linear vertical-progression levels, but at the same time we also had clear focus on stats & skills (including an eventual  horizontal-progression type 'skill tree' ) .  Apparently, that type of hybrid was too difficult to code, learn, & maintain.

Consequently, as  developers became less imaginative and more re$tricted (by corporatEA) , SWTOR had to adopt 'level sync'  full force.....no matter how homogenized  it would make the game.  Not to mention the detrimental effect it has on players, who now mostly only pay attention to LEVEL  rather than focusing on SKILL (re: learning your Class , learning  boss fights, learning group  tactics,  etc. etc. ) .

So what does BioWare do?  What else can they do, other than try to keep refining level-sync & bolster?  They're stuck now.  And so are we.   Choice really boils down to: adapt or un-sub.

[DreadtechSavant]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:04 AM, merovejec said:

The level scaling needs to stay in order to make the game playable. We had a time when people were level 60 and were oneshoting world bosses and even soloing or duoing old NiM operations. This game has so little content being added that it really needs level scaling or otherwise the players will not have anything to do!

 

Imagine how easy heroics would be, the old story stuff like Star Fortress or the KOTFE and KOTET (which is level 60 content) at level 75. Everything would become irrelevant. The achievements would become pointless (like doing KOTFE at Master level would be no problem since its level 60 and you would be level 75). So the game cannot go without this.

 

You are wrong when saying WoW does not have this. I am not a WoW player, but we did start playing WoW when Legion came out and Swtor was in maintanance mode, but we have witnessed level sync even there. They have started implementing it into new content.

No, it really does not. level scaling adds nothing to the game. The only thing it stopped was soloing WB's and that's it. That has already been changed as the WB respawn time is what 5 mins now? So even if players did solo it now when no one else is there, BIG DEAL. What has it taken away from anyone? nothing. 

You can solo all low-end planets as a 80 or 10-20-30-40-50-60-70 level exactly the same, it may take what 1 maybe 2 mins longer as a none 70-80 level? Level makes zero difference in that regard. What level sync took away from solo players was what has taken so much content from the game for them, not what it added for group players, as it added nothing.

I don't ever remember players claiming they were soloing NiM Op's as you claim. Not to mention that would be a issue with the operation not the level of the player even it that was the case.