Please get rid of level scaling.

[xordevoreaux]

I heard stories of the old time when high level players can kill every npc in the enemy base and they do it for fun and to see low level/new level players shocked and lost.

 

I also don't want to do Heroics on DK with my new toon and some lv75 player just wipe everything on the map in 10 sec because it's "fun" to troll newbies.

 

Level sync is the better option without a more complicated balance system like the thing they did for the Rakghoul event where the trash/bosses are level sync to the player that probably needs a lot of coding.

 

That's basically my contention, and I've stated it many times. I resented as a lowbie the high-levels coming into a lowby zone and absconding with every mob I needed to kill, then I'm standing there wondering how long it'll be before the jerk stops killing respawns and leaves.

[chosonman]

...and in real life one does not just face roll their old foes after gaining new knowledge. Just keeping it real.

[xordevoreaux]

...and in real life one does not just face roll their old foes after gaining new knowledge. Just keeping it real.

 

Hopefully in real life you're in prison for having dropped those mobs. Just keeping it real.

Edited January 25, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[chosonman]

...and if you have lvl 75 fully augmented set gear and tacticals and a lvl 50 influence comp. There's no reasons you shouldn't be able to face roll any low level content in the game.

[xordevoreaux]

Level scaling undermines our entire progress, makes gearing up useless until 75

Gear is useless regardless of level scaling. You don't have to be at planet max to wade through mobs on a planet just fine in green gear.

 

makes farming all the datacrons useless as the stats don't apply

Conflation. Stats from datacrons are no different than stats from gear, and stats from buffs. Mentioning datacrons in an of themselves means nothing.

 

forces a timesink on players with making content almost impossible to do with how gimped the stats are.

People wearing green gear say content is too easy, so no, not true. Your gimped (capped) stats aren't stopping you for doing squat, which is why complaints are things are too easy .... get ready for it.... even with level capping.

Toss level caps, life would be even easier, because then your main stats would come into play.

 

 

I went from level 10 with 4480hp hitting over 150 per hit to level 11 with 2000hp and barely 60 damage per hit.

And still killed the crap out of everything. The loss of that HP didn't gimp you at all, because what you're fighting didn't need all those uber stats.

 

It turns the game into a chore

Killing a circle of five mobs with 100,000 DPS still requires the chore of activating your Death From Above ability as when your DPS is 100. The clicks are the same. The true chore would be if you needed 1,000 clicks to kill a mob because your DPS is 1/1000th what it would be if not capped. But that is not the case.

 

which is a big reason players are abandoning the game faster than ever.

Please share EA's proprietary subscription and login data with us so we can see that for ourselves.

 

Remove the scaling and you'll see players coming back in droves.

Nice, if empty, try at enticing the devs, but patently false. As people have mentioned, other games also have level capping. Players contend, not that I agree with them in the way that they put it, that the game needs (as the content locusts who swoop down whenever something new is released and then fly away gain when they burn out on it) more content. They contend there's not enough content despite hundreds of hours of content in the game. That would be their attraction. Not that they're suddenly not capped at 55 or whatever on Illum on a level 60 toon.

 

Players don't like putting in effort, to be made weaker by stupid in game mechanics.

Again, a false statement. Players made weaker doesn't mean they're made so weak as to not be able to clobber level 10 mobs with level 10 stats and their level 75 abilities, which do not go away in this game's level capping schema. You see yourself as being made weaker. You're being made appropriate for the content you're fighting.

 

For all of the points that you make, you avoid the real one: that you simply want to wade through mobs, glorying in how destructive you can be in doing so, which has nothing to do with actually making them dead. You can do that level capped.

Edited January 25, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[DarkTergon]

G

 

People wearing green gear say content is too easy, so no, not true. Your gimped (capped) stats aren't stopping you for doing squat, which is why complaints are things are too easy .... get ready for it.... even with level capping.

Toss level caps, life would be even easier, because then your main stats would come into play.

 

 

I agree with what you say, but this is the most important, with no level sync, everything will be even easier, and we'd have even more complaints

 

 

Edit.... I always have a good chuckle at those that say they play the game, or have always been here, etc, then try and say the game is dying, or people are leaving in scores. I play mostly off peak on the US servers, on SF, and even then it's busy, lately when on korriban, there's always a minimum of 3 instances, mostly more, and they are nearly always full., same goes for the other starter planet. And lets no forget how crowded planets get when events are on.

Edited January 25, 2021 by DarkTergon

[xordevoreaux]

I agree with what you say, but this is the most important, with no level sync, everything will be even easier, and we'd have even more complaints

 

True.

[DragonSire]

As I don't really play other MMO's, I'm not sure I get what you are saying. Are you saying, a level 10 & 75 can walk in to an area, and fight the same wb, do the same damage, and take the same damage? Are they scaled equally, so they have the same hit points, etc?

 

It's fairly straight forward. Your character still functions exactly like it does at whatever level, but damage received / inflicted is scaled based on your level and it's real level.

 

So if WORLD BOSS is level 50 (hidden) and your 75, your damage scales to 50 and it damages you at 75. (+/- 1 or 2 levels)

if your 10 than you do damage as if you were 50 (-1 or -2 levels) and it damages you at level 10 (+/- 1 or 2 levels)

[Senteliks]

...and if you have lvl 75 fully augmented set gear and tacticals and a lvl 50 influence comp. There's no reasons you shouldn't be able to face roll any low level content in the game.

 

You are really bitter person aren't you

[SlthBounteHuntah]

Sorry, but i really don't understand. How easy do you all want this game to be? Right now, every single trash group (5 weak enemies) die within one attack you do. One attack. Do you really suggest, that pressing one attack is too much? What the hell are you all doing, that you have so much problems, that you demand further nerfs? You literally can't nerf the content more. One attack. You can't do less. Do you want empty planets? No enemies at all? You guys should all start streaming or something. I NEED to see, what you are doing. I can't sleep, if i don't get this information.

 

What is wrong with you?

 

That's why I suggested it be an option. Sometimes I want to get to a location without fighting random groups of enemies along the way, so I would turn it on. Sometimes I do like to fight enemies for more than one second, so I would turn it off. It doesn't really matter if it is on or off though, my Sorcerer just decimates all of the poor NPCs that get in her way anyway. I just don't think there is a problem with options you can toggle.

[Phazonfreak]

That's why I suggested it be an option. Sometimes I want to get to a location without fighting random groups of enemies along the way, so I would turn it on. Sometimes I do like to fight enemies for more than one second, so I would turn it off. It doesn't really matter if it is on or off though, my Sorcerer just decimates all of the poor NPCs that get in her way anyway. I just don't think there is a problem with options you can toggle.

 

Actually, there is a big problem with adding a toggle like that, at least when it comes to enemies in the open world that other players are fighting over at the same time. We had a similar situation when there was still PvP flagging in the game. Enemy players would abuse that system and intentionally stand inside the aoe attacks of lower level players to flag them for PvP and insta kill them. Bad times, unless you enjoyed griefing other players like that.

 

A difficulty setting could be implemented for all the instanced story content like they did for KOTFE and KOTET. I would really like to do instanced Heroics and Story missions in master mode that require a group to complete, but even that would be difficult to balance.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Spikanor]

What is wrong with you?

 

That's why I suggested it be an option. Sometimes I want to get to a location without fighting random groups of enemies along the way, so I would turn it on. Sometimes I do like to fight enemies for more than one second, so I would turn it off. It doesn't really matter if it is on or off though, my Sorcerer just decimates all of the poor NPCs that get in her way anyway. I just don't think there is a problem with options you can toggle.

 

there is a problem with the options you can toggle.

and the problems you get has been told all on this thread all.

 

that you get players that will kill all the monsters in the area will others can do notting against it will there need it for there quest.

then you get also that some use the option toggle idea to kill npc's from the other side what also has done.

 

what maybe good is if that idea from the options to turn it on and off only can be done in the PVP instance that only there you can turn it on or off that is something where it good for is but for a non pvp instance is it not working since its only getting worse again.

but if that will happing only for the PVP instance thats something else but i think it will never come.

[DarkTergon]

If you take the rakghoul tunnels of an example with multi scaled enemies, a 75 can agro a mob, drag it over to a group of 50's, cloak and watch the mob then kill the lowers levels. Or even do the same with the heroic area, when lower level groups are fighting, bring over the big guys, and wipe them.

 

Imagine that happening on Korriban or any starting world....

Edited January 26, 2021 by DarkTergon

[dipstik]

i would be happy with them just doing the operations at max level and having planets be synced

[Spikanor]

i would be happy with them just doing the operations at max level and having planets be synced

 

and what about the renown points then since you cant get any renown points then if you remove the level sync system from all the operations then is it more worthless more.

or in a lot off case with lvl 70 operations you get then only less then with level sync on.

 

and then its more worthless since you get then almost no renown points more and thats more destroying the operations more for a lot off people since there get almost no renown points more.

 

so in the end its also worthless so that means the level sync system need to stay on and cant be remove.

[KendraP]

and what about the renown points then since you cant get any renown points then if you remove the level sync system from all the operations then is it more worthless more.

or in a lot off case with lvl 70 operations you get then only less then with level sync on.

 

and then its more worthless since you get then almost no renown points more and thats more destroying the operations more for a lot off people since there get almost no renown points more.

 

so in the end its also worthless so that means the level sync system need to stay on and cant be remove.

 

 

If I understand dipstik, he wants what I do with the operations all scaled to 75, thus creating a max level endgame.

 

How does that have anything to do with renown? You're a level 75 running what would be level 75 content.

 

What i don't understand is you. Could you perhaps rephrase using fewer run on sentences? Like, your first sentence is giving me a headache trying to scramble it into an intelligible structure. (See what I did there?) Seriously, "more worthless more?"

 

I think you're interpreting dipstik's suggestion as not downscaling players, when he's suggesting upscaling the operations themselves.

Edited January 27, 2021 by KendraP

[Spikanor]

If I understand dipstik, he wants what I do with the operations all scaled to 75, thus creating a max level endgame.

 

How does that have anything to do with renown? You're a level 75 running what would be level 75 content.

 

What i don't understand is you. Could you perhaps rephrase using fewer run on sentences? Like, your first sentence is giving me a headache trying to scramble it into an intelligible structure. (See what I did there?) Seriously, "more worthless more?"

 

I think you're interpreting dipstik's suggestion as not downscaling players, when he's suggesting upscaling the operations themselves.

 

first off all: he has not told what for level there most be so that means it can also be lower level then 75.

 

and seccond off all: if he wane chance it then to max level what about the players that never have buy any sub for 2 month's or longer so that there max level is more 65 and wane do operations what about then since there cant do it then since its more max level then.

 

and i not gone repeat my self but i will do it one more time: the level scaling system will never be gone or there never gone chance it since its been ask all since day one that players hate it and thats 6 years ago in 2015.

all the idea's there are have been ask all in 2015.

if you use the search option and put leven sync you see people ask for: turn off and on option.

not wane count it for flashpoints,operations or heroic's or companions quest.

that has been ask all 6 years ago and its still not has happing so why you think its gone happing now that its a great idea will its been ask 6 years ago all and still notting has been done with it.

 

the point is all the idea's about remove level sync or chance it have been ask all 6 years ago and notting has chance so the point is more the chance that bioware is gone do something with it is 0% with any idea's about the level sync.

 

so the point off keeping this thread more active is more useless since its never gone happing since its all been ask all since day one off the level sync system to remove it off some parts off the game and 6 years later its still the same so the idea's about it are notting more and will never gone happing thats the true.

[KendraP]

Dipstick said

i would be happy with them just doing the operations at max level and having planets be synced

 

Max level is 75. Ergo its safe to assume he wants operations at 75 and planets left the way they are; which is what I want too, and how the game was from whenever they started scaling old ops (3.0? I don't remember its been so long) to 6.0.

 

FTP players are locked from operations, so they're irrelevant to this point. You want to talk about them, talk about bringing ops passes back.

 

I don't believe dipstick is, nor am I, suggesting removing level sync. I merely want operations at max level (which to clarify is 75).

 

As for the rest I'm back to having no clue what you're trying to say. Seriously, Google translate might be a huge help. What does "wane" mean in this context? Please learn the difference between "of" and "off", and how many "more"s belong in a sentence. Knowing the function of a period and what a run on sentence is would not go amiss either.

Edited January 27, 2021 by KendraP

[dipstik]

not gunna try to understand that gibberish but to clarify... all veteran mode and master mode operations should be max level (which is currently 75). When the level cap increases, so should the vet and mm ops. I dont care if i get scaled down for old story mode content (or whatever the proper verb is since there seem to be some picky people in here).

 

During the 6.0 PTS I offered plenty of options for doing scaling in a way that would not make 99% of content and gear useless, but they did not listen, and they asked for feedback too late I think. For example, using the veteran stacks as a scalar and not a cap would be the most simple solution. of course the scalar is capped to some percentage (say 70% of power) but when you pop a power adrenal you still get 70% of that power, not none. But this is a bandaid on the even worse decision to not bring the ops up to level cap.

 

Them scaling the uprising to max level makes me think they will be correcting this wrong in the near future.

[jedimasterjac]

Them scaling the uprising to max level makes me think they will be correcting this wrong in the near future.

 

Or at least testing the waters.

[Spikanor]

During the 6.0 PTS I offered plenty of options for doing scaling in a way that would not make 99% of content and gear useless, but they did not listen, and they asked for feedback too late I think.

 

you have give then feedback about it and thats good but you most understand also good that its bioware's call to make if there wane do something with it.

and in this case there not wane do it so it has no point for keep asking for it since there not gone do it.

 

for 6 years long people have been asking to chance the level sync system and non off the idea's has been done to chance it.

the point is now more we all have to deal with the level sync system we have now since there not gone chance it.

[KendraP]

not gunna try to understand that gibberish but to clarify... all veteran mode and master mode operations should be max level (which is currently 75). When the level cap increases, so should the vet and mm ops. I dont care if i get scaled down for old story mode content (or whatever the proper verb is since there seem to be some picky people in here).

 

But this is a bandaid on the even worse decision to not bring the ops up to level cap.

 

I agree with you here, except I also believe SM ops need scaling. Actual story/solo content, whatever. But endgame group content should be max level. Forgive me if the grammar police was too strong; that was never directed to you, but to the person (ironically enough) trying to say you were vague.

 

Them scaling the uprising to max level makes me think they will be correcting this wrong in the near future.

 

I'm worried about this, honestly. I'm concerned that, if the rescaling of the uprisings doesn't get enough people to participate in them, BW will simply dismiss us as malcontents that can't be made happy. (To be fair, this assumption is probably not far off in my case. I'm very dissatisfied with my experience in swtor, and with what BWs priorities seem to be more generally). This could (would) lead BW to choose to not raise FP or ops.

[KendraP]

you have give then feedback about it and thats good but you most understand also good that its bioware's call to make if there wane do something with it.

and in this case there not wane do it so it has no point for keep asking for it since there not gone do it.

 

for 6 years long people have been asking to chance the level sync system and non off the idea's has been done to chance it.

the point is now more we all have to deal with the level sync system we have now since there not gone chance it.

 

Where are you getting 6 years? What dipstik is asking to change was implemented in 6.0, a bit over a year ago in 2019. We are not talking about the older planetary level sync, but endgame group content!!! Did I emphasize that enough yet?

 

Still wondering what "wane" means. I'm accustomed to it meaning decreasing or becoming smaller (i.e. a waning moon). I'm assuming gone = going and that you used the wrong "they're" (i.e. over there as opposed to they are).

 

Assuming those corrections are accurate, and as to what BW may or may not do, who made you an expert?

[mike_carton]

I'm concerned that, if the rescaling of the uprisings doesn't get enough people to participate in them, ...

As it is few people do Uprisings. The matter is not helped by the absence of MM Uprisings in group finder. BW always seems to take the wrong lesson from things like this; instead of adding MM to GF and just improving the rewards of Uprisings (*), they decided to increase the rewards a bit and make them more challenging. I certainly expect the participation to fall even further. (Is they any further to fall, when it comes to today's participation in Uprisings?)

 

(*) Not to mention reviewing some of the issues with the Uprisings, especially the second set of 5.

Edited January 27, 2021 by mike_carton

[KendraP]

As it is few people do Uprisings. The matter is not helped by the absence of MM Uprisings in group finder. BW always seems to take the wrong lesson from things like this; instead of adding MM to GF and just improving the rewards of Uprisings (*), they decided to increase the rewards a bit and make them more challenging. I certainly expect the participation to fall even further. (Is they any further to fall, when it comes to today's participation in Uprisings?)

 

(*) Not to mention reviewing some of the issues with the Uprisings, especially the second set of 5.

 

Which is all the more reason to have my concern. Assuming people just basically ignore these changes (which I plan to, personally), will BW be able to figure out why I'm ignoring them? Or will they see it as a wasted attempt to do what I wanted, and thus, not do what I actually want.