@LFG tool haterz

[Nevur]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

[gangbot]

I have formed groups from general chat that dont even speak during the instance. Its not the LFG tool that makes people anti-social, its the players themselves.

[Elyons]

Ah, look at it this way. How many friends have you made in a local party you joined, and how many friends have you made in a warzone.

 

 

 

Option one for me: 10

 

Option two for me: None

 

Still though, the only thing I don't want is a cross sever LFG system. A local one would be fine

Edited December 30, 2011 by Elyons

[Sangnz]

Not many people hating on LFG just LFD.

 

People don't want something where you press a button the game automagically matches you up with total strangers who are normally all from different servers that you will never see or talk too again, who you will barely speak with during the run.

[AdmiralOnasi]

I think most people would agree that it needs to become easier to meet people for Flashpoints and Heroic Missions. What those of us in the "Anti-LFG" camp don't want is queuing for Flashpoints the same way you queue for warzones.

[Moonian]

I am in the pro LFG tool and think it is the people that are anti-social and not the tool that makes them so.

[Aeonium]

I'm neutral on the matter.

 

I do feel there should be some tool to find people who are looking for a group more easy.

 

But, if they implement this, then they should not make it cross server and no instant teleport to the chosen "dungeon".

[Seablade]

i dont have a problem with them one adding one but i never had trouble finding a group as it is

[Halacs]

Server only, im all for it.

Spaming in LFG channel does not build community. If you have to group with people on your own server then you can still be held accountable and develop a bad rep.

 

Still want folks to have to travel to the instance mind you. Getting ported would make the "world" feel small IMO. It's 5 mins to a shuttle most times.

 

Cross server is what help make people such loot fiends and jerks in general, in other MMO's that is.

[Taroen]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

This post illustrates the problem. Pro-LFD people only see two options...

 

1. LFD tool.

2. Spam General.

 

It never occurs to them to join a guild or actually talk to people and make friends.

 

Sorry, but I don't want this to turn into a lobby game with people just standing around waiting for their instance to pop so they can mindlessly rush in to break their loot pinata and get their freebie epics.

 

That's what WoW has become, and I will never play that game again. Go there if that's what you want.

[Deavyin]

I am both pro-LFG AND Pro-LFD because nothing is more annoying than spamming (and it really is spam) /1 with LFG DPS PST over and over again. If someone else just happens to be in the same zone, looking for the same heroic or flashpoint AND they write something in chat I have to make sure I don't miss it or I have to constantly scroll up in chat between questing to make sure I haven't.

 

Now, to address all the naysayers and their, imo, baseless arguments against a LFG and LFD system.

 

1. it destroys the community. I honestly do not see where people are coming from when they say this (and I too have seen this argument used many times on these forums). The VAST majority of random pick up groups I am in (whether it be heroics or flashpoints) hardly speak to one another, get together just for that mission, say "GG" or "thanks for group" and depart. I have been playing MMO's for years and the only times I make friends from random groups is when i'm drunk and feeling chatty. I'll wax poetic, make people lol (or so they are saying, i'm always curious to whether they are actually laughing at half the crap I say) and I manage to get them out of their shell and actually chat a bit. Other than that, I usually make friends via my guild or from random discussions in /1 general chat. Hell, it's called general chat for a reason and it's NOT "general spamming of LFG chat". It's a place for people to converse so we have someone to talk to while we solo through our class quests.

 

2. WoW's LFD pairs your up with random people from other servers who you will never speak to nor see again. This is true. There are times when I meet someone that I find hilarious while raiding in WoW and I ask what server they are on. I find out they aren't on the same server as me and it's like a summer camp crush. We had our fun together and now we have to go home to our respective servers. Maybe we'll see each other again kid...but probably not...we have our own lives to live in azeroth. Still, there are ALSO plenty of times when I have like 2 hours max and I don't want to spend half of that time trying to find a group for a raid. I'd prefer to just get in, quest, get my **** and get out. That is why I suggest this: as part of the LFD tool, create a toggle that says "only pair me up with people from my server". THERE...DONE...I just cured aids, cancer and solved the worlds food shortage all in one fell swoop. Nobel Peace Prize please?

 

and my final argument for the LFG/LFD tool....YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT!!! If you are some hardcore mmo purist who wants everything to be mundane and tasking (and if you are you shouldn't be using speeders, hearth stones, emergency fleet passes etc) then good for you. When has it ever been a bad thing to have more features in a game? Some people don't like mods because they give unfair advantage to people who know how to use them (AH tools and stuff like that)...just because you don't want to use something is no reason to deny others who have very strong reasons as to why it will enhance their own playing experience.

 

to the people who say you shouldn't be able to instantly port to the flashpoint/heroic: then you shouldn't be able to instantly port to a warzone, the republican fleet or any other location you've visted (bind spots come to mind). I'd rather be instantly teleported (at least to flashpoints) than be dropped from a group because it's going to take me too long to travel to where everyone is...screw that.

 

to surmise: I honestly don't see any validity to the arguments against a LFG/LFD tool. Regardless of whether you like it or not, it's an MMO staple (WoW and Rift being examples of 2 games that usherd it in) and it's not going anywhere. If you want to claim your MMO is on par with the best, features wise, then you HAVE to have it. No if's and's or but's about it.

 

My guess is that Bioware didn't have time to code it and are working on it now for a future patch. Other obvious omissions that I expect (read: will stop playing SWTOR if they aren't implemented) are: Combat Log, Macros, UI customization, and (personally) the ability to put down my hood as a jedi.

 

In the immortal words of every liberal during the 2000 elections "if they don't implement a LFG/LFD tool...I'm moving to Canada!"

 

sorry for the length...I've just gotten fed up with all of the apologetics(sic) surrounding this issue.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Deavyin

[Caelrie]

This post illustrates the problem. Pro-LFD people only see two options...

 

1. LFD tool.

2. Spam General.

 

It never occurs to them to join a guild or actually talk to people and make friends.

 

Telling people that they have to join a guild in order to get a flashpoint group is an outright admission that the LFG system currently in place is a failure, since you're saying it can't bring strangers together effectively.

 

 

Sorry, but I don't want this to turn into a lobby game with people just standing around waiting for their instance to pop so they can mindlessly rush in to break their loot pinata and get their freebie epics.

That's HOW IT IS NOW.

 

What are you hoping for? That people will stop and marry each other between bosses?

Edited December 30, 2011 by Caelrie

[Olzmo]

It never occurs to them to join a guild or actually talk to people and make friends.

Yes, that is what you should do if you wanted a communal atmosphere and to get to know people with whom to regurarly socialize. I'm sure there are plenty of people with the similiar mindset you possess, thus a LFG tool would not destroy your opportunity for aforementioned things. Also, there is a great deal of people that'd just want to get to an instance as quick as possible, obtain better gear and be happy. There's really nothing wrong with that.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Olzmo

[Deavyin]

 

It never occurs to them to join a guild or actually talk to people and make friends.

 

Sorry, but I don't want this to turn into a lobby game with people just standing around waiting for their instance to pop so they can mindlessly rush in to break their loot pinata and get their freebie epics.

 

What if my guild is small and consists of me and like 10 real life friends? You are basically saying I can't do this if I want to have a fun experience. Sorry, that's total nonsense. This is a game...not everyone wants to play it like it's a job. I don't want to have to sign up in some huge guild and show up at raids at special times or be left out etc etc. I have enough responsibilities already that I don't have the time nor the effort to devote to something like that. You are basically saying: "if you don't play the game the way I DO then you don't deserve to have a fun and rewarding experience".

 

wrooooong.

[Caelrie]

You are basically saying: "if you don't play the game the way I DO then you don't deserve to have a fun and rewarding experience".

 

An extremely common theme in this awful community.

[Deavyin]

here is what is boils down to IMO. With a LFD tool there is pretty much a 100 percent chance you will find a raid/group within a very acceptable period of time. Without one, you don't even have a 100 percent chance. I can't tell you how many times I sat in Ironforge (or for that matter in the republican fleet) spamming "looking for raid" only to NEVER find a group. Eventually I have to give up and sometimes this will be after an hour+ wasted. I'm married, I have a child, a full time job AND I play on an adult co-ed soccer team. I don't have an hour to devote to spamming chat with nothing to show for it.

 

again, you are basically saying "if you have a life that interferes with your ability to play this game like it IS your life...then you shouldn't be playing this game".

 

if you don't like LFD tools don't use it. You and every other naysayer can continue to do things the way it's currently done. No one, including those who want it, are forced to use it. However, I will say this: I bet if they implement it the majority of people WILL use it. You will have a harder time finding a group via /1 spam and that is GREAT because it will go to show just how un-progressive and out-of-the-times it is NOT to have a LFD tool. Basically: if people don't want it, they won't use it. If they do want it: GIVE IT TO THEM!

Edited December 30, 2011 by Deavyin

[Nevur]

This post illustrates the problem. Pro-LFD people only see two options...

 

1. LFD tool.

2. Spam General.

 

It never occurs to them to join a guild or actually talk to people and make friends.

 

Sorry, but I don't want this to turn into a lobby game with people just standing around waiting for their instance to pop so they can mindlessly rush in to break their loot pinata and get their freebie epics.

 

That's what WoW has become, and I will never play that game again. Go there if that's what you want.

 

No, it occurs to me that asking the guild is the very first and most obvious option, so I didn't mention it. I wouldn't resort to general chat/whispers when guildmates are available.

[shoryushoryu]

I have enough responsibilities already that I don't have the time nor the effort to devote to something like that. You are basically saying: "if you don't play the game the way I DO then you don't deserve to have a fun and rewarding experience".

 

wrooooong.

 

Agreed.

 

I really like the game, but I also really think SWTOR will fail if no LFG tool is introduced soon. A lot of people don't have the time/energy to spam general chat and just want to play. The apologists (sp?) are going to ruin this game.

Edited December 30, 2011 by shoryushoryu

[Caelrie]

No, it occurs to me that asking the guild is the very first and most obvious option, so I didn't mention it. I wouldn't resort to general chat/whispers when guildmates are available.

 

Tonight I tried to find a group for Mandalorian Raiders FP, and after a while on the station I gave up and asked in guild. All I found was a level 50 Sith Warrior who wanted the biochem stuff from the animals in there so he ran me through it and I just followed him.

 

This can't be what Bioware thinks is supposed to happen.

[Shillen]

I have formed groups from general chat that dont even speak during the instance. Its not the LFG tool that makes people anti-social, its the players themselves.

 

Yep, people want the communities they used to have in EQ and DAoC back in the 90s and early '00s. Well, sorry, that just doesn't exist anymore. People are not nice and friendly on the internet anymore. That's just a fact of life. It's not the LFG tool's or the game's fault.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Shillen

[Saber_Six]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

You seriously don't see the difference in interacting with your server's community to find a group and hitting a button to be randomly thrown into a random group with random people?

 

You don't see the difference?

[Caelrie]

Yep, people want the communities they used to have in EQ and DAoC back in the 90s and early '00s. Well, sorry, that just doesn't exist anymore. People are not nice and friendly on the internet anymore. That's just a fact of life. It's not the LFG tool's or the game's fault.

 

You know why people talked in groups in Everquest? Because you were stuck, unmoving, in one room in a dungeon waiting for the 2 or 3 mobs you were camping to respawn. What else were you going to do besides talk? You couldn't craft. You couldn't wander. You couldn't fight an empty room. You couldn't leave or you'd lose your spot.

 

People seem to forget how crappy that game was and WHY people talked nonstop while playing it. Screw going back to that.

[TitanJJ]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

The issue is when it's cross server.

 

a cross server LFD system causes people to act like a-holes because there are zero consequences for doing so. Need on every item, go AFK, cause wipes on purpose, etc. The list is very long for ways to grief other players and with a cross server LFD, it is a 100% guarantee that it will happen.

 

If it is only server-wide, the dirtbags will get blacklisted very quickly.

[Caelrie]

You seriously don't see the difference in interacting with your server's community to find a group and hitting a button to be randomly thrown into a random group with random people?

 

You don't see the difference?

 

No, I don't see a difference because you can interact if you want to after you join the group. Or after it.

[Saber_Six]

Telling people that they have to join a guild in order to get a flashpoint group is an outright admission that the LFG system currently in place is a failure, since you're saying it can't bring strangers together effectively.

 

Might want to read what he said again. He didn't say what you just said he did....