Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[Xhelis]

It appears that BW is incentivizing people learning the game. *SHOCK* *GASP*

 

By rewarding people with the basics of gameplay they are educating players on how to do various things in the game.

 

Points. Points. Points. What the point in points? There really isn't any point. Once any player gets over 50K they get a prize package. After that it's only helping your guild with an Invasion. The same guilds that were on top before the conquest changes are still on top. If anything, by an even larger margin.

 

I leveled a new character this week. I'm over 300K just doing normal gameplay stuff.

 

If you want multiple thousands of points for and OP or Master Mode or whatever, fine. What does it change? There is not 1 single advantage gained from points over 50K. You get nothing extra. Unless it's some sort of ego thing and you like running around telling people you have 100 million conquest pts and everyone in the guild worships you as a god. There is ZERO point to over 50K points.

[Damask_Rose]

It appears that BW is incentivizing people learning the game. *SHOCK* *GASP*

 

By rewarding people with the basics of gameplay they are educating players on how to do various things in the game.

 

I had not rolled a single amplifier until it was a Conquest objective. Now I'm actually paying attention to amplifiers.

 

Points. Points. Points. What the point in points? There really isn't any point. Once any player gets over 50K they get a prize package. After that it's only helping your guild with an Invasion. The same guilds that were on top before the conquest changes are still on top. If anything, by an even larger margin.

 

I leveled a new character this week. I'm over 300K just doing normal gameplay stuff.

 

If you want multiple thousands of points for and OP or Master Mode or whatever, fine. What does it change? There is not 1 single advantage gained from points over 50K. You get nothing extra. Unless it's some sort of ego thing and you like running around telling people you have 100 million conquest pts and everyone in the guild worships you as a god. There is ZERO point to over 50K points.

 

There is one point to lots of points, and that is guild leveling. Bioware made the totally bizarre decision to base guild leveling on Conquest points. This made leveling small guilds very slow going.

[Stradlin]

I had not rolled a single amplifier until it was a Conquest objective. Now I'm actually paying attention to amplifiers.

 

"Educative" objectives like these are actually a great idea. Its just that them being daily and one single objective like this offering about four times the points a single pvp match is beyond obscene. I think having such weekly objective makes sense. Having it daily but removing 1 or 2 digits from the reward would make sense. Giving you a literal button to press to earn 5k conq makes a punchline to a joke. It is literal satire. " what's do you ppl want, a freakin button in fleet that gives you conq every day?"Well, yeah. That Literally happened.

 

It prolly does not require a 5k daily reward to educate one to press that button.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

There is ZERO point to over 50K points.

 

There are people busy bragging how this new system allows them to bring 30 (thirty) characters to conq target every week. That's 30 x the conq rewards. It is true there is no use going over 50k on 1 character - at least if you care nothing about your guild or their position. But do that 500k split among 10 characters. That's 10x the rewards, There is your point.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Stradlin

[Psychopyro]

There is one point to lots of points, and that is guild leveling. Bioware made the totally bizarre decision to base guild leveling on Conquest points. This made leveling small guilds very slow going.

 

Yes, but guild exp has a weekly cap, not sure what it is at higher levels, but its there

[Toraak]

Yes, but guild exp has a weekly cap, not sure what it is at higher levels, but its there

 

Think the cap is like 10 million.

[funnypat]

Love it how people keep complaining about "legally" farming a ton of Conquest points when before they ALL just used a glitch farming KP/EV nonstop for conquest points - and yeah it's a glitch or was one. Nobody can, with a straight face, tell me that entering an ops 20 times per day resetting the phase is intended for gameplay…

 

So might want to stop that double standard

[Stradlin]

Love it how people keep complaining about "legally" farming a ton of Conquest points when before they ALL just used a glitch farming KP/EV nonstop for conquest points - and yeah it's a glitch or was one. Nobody can, with a straight face, tell me that entering an ops 20 times per day resetting the phase is intended for gameplay…

 

Pretty broad strokes and valiant generalizations here. Might wanna be a bit cautioousd with all that ALLLING. I was aware of this dull mob farm but never did it myself.. Just didn't sound that much fun, so I instead did all of the perfectly legit and entertaining content giving a ton of conq instead. There will always be oversights and exploits and there will eventually be patches to fix those oversights and exploints.

 

It is an exploit and it got fixed as it should have. Even so, killing mobs in an ops and resetting endlessly indeed has more gameplay invoved than selling garbage for 5500 conq. Or giving a gift for 5500 conq. Or pressing a button for 5500 conq. I'm glad its gone though.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

- It isn't possible to earn any conq at all until you reach level 10 now. I wasn't doing a crazy speedrun or anything, just wanted to roll a new character and bring him to target to help my rep side guild. Plenty of time online went in dressing him up all nice like, setting up ui and all that. One hour and six mins /played on that char now. That's how long it took to go from lvl 1 to 10, from lvl 10 to fleet and from fleet to conq target. From 0 to 50 conq. That lvl 1-13 char made conq so much faster than any max lvl char doing anykind of content requiring other people manages. Cool.

 

- Stuff accummulates so fast now. I logged my max level Mara. He was sitting with 49k conq. Went to Balmorra,picked Toxic bombs. Completed bonus mission and the actual heroic. Only supplementary objective reached while at it was a renown rank up. Made 20k conq in 2 mins. In GSF or pvp, you aren't even done with match setup screen that fast. Nice.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[funnypat]

Pretty broad strokes and valiant generalizations here. Might wanna be a bit cautioousd with all that ALLLING. I was aware of this dull mob farm but never did it myself.. Just didn't sound that much fun, so I instead did all of the perfectly legit and entertaining content giving a ton of conq instead. There will always be oversights and exploits and there will eventually be patches to fix those oversights and exploints.

 

It is an exploit and it got fixed as it should have. Even so, killing mobs in an ops and resetting endlessly indeed has more gameplay invoved than selling garbage for 5500 conq. Or giving a gift for 5500 conq. Or pressing a button for 5500 conq. I'm glad its gone though.

 

If you want political correctness I suggest you don't look into forums of any kind.

 

"ALL" just sounds more dramatic and I'm sure at least half the people here who are claiming "I never did it, it's too dull, but bad bad new conquest thingy" were people who actually started such ops grps.

Maybe you're not one of them, congratulations I think we just found the last unicorn, but then you don't have to respond to stuff that doesn't apply to you, do you?

 

The stuff you just listed is worth about 20k conquest points restricted to 1 character per day - let's go overboard and say it's 40k - still, once per day one character only. Since ops are now restricted to lvl 70+ only I don't see any harm.

 

And as long as devs aren't removing HS from GF i'll take sending comps selling trash 5000 times over doing the 657th million HS run and the exact same people whom you can thank for filtering, later complaining on fleet that there is no endcontent

[Stradlin]

 

say it's 40k - still, once per day one character only.

 

 

Add one single 2 minute lasting mission on top of that. Grats, that's 8 characters to conquest target within a week(you can do tuesday twice.) Thats a pretty significant portion of characters average player..plays in a week i think. All 8 to conq within 10 mins.

 

Since ops are now restricted to lvl 70+ only I don't see any harm.

 

Really not following you here. Content requiring other people to happen isn't limited to Ops or 70+. That content includes FPs, Ops, GSF, PvP, most of the world bosses and precious few Mission chains and heroic missions. Some of this content begins being available for you at lvl 1 (GSF) and all of this content, save from Ops, is available for you at level 10. Do you feel content of this type should make much less and much slower conquest than straightforward solo stuff? Would it be kinda sensical and okay for youy if all these things gave approx as good conquest?

 

Once you are done with the 10 min tour to fleet and log that char out, you can keep logging chars in and dive right into planetary heroics and go creazy. I made 20k just now in 2 mins inside Balmorran Toxic bombs. I scored a renown level+bonus mission+1st balmorra mission+completing the mission. I had reached 10k from heroic earlier. No content requiring other people to complete is in same ballpark. A GSF or PvP match hasn't even BEGAN in time it took me to finish that 20k toxic bombs faceroll. Shouldn't content requiring other people earn at least as much conquest in your books? Or, say, a comparable amount even?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[funnypat]

Sure, in an ideal world everybody would get the same amount of conquest points for every content provided, but sadly that's not possible.

 

It sure as hell helps people now the way it is though to do bonus mission series on planets for example, doing stuff they skipped before because it simply wasn't rewarding enough - missing out on like 60% of the game.

 

And that's a nice side effect, sure there will always be people who will farm crazy objectives each day every day so they can max out the rewards on as many chars as possible, but despite of the new conquest system I still see people looking for EV farms, spamming HS for gearing, doing RR stealth runs on cd and stuff like that - no system will ever please everybody, but it sure is easy to focus on the negative instead of the content people start to play again or that smaller guilds can survive now too and get some love with crafting mats.

 

The issue isn't the system but the people exploiting it to no end, and that will never change.

[Psychopyro]

- It isn't possible to earn any conq at all until you reach level 10 now. I wasn't doing a crazy speedrun or anything, just wanted to roll a new character and bring him to target to help my rep side guild. Plenty of time online went in dressing him up all nice like, setting up ui and all that. One hour and six mins /played on that char now. That's how long it took to go from lvl 1 to 10, from lvl 10 to fleet and from fleet to conq target. From 0 to 50 conq. That lvl 1-13 char made conq so much faster than any max lvl char doing anykind of content requiring other people manages. Cool.

 

- Stuff accummulates so fast now. I logged my max level Mara. He was sitting with 49k conq. Went to Balmorra,picked Toxic bombs. Completed bonus mission and the actual heroic. Only supplementary objective reached while at it was a renown rank up. Made 20k conq in 2 mins. In GSF or pvp, you aren't even done with match setup screen that fast. Nice.

I'm gonna point this out again... we are not going to have 2x XP forever... this is going to inflate the gains/time a little bit... Also you won't be able to get all those point forever...

 

Another thing to consider, new players won't have that shiny 150% CQ bonus.... That means they're only getting the minimum base amount for each thing. The numbers they came up with I'm sure were based on BASE CQ and not BONUS CQ.

[xordevoreaux]

The issue isn't the system but the people exploiting it to no end, and that will never change.

 

Exploiting is absolutely the wrong word.

Exploiting is intentionally pursuing a programming error. All you mentioned was farming.

Pursuing the least line of resistance (KP farming, etc.,) isn't an exploit. It's bending knee to the math of the moment.

Edited April 27, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[funnypat]

Exploiting is absolutely the wrong word.

Exploiting is intentionally pursuing a programming error. All you mentioned was farming.

Pursuing the least line of resistance (KP farming, etc.,) isn't an exploit. It's bending knee to the math of the moment.

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night, resetting phases is a mechanic intended to restart if something bugs out - grp falls apart etc - not to spam stuff for rewards. If it was intended that way KP wouldn't have been nerfed, LBLO would still be a thing, etc.

[Enellas]

Well on the bright side it allows players that don't have much time for the game to be able to complete their goals. Edited April 27, 2020 by CommunityDroidEN
Removed ref link

[xordevoreaux]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, resetting phases is a mechanic intended to restart if something bugs out - grp falls apart etc - not to spam stuff for rewards. If it was intended that way KP wouldn't have been nerfed, LBLO would still be a thing, etc.

 

I agree we're talking semantics, but it's bad to toss words around that can cloud your point. An exploit is getting into an area that programmatically you're not supposed to get into so that you can do things that you're not supposed to do.

 

Mindlessly farming KP all day is not an exploit, never was. EA's reaction to people whining about big guilds reaping wildly high conquest points for farming is why last boss lockouts and the various farms were nerfed, NOT for being game exploits.

 

Massive difference.

[Stradlin]

Sure, in an ideal world everybody would get the same amount of conquest points for every content provided, but sadly that's not possible.

 

Heh. As if we were talking about some decimals in here.

Have them in same BALLPARK. 2 mins of doing stuff via method A gets you 20k. Merthod B is 30 mins to get that 20k. Surely you can see this isn't about minding some 10% difference here or 15% there. This is broken.

 

Sadly, it just isn't possible to repair a broken situation where activity A is something like 500% more/faster conquest?

 

We get to witness all this disparity even when completely bypassing and ignoring everything but time involved.

 

We don't have to touch easy/hard either. Conq has never really been about that anyway.

 

Grp stuff is, in practice, always slower and more time consuming to set up. You need to build that grp. Or you need to wait in grp finder tool. Or you need to sit in GSF/pvp queue. Meanwhile, fleet conq or doing (m)any of the 2 min planetaries is always the same and just as fast. Even so, for sake of the argument, we can ignore all this disparity. We can fully embrace a scenario where grp content and pvp/gsf matches begin with all the ease and speed of clicking Solo->Balmorra Heroics and porting in. We can pretrend grp content is just as fast and simple to set up. AND IT STILL looks unbalanced and broken as hell.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[DarkTergon]

Well on the bright side it allows players that don't have much time for the game to be able to complete their goals.

 

excatly, this is why i like this Conquest more than the previous versions, it's more alt friendly, more inclusive, and more people will benefit. The ONLY people who DON'T benefit from this are the mat sellers.

 

Also, as a side note, you can't have your ref link in the body of the message, it needs to be in a signature It could result in a warning or ban, etc. (not sure what the punishment is)

[Stradlin]

excatly, this is why i like this Conquest more than the previous versions, it's more alt friendly, more inclusive, and more people will benefit. The ONLY people who DON'T benefit from this are the mat sellers.

 

Also, as a side note, you can't have your ref link in the body of the message, it needs to be in a signature It could result in a warning or ban, etc. (not sure what the punishment is)

 

Patch that increased amount of conq people make by 400% or so actually had amount of conq you earn in pvp or GSF NERFED. Those casual people who don't have much time to play but enjoy pvp/gsf are hurt by this patch. People who love reaching conq by selling garbage and doing fleet stuff in NO WAY suffer if BW were kind enough to elevate pvp and grp content on SAME LEVEL with the straightforward solo content.

[DarkTergon]

Patch that increased amount of conq people make by 400% or so actually had amount of conq you earn in pvp or GSF NERFED. Those casual people who don't have much time to play but enjoy pvp/gsf are hurt by this patch. People who love reaching conq by selling garbage and doing fleet stuff in NO WAY suffer if BW were kind enough to elevate pvp and grp content on SAME LEVEL with the straightforward solo content.

 

it's a small trade off for

 

This Conquest more than the previous versions, is more alt friendly, more inclusive, and more people will benefit. The ONLY people who DON'T benefit from this are the mat sellers.

[funnypat]

The issue with elevating pvp is:

 

we had something like that before, not exactly conquest related but rewards in general - as soon as you boost that enough you get the "afk pvpers" again. And we used to have a lot of them, or people who are getting the team to lose on purpose so match ends faster, etc etc

 

You'd need so many adaptions to prevent that, like autologout - not only at the starting point, being able to kick people who pass ball to enemy 3 times in a row or something (i don't see people using that "would be feature" at all for neferious purposes).

 

Pvpers can though, while waiting for queue to pop, do exactly the stuff you said earlier - travel to korriban or so, kill 5 mobs - send companion to sell stuff,... instead of waiting on fleet for pop

Edited April 27, 2020 by funnypat

[lpope]

Another thing to consider is that group content lovers generally also have access to these simplistic CQ tasks. It's not as if they can't do them as well.

 

And some of the changes to group content CQ reward were what I would consider alignment with other group content rather than intended as nerfs. For example removing the infinitely repeatable task. For a long time, the initial completion of a task granted more rewards and subsequent runs granted reduced rewards. I think that is appropriate and at least partially explains the change to the rewards. Now I also think boosting the reward for the initial completion may be warranted.

 

As an aside, I got 17 characters to personal goal this week which is more than double than what I've done since 6.0 dropped. I completed 7 or 8 of my characters exactly as prior to the patch, via FPs. The rest of the characters were done via the newer CQ tasks. Now someone might say, we'll look you did less group content. Not true, I wouldn't have done group content on the additional 10 characters. I played more hours than in previous weeks. I have plenty of other things I can do including other games. It's not a simple case that I just allocate all my leisure time in SWTOR doing various content.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

LBLO would still be a thing, etc.

 

LBLO is still a thing, it's just that instead of one week to use it, you only have 1 day. The shortened lockouts on sm ops did nothing to stop conquest farmers, but just made it harder for casuals who don't have 2 to 4 hours to commit to in one run to learn the longer OPs.

[DarkTergon]

LBLO is still a thing, it's just that instead of one week to use it, you only have 1 day. The shortened lockouts on sm ops did nothing to stop conquest farmers, but just made it harder for casuals who don't have 2 to 4 hours to commit to in one run to learn the longer OPs.

 

I agree with this, I miss the LBLO's especially when I'm limited to time.