Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[DreadtechSavant]

Well, the weeks almost up and like the new conquest even more now than the first day. I have also done some of the planetary bonus quests which I had not done literally for years. As for the OP's rant about it has made players become solo players, well I was a solo player before and will always be. So far his new conquest has brought new life to the game at least for me. Played every day so far without being bored or easily distracted by what's on T.V.

[Stradlin]

 

And some of the changes to group content CQ reward were what I would consider alignment with other group content rather than intended as nerfs. For example removing the infinitely repeatable task. F

 

 

There I thought folks wanted all content to be equal in terms of conq earned?

After this """alignment"" it now takes a pvp'er or a GSF pilot aroud 30 mins to manage 15k conquest. That's me being bit generous. Go do few two min lasting faceroller planetary heroics and see how long you need to get 15k that way.

 

Is it a bad thing if somebody doing content that requires other people to happen gets conquest as fast as somebody facerolling planetary heroics?

 

it's a small trade off for

 

And WHY is this trade off needed again? What great calamity falls upon you if ppl who like grp content and pvp get as much as fast conq as you do?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[DawnAskham]

There I thought folks wanted all content to be equal in terms of conq earned?

After this """alignment"" it now takes a pvp'er or a GSF pilot 30 mins to manage 15k conquest. That's me being optimistcc and generous. Go do few 2 min lasting faceroller planetary heroics and see how long you need to get 15k.

Is it a bad thing if somebody doing content that requires other people to happen gets conquest as fast as somebody facerolling planetary heroics?

 

What is stopping you from running those 2 minute heroics while waiting on queues, or running crew skill missions while in a warzone, or redecorating your stronghold, or having your companion sell trash when you log in?

 

Also the other activities are once per day at most - so if you get more points for GSF and PVP activities, you'd be ok with them being once per day versus the current infinitely repeatable objectives like 'complete a match' or 'earn 8 medals'?

 

EDIT TO ADD: We also don't know what objectives will show up in coming weeks - previously some weeks have had a heavy focus on PVP objectives or GSF objectives or Ops objectives or flashpoint objectives.

 

That may still hold true and we'll have weeks where PVP or GSF are the focus.

Edited April 27, 2020 by DawnAskham

[Stradlin]

What is stopping you from running those 2 minute heroics while waiting on queues,

 

There I thought the point was making conq inclusive and all content equally relevant from its pov?

 

Also the other activities are once per day at most - so if you get more points for GSF and PVP activities, you'd be ok with them being once per day versus the current infinitely repeatable objectives like 'complete a match' or 'earn 8 medals'?

Have you've checked out that infinitely repeatable objective and done the math? 1560 points for GSF. One match is around 14 mins or so. 10 matches and two and a half hours of non stop GSF gives 15k points. One single planetary heroic mission completed in two minutes gets you far more. Days worth iof GSF s not enough to catch somebody soloing planetary missions. Does this sound right to you?

 

I used GSF as an example, but pvp, FPs and Ops suffer from this too. Tho last two to a lesser degree.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

EDIT TO ADD: We also don't know what objectives will show up in coming weeks - previously some weeks have had a heavy focus on PVP objectives or GSF objectives or Ops objectives or flashpoint objectives.

 

That may still hold true and we'll have weeks where PVP or GSF are the focus.

 

Sure. We'll see. Its just that looking at the menu, I think it pretty easy to see which objectives come from BH theme week, and which are there to stay. For example, every mission on every single planet ever made in tor prolly isn't tied to BH event. Nor do I believe BH event has some logical or thematic reason to offer utterly wretched pvp rewards that fare far better come future.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

There I thought the point was making conq inclusive and all content equally relevant from its pov?

 

 

Have you've checked out that infinitely repeatable objective and done the math? 1560 points for GSF. One match is around 14 mins or so. 10 matches and two and a half hours of non stop GSF gives 15k points. One single planetary heroic mission completed in two minutes gets you far more. Days worth iof GSF s not enough to catch somebody soloing planetary missions. Does this sound right to you?

 

I used GSF as an example, but pvp, FPs and Ops suffer from this too. Tho last two to a lesser degree.

 

What would you actually suggest for changes here? I think you've made your stance on the matter clear over the course of 30+ pages in this thread and the other, but what changes do you think need to be made in order to rectify the issues you have with this?

[Stradlin]

What would you actually suggest for changes here? I think you've made your stance on the matter clear over the course of 30+ pages in this thread and the other, but what changes do you think need to be made in order to rectify the issues you have with this?

 

There's now dozens of brand news conq goals. Almost none of them are for content that requires other people. Grp/GSF/PVP rolls with objectives from old conquest, while some of the fastest and most straightforward solo stuff has the objectives so juicy they can take characters to target in 10-20 mins. Just giving PvP/GSF and the grp stuff as generous supplement of delicious daily 5k dings would already go a long way.

 

Basically, make sure somebody doing 4 hous of wz/gsf matches (or flashpoints, or Ops, or difficult solo content) ends up with conq comparable to doing 4 hours of planetary heroics and mission running.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[Psychopyro]

No heroic only takes two minutes

 

To be fair, as a stealth class there are a few that you can finish in under 2 minutes....

 

On average though these people are exaggerating how little time it takes to hit CQ. I sure as hell couldn't hit it in 10 minutes on any character I tried to do it on.

 

And again these aren't normal circumstances. I don't see any nerf coming until we are out of 2xp and everyone being stuck at home is over. Also people again don't all have stronghold bonus maxed. It really is just a couple people being trolls cause they made it easier.

[-Rachel-]

Ah yeah, stealth classes. Next, that will be the trolls next complaint that has to change or removed cause they can skip mobs while he can't. Why he even is complaining beats me, everyone plays this game how they want to play it. Edited April 28, 2020 by -Rachel-

[DarkTergon]

Ah yeah, stealth classes. Next, that will be the trolls next complaint that has to change or removed cause they can skip mobs while he can't. Why he even is complaining beats me, everyone plays this game how they want to play it.

 

True, stealth classes get away with murder, it's terrible Kidding aside, in general most heroics aren't that quick, and take time to get there, and mobs to go through, etc, even with heroic transport. PLus as was pointed out, a lot of people solo them, so they are getting one lot of points, while in pvp, ops, people help each other, so if you were to add all their points up, it's be roughly the same, maybe more. Semantics? Probably, but alot of the naysayers are basing their objections on semantics. The average heroic can last longer, or shorter, depending on kill, gear, etc. Same can be said of PvP, gsf, etc. We;ve all been in matches where suddenly it's over before it even started :/

 

Lets keep the positivity flowing

[Stradlin]

PLus as was pointed out, a lot of people solo them, so they are getting one lot of points, while in pvp, ops, people help each other, so if you were to add all their points up, it's be roughly the same

 

For sake of context, when poster above me is talking about this, he is referring to something that was said in another conq thread just a bit earlier.. Here:

 

 

(on why Ops,Warzones or GSF should get far less rewards: )

You are being HELPED by OTHER PEOPLE.

You are only putting in 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 of the effort required to get the task done.

That is why you score less points individually.

Now times the point you get by 4, 8, or 16 and those points come out on a par with the "faceroll" solo points.

 

You heard it here first folks. I mean..literally, for real I bet nobody here has never heard anyone claim something like this before. People doing multiplayer-exclusiver contrent in an MMO should have their rewards reduced due to playing with/against people. Even fairly menial tasks, if done alone, should give higher rewards. Since no taint such as team, enemy team or other ppl in general is involved. Seriously, has ANYONE EVER heard of an MMO player suggesting such fate for multiplaye content in a multiplayer game?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[DarthAlastor]

Rewards are different even if people are in the same group because of personal objectives too. If someone in a group of 4 gains a renown level while the other 3 don't the other 3 people don't get credit for that

[DarthSpuds]

You heard it here forst folks. I mean..literally, for real I bet nobody here has never heard anyone claim something like this before.

 

Well, back in the early days of MMORPGs that was exactly what happened.

 

If 4 people grouped up to kill X and X awarded 1000xp they only got 250xp each.

But whiners who only ever did group stuff, ie people who need other people to do their work for them, complained, and soon a lot of games were awarding XP and even Loot bonuses for grouping.

 

All The best

[Stradlin]

Well, back in the early days of MMORPGs that was exactly what happened.

 

If 4 people grouped up to kill X and X awarded 1000xp they only got 250xp each.

 

 

t

 

PvP and GSF rewards are the most broken bits of current conquest system, Neither of these things can even happen without other people. Stuff such as Ops, MM FPs and so on are designed exclusively as challenging gropup content. However, since all these things involve other people, rewards for them should be reduced. Right.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[TinaLovesHan]

In response to the original post only: I don't know that I have ever disagreed with a post more than I do this one.

 

Conquest is in the absolute best shape it's *ever* been. More players at more levels are able to participate if they choose. Play how *you* want to play and let others play how they want to play. It should make no difference to you if *more* people are able to complete conquest and participate if they so choose.

 

What is it with people thinking that this game has to be hard so I can brag about how 1337 i am! Continue to do conquest how you like and let others play how they like.

 

Be nice to your fellow players and let them enjoy the game.

[Stradlin]

I

What is it with people thinking that this game has to be hard so I can brag about how 1337 i am! Continue to do conquest how you like and let others play how they like.

 

 

 

Conquest has never been about " difficult" content or master modes etc. It was never some playground of "leet folks!" doing the hardest things game has to offer. " It was never even " end game" as much as it was a replacement of end game. It was always quite inclusive. Loads of stuff rewading you points were easy as hell. I did loads of conquest since expansion and approx 0 points from it came from stuff most ppl consider difficult end game content. (ranked pvp, hard mode ops)

 

 

Having said that, I consider it pointless to try to get point in unedited OP across. People love easy, free stuff and bringing 30 alts to conq a week way more than I love trying to argue what got lost in the process.

 

Of late, only argument I'm making here orbits something you just said yourself: "continue to do conquest how you like and let others play how they like. " This has kinda changed for anyone who likes pvp or GSF more than anything else. These things got Nerfed. In a patch that increased literally everything else by 400% ior so.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[Akushii]

Why do you keep harping about GSF/PvP? Don't tie that stuff with Conquest. Let conquest be it's own thing and everything we do give us conquest points. Previously it was a chore doing conquest if I wanted to finish it. Now, I don't have to worry about it. I just focus on my gameplay and earn my conquest. For the record, I enjoy doing OPs and I usually run 1-2 OPs every day and now I am completing conquest on toons simply by running through the Operation. On cases where I have like 5k-10k left, I do some simple solo task (like selling junk) to finish the toon off. I don't go out of my way to complete all soloable objective.

 

Similarly for PvP and GSF players, let them play whatever they want and eventually the conquest will come. If your matches are not giving you enough conquest, do those simple tasks in '10 minutes' to finish the conquest so you don't have to worry about playing X amount of games to get conquest.

 

Let everyone do what they want and let conquest be a by product. The same way Renown ranks/crates work. I don't consistently work towards Renown crates, they come when the come. Don't force people to group up and run group content just to earn conquest. If people want to play solo, they have every right to do so. If people want to run Flashpoints/Operations/PvP/GSF then let them. Everyone now earns conquest regardless of what you are doing, rather than what you are proposing which limits conquest earned and forces people to run specific content.

 

I have toons with 100-200K points from just playing. I don't care that it's being wasted because most of my toons I care about have reached their goal and I didn't have to worry about keeping track of what I am doing so I don't accidentally finish a mission on a toon that doesn't need it.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Akushii

[DarkTergon]

In response to the original post only: I don't know that I have ever disagreed with a post more than I do this one.

 

Conquest is in the absolute best shape it's *ever* been. More players at more levels are able to participate if they choose. Play how *you* want to play and let others play how they want to play. It should make no difference to you if *more* people are able to complete conquest and participate if they so choose.

 

 

 

Be nice to your fellow players and let them enjoy the game.

 

excatly this is what 99% of the people here are saying. This is the best CQ has ever been, I hope they don't touch it, I'd be worried, that if then started messing with it, they fubar it up completely

[Stradlin]

Why do you keep harping about GSF

 

 

Content giving good Conquest has a ton of gravity. WAY more people are doing WAY more planetary heroics/missions now than they used to. Its not like they suddenly just happen to feel huge renewed love for these missions in and of themselves. However, they give some sick conquest now. That elevates the content and makes it fun and, literally, rewarding. Content that gives MUCH less conquest is quite literally less rewarding.

 

Now..there are people who like various soloable planetaries no matter what! Are these missions taking you to conq target in 15 mins or not at all? it don't matter for them. They love them missions and keep doing them over and over again. Nothing wrong with that. These people and planetary missions as content are completely disconnected from other people, how popular or empty the game is, what the community is or isn't doing. What activity inside the game is or isn't very popular. Soloable planetary missions, as content, are there. Planetary soloable missions in no way benefit or suffer from how mane or how few people do them. If there is one person in the entire world who wants to enter an instance in Balmorra and do Toxic Bombs at 5 A.M, that content happens for him and he is happy.

 

 

Give multiplayer content generous conq. rewards and it, too, gains a ton of gravity. People who'd not otherwise be there end up discovering it or redicovering it and playing it. However, unlike solo stuff, multiplayer content -needs- buzz. It needs some popularity and people doing it. Multiplayer content needs people diving in queue pools and using LFG tools. Multiplayer content needs to be popular enough to even happen. Somebody who really likes GSF or , say, lowbie WZs and would do them no matter how much or little conq they give..well, he won't be able to do his favorite content if it grows abandoned enough,. Currently, soloable stuff that needs no popularity at all to be content for those wanting it has far superior gravity when compared to grp/pvp stuff that -needs- some populairty in order to happen at all. Such state of matters is not right. It is broken. Please fix this BW.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Stradlin

[DizzD]

So sorry the game isn't catering to your playstyle. /s

 

This change is overwhelmingly positive for *every* player in this game whether some of them like OP realize it or not.

 

More options = better experience. If you want to get CQ as a group you can very easily running heroics *with a group*, running FPs *with a group*. The main difference is NOW the huge majority of vet players with tons of alts have more options and less of a mindless grind.

[DarkTergon]

So sorry the game isn't catering to your playstyle. /s

 

This change is overwhelmingly positive for *every* player in this game whether some of them like OP realize it or not.

 

More options = better experience. If you want to get CQ as a group you can very easily running heroics *with a group*, running FPs *with a group*. The main difference is NOW the huge majority of vet players with tons of alts have more options and less of a mindless grind.

 

excatly, and 99% of the people here seem to agree. But you can't please everyone

[Stradlin]

So sorry the game isn't catering to your playstyle. /s

 

This change is overwhelmingly positive for *every* player in this game whether some of them like OP realize it or not.

 

More options = better experience. If you want to get CQ as a group you can very easily running heroics *with a group*,.

 

 

 

Hahah. Now -here- is some brutal honesty that def stands repeating!

 

Doing soloable few min lasting heroics alone or doing soloable few min lasting heroics in a grp. That's your idea of "diverse, level fun playing field for those who wanna reach conq target fast?"

 

It rings true tho, these are mostly the options available for people who like to earn conq fast. I mean, if you wanna settle for something less, I guess you can go do an FP too.

 

Do the menial daily busywork with selling garbage, companion gifts etc. Then its off to do some more of them riveting planetary missions"!! I'd take biiiiiiiiiit of a roundabout past buzzword like " diverse" or " varied" here if I were you tho. Imagine how varied things would turn if you could add GSF, PvP, etc to that list of " stuff I can do to get conq fast"

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

There's now dozens of brand news conq goals. Almost none of them are for content that requires other people. Grp/GSF/PVP rolls with objectives from old conquest, while some of the fastest and most straightforward solo stuff has the objectives so juicy they can take characters to target in 10-20 mins. Just giving PvP/GSF and the grp stuff as generous supplement of delicious daily 5k dings would already go a long way.

 

They should be doing this for sure, at least for PVP game modes like WZs and GSF. There is one this week (something to the effect of "Complete a Warzone" for 5k daily in addition to the infinite medals objective and the weekly objective), but since it wasn't there last week it's clearly not permanent when it should be. GSF should have one too.

 

There's something to be said here about PVP modes needing more rewards period, beyond just Conquest. Which actually brings me to the next thing I'd like to mention.

 

Basically, make sure somebody doing 4 hous of wz/gsf matches (or flashpoints, or Ops, or difficult solo content) ends up with conq comparable to doing 4 hours of planetary heroics and mission running.

 

I don't think this necessarily needs to be the case. WZs and GSF are different for the reasons mentioned above, but Flashpoints and Ops specifically don't need to give the same amount of conquest that heroics, dailies, and other activities do. I wouldn't be upset if they gave more than they do currently, and I do happen to agree that some of the more menial objectives (Reroll an Amp, Place Stronghold Decorations, etc) need to be toned down, but I don't think FPs/Ops need to be equally rewarding for Conquest for the time spent.

 

The main reason for that is the same reason why I think WZs and GSF should be buffed, and the main reason why I'm glad dailies and heroics have been buffed: Flashpoints and Ops are by far the most rewarding content in the game right now. See Hammer Station runs on repeat, Boss lockout tricks, etc for the ways people have worked out farming these pieces of content down to a science because of how much more efficient they are for those purposes. They are the best place to gear right now, full stop.

 

Heroics and dailies (minus specifically Onderon and Mek-Sha), currently, are only useful for credits and leveling at the moment. They don't drop gear or tech fragments and everything else you can get from them, you get from Ops and Flashpoints at a quicker pace. Even leveling can be faster through Flashpoints. Giving dailies/heroics/similar content a higher yield through Conquest means that playing them instead of Flashpoints at least has some value to players and makes the rewards at the end a little more worth it. Again, PVP and GSF should be here too, since rewards are a problem for those game modes too.

 

Ops and Flashpoints still give good Conquest points, but are slower. The trade off there is you're getting a lot more direct gear rewards and tech fragments than you would be by doing other things. I think that's a fair trade.

Edited April 28, 2020 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Kraysk]

Why should i do planetary heroics or ridiculously meaningless stupid tasks like feeding companion or selling trash to reach conquest goal? I don't want to do that. I don't want to leave my SH.

I just want to be able to reach my conquest in 2 hours or even under 1 hour by doing nothing but GSF. As it used to be.

Now flying GSF brings you to personal target in 3 or even 4 hours. Meanwhile some lvl 12 can reach conquest point in under 10 minutes doing literally zero effort.

Current system FORCES me to go to Dromund Kaas and do some stupid stuff.

I can't send companion to sell trash, because the way i play i never have any trash in inventory.

I can't ride a taxi, because the way i play im never into open world doing quests.

But current conquest system FORCES me to go do meaningless stuff that i hate to begin with, just to reach personal target in reasonable time.

How is this "play your way"?

Dear devs, please consider to remove GSF and PvP from the game completely, if you hate pvpers and pilots so much. At least that will be fair.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Kraysk

[Stradlin]

But current conquest system FORCES me to go do meaningless stuff that i hate to begin with, just to reach personal target in reasonable time.

How is this "play your way"?

.

 

I wish they allowed people to tailor their own targets each week. At the very beginning, what gave good conquest depended on which planet guild chose. Guilds picked which aspects of the game give good conquest for its members. System where players, not guilds, can pick this for themselves would be great.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Stradlin