How can you possible stand playing pug regs?

[Raansu]

Premades should simply be paired against a similar premade. No other similar premade in queue? Too bad, guess the one tryhard premade can't play and ruin the fun for everybody else. And no I don't have any friends to make my own premade

 

Or they could go play ranked where they are supposed to be.

[mothbanquet]

On the flipside, beating a premade with a team of pugs is one of the best feelings in the world.

[malyj]

I'd like to thank all the people who leave huttball matches. As a solo player I often get your spot, which means I get a high rate of huttball matches. I would queue for only huttballs if I could.

[Raansu]

I'd like to thank all the people who leave huttball matches. As a solo player I often get your spot, which means I get a high rate of huttball matches. I would queue for only huttballs if I could.

 

OG huttball. The other two huttball maps can go fly a kite.

[Floplag]

On the flipside, beating a premade with a team of pugs is one of the best feelings in the world.

 

This is literally why i play the game right now PvP wise.

[TrixxieTriss]

The last week my wife and I have been playing lowbies so I can teach her how to pvp on certain classes. We’ve achieved our conquest on two guilds by just doing this.

 

Yesterday I decided to get some lvl 70s to ax lvl by pvping. OMG, it’s a complete shambles, just like lvl 75. I don’t know how rolls go from being semi competent in lowbies to being so bad in upper Mids.

 

The lower lvl mid players seem ok because they’ve not been “infected” with the idiot mentality that lvl 70+ players seem to have. But as they get closer to lvl 74, the worse they get.

All semblance of trying to win goes out the window. Everything turns into a gank fest with 7 players chasing 1-2 good players all over the map.

 

I even had some idiot telling people to rotate nodes in Nova coast as soon as they capture one because that’s the best strategy and the most guaranteed way to win

When I told them it wasn’t and how to actually play, I was told to L2P “scrub” by many on the team. At which point I left

[Nemmar]

The last week my wife and I have been playing lowbies so I can teach her how to pvp on certain classes. We’ve achieved our conquest on two guilds by just doing this.

 

Yesterday I decided to get some lvl 70s to ax lvl by pvping. OMG, it’s a complete shambles, just like lvl 75. I don’t know how rolls go from being semi competent in lowbies to being so bad in upper Mids.

 

The lower lvl mid players seem ok because they’ve not been “infected” with the idiot mentality that lvl 70+ players seem to have. But as they get closer to lvl 74, the worse they get.

All semblance of trying to win goes out the window. Everything turns into a gank fest with 7 players chasing 1-2 good players all over the map.

 

I even had some idiot telling people to rotate nodes in Nova coast as soon as they capture one because that’s the best strategy and the most guaranteed way to win

When I told them it wasn’t and how to actually play, I was told to L2P “scrub” by many on the team. At which point I left

 

Yeah... players like that exist, sadly.

 

The other day in a veteran flashpoint i was grouped with newbies that didnt have a clue but were entitled.

I don't recall the name. It's some temple where you have to get the bombs at the start. Clueless they were, i was the only one going for the bombs, wich ended up with 2 groups pulled. Told them they need to do the bombs. I got the bombs and then we went to kill the next 2 groups where me the sage in this case got agro from most mobs, because of course i do more damage. After that they vote to kick me. I was like... what? I'm the one that wanted to leave after the cluelessness displayed.

I went: "That's alright. I didnt want to carry you anyways." Really regreted not just leaving after the cluelessness and silence displayed at the beggining.

 

Like, i know there are some pretty nasty experienced players out there, but half the time i see people abusing the vote to kick system, to the point i think it should be removed in veteran FP's. It's used to grief more than anything. Just add an inactivity auto kick feature with it.

Sadly cant be applied to pvp.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Nemmar

[Aeneas_Falco]

 

I even had some idiot telling people to rotate nodes in Nova coast as soon as they capture one because that’s the best strategy and the most guaranteed way to win

When I told them it wasn’t and how to actually play, I was told to L2P “scrub” by many on the team. At which point I left

 

LOL.

 

When I'm on my Op and the other team is stronger or has more healing I keep pressuring the enemy's off node even if we have two capped. That often results in capping a third, trading nodes if they cap one of ours, or drawing several of their team away from our nodes when they react to the incoming call from their node guard. Its a good strategy for one stealth player and you can often carry a weaker team that way.

 

Plus its just a lot of fun to rack up solo kills and cap three or four of the enemy's nodes every time they take one of yours.

 

Rotating most of the team though is just dumb though and guarantees the other team (and probably an Op or Sin) caps whatever node you just left.

[mothbanquet]

LOL.

 

When I'm on my Op and the other team is stronger or has more healing I keep pressuring the enemy's off node even if we have two capped. That often results in capping a third, trading nodes if they cap one of ours, or drawing several of their team away from our nodes when they react to the incoming call from their node guard. Its a good strategy for one stealth player and you can often carry a weaker team that way.

 

Plus its just a lot of fun to rack up solo kills and cap three or four of the enemy's nodes every time they take one of yours.

 

Rotating most of the team though is just dumb though and guarantees the other team (and probably an Op or Sin) caps whatever node you just left.

 

We very narrowly won a lowbie Alderaan game in just such a way yesterday. The other team were technically better, though I couldn't add my DPS to the mid brawl as not a one person went to grass, so I was left with my lvl 13 or so sorc to guard. Didn't even have my shield.

 

Anyhoo, aside from being kept in a state of constant, catlike readiness I did gather that two of our stealthers managed to cap snow a few times after the bulk of the marauding enemy went back to mid. These 2-3 caps ended up being enough to win the game by the narrowest of margins despite my screen being filled with "[insert name] has been defeated" and "[enemy] is invincible!".

 

And to our credit, when I did run into trouble the call for help was answered quickly. Job done in spite of overwhelming numbers thanks to exactly what you describe.

[Peiper-kgr-gd]

na the ranked people told us not to queue unless we are fully maxed out and with 3-month experience in ranked but if i cannot queue i cannot get experience so we are just not allowed to queue.

 

lol you know dont give a **** on this **** talking trolls , play what you like and good

you know these people are the same trolls how stand every few days on station and ask for click that ****** link

dont listen to that trolls

[Nemmar]

LOL.

 

When I'm on my Op and the other team is stronger or has more healing I keep pressuring the enemy's off node even if we have two capped. That often results in capping a third, trading nodes if they cap one of ours, or drawing several of their team away from our nodes when they react to the incoming call from their node guard. Its a good strategy for one stealth player and you can often carry a weaker team that way.

 

Plus its just a lot of fun to rack up solo kills and cap three or four of the enemy's nodes every time they take one of yours.

 

Rotating most of the team though is just dumb though and guarantees the other team (and probably an Op or Sin) caps whatever node you just left.

 

Thing is, that strategy only works if the node is badly defended. You would be better off helping the defense of the nodes you got.

You don't need to do more damage or healing, you need to keep them busy as people respawn and run back.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Nemmar

[Aeneas_Falco]

Thing is, that strategy only works if the node is badly defended. You would be better off helping the defense of the nodes you got.

You don't need to do more damage or healing, you need to keep them busy as people respawn and run back.

 

I disagree, at least if it is only one player harassing the off node. Of course if more than one goes you then do run the risk of spreading too thin elsewhere.

 

All things being equal an Operative should never lose a duel. It's the best one vs. one DPS class in the game although I suppose a case could be made for Sins post 6.0 as well. In any case if an Operative is played well it is going to win the duel versus any other DPS that isn't an Operative or Sin. I've never failed to cap when left to one vs one a node guard that couldn't reset the fight by stealthing out. That of course is without taking into account the ability to cap nodes via CC.

 

Sometimes of course the node guard calls for help and help comes, but even if help comes before you can get the cap that contributes toward your team winning as well . If I'm tying up three or four people at their off node my team has a 7 to 5 or 7 to 4 advantage across the rest of the map, which should translate either into two nodes being capped in our favor or assuming they're already capped, the opposing team failing to put much pressure on either. The disparity isn't always reflected in numbers either. What if the other team only has one healer and that healer is among the three that answered the incoming call? If the team can't cap (or retain) two nodes when they've got a 7-5 or 7-4 advantage the problem isn't one player harassing the opposing team's off node.

 

Same deal with Ancient Hypergate where you get double caps at the end of a round completely negating any points the opposing team gained during that round, or you get most of the team running back to help if you play delay games early, while your team runs orbs and farms the couple opposing players that stayed at mid. That has more value than just running a rotation at mid.

 

IMO stealth classes in Regs node games are BEST used at one of the off nodes, either defending at start or harassing the node the enemy assumes is "theirs," at least if the team composition isn't loaded with stealth. Obviously if you've got more than 2 stealth specs on the team some should be tunneling mid at start. The advantages baked into any class that can stealth out permanently make them better suited to defend nodes or steal weakly defended ones than damage farming at mid. Ops and Sins are the best in the game at either role.

 

Same with Voidstar attack rounds. If I'm on Op I'm not going to run numbers, I'm either going to go to the weakly defended node if my team goes heavy to one side, or if they split doors I'll wait to every enemy at a door is in combat, then try to cap behind them. Tunnel vision is so common in Regs that most of the time you can cap right behind them.

 

Sure, stealth classes can rack up big numbers too...but at that point they're functionally no different than any other DPS class. If I want to damage farm I'll log into a Marauder, Merc, ect. You'll often get the big numbers anyway after having to defend a node you stole.

 

But just don't take my word for it! Try playing a stealth spec like that for a bit. You can singlehandedly carry teams. It's also some of the most fun you'll have in Regs. I regret not playing Op sooner than 5.0.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[TrixxieTriss]

Snave did a really good instructions vid a few years ago to explain the numbers game on different nodes and how it can often be detrimental for one player to keep trying to ninja or annoy an off node when they would be better off helping defend what you have. It was mainly based around maps an during the mini map and some basic strategy and tactics.

 

I can’t find it at the moment, but if anyone wants to link it, I think it fully explains why rotating nodes is a dumb idea.

[Nemmar]

I disagree, at least if it is only one player harassing the off node. Of course if more than one goes you then do run the risk of spreading too thin elsewhere.

 

All things being equal an Operative should never lose a duel. It's the best one vs. one DPS class in the game although I suppose a case could be made for Sins post 6.0 as well. In any case if an Operative is played well it is going to win the duel versus any other DPS that isn't an Operative or Sin. I've never failed to cap when left to one vs one a node guard that couldn't reset the fight by stealthing out. That of course is without taking into account the ability to cap nodes via CC.

 

Sometimes of course the node guard calls for help and help comes, but even if help comes before you can get the cap that contributes toward your team winning as well . If I'm tying up three or four people at their off node my team has a 7 to 5 or 7 to 4 advantage across the rest of the map, which should translate either into two nodes being capped in our favor or assuming they're already capped, the opposing team failing to put much pressure on either. The disparity isn't always reflected in numbers either. What if the other team only has one healer and that healer is among the three that answered the incoming call? If the team can't cap (or retain) two nodes when they've got a 7-5 or 7-4 advantage the problem isn't one player harassing the opposing team's off node.

 

Same deal with Ancient Hypergate where you get double caps at the end of a round completely negating any points the opposing team gained during that round, or you get most of the team running back to help if you play delay games early, while your team runs orbs and farms the couple opposing players that stayed at mid. That has more value than just running a rotation at mid.

 

IMO stealth classes in Regs node games are BEST used at one of the off nodes, either defending at start or harassing the node the enemy assumes is "theirs," at least if the team composition isn't loaded with stealth. Obviously if you've got more than 2 stealth specs on the team some should be tunneling mid at start. The advantages baked into any class that can stealth out permanently make them better suited to defend nodes or steal weakly defended ones than damage farming at mid. Ops and Sins are the best in the game at either role.

 

Same with Voidstar attack rounds. If I'm on Op I'm not going to run numbers, I'm either going to go to the weakly defended node if my team goes heavy to one side, or if they split doors I'll wait to every enemy at a door is in combat, then try to cap behind them. Tunnel vision is so common in Regs that most of the time you can cap right behind them.

 

Sure, stealth classes can rack up big numbers too...but at that point they're functionally no different than any other DPS class. If I want to damage farm I'll log into a Marauder, Merc, ect. You'll often get the big numbers anyway after having to defend a node you stole.

 

But just don't take my word for it! Try playing a stealth spec like that for a bit. You can singlehandedly carry teams. It's also some of the most fun you'll have in Regs. I regret not playing Op sooner than 5.0.

 

You are assuming only one defender. That should never be the case. Wich is why it only works with bad teams. You need to take out the defender and need 10 seconds of uninterrupted cap time, so you have to hope no other defender joins the fray, while your team is likely gonna lose defense due to lower numbers. It's a very risky gamble.

Voidstar is a different situation than 3 points. Theres only 2 doors and you are either attacking or defending. If you are attacking, yes, stealing the node in this case is of vital importance. Also, it's not playing numbers, it's called defending when you are preventing the enemy from capping.

 

In an ideal match you are still doing the wrong choice by not helping with defense when you have 2 points. It's a gamble versus a garanteed win. Defending is easier than capping.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Nemmar

[Aeneas_Falco]

You are assuming only one defender. That should never be the case. Wich is why it only works with bad teams. You need to take out the defender and need 10 seconds of uninterrupted cap time, so you have to hope no other defender joins the fray, while your team is likely gonna lose defense due to lower numbers. It's a very risky gamble.

Voidstar is a different situation than 3 points. Theres only 2 doors and you are either attacking or defending. If you are attacking, yes, stealing the node in this case is of vital importance. Also, it's not playing numbers, it's called defending when you are preventing the enemy from capping.

 

In an ideal match you are still doing the wrong choice by not helping with defense when you have 2 points. It's a gamble versus a garanteed win. Defending is easier than capping.

 

Most teams only have 1 defender whether or not they should have more. Sometimes you get more that run to "theirs" at the start, but they almost always leave immediately if that node gets capped.

 

Maybe it varies by server but on Star Forge you don't usually see enemy teams keeping more defending their off node until they've been dunked on already and you've made them nervous. Or late in losing games where you get quitters.

 

Even if two opposing players go to theirs at start though you still aren't compromising your team by going there, since first cap is an advantage. Two defenders are very easy to delay for a very long time and if you draw more incoming that is another bonus. Really that's the main point of going to an off node with a stealther. Even if you don't get the cap you get them to overreact and tie up too much of their team someplace where they can't be useful. If you cap they'll probably come heavy and hand your team mid.

 

Problems only arise when whole stacks of your team go theirs at the start. If I start going theirs at start and pick up followers, I reverse course and go mid.

 

Sometimes going theirs are start is also the only way to win depending on team composition. If you've got no healers and you know the other team has guard & healing, your team isn't going to win the mid fight unless the other team has flat out terrible DPS. One person stealing nodes where most of their team isn't is the way to win when trinity matchmaking didn't go in your favor.

 

As for Voidstar, I was only referring to the attack round.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[Pekish]

I really think there is no black and white answer it depends on the situation even the same warzone can be completely different every time. I don't think anybody should rule out this is always wrong this is what you should do because is "always" better

 

Ultimately is a game if he likes to annoy keep the pressure on the 3rd node let him do it. Maybe It's not the best strategy at that moment and maybe it makes you win you will never really know.

 

the fact that defending would be 60% more probably to win doesn't discard the 40% remaining and in a videogame where no life is in real danger just do whatever you enjoy doing as long, you don't start yelling to the other in chat that they sux or they are noobs I think we should always do what is fun while being friendly and without insulting.

[JediMasterAlex]

the fact that defending would be 60% more probably to win doesn't discard the 40% remaining and in a videogame where no life is in real danger just do whatever you enjoy doing as long, you don't start yelling to the other in chat that they sux or they are noobs I think we should always do what is fun while being friendly and without insulting.

 

People are discussing the merits of strategies to win pvp matches and this is what you come up with. Your ideology can only lead to perpetual losing. How any human being can unironically believe it continues to astound me.

[Nemmar]

Most teams only have 1 defender whether or not they should have more. Sometimes you get more that run to "theirs" at the start, but they almost always leave immediately if that node gets capped.

 

Maybe it varies by server but on Star Forge you don't usually see enemy teams keeping more defending their off node until they've been dunked on already and you've made them nervous. Or late in losing games where you get quitters.

 

Even if two opposing players go to theirs at start though you still aren't compromising your team by going there, since first cap is an advantage. Two defenders are very easy to delay for a very long time and if you draw more incoming that is another bonus. Really that's the main point of going to an off node with a stealther. Even if you don't get the cap you get them to overreact and tie up too much of their team someplace where they can't be useful. If you cap they'll probably come heavy and hand your team mid.

 

Problems only arise when whole stacks of your team go theirs at the start. If I start going theirs at start and pick up followers, I reverse course and go mid.

 

Sometimes going theirs are start is also the only way to win depending on team composition. If you've got no healers and you know the other team has guard & healing, your team isn't going to win the mid fight unless the other team has flat out terrible DPS. One person stealing nodes where most of their team isn't is the way to win when trinity matchmaking didn't go in your favor.

 

As for Voidstar, I was only referring to the attack round.

 

But you are compromising the team. You are the team winning with 2 nodes to defend. Instead of 8 defenders you now have 7 (if it's only you cause some lemming will probably follow) You have to have 2 defenders on one node at least and 6 on the other one under attack. Cause of you it's now 5 defenders.

Assuming like you say that the attacking team only has 1 defender, that means your team will face a 7 vs 5 scenario they will lose on. If the opposing team defends properly, it will be a 6v5 and you won't get the point while leaving your team at a disadvantage.

 

This strategy of yours only works with baddies. Sure, it will work sometimes, but if it's a good team you just possibly threw away a sure victory for no reason.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Nemmar

[Pekish]

People are discussing the merits of strategies to win pvp matches and this is what you come up with. Your ideology can only lead to perpetual losing. How any human being can unironically believe it continues to astound me.

 

Aww my personal stalker ^_^ good morning

Edited February 5, 2020 by Pekish

[thomasgtott]

Hmm, the gist of this thread seems to be "so many bads on my team, it's holding me back". Well, both teams will have a mix of players taken from the same pool, so they'll be making mistakes same as the 'bads' on your team, and if you aren't taking advantage of that then maybe it's you. And if you think every team you're on is bad, then it's definitely you. Edited February 6, 2020 by thomasgtott

[Aeneas_Falco]

But you are compromising the team. You are the team winning with 2 nodes to defend. Instead of 8 defenders you now have 7 (if it's only you cause some lemming will probably follow) You have to have 2 defenders on one node at least and 6 on the other one under attack. Cause of you it's now 5 defenders.

Assuming like you say that the attacking team only has 1 defender, that means your team will face a 7 vs 5 scenario they will lose on. If the opposing team defends properly, it will be a 6v5 and you won't get the point while leaving your team at a disadvantage.

 

This strategy of yours only works with baddies. Sure, it will work sometimes, but if it's a good team you just possibly threw away a sure victory for no reason.

 

It literally works for the great majority of the time. Whether or not that makes the average team in Regs "bad" I'll leave for others to decide.

 

It does not compromise the team because one of two things happens if one stealther harasses their node when you've already capped two. The first option is that the defender gets no help and you most likely get a cap. The second is that the guard calls for help, help comes, and you create a mismatch across the rest of the map. Again, if two people answer that guard's call you've now taken pressure off the rest of your team at the two nodes they control. It's then a 7 versus 5 across those two nodes.

 

I think the disagreement here is because you're viewing that move as offensive. As in, "Why are you going for a third node when we control two?" Its in truth a defensive move because it pulls opposing players off the two nodes you control either in reaction to their node guard's call or that node getting capped on with no call or no response.

 

Sending ONE stealth class at theirs is an entirely valid strategy that more often than not takes pressure in the form of more than one opposing player off the nodes you control and as such is of more value than just contributing damage at one of those two nodes. More than that spreads your team too thin however.

 

If you get a 3 cap though it's best for the team to focus on defending mid and "yours." If the opposing team comes heavy at the node that got capped third, which is usually the case because that third node is most often the one considered "theirs" (and hardest for your team to defend), just allow that one stealth to play delay games and pad your point lead. They'll probably retake it eventually, but you won't spread your team too thin defending three. Meanwhile your team will have padded its lead with the duration it did control three.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[TrixxieTriss]

I found that Snave guide on player distribution in maps while attacking or defending nodes.

 

 

This is still relevant today as it was 4 years ago. Anyone who says it isn’t never played objective pvp at the highest lvl when we had ranked 8 man.

 

Hopefully this will shine some light on “how” to pvp properly.

 

Here is another guide worth reading, even for long term players to remind them of some fundamentals that many have conveniently forgotten.

 

https://swtor-tryhard.github.io/pvpguide/warzones.html

 

Snave and Co. also did some pvp training weeks on their server for anyone to join. They recorded them and are very good for newbies (sorry I can’t find these at the moment).

 

Honestly, the above guides should be mandatory reading (watching) for all new or returning PVPers.

 

I just wish Bioware would sticky all of these relevant guides that help people get better or teach them how to play. At the moment they only have Ne’laa’s guid stickied. I’ve also seen a good tank guide and Kre’a’s Assassin ones.

Even if Bioware took the actual guides out of the individual threads and put them into one “how to play” thread that was locked to prevent derailing or troll spam.

Edited February 6, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[Nemmar]

It literally works for the great majority of the time. Whether or not that makes the average team in Regs "bad" I'll leave for others to decide.

 

It does not compromise the team because one of two things happens if one stealther harasses their node when you've already capped two. The first option is that the defender gets no help and you most likely get a cap. The second is that the guard calls for help, help comes, and you create a mismatch across the rest of the map. Again, if two people answer that guard's call you've now taken pressure off the rest of your team at the two nodes they control. It's then a 7 versus 5 across those two nodes.

 

I think the disagreement here is because you're viewing that move as offensive. As in, "Why are you going for a third node when we control two?" Its in truth a defensive move because it pulls opposing players off the two nodes you control either in reaction to their node guard's call or that node getting capped on with no call or no response.

 

Sending ONE stealth class at theirs is an entirely valid strategy that more often than not takes pressure in the form of more than one opposing player off the nodes you control and as such is of more value than just contributing damage at one of those two nodes. More than that spreads your team too thin however.

 

If you get a 3 cap though it's best for the team to focus on defending mid and "yours." If the opposing team comes heavy at the node that got capped third, which is usually the case because that third node is most often the one considered "theirs" (and hardest for your team to defend), just allow that one stealth to play delay games and pad your point lead. They'll probably retake it eventually, but you won't spread your team too thin defending three. Meanwhile your team will have padded its lead with the duration it did control three.

 

Again you assume there is only one defender. You only need 2 to be stopped and your team will still be at a disavantage.

 

The move is offensive though, cause you just stopped defending. To be defensive, your gamble would have to atract at least 3 defenders of the opposite team because as the winning team with 2 nodes you have more to defend than they do.

The move you are making is called a greed move and as i said, it risks a pretty much garanteed win by trying to cast chaos.

 

Hey, you feel it's worth the risk, but i don't. We will have to disagree.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Nemmar

[sdom]

Contrary Opinion:

PvP is broke - in general.