Have anyone realized the virtue of solo play in the context of MMO?

[Nefla]

If you are a solo player you aren't grouping anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference. I don't agree with this topic at all. Maybe you like playing solo, maybe you like SWTOR for whatever your reasons are.... however swtor is not a 1 person game, and if you cater to solo play you take funding away from group content. If this was a solo play game like say, assassin creed, funding should go to solo, but swtor is an MMO, as such primary funding should go to MMO, multiplayer. and solo content should be less rewarding, harder, and more time consuming... otherwise, there are thousands of solo games you can play, many of them star wars. you dont need to play an MMO and try to direct its content or funding to solo play.

its not about anger, or frustration, its that solo content takes funding away group content and its not even the right genre. then people leave because of it.

You take solo players away and you take our funding away too. We were drawn to SWtOR by the huge amount of BioWare single player story content. Why are you playing what amounts to a single player BioWare RPG with generic tacked on multiplayer elements and then complaining about people who want to enjoy the main draw of the game?

 

 

I’m a conquester and enjoy group pve when I can. As someone who loves group missions, building In-game relationships with ppl either through guilds, rp, or running quests and get frustrated from time to time because of lack of communication and or people to form certain groups, why play a massively multiplayer game if you’re not going to indulge in the “massively multiplayer” aspect of it? Then, don’t understand when people express themselves when they are frustrated from lack of grouping, especially if (as someone mention) are antisocial or have social anxiety? Someone please explain that.

The reason I play SWtOR is the reason I play any single player BioWare RPG: the story, characters, roleplaying, choices, etc...It's the reason SWtOR is the ONLY MMO I have ever liked. I've tried other MMOs including WoW, ESO, and FFXI and I didn't like any of them because they're typical MMOs with typical MMO aspects. SWtOR isn't. What I don't understand is why people who aren't interested in the solo story content (in other words the only thing BioWare is good at) play this game at all? There are other games out there with actual innovative and intuitive combat and gameplay mechanics, I honestly don't understand why someone would play a game for the worst aspects of it.

 

 

It’s not about that there are solo players I have nothing against them. It is what it is, but why play an mmo if you’re in it for the sp experience and get upset when a multiplayer game pushes you be more socially interactive beyond the chat box? Maybe that part went over some heads. The discouraging part comes from trying to form something and no one wants to help or support not the fact that they solo play. The one thing this game has going for it is the story because it’s cinematic and choice driven, but it is it’s one of its greatest downfall because of you play another mmo without such a great story element there tends to be more activity among players. SWTOR is my favorite and only legally active SW mmo right now and I try to stick to one at a time, but I understand that it’s an mmo before anything else. Something others seem to forget.

Except it's not an MMO before anything else, it's a single player BioWare story and companion focused RPG before anything else. Which do you think BioWare spent more time, resources, and attention on, the 8 single player class stories, tons of single player sidequests, 4 single player story expansions, 4 smaller single player story updates, or the pvp, operations, and whatever else it is you guys entertain yourselves with? People get upset when the entire game lets them play a certain way and then there's a sudden switcheroo where you can't see the ending to what had previously been a single player story unless you do an operation. If a storyline is based in operations to begin with then we'll just not interact with it at all and not care.

 

 

And I'm tired of solo players demanding everything be soloable in a MMO. Every time a MMO focuses on solo play the games population drops off a cliff because solo players don't have high retention rates. End game group content does. That's where the long term players are.

 

Solo players have no place in MMO's and MMO's need to stop catering to them.

Every long term player I know is a solo and story focused player. I don't know where you're getting your information from but I'm guessing you made it up on the spot as most people do. Anyway, it would be one thing if solo players went into your typical MMO and asked it to be changed. That's not the case here. The reason there are so many solo players attracted to SWtOR in the first place is the heavy emphasis on single player story content from the beginning. 8 entire lv 1-50 class stories, hundreds of quests that can be done single player, 4 single player story expansions and 4 smaller single player story updates. It's not weird to want more of what we've been given since the start, more of what the game's strength is and what it was built on.

 

 

My experience playing MMOs told me that getting into group play does not mean social and being social does not mean necessarily having to engage in group play. One does not implies the other.

 

8 out of 10 players that I formed a group with are not social. When you get into a group to do FP, and you strike up some "social" talk, you will probably be ignored and if you insist, you may pissed off enough ppl in the group to kick you out. These ppl in a group is there for "business" purpose. They have a mission to accomplish i.e. to reach the end and finish the FP as fast a possible. They are not there to engage in any social talk, gesture or activities with you. There is nothing social about getting in a group. We are all there for "business". If you appear weak or slow, you get kicked out of the group. Its all business and nothing social.

 

Ironically, the most social one are those solo player you met while strolling in the wood smelling the roses and they also doing the same thing. You can strike up a conversation with them without any agenda and you sustain a good social conversation without any rush. Both are in a mood to be social because we are not rushing. However getting in a group mean that there is a business to be done and away with.

 

So you need to differentiate between social and grouping. Both are not the same.

This exactly. I'm very chatty and often chat with people in general chat, do random item and credit giveaways on the capital worlds, invite people to see my meticulously decorated strongholds and visit others who decorate theirs as well, etc...yet when I've grouped with random people the experience has been both unpleasant and not social. The only way you'd know you were playing with people instead of bots is that they constantly tell you to skip all story content.

[Suzsi]

If it were up to me, all MMO's would go back to old school style where solo play was impossible.

 

Even everquest - very group orientated - had solo classes. I know because I spent 99% of my time soloing there. Solo play has been an integral part of MMOs since MMOs existed.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Suzsi

[well]

It’s not about that there are solo players I have nothing against them. It is what it is, but why play an mmo if you’re in it for the sp experience and get upset when a multiplayer game pushes you be more socially interactive beyond the chat box? Maybe that part went over some heads. The discouraging part comes from trying to form something and no one wants to help or support not the fact that they solo play. The one thing this game has going for it is the story because it’s cinematic and choice driven, but it is it’s one of its greatest downfall because of you play another mmo without such a great story element there tends to be more activity among players. SWTOR is my favorite and only legally active SW mmo right now and I try to stick to one at a time, but I understand that it’s an mmo before anything else. Something others seem to forget.

 

Because we can. I didn't buy SWTOR because it was a MMO but because it was a RPG. I bought it despite it being a MMO. I not even a Star Wars fan as far as the movies go. Still I liked K1 and K2. That is why I bought it. As already been pointed out the options are there to play the way you want to. So what does it matter how someone else plays.

As far as money spend for solo's well their money is as good as anyone else's. So why shouldn't they get content.

This is a general statement. You can contact my reps Larry, Darryl, and Darryl if you disagree. They are residing south of Nashkel. You might even get a electronic autograph..)

[Seterade]

just going to point a quick misconception.... rpg doesnt mean solo game. its a genre based on rng drops, stat menus and heavy graphics overlaying simplistic repetitive design. (if you dont believe the last part, 2 examples among thousands... IO merc mag shot is the exact animation of the gunslinger quickdraw, ex 2: blade rush on sentiel combat is the same animation of mara vicious slash, and vica versa for carnage massacre and sentiel slash.

[Lunafox]

You and I are cut from the same cloth, my friend! All the reasons you gave for playing solo are mine as well, and I'm sure there are a lot more of us out there. I'm sure that we are all stinging from the difficulty increase (especially in the new content) because we are not in the top geared population. If this continues, I'm afraid TOR will see a major subscriber fall off because of it.

 

It's always nice to know you're not alone, so I appreciate your post. I think you're right, there are plenty of us running around, doing our own thing in the game. I hope that we're able to get a grip on the difficulty level so that no one has to leave, it would be a shame for you to go. I did die a few times, but I'm not sure if it was so much difficulty, as much as I'd forgotten how to play lol. Probably a bit of both. Maybe things will improve once we get the hang of things.

[ZeroTypeR]

If it were up to me, all MMO's would go back to old school style where solo play was impossible.

Do that and any MMO would be dead in the water. Here's an example:

 

Revelation Online

- Bombarded players with micro transactions, but players still stuck around

- Forced group content ...

 

Where is it now? Still around, but it's player count might as well be equivalent to a graveyard. It didn't even last 2 years before this happened o-o.

 

Would you like to know how many solo players play MMOs? I assure you, there are more than you'd think and yes, many of them spend quite a bit of money to boot.

Edited October 26, 2019 by ZeroTypeR

[Nickodemous]

Solo play allow you to play the game at your own pace.

 

The tag line has been "Play what you want, play how you want." But solo play allow you to play at the pace which you find enjoyable. Solo play extends that tag line to "Play what you want, play how you want, at whatever pace you find enjoyable".

 

I emphasize the word "enjoyable" because that is the end objective of playing any game.

 

Being in group carries the burden of not wanting to waste other ppl's time. So the pace is beyond your control in group content. It is an invisible pressure and burden on the player being in a group to be "cooperative" (like the unspoken need to repeatedly press spacebar in FP cutscenes). Solo play allows that small oasis of sanctuary in which you are under no pressure to keep up and thus allow you to enjoy the game better.

 

I appeal you not to squeeze smaller that already small oasis of sanctuary. Leave some space for those under- or non-achievers to find peace and enjoyment.

 

PS: There are ppl who will say then if you are not going to play group, then MMO is not the right game for you. But ppl play this game because it is a Star Wars game rather than it is an MMO. If ppl want to play MMO, there are better one out there to choose from (more players, shorter queue time, better group content support like comprehensive group finders for everything etc etc.). So this game is not as much an MMO than it is a much beloved Star Wars game to some players.

 

I will not group ever for any pve garbage.....pve is an easy train for just about everything but....a crying train back because they don't get what they want.

 

Have I worried about gear....no....because getting gear is like a dancer getting dollar bills at a club now. I really am at a loss with all the ************....it TOO easy to get gear.....

 

Pampers needs to make some more diapers.....

[cadencepulse]

Yes but it’s still a mmo regardless if it’s story based or not. Just about all games are story driven including games like empire at war. I never played it because I don’t like rts games. For antisocial people, they shouldn’t play a social game if they aren’t with the social environment that SWTOR is. Simple as that. I have nothing against solo players but is kind of discouraging when there are x amount of ppl online but they refuse to be social and make it a more little harder us social players in a game that is meant for social players. I’m not saying they should be excluded at all. I’m saying the complete opposite actually. I’m saying they should INCLUDE themselves into the mix. But each is their own, and I’m thankful for having most of my toons in large, helpful, group oriented guilds because it makes the game so much more interesting and things actually get accomplished rather than standing around asking who’s forming ops or asking people a million times to the point it feels like spamming for help with mission or something as simple as just sitting in a group for a few minutes to help for a guild, or asking a simple question about something in the game. Ppl shouldn’t have to tab out of a game or open a browser on a phone to ask for help in the game their playing when so many already know how it’s done.

 

Really, you want to FORCE people to 'include' themselves in YOUR gamestyler? Sounds like you reckon they don't have any entitlement to play it their way? Wow, that's pretty arrogant when you consider this is a multi-user game--that's user (or player if you prefer). Nowhere in the term MMO does it refer to forced grouping. MMO's ENABLE players to co-operate, they don't FORCE them to. Personally I can't stand those elitist types that can often be found in a group. The ones that hit you with a Catch-22 situation. They'll kick you for not having the necessary gear and yet, to get that gear, you need to do the Op/FP/etc. That is why I prefer to solo play. I don't really care what my gear is like as long as I enjoy playing the game. It's a reason that I only do PvE as well--PvP totally sucks but that's my opinion, I'd never try to FORCE somebody NOT to PvP.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Solo play allow you to play the game at your own pace.

 

So much this !

 

I absolutely HATE this zerging mentality these days ! Plus this "skip, pls" like "I've got no time !" mentality !

 

It's the primary reason why I don't group anymore !

 

For antisocial people, they shouldn’t play a social game if they aren’t with the social environment that SWTOR is.

 

So, you're basically saying "adapt to the current zerging mentality or don't play at all" ?

 

Yes, I'm cynical in this. But please tell me : How will you get people into a non-zerging mentality again ? Into a slow pace mentality ?

It won't happen. EVERYTHING these days - even in RL ! - is now measured against "profits/per time".

Edited October 26, 2019 by AlrikFassbauer

[HuaRya]

I think this is a veiled attempt to say that a Solo player is entitled to everything or most everything Group content players get.

 

 

This was my first MMO ever in 2012 for months I was solo and then gradually aligned with people trying to acquire better gear or prizes in group activities. With the cartel market this game has inadvertently made it a Soloist culture. Other online games reserve a good portion of their 'cool' items inside of operations/flashpoints. The culmination of soloing in SWTOR (ironic using solo) is that Zakuul arena. I managed to get one cybernetic rancor one toon and it was a tad bit cooler than the nightmare Dread Fortress rancor and that made people mad. I understand.

 

 

Think of Grouping as swimming in a cold lake/ocean/pool: You can either gradually acclimate by dipping your toe in or you can dive right in. The time sync for operations can be a massive pain especially if the person running it needs to take frequent bio breaks or refills for the cocktail and each pull gets sloppier and longer etc.

[casirabit]

If you are a solo player you aren't grouping anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference. I don't agree with this topic at all. Maybe you like playing solo, maybe you like SWTOR for whatever your reasons are.... however swtor is not a 1 person game, and if you cater to solo play you take funding away from group content. If this was a solo play game like say, assassin creed, funding should go to solo, but swtor is an MMO, as such primary funding should go to MMO, multiplayer. and solo content should be less rewarding, harder, and more time consuming... otherwise, there are thousands of solo games you can play, many of them star wars. you dont need to play an MMO and try to direct its content or funding to solo play.

 

 

 

^ lost a CRAP ton of subs.

 

 

 

its not about anger, or frustration, its that solo content takes funding away group content and its not even the right genre. then people leave because of it.

 

 

We also lost a ton of subs a little after launch as well and that was when things were mostly group related items, so your comment doesn't work when taken you take that into account.

 

And some solo players group up when they in the mood for it or they group up with selective people, like their guild and/or friends or spouses/significant others.

Edited October 26, 2019 by casirabit

[casirabit]

And I'm tired of solo players demanding everything be soloable in a MMO. Every time a MMO focuses on solo play the games population drops off a cliff because solo players don't have high retention rates. End game group content does. That's where the long term players are.

 

Solo players have no place in MMO's and MMO's need to stop catering to them.

 

You mean like they did at launch and those group players left in droves?

[ceryxp]

If they had an offline version of this game that I could play two "accounts" at the same time...

 

I'd probably have ALMOST as much fun with that as I do, doing that, with the pre 6.0 game.

 

 

Now...since /follow is broken for me....I'm stuck using one account at a time, and it's not as much fun.

 

Same for me. I'd pay extra per month if I could have private instances that no one could enter without being invited. It's one of the things I really like about DDO. Outside of special events, every single PVE area is a private instance that only the player and their group may enter.

[OlBuzzard]

We also lost a ton of subs a little after launch as well and that was when things were mostly group related items, so your comment doesn't work when taken you take that into account.

 

And some solo players group up when they in the mood for it or they group up with selective people, like their guild and/or friends or spouses/significant others.

 

This ^^^

 

Finding the right group(s) that just happen to be going "your way" is not always as easy as it seems. I do like being able to make decisions in a FP that won't grant me DS points when I'm on one of my LS characters.

 

Also: the narrower the focus of a game play / strategy or implementation of hidden or illusive goals to reach … the narrower the player base will become. Meaning if a game gets to the point where achieving or reaching necessary or needed items becomes only available to those in a group … It won't take long. One by one .. the player base will grow smaller. Amazingly enough there are some who would rejoice at this ????

 

FAILURE to realize the importance of as many player groups as possible: PvP / PvE raid groups (OPs .. etc) as WELL AS the ever growing solo player group … can only end in making the player / customer base smaller.

 

Game difficulty: I posted that .. somewhere around here in another thread. No need to derail this one ! (Besides … I'm having one of the senior moments and I can't for the life of me remember where I put it ).

[casirabit]

This ^^^

 

Finding the right group(s) that just happen to be going "your way" is not always as easy as it seems. I do like being able to make decisions in a FP that won't grant me DS points when I'm on one of my LS characters.

 

Also: the narrower the focus of a game play / strategy or implementation of hidden or illusive goals to reach … the narrower the player base will become. Meaning if a game gets to the point where achieving or reaching necessary or needed items becomes only available to those in a group … It won't take long. One by one .. the player base will grow smaller. Amazingly enough there are some who would rejoice at this ????

 

FAILURE to realize the importance of as many player groups as possible: PvP / PvE raid groups (OPs .. etc) as WELL AS the ever growing solo player group … can only end in making the player / customer base smaller.

 

Game difficulty: I posted that .. somewhere around here in another thread. No need to derail this one ! (Besides … I'm having one of the senior moments and I can't for the life of me remember where I put it ).

 

Very well said. I sometimes think some of these players are (1) not here during the time when we had players leave in droves: (2) they have forgotten and/or (3) wearing rose colored glasses.

[Jdast]

And I'm tired of solo players demanding everything be soloable in a MMO. Every time a MMO focuses on solo play the games population drops off a cliff because solo players don't have high retention rates. End game group content does. That's where the long term players are.

 

Solo players have no place in MMO's and MMO's need to stop catering to them.

 

Raansu,

 

The solution is simple. Go play Wildstar. Oh wait...

 

Dasty

[Master_Morak]

You mean like they did at launch and those group players left in droves?

Wait one or two months when most solo players are gone and they have not enough subscriptions to cater the group player.

 

SWTOR was always a story based games, thanks to those idiots crying for more dificulty may they live on empty Servers.

[Damask_Rose]

Very well said. I sometimes think some of these players are (1) not here during the time when we had players leave in droves: (2) they have forgotten and/or (3) wearing rose colored glasses.

 

I think it's more along the lines of observer bias. They are group players so their friends are group players. When something that adversely affects group players happens and group players leave, they notice that and that is what they remember. When something happens to adversely affect pvp players, they don't notice that and don't remember that. It didn't affect them or their friends. When something happens to adversely affect solo players, they don't notice that and don't remember that. It didn't affect them or their friends.

 

Also too, many of the big exoduses had multiple causes and affected multiple playstyles. Without having access to the exit surveys, if those even yield any quality data, we players have no way of knowing what was the primary factor driving people away. For example, did people leave after 5.0 because GC was awful at first? Or because it didn't have enough of the right group content to make up for 4.0? Or because the story got severely truncated and nothing satisfying came after? Or because conquest got butchered? Or because pvp was neglected? It was all of the above, but we have no way of knowing if one reason was a dominant reason or not.

[Estelindis]

I think it's more along the lines of observer bias.

This is totally reasonable. You are a voice of sanity.

[tatteredangel]

And I'm tired of solo players demanding everything be soloable in a MMO. Every time a MMO focuses on solo play the games population drops off a cliff because solo players don't have high retention rates. End game group content does. That's where the long term players are.

 

Solo players have no place in MMO's and MMO's need to stop catering to them.

 

and it's people like you that make me not group anymore..solo players have just as much right to play the way they want to just as you do

[well]

just going to point a quick misconception.... rpg doesnt mean solo game. its a genre based on rng drops, stat menus and heavy graphics overlaying simplistic repetitive design. (if you dont believe the last part, 2 examples among thousands... IO merc mag shot is the exact animation of the gunslinger quickdraw, ex 2: blade rush on sentiel combat is the same animation of mara vicious slash, and vica versa for carnage massacre and sentiel slash.

No it doesn't. It means role playing game. It doesn't mean Solo or Group. Wow is a MMO and people play it solo. They may group for a Raid same as people do for Ops.

[jedimasterjac]

I guess I just struggle to understand vehemently clinging to the identity of "solo player."

 

I also struggle to understand why an online game ought to cater to the players who are not interested in the online aspect.

 

If you are not a player interested in group content, what is the current issue? You have:

 

- All the daily areas

- All the chapters and replayable content

- All the heroics

- All the exploration

- Roleplay

- Decorating

 

What more do you want?

 

What does it matter if you need to group for gear when gear is a means to doing group content?

Edited October 26, 2019 by jedimasterjac

[well]

and it's people like you that make me not group anymore..solo players have just as much right to play the way they want to just as you do

 

Spot on.

[Raansu]

There is no MMO that dictate that you have to group up to level your char by making it difficult to level so you have no choice but to group up. All leveling content are built and designed for solo play.

 

Being in a group of 6 was straight up a requirement in FFXI to level up and it was amazing. That game was the true meaning of a MMO community.

 

and it's people like you that make me not group anymore..solo players have just as much right to play the way they want to just as you do

 

No, they really don't. Solo players don't belong in MMO's.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Raansu

[Toraak]

No, they really don't. Solo players don't belong in MMO's.

 

I do a lot of group activities myself PvP (only for conquest), GSF, Operations. However your wrong. There is nothing wrong about having a Solo aspect to the game. The difference here is there should be content that those Solo players will never have access to. Like Operations should never have a solo option for example

 

Nothing wrong with being able to level solo, or do dailies or heroics solo. There should be content for everyone in an MMO, but that also includes content solo players may never see.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Toraak