Gear doesn't matter!

[JediMasterAlex]

So basically when proven otherwise, you keep rambling that you're right.

 

Narcissism at its finest.

 

I have no clue what this is referring to lol. Did you even read the post that you quoted? You seem a bit unhinged.

 

I look forward to your posts in 6.0 when everyone is bolstered to the same gear level and you still think you are being beaten because people have better gear than you.

Edited October 9, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

I have no clue what this is referring to lol. Did you even read the post that you quoted? You seem a bit unhinged.

 

Well, I kind of like how SithLordAlex sounds, don't you? Imo you ought to make a second forum account just for this alter-ego avatar. You could use one or the other depending on your mood!

[TrixxieTriss]

I never said they couldn't... Of course they can. On my madness sorc, I've done 8k before (once), and 6k is doable under the right circumstances. But sometimes 3.5k or even 2.5k is all that's possible if you're being focused, or chasing, or getting cc'd, or knock backed, etc, etc. And again, most importantly. some people, even in ranked, just number farm by tab targeting to the nearest enemy as soon as their target kites at all. That way they have maximum uptime, but most of their damage is totally useless. Raw dps numbers don't mean much most of the time. If pvp was just parsing on a dummy, then gear would really matter. But it's not, so it doesn't.

 

 

I don’t often agree with Alex, but as a long term Sorc player, both Lightning and Madness, I can affirm that Alex is mostly correct with his assessment regarding this.

Sorcs have good defence, but crap dps compared to other classes if they aren’t left alone. Leaving a Sorc to free cast will definitely allow them to do massive damage, it’s why they are always shut down as much as possible.

Sometimes I end up doing more healing than damage because I’m kiting and playing rabbit for as long as possible. I think doing 2.5-3.5k is reasonable if you are also doing 2.5-,4K self healing.

This may change come 6.0. I’ve already seen a few whiners complaining on the pts they are OP (as if).

 

IMO, gear only matters in these circumstances.

1. There is a massive gear disparity.

2. Two equally competent players need similar gear or the one with higher gear should win most encounters (unless the other one makes a major mistake).

3. Medium differences in skill lvl can allow the lower of the two a boost in performance if they have the highest gear

 

A good player will mostly beat a less skilled player unless the gear disparity is big. Even then, this can be over come depending on the difference in skill.

I’ve beaten 258 + full Augment players while in 230 +252 MH and purple augs because they were bad. Was it a little harder than if we were equally geared, of course it was. But I still won.

Gear matters the most to those with the least amount of skill or those wanting to do competitive pvp (where it’s essential)

 

If you have max gear and come up against a much lower skilled and geared player, the only difference to them having the same gear as you is how fast you smash them.

 

But I can see this from the opposite side too because I remember when I was bad and I needed the best gear to even compete with people who were better than me on lower gear. It gives you some comfort even if you get smashed you know it was skill and not gear that killed you.

But as you get better and you see those slightly lower skill than you and they smash you only because of the gear, that can be exceedingly frustrating, especially when they try to lord it over you,

 

Skill matters the most, but gear is still a factor depending on the difference between the players in skill.

It’s why I’ve been a proponent or making gear insignificant in pvp. I’ve said for many years they should just boost Bolster 2-3 lvls about max (including secondary stats), so that it’s a lvl playing field.

I would like nothing better than pvp only being about skill vs skill.

[Seterade]

you need to keep in mind that if you play this game long enough, every aspect of this game, there is a common ground you reach. where everyone in the high end competitive has roughly the same grasp on dcds, counters, rotations and full knowledge of every spec. people who are not in this group have been known to refer to them as "ranked mafia" to quote this forum a bit back. The fact is, when you get to that level, and you engage with them on a daily basis "skill v skill" isnt the thing you think it is. because you are surrounded by people of very close skill groups. It is these players that make people understand gear difference, because they roll in regs in full gear combined with "game sense" a term applied to "a lot of game exp". It is hard to see if gear matters when your foe uses interrupt as a damage ability. This misconcept is also applied to class balance and fotm. this game should be balanced around the best of best skill... or you end up with mercs, snipers and con ops. passable in an average players hands, but in an experts hand, kicks you around the wz /loling merrily.

[JediMasterAlex]

you need to keep in mind that if you play this game long enough, every aspect of this game, there is a common ground you reach. where everyone in the high end competitive has roughly the same grasp on dcds, counters, rotations and full knowledge of every spec. people who are not in this group have been known to refer to them as "ranked mafia" to quote this forum a bit back. The fact is, when you get to that level, and you engage with them on a daily basis "skill v skill" isnt the thing you think it is. because you are surrounded by people of very close skill groups. It is these players that make people understand gear difference, because they roll in regs in full gear combined with "game sense" a term applied to "a lot of game exp". It is hard to see if gear matters when your foe uses interrupt as a damage ability. This misconcept is also applied to class balance and fotm. this game should be balanced around the best of best skill... or you end up with mercs, snipers and con ops. passable in an average players hands, but in an experts hand, kicks you around the wz /loling merrily.

 

The best merc/mando player on star forge in my opinion, currently rated 1698, plays in 250 gear. The best op plays in 249 gear last I checked. I'm pretty sure the two highest rated sorcs are in 248 gear. I could go on and on.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

The best merc/mando player on star forge in my opinion, currently rated 1698, plays in 250 gear. The best op plays in 249 gear last I checked. I'm pretty sure the two highest rated sorcs are in 248 gear. I could go on and on.

 

Are you really touting rating as a true indication of skill now? Come on, Alex. You can't have your cake and eat it too, lol.

 

You know 100% rating isn't a true indication of skill. The amount of variables that contribute to a persons rating is so broad and sadly skill is just a teeny tiny facet of those variables.

 

This too, is cherry picking statistics to skew your narrative in a favorable light but it's just not possible to use someone's rating as proof that players are pwning ranked in 248s and the proof is looking at their high rating, lol.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

Are you really touting rating as a true indication of skill now? Come on, Alex. You can't have your cake and eat it too, lol.

 

You know 100% rating isn't a true indication of skill. The amount of variables that contribute to a persons rating is so broad and sadly skill is just a teeny tiny facet of those variables.

 

This too, is cherry picking statistics to skew your narrative in a favorable light but it's just not possible to use someone's rating as proof that players are pwning ranked in 248s and the proof is looking at their high rating, lol.

 

This post is so ignorant that it pains me to respond to it. Ranked rating is actually pretty accurate given enough games. People rated 1500+, especially 1600-1700+ are absolutely skilled players, unless they are wintraders. I know that the people I'm talking about are not wintraders, because I see them play at a high level frequently. The people who think rating isn't a reflection of skill are simply incapable of getting high rating themselves, or are woefully misinformed about ranked, or both in this case. It's not a coincidence that good players are able to get multiple gold toons.

 

There is some variability in rating, and luck is a factor at times, but again, given enough games, of course rating matters. If 2 mercs play 100 games each, and one ends up rated 1700, and the other 1200, there is a huge gap in skill between those players, and you need nothing more than the rating to tell you that. All of that is honestly a moot point in this case, because I know that the players I mentioned are good regardless of their rating because I actually have played with and against them many times.

 

And you are completely missing my main point. My examples are not cherry picking; they are directly disproving the notion that "gear matters" in pvp, and that the only way to compete at the highest level is in the best gear. If some of the best players in the game are succeeding using 248-250 gear, that directly refutes that idea that you need 258 to compete. This isn't a difficult concept.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

This post is so ignorant that it pains me to respond to it. Ranked rating is actually pretty accurate given enough games. People rated 1500+, especially 1600-1700+ are absolutely skilled players, unless they are wintraders. I know that the people I'm talking about are not wintraders, because I see them play at a high level frequently. The people who think rating isn't a reflection of skill are simply incapable of getting high rating themselves, or are woefully misinformed about ranked, or both in this case. It's not a coincidence that good players are able to get multiple gold toons.

 

There is some variability in rating, and luck is a factor at times, but again, given enough games, of course rating matters. If 2 mercs play 100 games each, and one ends up rated 1700, and the other 1200, there is a huge gap in skill between those players, and you need nothing more than the rating to tell you that. All of that is honestly a moot point in this case, because I know that the players I mentioned are good regardless of their rating because I actually have played with and against them many times.

 

And you are completely missing my main point. My examples are not cherry picking; they are directly disproving the notion that "gear matters" in pvp, and that the only way to compete at the highest level is in the best gear. If some of the best players in the game are succeeding using 248-250 gear, that directly refutes that idea that you need 258 to compete. This isn't a difficult concept.

 

But you already agreed, gear does matter. By admitting that it gives any statistical advantage, that in itself means "gear does matter." I don't understand why you keep waffling on this point, haha.

 

I know players who I'd put up against your heroes in 248s and I bet you they would be comparable in skill, but unlike your pals the guys I know don't even do ranked anymore and have no rating to speak of. Does this prove they are bads? I hardly think so.

 

Rating means absolutely nothing, and you know that too. Stop adding variables to argue about when the reality is that gear does matter lol.

 

EDIT: I am just pointing out you are using anecdotal evidence to support your claim that gears don't matter, and anytime I ever do that I even admit it. You are touting this statistic to support your argument and it's flimsy at best.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Lhancelot

[Rion_Starkiller]

A person with 100+ games has a fairly accurate rating (law of averages), thus is a decent indicator of skill.

[Lhancelot]

A person with 100+ games has a fairly accurate rating (law of averages), thus is a decent indicator of skill.

 

That's not the point, though and I don't dispute that.

 

Since we digressing, I'd love to see the statistics showing how many games ALL the top rated players put in on those high rated characters. Wonder how many actually put in more than 100+ games per high rated toon?

 

Fact is, using this statistic to argue that it proves gears mean nothing in PVP is a flimsy defense at best. Come on.

[Seterade]

The best merc/mando player on star forge in my opinion, currently rated 1698, plays in 250 gear. The best op plays in 249 gear last I checked. I'm pretty sure the two highest rated sorcs are in 248 gear. I could go on and on.

 

Not actually my point. Like many arguements everyones agreement tries to revolve around a common point. This point in this topic is skill > gear, but the cold reality is if you are not the guy in ranked getting globaled in 30 seconds, there is a high chance you are just or close to as good as the "ranked mafia". This is the point. Skill>gear ONLY matters if you are noticably better than your foe. Reality is there is a large community in this game who are just as good as one another and then... gear matters. That percentage difference decides the outcome.

 

The bottom line is the attempt to excuse away bioware bad decisions by saying "skill>gear" is just that, its an attempt to excuse bioware. Skill meets skill all the time in ranked, and regs at times... you can't say skill>gear unless your head is in the sand and you insist the only evidence is SF regs.

[JediMasterAlex]

But you already agreed, gear does matter. By admitting that it gives any statistical advantage, that in itself means "gear does matter." I don't understand why you keep waffling on this point, haha.

 

I've addressed this exact point multiple times, go reread the thread.

 

I know players who I'd put up against your heroes in 248s and I bet you they would be comparable in skill, but unlike your pals the guys I know don't even do ranked anymore and have no rating to speak of. Does this prove they are bads? I hardly think so.

 

lol

 

Rating means absolutely nothing, and you know that too. Stop adding variables to argue about when the reality is that gear does matter lol.

 

Laughably ignorant.

 

EDIT: I am just pointing out you are using anecdotal evidence to support your claim that gears don't matter, and anytime I ever do that I even admit it. You are touting this statistic to support your argument and it's flimsy at best.

 

It's literally evidence that directly contradicts the OP's assertions about gear. If you can't understand that, that's on you.

 

Since we digressing, I'd love to see the statistics showing how many games ALL the top rated players put in on those high rated characters. Wonder how many actually put in more than 100+ games per high rated toon?

 

I do. I have 4 gold rated toons currently, all with well over 100 games played.

[JediMasterAlex]

Not actually my point. Like many arguements everyones agreement tries to revolve around a common point. This point in this topic is skill > gear, but the cold reality is if you are not the guy in ranked getting globaled in 30 seconds, there is a high chance you are just or close to as good as the "ranked mafia". This is the point. Skill>gear ONLY matters if you are noticably better than your foe. Reality is there is a large community in this game who are just as good as one another and then... gear matters. That percentage difference decides the outcome.

 

The bottom line is the attempt to excuse away bioware bad decisions by saying "skill>gear" is just that, its an attempt to excuse bioware. Skill meets skill all the time in ranked, and regs at times... you can't say skill>gear unless your head is in the sand and you insist the only evidence is SF regs.

 

I understand what you're trying to say, but you're still wrong. If you were right, I should be top 3 in my min/maxed 258 gear. Yet I'm not, because there are players that are better than me, even though many of them have worse gear. It doesn't make nearly the difference you think it does.

 

I don't think I've ever, ever been in a ranked game where gear has decided the outcome. It just doesn't work that way.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Rion_Starkiller]

That's not the point, though and I don't dispute that.

 

Since we digressing, I'd love to see the statistics showing how many games ALL the top rated players put in on those high rated characters. Wonder how many actually put in more than 100+ games per high rated toon?

 

Fact is, using this statistic to argue that it proves gears mean nothing in PVP is a flimsy defense at best. Come on.

 

There really is no point here:

1. JMA says gear doesn't matter.

2. People in this thread get him to clarify his generalization: yes gear matters, but skill is the primary indicator by a large margin.

3. We continue discussing/arguing the same points we already covered.

4. epeens get measured.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[KendraP]

Again, there are many variables involved - gear is simply one variable of several.

[JediMasterAlex]

There really is no point here:

1. JMA says gear doesn't matter.

2. People in this thread get him to clarify his generalization: yes gear matters, but skill is the primary indicator by a large margin.

3. We continue discussing/arguing the same points we already covered.

4. epeens get measured.

 

Well summarized lol. It just pains me when people reach for the gear excuse, and if people like me didn't argue forcefully against it, more people would adopt it. People in 247 gear claiming they lose due to gear is just... I almost don't have the words. Oh well.

[Lhancelot]

There really is no point here:

1. JMA says gear doesn't matter.

2. People in this thread get him to clarify his generalization: yes gear matters, but skill is the primary indicator by a large margin.

3. We continue discussing/arguing the same points we already covered.

4. epeens get measured.

 

My epeen is really small, admittedly.

 

That's true though, we have covered the point which is gear does matter, I suppose that's all that matters here. Even Jedi Al admits this much, so the rest of the discussion is just window dressing for fun.

 

No matter how many times "ignorance" is used to describe my perspective, he only reinforces my point by admitting the truth which is, gear does matter.

 

Glad we cleared that up, and came to an agreement with the OP, seems we all on the same page then.

[JediMasterAlex]

No matter how many times "ignorance" is used to describe my perspective, he only reinforces my point by admitting the truth which is, gear does matter.

 

Glad we cleared that up, and came to an agreement with the OP, seems we all on the same page then.

 

This point has been addressed.

Here's the thing, I've been beating around the bush in a lot of my responses on this topic. Yes, gear clearly can make a small difference, so it matters in a literal sense, but that's not what people mean when they say "gear matters."

 

The OP in this thread is of the impression that a worse player in 258 gear will beat a better player in 247 gear solely because of the difference in gear. That is just blatantly untrue. Such people are simply looking for excuses as to why they are losing in pvp. They should be striving to actually improve their play, rather than complaining about something that is largely irrelevant.

Even though it technically gives you a small increase in stats, gear does not matter to the outcome of pvp matches.

 

Arguing in bad faith on a game forum must be a new low for humanity.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Raansu]

Ranked rating is actually pretty accurate given enough games.

 

lol no it isn't. The last time I actively played ranked I had 4 toons that were rated. My marauder was in the 2k rating, my PT was in the 900 rating, my OP was in the 1500 rating and my assassin was in the 1200 rating.

 

Ranked rating completely depends on what class you're playing and who you get in the queue. On my marauder everyone on my team was always high rated and I constantly ran into low rated players. On my PT, my teammates were all over the place in rating, but the other team was stacked with high rated players.

 

If it was that borked back when it had an "ok" population, I can't imagine how bad it is now with ranked being completely dead.

[JediMasterAlex]

lol no it isn't. The last time I actively played ranked I had 4 toons that were rated. My marauder was in the 2k rating, my PT was in the 900 rating, my OP was in the 1500 rating and my assassin was in the 1200 rating.

 

Ranked rating completely depends on what class you're playing and who you get in the queue. On my marauder everyone on my team was always high rated and I constantly ran into low rated players. On my PT, my teammates were all over the place in rating, but the other team was stacked with high rated players.

 

If it was that borked back when it had an "ok" population, I can't imagine how bad it is now with ranked being completely dead.

 

Everything you said simply reinforces the caveat that ranked rating is relatively accurate given enough games played. If you just placed on those four toons, then sure, wildly different ratings makes perfect sense based on luck/matchmaking.

 

Also, people can have vastly different skill levels on different classes. A certain high rated mara on SF gets globaled when he tries to play sniper, for instance, and there's about a 600 elo difference in rating. I tried playing pt a bit this season, and my rating is terrible, partially because I don't really know how to play pt, but mostly because pt is just a terrible class for solo ranked.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Rion_Starkiller]

Aw, crap. I just realized I might have derailed potential forum pvp. RIP popcorn 🍿

 

There really is no point here:

1. JMA says gear doesn't matter.

2. People in this thread get him to clarify his generalization: yes gear matters, but skill is the primary indicator by a large margin.

3. We continue discussing/arguing the same points we already covered.

4. epeens get measured.

 

5. Lurkers eat popcorn and enjoy the show.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Lhancelot]

Everything you said simply reinforces the caveat that ranked rating is relatively accurate given enough games played.

 

Vague and ambiguous words used to support your point which has nothing to do with the OP, which is gear does matter.

 

The argument you started about rating and how that proves how good a player is in PVP isn't true and we all pointed that out to you, too.

 

Sure, if someone plays hundreds of games, I am sure that would give somewhat of an accurate picture of how well a player operates in the meta, but that still doesn't indicate their actual skill when so much of rating depends on so many other factors.

 

lol Oh, sure, remove all the other factors involved in what constitutes a player's rating and then you could probably say rating really indicates what a player's skill level is, but that's not reality, is it.

 

Can we get back to the original topic though and hear you clarify that your point on the actual topic is that yes, gear does matter? that's what the OP was about, after all.

 

At least do that much, stop with all the straw man arguments and just be clear and admit this. Save yourself a little bit of dignity before you lose it all, lol.

[JediMasterAlex]

Vague and ambiguous words used to support your point which has nothing to do with the OP, which is gear does matter.

 

The argument you started about rating and how that proves how good a player is in PVP isn't true and we all pointed that out to you, too.

 

Sure, if someone plays hundreds of games, I am sure that would give somewhat of an accurate picture of how well a player operates in the meta, but that still doesn't indicate their actual skill when so much of rating depends on so many other factors.

 

lol Oh, sure, remove all the other factors involved in what constitutes a player's rating and then you could probably say rating really indicates what a player's skill level is, but that's not reality, is it.

 

Can we get back to the original topic though and hear you clarify that your point on the actual topic is that yes, gear does matter? that's what the OP was about, after all.

 

At least do that much, stop with all the straw man arguments and just be clear and admit this. Save yourself a little bit of dignity before you lose it all, lol.

 

Nothing you said in this post makes any sense. I've thoroughly explained all of my positions in this thread already. Reread it if you're having issues, or maybe pm me if you want me to explain further. You posting more nonsense on the forums isn't really productive for anyone.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

Nothing you said in this post makes any sense.

 

I just can't put the time into explaining things so that you understand them better. It's not important, though. The fact you admit that gears do matter at least keeps the forums informed as to where you sit on this topic.

[JediMasterAlex]

I just can't put the time into explaining things so that you understand them better. It's not important, though. The fact you admit that gears do matter at least keeps the forums informed as to where you sit on this topic.

 

The fact that you say "gears" when gear is already plural is sad. Also, my posts in this thread speak for themselves, you misrepresenting my stances and spouting other nonsense notwithstanding.