Gear doesn't matter!

[TrixxieTriss]

Never fear, it’s only 17 days till we get a whole new system to complain and argue about.

 

Look at 6.0 gearing, it’s going to be a doozy.

Edited October 4, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Jarbarian]

I mean, didn't I say GEAR MATTERED?

[Jarbarian]

Scoundrel 258

My Sentinel 247

 

Wasn't even close. Scoundrel RICK ROLLED me lol.

[JediMasterAlex]

Scoundrel 258

My Sentinel 247

 

Wasn't even close. Scoundrel RICK ROLLED me lol.

 

If you think any fight between someone in 258 vs 247 gear is decided by anything other than skill or class difference, or both, you are deluding yourself.

[Lhancelot]

If you think any fight between someone in 258 vs 247 gear is decided by anything other than skill or class difference, or both, you are deluding yourself.

 

Well, they ought to hand out the gear like a pez dispenser then. As long of a slog it is to get 258s you'd think at the very least it would provide some advantage over lesser geared players.

 

I don't know if it's psychological or not, but I seem to have better out put and even some better survivability since adding a 258 MH and OH. I don't know if my heals are bigger thus giving me more survivability or if it's in my mind but it really seems like my sorc is performing better and i have only added two pieces of 258s (mainhand and offhand.)

 

I'd say if I was in max gears, I'd notice more performance differences if I already notice better performance with only two added pieces versus my 248s. Maybe it's the fact it's my MH/OH too, I don't know.

[JediMasterAlex]

Well, they ought to hand out the gear like a pez dispenser then. As long of a slog it is to get 258s you'd think at the very least it would provide some advantage over lesser geared players.

 

They didn't add it for pvpers. It's for people to complete nim gods. The difference between full 248 and full 258 is a few percent, so you get a small advantage over less geared players, but that is virtually never going to make the difference in a fight.

[Seterade]

an average lightning in solo ranked who wont be named is pulling 4.5k on average when she lives till the end. however an average 248 mara is pulling 3.8k to 4k. this based on lighnting sorc dps vs mara dps. id say 20% dps is noticable.

[Jarbarian]

If you think any fight between someone in 258 vs 247 gear is decided by anything other than skill or class difference, or both, you are deluding yourself.

 

Facts hurt?

[Jarbarian]

an average lightning in solo ranked who wont be named is pulling 4.5k on average when she lives till the end. however an average 248 mara is pulling 3.8k to 4k. this based on lighnting sorc dps vs mara dps. id say 20% dps is noticable.

 

It is, but some will tell you gear doesn't matter.

 

It does.

Always has.

To say otherwise is to be naive.

[JediMasterAlex]

an average lightning in solo ranked who wont be named is pulling 4.5k on average when she lives till the end. however an average 248 mara is pulling 3.8k to 4k. this based on lighnting sorc dps vs mara dps. id say 20% dps is noticable.

 

No offense, but those numbers are totally pulled out of your ***. Not to mention that even if it was true, numbers are totally context dependent, such as whether it's in a burst window on the right target, or tab-targeting trash damage, etc, etc. That's why a few % difference in damage due to gear is utterly meaningless.

[Jarbarian]

No offense, but those numbers are totally pulled out of your ***. Not to mention that even if it was true, numbers are totally context dependent, such as whether it's in a burst window on the right target, or tab-targeting trash damage, etc, etc. That's why a few % difference in damage due to gear is utterly meaningless.

 

Every BG I inspect their gear. Every one who has 258 gear tops BGs. PERIOD. Doesn't matter what side they are on. If they are in 258 gear they are leaps and bounds above people in 252 or below.

 

Has nothing to with "burst" windows if you're both bursting but "his" burst is bigger than "yours". You still die. Doesn't matter.

 

This is fact, I know you hate facts, but play some BGs and watch people in 258 gear.

 

My 252 shadow does far better than my 240-250 other toons but STILL cannot stand toe to toe with anyone in 258 gear that isn't just "key pressing".

[KendraP]

Every BG I inspect their gear. Every one who has 258 gear tops BGs. PERIOD. Doesn't matter what side they are on. If they are in 258 gear they are leaps and bounds above people in 252 or below.

 

Has nothing to with "burst" windows if you're both bursting but "his" burst is bigger than "yours". You still die. Doesn't matter.

 

This is fact, I know you hate facts, but play some BGs and watch people in 258 gear.

 

My 252 shadow does far better than my 240-250 other toons but STILL cannot stand toe to toe with anyone in 258 gear that isn't just "key pressing".

 

let me guess... the 258 geared guys are all playing juggernauts?

 

Here's a shocker to everyone - maybe, just maybe, winning in PvP is a function of more than one variable.

[Jarbarian]

let me guess... the 258 geared guys are all playing juggernauts?

 

Here's a shocker to everyone - maybe, just maybe, winning in PvP is a function of more than one variable.

 

Tank specs in 258 and Sorcs are topping, but pretty much anyone in 258 gear is top damage.

 

Then you look at people between 230-250 gear and they're doing 1/4 to 1/2 the damage.

 

I mean, hello FACTS!

[JediMasterAlex]

Tank specs in 258 and Sorcs are topping, but pretty much anyone in 258 gear is top damage.

 

Then you look at people between 230-250 gear and they're doing 1/4 to 1/2 the damage.

 

I mean, hello FACTS!

 

You're talking about regs as if regs matter. I'm telling you that in ranked, the vast majority of players are in less than 258 gear, and most of the best players are in significantly less than 258 gear. These are actual facts, as opposed to the nonsense that you keep making up.

 

Some people are just so desperate for excuses.

Edited October 8, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Seterade]

No offense, but those numbers are totally pulled out of your ***. Not to mention that even if it was true, numbers are totally context dependent, such as whether it's in a burst window on the right target, or tab-targeting trash damage, etc, etc. That's why a few % difference in damage due to gear is utterly meaningless.

 

I can tell you who the sorc is. and the mara is mine. I can go into a wz right now and parse that number. and you can fight that sorc any time you want. she spams solos in SS Nataly or something or nother. not particualrly epic, but not garbage either.

 

ps: in hind sight, your assumtion that 258 players cant reach 4.5k+ dps on an aoe class like Lighnting sorc, makes me wonder exactly how accurate your own judgment is in this topic. 258 veng juggs are currently pulling 7k, abiet with the help of pooled hatred, and above average dps farming sorcs are pulling upwards of 5-5.5k on lighnting sorc.... which lead me to wonder why you think 258 cant reach 4.5k, or that bolstered 248 cant reach upper 3k (if you think 5.5k is unbelieveable, remember that the sig of karrot/kittykat on this forum was a screenshot of one of his biggest wz parses

Edited October 8, 2019 by Seterade

[JediMasterAlex]

I can tell you who the sorc is. and the mara is mine. I can go into a wz right now and parse that number. and you can fight that sorc any time you want. she spams solos in SS Nataly or something or nother. not particualrly epic, but not garbage either.

 

Ok, but you obviously don't have a large enough sample size for a reliable average. And again, what about context?

 

What if the sorc has to chase people, or is getting constantly cc'd? And again, what if all that damage is going on the wrong target? Raw numbers don't win you games.

[Csjbo]

Gear does matter somewhat in PVP, for bolster does not boost armor rating which aids in your natural DR, plus the perception that a lower-geared character is an easier kill than a higher-geared character may make them more of a target in arenas.

 

However, PVP has so many variables to take into account when determining a players ability to do DPS, Tank or Heal. For example, when it comes to DPS, knowledge of priorities regarding attacking abilities and targets, knowledge of DCDs for offensive (avoiding big crit attacks into mitigating DCDs) and defensive (keeping yourself alive) use are more important in causing damage than gear. Not to mention fortune regarding if your team can support you, or if everyone can stay alive long enough for you to maintain a high uptime which gives you that high DPS.

 

There are several players I group with who play burst-spec classes, with no character above 248 who can frequently out-DPS me because they are, in fact, really good players, who are skilled enough to make up the difference we have in stats.

 

You do not need all 258's to pull top-damage in a warzone, and if you believe that to be the case, you are in for a rude awakening when you finally get all 258's and see that......you're still not top-DPS.

[Raansu]

Gear, no gear, lets look at the simple reality here.

 

This games pvp is a complete joke.

 

DPS OP's rolling all over the place while having healing over time abilities, a reflect, and rolls give them 100% immunity to EVERYTHING.

 

Snipers being basically tanks with the mobility of a rally car on top of getting a damn phase walk come 6.0. This class is supposed to be a glass cannon that hits hard but has low utility/survivability. I blame solo arena for this crap. They got a bunch of buffs they should have never gotten just so they could be viable in solo arena....same for mercs as well. Arenas was the biggest mistake BW ever did for pvp.

 

Mercs? E-net is the most broken thing to ever exist. I remember when they added this skill to the game.....an ability that locks you out of all movement skills, slows you down and applies a dot all the while you're getting pummeled by the merc who later gets buffed with THREE heal to full skills with one of them being a reflect and they get a utility to cast on the move. Either make the skills instant or root them to the ground. Casting while moving should have never been a thing for any class.

 

Healing is just completely overtuned. 1 healer can turn an entire match into a parsing event if they have a guard on them.....and guard is an utterly broken mechanic as well. No CD tied to it, no timer on it what so ever, just a permanent 50% damage reduction for the guarded player. The counter play for it is basically zero because it has no CD tied to it.

 

bubble stun is just a lazy mechanic

 

lol to double force stealth for sents come 6.0

 

assassins are just straight up trash

 

AP PT is probably the only balanced burst spec in the game.

 

Vengeance juggs would be fine if the meta wasn't so heavy with defensive CD's/self heals and insane burst.

 

With 6.0 coming up with an even worse gearing system and all these tacticals....forget gear, pvp is just going to be an even more unbalanced mess. They need to just do a full on reset with class utilities and go back to 1.2/1.3 era when most classes were actually squishy and didn't have a million ways to be self sustainable and actually required a healer. Currently the high utility of self sustainability just makes having a healer + guard a 15 minute parsing event.

[Seterade]

meh Im going to main rage jugg just like this expansion. come at me bro.

[JediMasterAlex]

ps: in hind sight, your assumtion that 258 players cant reach 4.5k+ dps on an aoe class like Lighnting sorc, makes me wonder exactly how accurate your own judgment is in this topic. 258 veng juggs are currently pulling 7k, abiet with the help of pooled hatred, and above average dps farming sorcs are pulling upwards of 5-5.5k on lighnting sorc.... which lead me to wonder why you think 258 cant reach 4.5k, or that bolstered 248 cant reach upper 3k (if you think 5.5k is unbelieveable, remember that the sig of karrot/kittykat on this forum was a screenshot of one of his biggest wz parses

 

I never said they couldn't... Of course they can. On my madness sorc, I've done 8k before (once), and 6k is doable under the right circumstances. But sometimes 3.5k or even 2.5k is all that's possible if you're being focused, or chasing, or getting cc'd, or knock backed, etc, etc. And again, most importantly. some people, even in ranked, just number farm by tab targeting to the nearest enemy as soon as their target kites at all. That way they have maximum uptime, but most of their damage is totally useless. Raw dps numbers don't mean much most of the time. If pvp was just parsing on a dummy, then gear would really matter. But it's not, so it doesn't.

[Lhancelot]

Tank specs in 258 and Sorcs are topping, but pretty much anyone in 258 gear is top damage.

 

Then you look at people between 230-250 gear and they're doing 1/4 to 1/2 the damage.

 

I mean, hello FACTS!

 

I don't know if gears make a big difference or not, but my anecdotal take is that gears do have an impact on performance, even if it's a small degree I believe it exists.

 

That being said, you can't draw conclusions with just cherry picked "facts" lol. One could argue that anyone in 258s probably has a higher level of skill than those running in green 200 rated gears etc. Naturally, you probably will see 258 geared players performing better. They'd perform better in 100 rated gears, too.

 

Just sayin'!

 

I do agree though, that gears do matter atm. My sorc puts up better numbers now compared to a week ago and the only thing changed was my upgrades in gears. I am average at best, so I believe "good" or great players probably reap even more reward with skilled play in higher rated gears versus lower rated gears.

 

Even Jedi Al admits there is a slight performance increase with higher rated gears, and if he admits that much then he has to agree that gears do actually matter. I mean even if the performance increase is 2% more, well in close fights that's enough of an advantage for the higher gear rated player will win versus an equally skilled player who just happens to be in lesser rated gears.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

Even Jedi Al admits there is a slight performance increase with higher rated gears, and if he admits that much then he has to agree that gears do actually matter. I mean even if the performance increase is 2% more, well in close fights that's enough of an advantage for the higher gear rated player will win versus an equally skilled player who just happens to be in lesser rated gears.

 

Here's the thing, I've been beating around the bush in a lot of my responses on this topic. Yes, gear clearly can make a small difference, so it matters in a literal sense, but that's not what people mean when they say "gear matters."

 

The OP in this thread is of the impression that a worse player in 258 gear will beat a better player in 247 gear solely because of the difference in gear. That is just blatantly untrue. Such people are simply looking for excuses as to why they are losing in pvp. They should be striving to actually improve their play, rather than complaining about something that is largely irrelevant.

[Lhancelot]

Here's the thing, I've been beating around the bush in a lot of my responses on this topic. Yes, gear clearly can make a small difference, so it matters in a literal sense, but that's not what people mean when they say "gear matters."

 

The OP in this thread is of the impression that a worse player in 258 gear will beat a better player in 247 gear solely because of the difference in gear. That is just blatantly untrue. Such people are simply looking for excuses as to why they are losing in pvp. They should be striving to actually improve their play, rather than complaining about something that is largely irrelevant.

 

I just assume he is being hyperbolic to prove a point, I mean anytime we use a broad generalized statement most of us don't write/say it and expect it to be taken as fact.

 

Example, saying "anyone in 258s can faceroll play and beat anyone wearing 248s no matter how good the 248 geared player is!" Obviously, this is hyperbolic and said just for dramatic effect.

 

I am often taken literally when often times I like to use hyperbolic statements to prove a point. Unfortunately this is often missed and so people then get all riled up with things I write. (I guess if taken quite literally, I'd be annoyed with things I write, too.)

[Jarbarian]

I never said they couldn't... Of course they can. On my madness sorc, I've done 8k before (once), and 6k is doable under the right circumstances. But sometimes 3.5k or even 2.5k is all that's possible if you're being focused, or chasing, or getting cc'd, or knock backed, etc, etc. And again, most importantly. some people, even in ranked, just number farm by tab targeting to the nearest enemy as soon as their target kites at all. That way they have maximum uptime, but most of their damage is totally useless. Raw dps numbers don't mean much most of the time. If pvp was just parsing on a dummy, then gear would really matter. But it's not, so it doesn't.

 

So basically when proven otherwise, you keep rambling that you're right.

 

Narcissism at its finest.

[Lhancelot]

So basically when proven otherwise, you keep rambling that you're right.

 

Narcissism at its finest.

 

Are you saying Sithlordalex would be more fitting?