Guard needs to be on a CD

[MackPol]

Its not. I've hated the guard mechanic since day 1. Its brain dead, takes zero skill to use and its always been too strong. Why do you think tank tunnel became a thing? Then all of sudden that strategy became taboo. Well maybe if guard wasn't so brain dead....

 

Play tank in 4s and show us how it takes zero skill.

 

Seems like guard is the only thing that stops 4s from being AoE dps, smash buttons, attack whatever race...

Edited September 21, 2019 by MackPol

[KendraP]

Still saying tanking takes zero skill, and yet still nothing on what a dps does that a tank doesnt. So what, it takes negative skill to main a dps class?

[Lhancelot]

If all a tank can do is periodically use guard, who would want to play that? By gimping their damage for survivability, if they have no guard to use exactly what good would a tank be for a group?

 

Imagine how boring it would be to play? Imagine how boring team fights would be if all you did was run in and pick one target and attack until they died? At least with consistent guard, a tank can swap and make the other team have to think of other strategies to beat them.

 

Don't you think having to pick targets smartly adds some complexity to PVP?

 

I think ideas on how to make guard and PVP more enjoyable are fine. I just think there's more cons than pros though with guard having a cooldown.

 

If they want to gimp tanks with a guard on cooldown, they might as well remove tanks from the game. Luckily, they aren't going to do any of this, so we are just having fun with a lively debate about guard and tanks in general.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Lhancelot

[KendraP]

If all a tank can do is periodically use guard, who would want to play that? By gimping their damage for survivability, if they have no guard to use exactly what good would a tank be for a group?

 

Obviously this. But theres little point trying to be reasonable, as neither of us is going to change anyones mind. OP is here to rant and little more, so I may as well entertain myself antagonizing him.

 

At least then one of us is amused.

[Akevv]

Tanks are virtually extinct in PvP already. Everyone that plays a 'tank' is usually in dps gear anyway. A guard swapping true tank is basically a unicorn. I don't think we need to discourage tanks from playing. If anything, we should be trying to help the profession, make the mitigations actually work, etc.

[Raansu]

Don't you think having to pick targets smartly adds some complexity to PVP?

 

Considering all they have to worry about is the GCD? No not really. If it had a CD and you had to watch for a player getting focused down and timed the guard to prevent them from getting blown up? Then yes, 100% would add to complexity and skill. As it currently is though? lol no. Guard swapping isn't hard at all.

[KendraP]

Considering all they have to worry about is the GCD? No not really. If it had a CD and you had to watch for a player getting focused down and timed the guard to prevent them from getting blown up? Then yes, 100% would add to complexity and skill. As it currently is though? lol no. Guard swapping isn't hard at all.

 

and yet, it's still one more thing than a dps has to worry about, difficult or no

[Stellarcrusade]

LOL what? Healing isn't nerfed. What drugs are you on? Healing has been overtuned for years. I can literally run around on my healing Op and never die even with multiple dps jumping on me. Put guard on me and you'll be lucky to get me below 80% hp.

 

You obviously didn't play when 5.0 launched. Healing was 3x as good as it is now. Hence, nerf. It was nerfed more than once between then and now.

[omaan]

Guard needs to be removed from dps specs. It's ridiculous watching these cross-guard tricks between two juggs which saving them since it's much easier for healer to heal up them while they guard each other. My team always does most dps but we still loose because of these cross guard savings. Switching isn't helping and takes much time. It's not ok when dps classes can spam guards on each other non-stop

[KendraP]

Guard needs to be removed from dps specs. It's ridiculous watching these cross-guard tricks between two juggs which saving them since it's much easier for healer to heal up them while they guard each other. My team always does most dps but we still loose because of these cross guard savings. Switching isn't helping and takes much time. It's not ok when dps classes can spam guards on each other non-stop

 

I'd be fine with removing guard from dps specs of tank capable classes provided they get something to make up for the utility loss.

[Zurules]

Guard needs to be removed from dps specs. It's ridiculous watching these cross-guard tricks between two juggs which saving them since it's much easier for healer to heal up them while they guard each other. My team always does most dps but we still loose because of these cross guard savings. Switching isn't helping and takes much time. It's not ok when dps classes can spam guards on each other non-stop

 

I definitely do not agree that guard should be removed from dps specs that can guard. It adds a lot of complexity to those classes and forces you to make more crucial decisions that can either make you win or lose the game.

 

Two juggs are definitely the strongest version of this because they can stay in combat until they die with two lives each. Vg/pts do not have the extra life and shadow/assassin will be forced out of the fight earlier than normal.

 

You must remember that if you are the one guarding, you cannot be guarded by someone else. This is the major weakness that most players do not try and exploit.

 

People who think that because they do the most dps, that they should win games are my favorite kinds of players to beat. It feels kinda like a tunnel vision kind of thinking to me and is also the most common sign of a bad pvper in my eyes. Doing the most dps does not make you a better pvper, winning makes you a better pvper.

[omaan]

I definitely do not agree that guard should be removed from dps specs that can guard. It adds a lot of complexity to those classes and forces you to make more crucial decisions that can either make you win or lose the game.

 

Two juggs are definitely the strongest version of this because they can stay in combat until they die with two lives each. Vg/pts do not have the extra life and shadow/assassin will be forced out of the fight earlier than normal.

 

You must remember that if you are the one guarding, you cannot be guarded by someone else. This is the major weakness that most players do not try and exploit.

 

People who think that because they do the most dps, that they should win games are my favorite kinds of players to beat. It feels kinda like a tunnel vision kind of thinking to me and is also the most common sign of a bad pvper in my eyes. Doing the most dps does not make you a better pvper, winning makes you a better pvper.

 

Since players can calibrate their UI in this game most of those who has guard just making their group plates big and put it whenever they want. I see even noobs started to use cross guard in heal games by droping guard when they are low hp and receiving guard from other player and vice versa. Switching doesn't help much and not always possible due to guard and guard removal being instant and having big range (even considering guard range which can be fixed by leap ability). This must have limitation since for healers healing swaping damage is much easier compared to situations when all enemies zerg one target (we all know that healers in this game making much more hps per second compared to dps specs). Considering that juggs will get a great buff to their defenses in next patch games for non guarding setups will become an auto loose

[Yamahara]

Pretty sure I can dps just fine. https://imgur.com/a/HuADhk4

 

4k dps is actually the average you should be hitting every reg wz for Sent/Mara. So you just basically told myself and everyone that you're just a casual who is whining about something they probably are bad at. Please get a team, and go up against any good hard swap 4v4 team and see what happens with your tank that probably wont swap guard fast enough. Tanking takes a lot more skill in ranked than you know, maybe you just need to practice how to swap to an unguarded target quicker.

[L-RANDLE]

Raansu tears... lol. Tanks already arent very viable in PvP...

[Eastiano]

Guard is fine, what isn’t tho is the hell I had to endure in hypergate the other day with 2 tanks, 4 healers and an offtank on the enemy team, when we had 2 heals no tanks on ours.

 

Ofc the timer ran out, we won because well, objectives but it was like nothing would die! Had to resist the urge to leave wz...

 

Yeah, that scenario is kinda boring and sterile. Not sure if it was a supergroup though so nothing any matchmaking could do?

[ZIMMOZMAN]

Going to continue bringing this up BW. Guard needs to be changed to be something that actually requires a thought process. The ability needs to be on a CD and the buff of guard should only last for a short time. This concept of an indefinite buff is just too ridiculous especially with how overtuned healing is right now. It shouldn't take almost the entire team focusing on a tank/healer combo to take them out. Tack on the damage reduction from taunts + whatever CD's the healer is using and its just incredibly broken.

 

As someone who just returned for pvp tanking and that I hate stupid ideas. This has to be one of the most dumb ideas I have ever seen and proves you don't know how to play the game at all.

 

If something has guard hard switch target force a guard switch and keep switching until the tank is confused or tired.

If a healer and tank combo goes to attack a node never over commit they cant kill anything for ages and if you over commit the other node will go.

 

I hate people like you who never learnt how the game works after 8 years. Then still suggest over and over to the forums stupid ideas that only if you learnt the game, it wouldn't be a problem.

Edited September 26, 2019 by ZIMMOZMAN

[ZIMMOZMAN]

Raansu tears... lol. Tanks already arent very viable in PvP...

 

More viable in this game then any other just because of the guard mech and the OP wants it gone or nerfed.

[Lhancelot]

More viable in this game then any other just because of the guard mech and the OP wants it gone or nerfed.

 

That's my point, too. If you gimp tanks more, they wouldn't offer enough to be worth playing. After thinking on it and reading this thread it's clear guard ought to remain as it is now with no cooldown.

 

The occasional inconvenience in regs we face with capable tanks and healers on a team shouldn't be a reason to gut the entire purpose and role of tanks in the game.

 

With this logic I could say make healers half as effective as they are now because when there's two healers healing someone, I can't kill them solo... or, DPS do too much burst when I get tunneled by 3 good ones so their burst ought to be reduced by half.

 

You can't propose knee-jerk responses to outlying rare occurances that guard creates in the game because in the majority of cases guard offers more pros than cons. If they gimped guard mechanics, it would hurt the game more than help.

[Raansu]

As someone who just returned for pvp tanking and that I hate stupid ideas. This has to be one of the most dumb ideas I have ever seen and proves you don't know how to play the game at all.

 

I know how to play the game just fine, but ya sure "herp derp my ***** not broken, you just don't know how to play!"

 

If something has guard hard switch target force a guard switch and keep switching until the tank is confused or tired.

If a healer and tank combo goes to attack a node never over commit they cant kill anything for ages and if you over commit the other node will go.

 

Ya sure totally switch targets....oh wait they have guard now lemme switch back......oh wait they have guard now. Oh look the tank is whitebarred now. Guard swapping isn't exactly difficult and there's no repercussions for poor decision making on who to guard because its only limitation is the GCD. Guard has no damage limit to it so it can't be broken, there's no time limit to it and there's no CD attached to it all the while reducing 50% damage of the guarded target on top of the 30% from taunts on top of the guarded players own CD's.

 

Sorry dude, guard is broken. Asking to have a skill be changed in a way that makes sense and to be balanced is not asking to remove a skill. Tanks would still be viable, especially if taunts along with guard were properly moved to be tank only skills.

 

I hate people like you who never learnt how the game works after 8 years. Then still suggest over and over to the forums stupid ideas that only if you learnt the game, it wouldn't be a problem.

 

And I hate people like you who stick to there broken crap like glue. At least I'm not afraid to call out when something is broken even if its my own class. Like the tactical being added in 6.0 for sent/marauders and the force stealth CD reset? lol BW is dumb if they leave it in, but I will abuse to hell out of it on my sentinel.

 

Like I said to someone else as well, I was the first to call out how broken the smash buff would be back in the day or how ridiculous guarded by the force having a 45s CD was. Boy was it awesome to have the CD that low, and a ton of sent/marauder players tried to justify having a 45s CD, but even as a sentinel main I knew that skill being able to have its CD reduced to that short of a CD was totally ridiculous.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Raansu

[Zurules]

I know how to play the game just fine, but ya sure "herp derp my ***** not broken, you just don't know how to play!"

 

Ya sure totally switch targets....oh wait they have guard now lemme switch back......oh wait they have guard now. Oh look the tank is whitebarred now. Guard swapping isn't exactly difficult and there's no repercussions for poor decision making on who to guard because its only limitation is the GCD. Guard has no damage limit to it so it can't be broken, there's no time limit to it and there's no CD attached to it all the while reducing 50% damage of the guarded target on top of the 30% from taunts on top of the guarded players own CD's.

 

Sorry dude, guard is broken. Asking to have a skill be changed in a way that makes sense and to be balanced is not asking to remove a skill. Tanks would still be viable, especially if taunts along with guard were properly moved to be tank only skills.

 

Guard is perfect just the way it is and needs no changes. As for 6.0 and tacticals and the new set bonuses, I will need to play it for a while first before making any comments about it. Having no repercussions on who to guard is completely false. There are huge repercussions at times that can cost you the game with how it is now with no CD. Any smart tank knows this.

 

You cannot change a core mechanic to tanking without changing the whole game dramatically. You may not like it, but it's clear to me and others that despite your experience playing this game, you do not understand the game.

[KendraP]

Still pointing out how easy guard swapping is while conveniently ignoring that it is one more thing tanks have to worry about than dps eh?

[Raansu]

Still pointing out how easy guard swapping is while conveniently ignoring that it is one more thing tanks have to worry about than dps eh?

 

Only thing I'm ignoring is you and your terrible attempts at making any kind of counter argument. Welcome to ignore.

[Raansu]

Guard is perfect just the way it is and needs no changes.

 

Guard is not fine the way it is and it was never fine. It is the core problem of why 8v8 ranked always lead to stalemates and its the core reason today why most 4v4 granked matches go to acid. Guard the way it has been since launch should have never made it to live from the beta.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Raansu

[KendraP]

Only thing I'm ignoring is you and your terrible attempts at making any kind of counter argument. Welcome to ignore.

 

Ah but I'm not trying to make a counter argument. I'm entertaining myself and pointing out the simple logical pitfall of if tanking is mindless, but tanks have one more thing to worry about than dps, then what does that say about dpsing?

 

Otherwise, what does a dps have to worry about that a tank does not? It's a simple question, really.

[Zurules]

Guard is not fine the way it is and it was never fine. It is the core problem of why 8v8 ranked always lead to stalemates and its the core reason today why most 4v4 granked matches go to acid. Guard the way it has been since launch should have never made it to live from the beta.

 

Gotta agree to completely disagree.