DO NOT RELEASE THIS GEARING SYSTEM, please...

[olagatonjedi]

...regardless, the 6.0 planned gearing system is ridiculous.

Why cannot we have those from 3.0 or 4.0 even? What was wrong with that??

Many people dont want 3.0 or 4.0 style loot systems. The obvious reason is that is gives no incentive to play the game after you collect your capped tokens for the day/week.

 

Crazy as it sounds, but im sure the devs WANT people to actually play their game instead of log in 5 mins, get your item, and log off. 6.0 loot system effectively prevents/discourages that playstyle, and encourages you to stay active in THIS game.

Many people may not necessarily like 6.0s loot system, but they place a lot more priority on having people who are interested in the game actually log in. People who are complaining, wont be active, or will leave the game because of the loot system are the minority, and arent who they are primarily trying to satisfy. They will throw a bone to them with minor tweaks for retention, but thats all.

 

Some people just refuse to understand it.

[Gelious]

...regardless, the 6.0 planned gearing system is ridiculous.

What is so complicated about that, I wonder...why cannot we just use this system???

 

Because EA wants you to pay them for playing game. Which means you actually must have a need to play the game. How do you get people to play the game? You either a) constantly add new stuff to do or b) make people do old stuff again and again and again. I think we all can agree option A is not happening for SWTOR and never will.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Gelious

[DavidAtkinson]

Many people dont want 3.0 or 4.0 style loot systems. The obvious reason is that is gives no incentive to play the game after you collect your capped tokens for the day/week.

 

Crazy as it sounds, but im sure the devs WANT people to actually play their game instead of log in 5 mins, get your item, and log off. 6.0 loot system effectively prevents/discourages that playstyle, and encourages you to stay active in THIS game.

Many people may not necessarily like 6.0s loot system, but they place a lot more priority on having people who are interested in the game actually log in. People who are complaining, wont be active, or will leave the game because of the loot system are the minority, and arent who they are primarily trying to satisfy. They will throw a bone to them with minor tweaks for retention, but thats all.

 

Some people just refuse to understand it.

 

That is why during 3.0 - 4.0 period the Republic Fleet on the Red Eclipse had 3 instances and the PVP terminals on both fleet were very crowded with people waiting for pops.

 

Now, after " RNG is exciting " and a server merge we barely have 110 people on rep fleet in prime time and they also had to add cross faction to make sure rep side gets enough pops too..

 

People like you are always good for a laugh with such posts.... Such a fanboy. OMG

[Przemo_No]

Many people dont want 3.0 or 4.0 style loot systems. The obvious reason is that is gives no incentive to play the game after you collect your capped tokens for the day/week.

 

Crazy as it sounds, but im sure the devs WANT people to actually play their game instead of log in 5 mins, get your item, and log off. 6.0 loot system effectively prevents/discourages that playstyle, and encourages you to stay active in THIS game.

Many people may not necessarily like 6.0s loot system, but they place a lot more priority on having people who are interested in the game actually log in. People who are complaining, wont be active, or will leave the game because of the loot system are the minority, and arent who they are primarily trying to satisfy. They will throw a bone to them with minor tweaks for retention, but thats all.

 

Some people just refuse to understand it.

 

Well, not sure about you, but with 24 alts I had enough incentive to play any content during 3.0 or 4.0. And many others as well.

Such incentive significanly dropped during 5.0 (how many times you can run Ossus, to get a specific piece of gear that you miss?? or how many times you need to destroy crates to get the missing piece? How, for all the gods, it is "exciting"????)

The proposed changes in 6.0 make me seriously considering doing the story and loging off for good. I do not want to run the hamster wheel, sorry.

[Rion_Starkiller]

I dont know how else to put this, please, do not release this in its current state or close to it.

It is ridiculously complex and unintuitive and makes the WoW grind look palpable.

Please listen to your top influencers like Xam Xam and Snave, do not do this at a time when you need a successful release, this will not be it.

 

I like the complexity, but the gearing system needs a lot of polish. I don't want to still be beta testing a gearing system once Onslaught goes live.

 

On a positive note, the new character and inventory UI is looking nice.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[phalczen]

I've run it 5 times straight (for the achievement). Got 3 items total. You inventory is half-full ?! Did you really do nothing but playing Hammer Station for a week ?

 

 

Yeah. Right.

1 item cost 5000 tech fragments (that's if you are lucky enough to catch the item you need in the vendor's list). The vet. mode gives you what ? 3-5 fragments per run ? So. How many years should I spend till I'll be able to buy 1 piece of a gear if I only have time to run 1 flashpoint a week ? And no operation at all ?

 

As I said, I had just over 1000 tech fragments after five veteran mode hammer station runs and the weekly to do five, which was automatically granted because I did the runs through activity finder. That was with replacing all 14 pieces at least once-over. I'm sitting at iRating 272-274 now. This was on Friday and Saturday the 13th and 14th respectively. VM Hammer Station is extremely fast as it stands right now, much faster than live.

 

I'll be honest, I didn't screenshot the prices on Kai Zyken's vendor, but I seem to recall prices that were on the order of 500-2000 tech fragments, not 5000. There was a significant credit cost though, sometimes in the millions. Zyken was only selling things one out of the two times I was on PTS this weekend, Saturday around 3 pm, so its possible he has more expensive things at other times.

 

EDIT: remember also that there are more vendors to come with less RNG involved than Takana that didn't make it into this PTS build (dropped Friday 9/13 I think).

EDIT 2: I also made the mistake of opening my renown crates right away but Darev's suggestion not to open them until you are 306 actually makes perfect sense. Anyway, that gear contributed to my total of 1000+, but that was only 5 renown boxes so 5 pieces of 270-something gear.

Edited September 16, 2019 by phalczen

[olagatonjedi]

That is why during 3.0 - 4.0 period the Republic Fleet on the Red Eclipse had 3 instances and the PVP terminals on both fleet were very crowded with people waiting for pops.

 

Now, after " RNG is exciting " and a server merge we barely have 110 people on rep fleet in prime time and they also had to add cross faction to make sure rep side gets enough pops too.. :

I bet you even have the proof to back up the causality, right. Ill be waiting for it.

 

The logic of your statement - My brother has never had cancer before. Yesterday, a girl smiled at him. We went to the doctor for a checkup today, and now my brother has cancer because that girl smiled at him.

[olagatonjedi]

Well, not sure about you, but with 24 alts I had enough incentive to play any content during 3.0 or 4.0. And many others as well.

Such incentive significanly dropped during 5.0 (how many times you can run Ossus, to get a specific piece of gear that you miss?? or how many times you need to destroy crates to get the missing piece? How, for all the gods, it is "exciting"????)

The proposed changes in 6.0 make me seriously considering doing the story and loging off for good. I do not want to run the hamster wheel, sorry.

You have 1 vote. I respect your opinion.

[BlueSorcerer]

Yes please RELEASE this gearing system! It is the best ever!

[Lhancelot]

Well, not sure about you, but with 24 alts I had enough incentive to play any content during 3.0 or 4.0. And many others as well. I do not want to run the hamster wheel, sorry.

 

This here. ^

 

I always had tons of alts, and I always felt inclined playing them all. When they began the crusade to eliminate alt-gameplay ironically that's when I lost incentive to play.

 

I have not done Ossus one time, I have zero interest in this type of grind for gears and if 6.0 is similar i won't bother with it, either.

 

Basically I only play 3 toons now, and that's been the case for over a year now. By making gearing a chore and exceptionally gimmicky all it does is make me want to not play.

 

The population over the years agrees with my position I bet seeing how the game's pop keeps shrinking as each new update ruins more of what we once all loved about the game regarding gameplay.

 

I wonder what they could have created had they just stuck with the 3.0-4.0 gearing system, what if they had put their man hours into actually creating content and stuff instead of gutting gearing systems and redoing them over and over again?

 

Same with conquest. The conquest system did not need a total revamp and gutting. But that's what they did. Instead of keeping what was good on the conquest system, they just destroyed it and came out with a conquest system that punished alts.

 

Even now, after all their tweaking and adjusting, conquest still is bad. Worst of it is they tried explaining why they revamped it, supposedly to give smaller guilds a better chance to compete with the larger guilds.

 

Well, that didn't add up, because in reality smaller guilds are at an even more disadvantage the conquest points system favors larger guilds even more than before! Another lol moment in the history of SWTOR development.

 

I bring this up, because we lost a lot of veteran players with those changes to conquest. Some of our most prolific and sensible forum posters quit when it became apparent what BW said about conquest wasn't what they were doing with conquest.

 

How many times does this have to happen? These devs do so much work fixing things that aint broke. I was hoping this trend would end with Keith, but wow. It's still happening.

 

No one at the helm has shown they have the best interests of the game in mind, if they did there would not be this huge disconnect between what the devs are creating and what the players are begging for them to develop in the game. They shouldn't be scrambling around at the last second on PTS before 6.0 comes out.

 

No, we shouldn't be "happy" they are doing this... They ought to be happy because if they do as the players say, they might actually keep some subs and the game might continue with more success than failure.

 

All that said, let's hope for a miracle. I am at a point where I think the only way for the game to improve is through divine intervention.

[Solarmind]

Id recommend getting on PTS to try it yourself.

Don't play these games with me. I've been there. Played and saw for myself.

 

OK. They've tune the numbers in the latest patch. Now it would be 150 years of farming per 1 item instead of 300 years/item. Did it help ? Not a bit…

 

As I said, I had just over 1000 tech fragments after five veteran mode hammer station runs

But you can't ! Within the current PTS' patch : 1 run = 75 tech. fragment. 5 runs — 75*5 = 375 tech. fragments. You simply can't have "over 1000" from that !

 

I'll be honest, I didn't screenshot the prices on Kai Zyken's vendor, but I seem to recall prices that were on the order of 500-2000 tech fragments, not 5000.

Well, looks like they've toned down the numbers already. I remember seeing 5000 and 500. Now it's 1500 and 375.

Not a big change for someone who would/can play like 2 days in week for 1 hour/day.

Well, yet another "look through the story and forget about swtor till the next big patch" accompanied with the brand new "don't bother with the gear" and "the difficult is insane" on top.

[phalczen]

But you can't ! Within the current PTS' patch : 1 run = 75 tech. fragment. 5 runs — 75*5 = 375 tech. fragments. You simply can't have "over 1000" from that !

 

You can, I did. I wish I would have screenshotted it. I was able to buy two OH boxes from Takanna with 200-some leftover. As I mentioned, some of the tech fragments were from the group finder, some from the [WEEKLY], some from renown crates (which I now know to be foolish prior to iLvl 306, thanks Darev). I deconstructed everything that wasn't an iLvl upgrade. I wasn't eligible for the role-in-need even though I was a tank because I didn't have all the FP checked. I also wasn't eligible for the bonus activity finder stuff because, again, not every FP was checked, but you do get a small reward just by doing something through activity finder. I never did it solo, always in a group, if that matters.

[olagatonjedi]

Don't play these games with me. I've been there. Played and saw for myself.

If you have been on PTS and have experienced X.

If ive been on PTS and experienced Y.

Its reasonable to believe that both X and Y are possible outcomes, along with all the variations between.

 

Well, looks like they've toned down the numbers already. I remember seeing 5000 and 500. Now it's 1500 and 375.

Not a big change for someone who would/can play like 2 days in week for 1 hour/day.

Well, yet another "look through the story and forget about swtor till the next big patch" accompanied with the brand new "don't bother with the gear" and "the difficult is insane" on top.

So you are mad that you only get out of the game what you put in? Not judging, but in context its important to know why someone would want a specific change to be made.

[Floplag]

WoW classic grind is very relaxing at the moment compared to swtor’s normal grind. This newer system will make WoW grind look perfect.

 

Please don’t go ahead with it in it’s current form if complexity and RNG grind. If Snave and Xam are saying it’s a problem, then you should listen to them.

 

Good point, if they release this as is they will simply feed more to classic. I hate that im playing a 15 year old game right now, legit hate it, but right now its the best one so it is what it is. I want to play swtor, but if you give me a grind worse than WoW retail without the content, i guess that speaks for itself.

[olagatonjedi]

Good point, if they release this as is they will simply feed more to classic. I hate that im playing a 15 year old game right now, legit hate it, but right now its the best one so it is what it is. I want to play swtor, but if you give me a grind worse than WoW retail without the content, i guess that speaks for itself.

Sometimes your expectations for a game arent met. Doesnt mean the game messed up or that you are wrong either.

[RemenCreed]

6.0 will doom this game if they stay this course. My sub will surely end if they continue this horrible RNG grind. They need to stop trying to copy other games and get original. This game is dying, and 6.0 could resurrect this game but those in charge are failing us. We want content and not an obnoxious gear system.

[olagatonjedi]

6.0 will doom this game if they stay this course. My sub will surely end if they continue this horrible RNG grind. They need to stop trying to copy other games and get original. This game is dying, and 6.0 could resurrect this game but those in charge are failing us. We want content and not an obnoxious gear system.

It may cause a lot of inflexible players to leave, but honestly dynamic MMOs survive mostly on players who remain flexible. The inflexible ones are expected to come and go based on fhe fluctuations of the game content.

[JattaGin]

It may cause a lot of inflexible players to leave, but honestly dynamic MMOs survive mostly on players who remain flexible. The inflexible ones are expected to come and go based on fhe fluctuations of the game content.

 

"A lot" of players may leave indeed, Andryah. Whether inflexible or not, even you must understand that it was those players who kept this game running during the last years. Who will remain if they quit? As if we could afford to lose any more players.

 

What I witness on the PTS is just terrible. I liked all previous expansions and I didn't mind any of the previous changes to the game. But what's happening right now, at least judging on the state of the PTS, is unbearable and makes no sense to me. I am not looking forward to 6.0 at the moment. My sub ends in November. I hope they will change the new system for the better.

[Yezzan]

this new gearing system will kill the game for sure. It's too convoluted. i thought the idea was to make gearing simpler and easier.

 

There are too many tiers of gear. Gut them out. Going from 258 to 306 with 2 levels between each rating is too damn much.

 

Also, you basically have the same token system, just different name so what was that all about? just to make our old token useless so people can't stock up? The old system is ****** but its better than what is currently on PTS. Plus now its going to be hella difficult to know which set bonus to use for your class and all these stupid *** amplifiers which is RNG based.

[olagatonjedi]

"A lot" of players may leave indeed, Andryah. Whether inflexible or not, even you must understand that it was those players who kept this game running during the last years. Who will remain if they quit? As if we could afford to lose any more players.

There are plenty of players that do not have this idealistic SWTOR engrained in their head, and that dont hold BW accountable for every decision they make. Plenty of players are here to have fun and enjoy the SW theme regardless of what changes come down. At the very least they will give it an opportunity and dont pay attention to the noise. No doubt people will leave. People always do, no matter what changes are made. Its the nature of MMOs. You put way too much stock in the chatter from like-minded people representing the masses. I feel confident saying that people actively pursuing the ability to min/max, wanting token loot systems, and all the "must change now" vocalists are the minority. They are a blip on the radar of population. The only aspect that will suffer if that minority leaves will likely be from their gaming experience. But that can be re-developed by the masses that remain, continuing to have fun regardless.

Edited September 18, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[LD_Little_Dragon]

There are plenty of players that do not have this idealistic SWTOR engrained in their head, and that dont hold BW accountable for every decision they make.

 

There are also plenty of players who are doing what they are supposed to on the PTS. Giving Bioware feedback on what they do (and do not like) about the upcoming expansion. Opinions, both positive and negative, are needed to make sure that when 6.0 goes live it is attractive to a large number of players.

 

Criticism is expected, and is what you are supposed to do. A tester who gives nothing but positive feedback, without pointing out areas that could be improved, is not helping the development team. Bioware can take action on the testers remarks, or not.

 

It is not your job to argue with people about their opinions. Your time would be best spent testing 6.0 for yourself, and then posting a list of what you think about it, instead of deriding other testers opinons. Let Bioware decide what do with the feedback.

[Raansu]

It may cause a lot of inflexible players to leave, but honestly dynamic MMOs survive mostly on players who remain flexible. The inflexible ones are expected to come and go based on fhe fluctuations of the game content.

 

A huge chunk of people who played this game for years abandoned it when 5.x came out. That's not being inflexible, that's refusing to play in a horrible system. You think those people who loved the game wanted to leave? Hell no. BW forced their hand.

 

5.x nearly killed this game.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Raansu

[olagatonjedi]

There are also plenty of players who are doing what they are supposed to on the PTS. Giving Bioware feedback on what they do (and do not like) about the upcoming expansion. Opinions, both positive and negative, are needed to make sure that when 6.0 goes live it is attractive to a large number of players.

I agree. Ive never said otherwise, so not sure if directed towards me or the general population.

 

Criticism is expected, and is what you are supposed to do. A tester who gives nothing but positive feedback, without pointing out areas that could be improved, is not helping the development team. Bioware can take action on the testers remarks, or not.

I disagree. Negative criticism isnt needed. Its ok to provide it, but certainly not needed. And positive feedback is still feedback.

 

It is not your job to argue with people about their opinions.

You're right about this. I do not get paid to argue with you or others. I simply try to understand the complaints, and provide rationale for the changes, as I see it. I do it because im passionate about the game, as im sure others are.

 

Your time would be best spent testing 6.0 for yourself, and then posting a list of what you think about it, instead of deriding other testers opinons. Let Bioware decide what do with the feedback.

I AM testing 6.0, and providing feedback and rationale. I find it curious that you feel superior to me, enough to tell me where my time is best spent. Id appreciate if you leave that to me plz. Im educated, intelligent, and a professional master of time management.

[olagatonjedi]

A huge chunk of people who played this game for years abandoned it when 5.x came out. That's not being inflexible, that's refusing to play in a horrible system. You think those people who loved the game wanted to leave? Hell no. BW forced their hand.

 

5.x nearly killed this game.

The game didnt do anything differently than its done in the past. It remained as dynamic as its ever been. If people left, whether due to refusal or other means, it was their decision, not BWs. The people who left were inflexible to the dynamic nature. Its not judgment against them, just identifying a trait. They were never forced to play, never forced to quit playing. People, individually, either like the product enough to play, or they dont. Simple as that.

 

And nothing indicatea 5.x almost killed the game. We are still here, and activity is fine as far as I have experienced. Perhaps within your group of players, you felt that way, but you also seem to have issues with the game, and have voiced that, so perhaps the people you surrounded yourself with felt similarly to you (common interests usually leads to friends), so it makes sense that your group felt it much more than the random, unaffiliated population.

[Raansu]

The game didnt do anything differently than its done in the past. It remained as dynamic as its ever been.

 

lol what!? It completely changed the gearing system. It went from a game that was extremely friendly to alts and practically encouraged it with a fair gearing acquisition system to a heavy handed rng bag system with korean mmo level grinding that discouraged leveling alts.

 

The game was in maintenance mode for 2 years and further merged the few servers it had left. It had a massive drop in players during the 5.x era. Open your eyes and stop being a blind white knight fan boy. 6.0 will be the death of this game.