So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

[TrixxieTriss]

There are people that enjoy eating **** sandwiches too. That doesn’t prove that **** sandwiches taste good.

 

I wish I had room in my sig to quote that

 

Also, welcome back.

[TrixxieTriss]

Also, I'd rather ranked die than encourage Bioware to punish people for their speech.

.

 

That sort of statement is part of the problem. People feel they can do what ever they want and don’t care one bit if ranked or pvp in this game fails.

 

Just look at the s*** circus regs has become because nobody cares if they win. They prefer to run all over the map to kill s**t so they can measure their d**** after the match.

 

If more people cared about the quality of the game (that includes social interactions), then pvp would be better and more people would play it.

Edited August 21, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[JediMasterAlex]

That sort of statement is part of the problem. People feel they can do what ever they want and don’t care one bit if ranked or pvp in this game fails.

 

If more people cared about the quality of the game (that includes social interactions), then pvp would be better and more people would play it.

 

That's not what I said though is it? I literally have said many times, of course I care about the health of pvp in this game, I just care about free speech more. Regardless, "toxicity" is not a significant problem in pvp in the first place.

 

Trying to force people to behave the way that you personally approve of is not only a terrible idea, it's quite arrogant to think that you know what's best for everyone. You seem to want full blown social control, which is absurd. People should be free to say whatever they want, and it should be up to the community to react to it, not Bioware. Punishing people for their speech alone is not the answer.

Edited August 21, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Rolodome]

That's not what I said though is it? I literally have said many times, of course I care about the health of pvp in this game, I just care about free speech more. Regardless, "toxicity" is not a significant problem in pvp in the first place.

 

Trying to force people to behave the way that you personally approve of is not only a terrible idea, it's quite arrogant to think that you know what's best for everyone. You seem to want full blown social control, which is absurd. People should be free to say whatever they want, and it should be up to the community to react to it, not Bioware. Punishing people for their speech alone is not the answer.

What exactly do you think the community is going to do about it? We can:

 

1) Put people on ignore (which is only by character, so easily bypassed)

 

2) Ask people not to be ***** (look at how well that's going in this thread?).

 

You refuse to acknowledge it as an issue* when people are using a non-authoritarian way to address the problem (talking about it, making requests, etc.) and then tell them they're robbing others of free speech when they encourage an authoritarian solution.

 

*

"toxicity" is not a significant problem in pvp in the first place.

 

What that leaves is: Nothing changes.

 

So if your goal is to protect the status quo, well it's an effective strategy, albeit a dishonest one.

[Lhancelot]

What exactly do you think the community is going to do about it? We can:

 

1) Put people on ignore (which is only by character, so easily bypassed)

 

2) Ask people not to be ***** (look at how well that's going in this thread?).

 

You refuse to acknowledge it as an issue* when people are using a non-authoritarian way to address the problem (talking about it, making requests, etc.) and then tell them they're robbing others of free speech when they encourage an authoritarian solution.

 

*

 

What that leaves is: Nothing changes.

 

So if your goal is to protect the status quo, well it's an effective strategy, albeit a dishonest one.

 

Rolodome just got deep as hell in the post response to Alex, my advice is don’t try responding that was a mic drop lol

Edited August 21, 2019 by Lhancelot

[Lhancelot]

I wish I had room in my sig to quote that

 

Also, welcome back.

 

Haha, ty. Got bored today and felt like chatting with the awesome SWTOR forums community!

[JediMasterAlex]

You refuse to acknowledge it as an issue* when people are using a non-authoritarian way to address the problem (talking about it, making requests, etc.) and then tell them they're robbing others of free speech when they encourage an authoritarian solution.

 

Yes...that's right.

 

1. It's not a very big issue.

2. When people want to pursue non-authoritarian (as you put it) solutions, that's perfectly fine.

3. When people want to pursue authoritarian solutions, that's not fine.

 

You summed it up nicely. Where is the dishonesty?

 

Rolodome just got deep as hell in the post response to Alex, my advice is don’t try responding that was a mic drop lol

 

?

Edited August 21, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[foxmob]

You refuse to acknowledge it as an issue* when people are using a non-authoritarian way to address the problem (talking about it, making requests, etc.) and then tell them they're robbing others of free speech when they encourage an authoritarian solution.

 

it's not actually a big issue on SF atm. the usual suspects have been pretty quiet (presumably after BW action was taken). it ebbs and flows. most of the chatter I've seen in the past two weeks is obscure enough to not be harassment, imo. like why are you in ranked? or please don't pop X-ability here. or can you please queue as dps because you can't be carried as a healer?

 

also, there are a lot of players who are significantly worse than me in solo the past week, so I think some of the better players have just fled the queue until tiers are announced.

 

tbf, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "target this guy. he sucks." but when you turn to a guy and keep telling him he sucks and then carry that into fleet, that's harassment.

 

/2cents

[Floplag]

Yes...that's right.

 

1. It's not a very big issue.

2. When people want to pursue non-authoritarian (as you put it) solutions, that's perfectly fine.

3. When people want to pursue authoritarian solutions, that's not fine.

 

You summed it up nicely. Where is the dishonesty?

 

 

 

?

 

See 1...

lol

You are either oblivious or in denial but to suggest its not a problem IS the problem.

[Floplag]

 

tbf, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "target this guy. he sucks." but when you turn to a guy and keep telling him he sucks and then carry that into fleet, that's harassment.

 

/2cents

 

AS usual Fox hits the mark.

The question becomes where do you draw the line when banter becomes harrasment become toxic.

 

Some people do need to get thicker skin, i agree with JMA on that, but i suspect where that line is drawn will be very different for each of us.

 

Telling someone they should have done thus and so isnt toxic, as long as it doesnt accompany ancestral insults. But we all know that isnt typical how it works and the sentence usually begins with "**** you noob you should have done thus and so".... which crosses that line.

 

He knows this, hes not stupid, he just doesnt want to admit that hes much more comfortable with that line being a lot more liberal than others.

[JediMasterAlex]

You are either oblivious or in denial but to suggest its not a problem IS the problem.

 

Except it's not actually a problem. You would know that if you actually played solo ranked.

 

Notice that Foxmob, who actually plays solo ranked, agrees with me on this issue, and Foxmob clearly doesn't like me and disagrees with me on all kinds of other topics.

 

it's not actually a big issue on SF atm.

Edited August 21, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[UltraFlashStar]

oh oh look. a merc who pops reflect as he runs across corellia mid while he's guarded "healing" one team while another team has the merc who gets out healed by his concealment op

 

Wait wait wait, this sounds really familiar. I had a match just like this on SF. I out-healed a Merc Healer on my Scrapper Scoundrel while the enemy team Merc DPS was had reflect and was running from a guard I think. You might have been in that match.

 

Ah good times, bad times.

[JediMasterAlex]

but i suspect where that line is drawn will be very different for each of us.

 

Exactly. Which is one reason why having universal standards and punishing people for it is a bad idea.

 

Telling someone they should have done thus and so isnt toxic, as long as it doesnt accompany ancestral insults. But we all know that isnt typical how it works and the sentence usually begins with "**** you noob you should have done thus and so".... which crosses that line.

 

That doesn't happen very often, that's what we're trying to tell you. And even when it does and it crosses a line...so what? It's just words. By all means call them out on it, but the person still shouldn't face any punishment for it.

 

He knows this, hes not stupid, he just doesnt want to admit that hes much more comfortable with that line being a lot more liberal than others.

 

That's possible, but I can't read peoples' minds, so I don't know if that's true. Whether I personally think someone crosses the line isn't relevant to my central argument, which is that people shouldn't be punished for their speech even if they're being undeniably toxic.

[UltraFlashStar]

AS usual Fox hits the mark.

The question becomes where do you draw the line when banter becomes harrasment become toxic.

 

From my experiences, most people either try to help the person or tells them that they’re not ready for Ranked. Usually escalates when the person doesn’t respond to either message and continues to do the same thing, ignoring advice. Then people start busting out the “x is probably a bot” “x sucks” “x is probably a wintrader”

[JediMasterAlex]

From my experiences, most people either try to help the person or tells them that they’re not ready for Ranked. Usually escalates when the person doesn’t respond to either message and continues to do the same thing, ignoring advice. Then people start busting out the “x is probably a bot” “x sucks” “x is probably a wintrader”

 

Correct. Another source of escalation is when the person who is obviously playing terribly and getting globaled tries to say "no dude, I couldn't do anything, they had me stun locked" or some other nonsense excuse, rather than taking responsibility for their poor play.

[foxmob]

Notice that Foxmob, who actually plays solo ranked, agrees with me on this issue, and Foxmob clearly doesn't like me and disagrees with me on all kinds of other topics.

 

right now, it's pretty clean. you might get Cease arguing with someone or Dean spamming the same thing to a dense player (e.g., "guard swap" "guard swap" "guard swap"), but it's just typical arguing about strat between teammates that happens in any sport when something goes wrong.

 

HOWEVER, as recently as 2-3 weeks ago, it was worse. and before that, when a certain wannabe viking had a huge chunk of the imp-side SR population in his little fad guild streaming on twitter, it was an entirely different story. not only were the usual suspects running their mouths, but the mob mentality had otherwise civil players banging on weaker players in fleet (again, using myself as a reference: really bad = significantly worse than me, my highest elo is 1400 on a merc, and most are in the high 1200s/low 1300s!).

 

but yeah. it's been quiet on SF for at least 2 weeks. pops have been slower too though. and more really bad players.

 

@coppes. you may have been in the match. King Leonidas (not his in-game name) is the merc who l does the reflect while guarded running into the first fight (corellia). the healing merc that was outhealed by fairy (whose ingame name also isn't fairy) was in an orbital. I think Leonidas was on my team for that one. it was funny b/c we waited forever to get that pop, and as soon as the two healers q'd, we got the pop, and it was that pathetic orbital. lol

 

anyway... #firstworldproblems

[Floplag]

Except it's not actually a problem. You would know that if you actually played solo ranked.

 

Notice that Foxmob, who actually plays solo ranked, agrees with me on this issue, and Foxmob clearly doesn't like me and disagrees with me on all kinds of other topics.

 

Fox didnt agree with you aside from saying its currently not bad, historically it has been for a long time. This is why we are where we are, not the last couple weeks. Again you know this, there is no debate on this. But hide behind the fact that i dont take part of that somehow makes you feel better while ignoring the "why" in that statement.

[JediMasterAlex]

Fox didnt agree with you aside from saying its currently not bad, historically it has been for a long time. This is why we are where we are, not the last couple weeks. Again you know this, there is no debate on this. But hide behind the fact that i dont take part of that somehow makes you feel better while ignoring the "why" in that statement.

 

I was never talking about only the last couple weeks. Over the last year or so that I've played ranked regularly (since season 1), there are ebbs and flows, and there are a few disproportionately toxic people that can make it seem bad for a match here or a match there, but it's still not a significant issue.

 

And you're totally right to say that there's no debate on this. Toxicity is not a big problem in solo ranked. End of story. Everyone who actually plays solo ranked knows that that's the case, and some of them have said so in this very thread. You continue to ignore reality and instead offer your utterly ill-informed opinion.

Edited August 21, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[foxmob]

it ebbs in flows because A) players stop playing while they wait for tiers to be announced, and B) they've been reported so much that the next time they run their mouths that 1-2 day ban will become a month, and they want to be around when 6.0 pops.

[JediMasterAlex]

it ebbs in flows because A) players stop playing while they wait for tiers to be announced, and B) they've been reported so much that the next time they run their mouths that 1-2 day ban will become a month, and they want to be around when 6.0 pops.

 

lol maybe. I'm only aware of that one mara getting banned for being toxic. Are you saying there have been more? I don't really frequent many pvp discords because I have no interest in getting involved in the drama.

Edited August 21, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Rion_Starkiller]

If you haven't played ranked in the last 5-6 months, please see yourself out of the conversation because toxicity is far far less than it was in 2.x, 3.x. I was there, I know.

 

If you are getting flamed now in ranked it's because either 1) you found the one a-hole that exists in every type of game, or 2) you are bad AND you refuse to listen to your experienced teammates. Let's take some personal responsibility.

 

FYI: I've seen a LOT of #2 in ranked. It's not that players want you to actually GDIAF, they want you to stop queueing with them. If this were a grade school basketball game, you would be the fat kid and chosen last/not at all (no offense to fat kids, I was a bit nerdy and chunky myself).

Edited August 21, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Lhancelot]

Fox didnt agree with you aside from saying its currently not bad, historically it has been for a long time. This is why we are where we are, not the last couple weeks. Again you know this, there is no debate on this. But hide behind the fact that i dont take part of that somehow makes you feel better while ignoring the "why" in that statement.

 

It’s like telling a plumber not to express his opinion on politics because clearly he doesn’t work in politics so how could he know anything about them? Or, stepping in dog poop. I don’t have to step in the dog poop to know it’s sticky and smells bad.

 

SWTOR ranked has been bad for a really long time, adding more population to participate wouldn’t make it better. There’s a reason why it’s a very unpopular game mode on SWTOR. This only contributes to the bigger problem of a dwindling population on the game imo. If they want more players on the game, then improve the quality of the gameplay in the game.

 

TBH most people commenting on ranked actually have participated in it and like myself just ain’t played the game for 3-4 months or no longer play ranked due to all the different reasons people have brought up as to why ranked is so bad now.

 

It’s easy (and lazy) to dismiss what others say by proclaiming their opinions are not worthy of acknowledgement due to them not being qualified to comment on something when no expert opinion is needed on the topic. No conversation involving ranked PVP and the toxicity it harbors requires any sort of certification or diploma.

 

It doesn’t help anything by discounting what others say with nose held high in the air especially when others make good points. Even if they don’t make good points, or their points are disagreeable they still have every right to express their feelings and thoughts about any topic they choose.

[Raansu]

If you haven't played ranked in the last 5-6 months, please see yourself out of the conversation because toxicity is far far less than it was in 2.x, 3.x. I was there, I know.

 

lol what? No, its actually worse than back in the early seasons.

[JediMasterAlex]

It doesn’t help anything by discounting what others say with nose held high in the air especially when others make good points. Even if they don’t make good points, or their points are disagreeable they still have every right to express their feelings and thoughts about any topic they choose.

 

You are free to express yourselves on the forums as much as you want. But when your opinions are totally unsubstantiated, and in many cases just flat out wrong, it gets annoying having to constantly refute them. You have actual ranked players telling you what is actually happening in ranked, yet you refuse to accept the truth.

 

You have people that don't play ranked saying "ranked is toxic" then other people that don't play ranked point to that post and say "see, other people are saying ranked is toxic" and it's all nonsense from people that don't have a clue. All of the people posting about the state of affairs in ranked in this thread that don't actually play ranked have made no "good points" whatsoever. It's all based on misinformation, and it's shameful.

Edited August 21, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

You are free to express yourselves on the forums as much as you want. But when your opinions are totally unsubstantiated, and in many cases just flat out wrong, it gets annoying having to constantly refute them. You have actual ranked players telling you what is actually happening in ranked, yet you refuse to accept the truth.

 

You have people that don't play ranked saying "ranked is toxic" then other people that don't play ranked point to that post and say "see, other people are saying ranked is toxic" and it's all nonsense from people that don't have a clue. All of the people posting about the state of affairs in ranked in this thread that don't actually play ranked have made no "good points" whatsoever. It's all based on misinformation, and it's shameful.

 

I played solo ranked less than 6 months ago. I seriously doubt anything has changed since then. Continue on with your false narrative that i never played ranked. Ranked was toxic, is toxic, and always will be toxic.