So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

[JediMasterAlex]

Can you prove any of this? Sounds like a lot of baseless proclamations tbh.

 

Until I see SS's and time stamps along with proof of the server played I refuse to believe there are any "high quality" matches in solo ranked on SF or anywhere else.

 

Pretending you are in "high quality" matches just to get people to try ranked is noble of you, albeit a bit dishonest.

 

Sounds like a lot of phoney baloney, Alex.

 

It's really sad that you've been reduced to simply trolling me. You can joke around all you want. We both know what the actual truth is. You can go ask Lawd Flashheart, Geomagneticpoleshift, Khozar, Kimyoosux. Som was also playing on a few different characters, and so was the notoriously toxic mara (who was on a sin) that I won't name, but he wasn't toxic because he was in games with decent players. I would happily post screenshots, but I'm not going to take the time to block names out, which seems to be required on this forum.

 

The vast, vast majority of solos matches are just people playing the game. Some of them, such as the ones from earlier tonight, are at quite a high level. Again, those are actual facts from someone playing the game. As opposed to pure speculation from someone that doesn't play ranked.

[Lhancelot]

It's really sad that you've been reduced to simply trolling me. You can joke around all you want. We both know what the actual truth is. You can go ask Lawd Flashheart, Geomagneticpoleshift, Khozar, Kimyoosux. Som was also playing on a few different characters, and so was the notoriously toxic mara (who was on a sin) that I won't name, but he wasn't toxic because he was in games with decent players. I would happily post screenshots, but I'm not going to take the time to block names out, which seems to be required on this forum.

 

The vast, vast majority of solos matches are just people playing the game. Some of them, such as the ones from earlier tonight, are at quite a high level. Again, those are actual facts from someone playing the game. As opposed to pure speculation from someone that doesn't play ranked.

 

Until you prove all of this, it's nothing but pure conjecture on your part. Need proof or it's all baseless, and shameless I want to add!

[JediMasterAlex]

Until you prove all of this, it's nothing but pure conjecture on your part. Need proof or it's all baseless, and shameless I want to add!

 

Eyewitness testimony is evidence. I'm not sure why you're persisting in this foolishness when you know you're wrong.

[TrixxieTriss]

For additional perspective, for those interested, I'm queueing ranked on Star Forge right now. I've played 4 games in the last hour, and they've all been reasonably high in quality. Some of the best sages on the server are in these games. A few sub par maras and mercs. No "toxicity" whatsoever. Those are facts.

 

Why only 4 matches in an hour? If the queue is popping it should be more like 6-7 matches

[foxmob]

Why only 4 matches in an hour? If the queue is popping it should be more like 6-7 matches

 

pops are difficult to come by. the biggest problem with solo ranked is that the population is so small that players who really shouldn't be on the same map with each other end up on the same team a lot. it's why solo is a reflection of how well you can carry. it's always been a reflection of that, but before the small population was caused by too many servers and lack of x-server. now, there are only two NA servers. most players have toons on both. it really doesn't matter. the populations are too small to regularly pop decent matches of players that are roughly the same skill. it does happen. but more often than not, there's someone who doesn't belong on the map with the rest of the players (because he's so bad or because everyone else is so bad).

[JediMasterAlex]

Why only 4 matches in an hour? If the queue is popping it should be more like 6-7 matches

 

Well, first, sometimes there are gaps in the queue if people stop queueing, and second, I think I was skipped once or twice. Third, I'm not sure it was exactly an hour, I was just estimating.

 

Sometimes you get far less than 4 pops an hour. It's variable. No one disputes there are population issues, and many other issues, with solo ranked.

[TrixxieTriss]

Well, first, sometimes there are gaps in the queue if people stop queueing, and second, I think I was skipped once or twice. Third, I'm not sure it was exactly an hour, I was just estimating.

 

Sometimes you get far less than 4 pops an hour. It's variable. No one disputes there are population issues, and many other issues, with solo ranked.

 

You must realise there is a correlation on what we’ve been discussing in this thread to why there are less people queuing?

[JediMasterAlex]

You must realise there is a correlation on what we’ve been discussing in this thread to why there are less people queuing?

 

First, ranked seems to be about as popular now as it has been for the past year or so that I've been queueing regularly (since season 1). So it depends on when you're comparing to. I also think there are many other reasons that ranked has population problems, not the least of which is that the overall population of the game is lower. Perceived "toxicity" is clearly a factor for some people, but I think it's far from the main reason most choose not to play ranked. And again, even if it were, which I don't think it is, but if it were, that still wouldn't justify punishing people for their speech in my opinion.

 

Bioware should be spending their energy making positive changes to the structure of ranked, not worrying about what players say to each other in-game.

[TrixxieTriss]

First, ranked seems to be about as popular now as it has been for the past year or so that I've been queueing regularly (since season 1). So it depends on when you're comparing to. I also think there are many other reasons that ranked has population problems, not the least of which is that the overall population of the game is lower. Perceived "toxicity" is clearly a factor for some people, but I think it's far from the main reason most choose not to play ranked. And again, even if it were, which I don't think it is, but if it were, that still wouldn't justify punishing people for their speech in my opinion.

 

Bioware should be spending their energy making positive changes to the structure of ranked, not worrying about what players say to each other in-game.

 

I agree there are numerous reasons ranked has declined in numbers, you won’t get any argument about that.

Toxicity is just part of the reason. I don’t know exactly how big of a percentage it is, but it does contribute to it, There are plenty of people who’ve quit ranked for that reason.

 

My experiences aren’t just isolated to one or two cases either, I just reach a point that I’d had enough and had to decide if I was having enough fun or getting more upset with the situation. I’ve been on the receiving end and I’ve also been an enabler for not speaking up for other people when I should have. Even I’ve been drawn into saying the wrong thing due to frustration. But that doesn’t make it right.

 

At the end of the day, I stopped having fun in that sort of environment and I didn’t like how it made me feel after. So I stopped playing ranked.

 

And regs isn’t a better experience for me now and it’s not toxicity causing the problems in regs. It’s people not bothering to try and win or play properly. The only reg matches that I have any fun in are arena because people are casual, they try to win and most actually communicate proper strats or try to explain (unlike ranked), so there is less toxicity.

 

Sadly, arena only pops when the queue numbers are too low. This needs to be changed and they should be put into the normal rotation during primetime.

Making them the only map that pops during low numbers is a great idea because the queue won’t pop otherwise, but they should never have been removed from high number times.

I think removing them has contributed in part to why regs is now so ****. There is no outlet for people to just fight except in 8v8 matches and so that’s what many do.

 

Bioware too often take a good idea and implement it poorly.

 

They didn’t need to add matchmaking in regs when they made it cross faction. All they needed to do was put a limiter on how many healers could be in one team/match.

Dps certainly didn’t need match making and the way it tries to match make with premades is a joke because it doesn’t work.

If you want to have match making then premades should only be against other premades. If you want to allow random premades against pugs, then remove the match making. Or make it so the pug team has more of the highest ELO players than the premade side because it’s like you throwing a Yolo team into granked.

I’d personally prefer if they just removed the match making in regs and just restricted how many healers can be in the match and on each side.

 

I went a bit off track there. But I think a lot of the problems from different parts of pvp affect/infect other formats. The whole ranked vs regs mentality has been extremely detrimental to pvp as a whole and even the toxicity in ranked has affected regs because ranked people who don’t like toxicity play regs and don’t play to win. They play like they are in ranked and don’t give a damn about regs.

 

Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one that sees the symbiosis of the different formats of pvp in this game and how it all matters exactly the same if you want a healthy and vibrant community.

The core of the issue is attitude is poor in this game. People aren’t willing to understand that for pvp to stay healthy, they need to realise that it’s not just about them and their own values. If more people (including Bioware) were able to view the bigger picture on how “A leads to B, which affects C and can ultimately make Z bad”, then maybe things wouldn’t be so messed up.

 

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me because I’m a chess player that I can see all the moves and correlation between the different parts. It seems apparent that more people at Bioware (who make decisions) don’t play chess because they don’t seem to be able to see past the next move.

 

Sorry for the rant, just annoys me that a game I love has turned into so much trash.

[Rolodome]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Bioware set the rules and the “line in the sand” of what is acceptable behaviour. Only they can police it and they aren’t. And because players seem unable or unwilling to curb their own behaviour or regulate themselves, then it’s reasonable to ask Bioware to step in and enforce their own rules of conduct.

If that seems heavy handed, then people only have themselves to blame. Because if some of the players were mature enough to realise it’s not just about themselves, but the whole community as a whole, we wouldn’t need Bioware to do anything.

Exactly, well said. No company wants to have to police what people say. It costs money and time, and is a pain to sort out, dealing with where to draw the line and the people who are angry if you censor them in any way, shape, or form, no matter what that line looks like.

 

They do it because some kind of behavior is conflicting with their goals for the product, or putting them in a situation where they could be in legal trouble because of allowing some kind of behavior to go unchecked.

 

And in Bioware's case, well they often do nothing about lots of things in this game, presumably because of not having enough resources and funding. But it's not necessarily an indication that they don't want to, just that they can't find the priority for it for whatever reason.

 

Also, great point about how people leaving can tend to leave behind the most toxic, resulting in an increasingly poor environment over time. I would guess a big contributor to this kind of problem is the powerlessness of people being able to police each other. And I don't mean literally police each other, I mean figuratively speaking. Normally in social circles, there are consequences for going too far, sometimes going as far as being ostracized. In a game like this, the setup of it (with alts), the anonymity, etc., all help create an environment where it's difficult for people to hold each other accountable and naturally come to an agreement on what is or isn't too far in an organic way, as well as having the natural push and pull on those matters in day-to-day interactions.

 

So short of reworking these systems from the ground up, it becomes all the more vital that Bioware has some kind of role in it.

 

Correct. Another source of escalation is when the person who is obviously playing terribly and getting globaled tries to say "no dude, I couldn't do anything, they had me stun locked" or some other nonsense excuse, rather than taking responsibility for their poor play.

On the subject of what is normal or toxic, I would say this is indicative of being so far removed from the memory of being ignorant in a particular skill that you've forgotten what it's like to be new and confused. You are assuming bad faith here, that the person is trying to make excuses, when they may simply be trying to communicate to you, from their perspective, what kind of obstacles they were facing. Instead of assuming they are trying to make excuses, you could go, "Oh, well here's what you do to counter stuns, if you're not aware. XYZ. As well as keeping in mind [blah blah blah that has to do with factors relating to reasons why someone would tend to get globaled]."

 

I mean, how can they take responsibility if they don't know what they're doing wrong in the first place? So maybe in your ideal scenario they admit "I'm bad," what good does that do if they have no idea what bad looks like? A person can say "I'm bad, sorry," and be bad, or they can say it and be relatively skilled, and just not be aware enough to know the difference. Their proclamation of such a thing might be nice for social lubrication, but if your aim is to have better players as teammates, it's virtually meaningless whether they admit to such a thing.

 

What should matter is whether they know how to be better and what to aim for as an indication of having achieved a certain level of proficiency, and virtually nobody figures that stuff out without help, at some point.

[Lhancelot]

You must realise there is a correlation on what we’ve been discussing in this thread to why there are less people queuing?

 

No, he rather split hairs regarding what "toxicity" means instead of acknowledging that the verbal toxicity in ranked is connected with the toxic behavior that is also very much active in ranked especially as the season draws to the end as Mero mentioned in another thread. Mero is right, too.

 

The "preseason" part of ranked is fun, and cheats and dirty shenanigans are very uncommon. As the season picks up and draws to a conclusion, the toxicity increases due to more wintrades, cheats, hacks, queue manipulations, and yes verbal toxicity increases with the uptick of bad behavior that's present in the matches.

 

Some guys guys want to pretend they don't know any of this, though. By defending how ranked is now, people are only telling BW that "hey it's fine the way it is, don't change a thing!" This is the real shame that some people have to bear, not me.

 

Ranked is unpopular and it has everything to do with the scoring system which encourages poor gamesmanship on behalf of the players due to BW failing to discourage cheating which in turn creates an inconsistent scoring system that actually rewards cheaters better than legit players due to there being so many ways to manipulate the score of ELO.

 

The toxicity is all connected, like Trixxie says.

 

That's why ranked is considered a cesspool and avoided by new and vet players alike. it's not only verbal toxicity, it's the behavior that goes hand in hand with it, in fact that probably initiates a ton of the verbal stuff.

 

Eventually this pattern causes players to vent and be toxic to one another, even legit players can fall into this when the scoring system tends to punish them often times for things totally out of their control. Naturally this is going to cause a lot of anger and resentment, emotion that will overflow into verbal toxicity between players.

 

As long as there's a terrible scoring system in play that's easily cheated and manipulated, ranked will continue to be a dumpster fire. Especially the middle and latter part of the season as the season draws to an end when players want to get their top 3 titles and other ranked rewards before the season ends. That's when the shenanigans really pick up. And yes, it's toxic.

 

 

So short of reworking these systems from the ground up, it becomes all the more vital that Bioware has some kind of role in it.

 

I blame them 100% for the condition ranked is in. I have said this over and over, and over. Humans naturally take the easiest route, every time. It's human nature to analyze and figure out how to get stuff the easiest way possible.

 

When it comes to ranked, people have figured out so many tricks and cheats to manipulate wins and losses that BW is incapable of stopping it. This has created a cycle of bad behavior and toxicity.

 

If they cannot police the scoring and stop the bad behavior, and stop the toxicity and make the contest tighter regarding ELO scores, then clearly they should consider blowing it up and finding a new scoring system to put in place.

 

It's BW's responsibility to create a game mode that isn't easily cheated! This isn't rocket science!

 

When people rather argue and debate what "toxicity" actually means instead of facing the music and acknowledging the system is in fact bad and does create a lot of the toxicity itself then the system will simply remain the same.

 

BW has no reason to change the way ranked works when a vocal minority few on the internet defend it.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

So short of reworking these systems from the ground up, it becomes all the more vital that Bioware has some kind of role in it.

 

Everything you've said doesn't justify punishing people for their speech alone. The harm done by doing so would far outweigh any possible benefit, because the ability to freely express ourselves is always more important than people getting offended by mere speech.

 

Their proclamation of such a thing might be nice for social lubrication, but if your aim is to have better players as teammates, it's virtually meaningless whether they admit to such a thing.

 

What should matter is whether they know how to be better and what to aim for as an indication of having achieved a certain level of proficiency, and virtually nobody figures that stuff out without help, at some point.

 

I disagree. Admitting you're doing something wrong is a prerequisite to improving. No one will ever improve if they insist that they're doing nothing wrong, which is what I was getting at. So, obviously I was giving a rather simplistic example. I can flesh out a few more for you if it will help.

 

Some people are adamant about their having done nothing wrong. Such people think it's normal that they are getting globaled and have the attitude "well you try to do better! they went me first, there was nothing I could do!" When in reality there was a lot they could do. As long as they remain in denial of that, there is 0 chance that they will improve. It's also crazy to me that when they are obviously new to ranked, yet will still refuse to listen to people very experienced in ranked, because they somehow think they know better. I have seen people give as detailed advice as possible in the little time there is between rounds and are still met with "don't tell me how to play" before the person gets globaled again.

 

Other players, when confronted, will say things like "sorry I'm new." That at least shows me that they have an understanding that they are not playing well. That means they are much more likely to actually learn and improve.

 

It's also worth pointing out that it is not the players' jobs to teach people, and it is very difficult to do so in the 30 seconds or so between rounds of a ranked match. All you can do is say things like "save your breaker for net and use barrier" or "make sure you stealth out and heal." A lot of the newer players don't even know what some of those terms are.

 

The bottom line is people need to take personal responsibility for their own play. They should be learning in regs, perhaps watching streams as foxmob has suggested, reaching out to ranked players either in-game or on the forums, reading guides, etc etc. Everyone has to start somewhere, but they should, at the very least, be getting a good handle on how to use their defensive cooldowns before just jumping in, getting globaled a few times, getting yelled at, then complaining about ranked "toxicity" on the forums.

[JediMasterAlex]

Some guys guys want to pretend they don't know any of this, though. By defending how ranked is now, people are only telling BW that "hey it's fine the way it is, don't change a thing!" This is the real shame that some people have to bear, not me.

 

Anyone can look through my post history and find dozens of posts of mine where I talk about major problems in ranked that Bioware should be addressing. I've also been as outspoken as anyone about how deplorable wintrading and other cheating is in ranked.

 

This thread was dedicated to one thing, and one thing only. "Toxicity" is not a big problem in ranked, so in that one sense only am I defending ranked and the status quo. Bioware should not get involved in punishing people for their speech. At least now they only do it rarely.

 

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see all sorts of other changes. But, with that being said, ranked is still a fun and functioning game mode. Calling it a "dumpster fire" when you don't even play it is entirely meaningless, and it's obviously not true. You seem to think that lying about ranked is a noble cause because it will lead to ranked improving. That's really sad, and yes, shameful. Why don't you actually stop and think about what you're doing.

 

I also don't believe in this theory that "all toxicity is connected." Wintrading does not happen in the vast majority of ranked matches. Most players that play ranked probably never even encounter it at all. You can't seem to accept that reality. In your head every other match has leavers and throwers, but that is simply not the case. Wintrading doesn't actually cause anyone to be "toxic" in ranked matches. What causes the little "toxicity" that there is is when really bad players continuously queue and cause people to lose matches.

Edited August 23, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Raansu]

Everything you've said doesn't justify punishing people for their speech alone. The harm done by doing so would far outweigh any possible benefit, because the ability to freely express ourselves is always more important than people getting offended by mere speech.

 

Being an ahole is not freely expressing yourself. Its just being an ahole for the sake of it. And its not this rare incident that you seem to think it is either. Literally every single night you can log in and look at the pvp chat on fleet and see the insanity unfold.

[JediMasterAlex]

Being an ahole is not freely expressing yourself. Its just being an ahole for the sake of it. And its not this rare incident that you seem to think it is either. Literally every single night you can log in and look at the pvp chat on fleet and see the insanity unfold.

 

There are a handful of attention-seeking players that post a lot of nonsense in pvp chat, I'm happy to agree with that. But pvp chat on fleet is usually totally divorced from what happens in ranked matches themselves. So that doesn't get you anywhere.

 

And free expression means...free expression. You don't get to decide how people express themselves. That's the point.

[Floplag]

There are a handful of attention-seeking players that post a lot of nonsense in pvp chat, I'm happy to agree with that. But pvp chat on fleet is usually totally divorced from what happens in ranked matches themselves. So that doesn't get you anywhere.

 

And free expression means...free expression. You don't get to decide how people express themselves. That's the point.

 

Since you are insisting on hiding behind rights, lets go there... Free expression means you can say what you wish, it doesnt absolve you of the consequences of those words. As mentioned pages back the fire in a crowded theater argument.

 

Your "free expression" is largely the reason ranked is what it is. You wont admit that, you wont take the look in the mirror you should, you just hide behind things like this to try to avoid taking any responsibility for whats going on. That is literally the entire point people are trying to make to you, and you refuse to hear.

 

You have the right to be a tard, no question, but you also bear responsibility for what happens when you do so.

 

The right you dont have, is to define the term for someone else. Whether or not YOU think its toxic isnt the point, if someone else does, then it is. You dont get to tell them its not, you do not have that right to make that decision for them.

 

Continue to hide behind this all you wish, but in doing so you only prove the case against you.

[JediMasterAlex]

Since you are insisting on hiding behind rights, lets go there... Free expression means you can say what you wish, it doesnt absolve you of the consequences of those words. As mentioned pages back the fire in a crowded theater argument.

 

The First Amendment absolves you from legal consequences for your speech in most circumstances (more than anywhere else in the world in fact). Obviously Bioware can do whatever it wants, but players should face only social consequences for their speech, not punishment from Bioware. I've already pointed out to you why shouting fire in a crowded theater is an exception to free speech. It is considered incitement, because it's designed to cause a panic that could result in people getting physically hurt. There's no analogy to being "toxic" in a video game.

 

Your "free expression" is largely the reason ranked is what it is. You wont admit that, you wont take the look in the mirror you should, you just hide behind things like this to try to avoid taking any responsibility for whats going on.

 

This is just nonsense. Ranked isn't very "toxic" at all. If you actually played it, you would know that.

 

You have the right to be a tard, no question, but you also bear responsibility for what happens when you do so.

 

As long as those consequences come from other players and not Bioware, absolutely.

 

The right you dont have, is to define the term for someone else. Whether or not YOU think its toxic isnt the point, if someone else does, then it is. You dont get to tell them its not, you do not have that right to make that decision for them.

 

More nonsense. Some people find anything "toxic." I guarantee that you've said things in game that someone else has considered toxic. You ready to ban yourself?

 

Continue to hide behind this all you wish, but in doing so you only prove the case against you.

 

I don't even know what you're talking about. What am I hiding behind? lol

Edited August 23, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Flamenfrom]

 

You have the right to be a tard, no question, but you also bear responsibility for what happens when you do so.

 

The right you dont have, is to define the term for someone else. Whether or not YOU think its toxic isnt the point, if someone else does, then it is. You dont get to tell them its not, you do not have that right to make that decision for them.

 

Yes i agree so if somebody acts like a tard ques as a healer and get's globalled in 5sec he should be prepared to get toxed out/vote to kicked out of team till he gets better.

[Lhancelot]

The right you dont have, is to define the term for someone else. Whether or not YOU think its toxic isnt the point, if someone else does, then it is. You dont get to tell them its not, you do not have that right to make that decision for them.

 

Excellent point regarding this topic. ^

 

For some reason Alex wants to argue about what is toxic and what is not instead of looking at the big picture which is what I have tried to explain from my perspective that being what causes the toxicity.

 

Ironically, his very argument is flawed by the fact that no one can tell someone else that what is written or said isn’t toxic if that person finds it toxic, lol.

 

You can’t run around saying whatever you want just because you think you have freedom of expression to say anything you want. Well, you can but be prepared to suffer some seriously grave consequences.

 

Imo we can thank the internet and it’s shield of anonymity for emboldening people to “express” themselves in every way imaginable using words and speech that should not be used the way they are towards other people. I mean let’s be real, the majority of the players in ranked that spew toxic insults etc. would never utter anything of the kind to your face. Anonymity grants courage that otherwise would never exist.

 

IMO, the way ranked is setup has had the biggest impact on player behavior or what we are calling toxicity. Part of it is a poor scoring system and the other part is equally poor policing of the contest to ensure cheating is punished as well as curbed so it’s not a disruptive force that compromises the contests.

 

It’s all connected, and yes player participation is affected by all of these factors, particularly the toxicity has a negative affect on many players so much so it only takes a few experiences for them to not even bother playing ranked.

 

My solution is not to worry so much about what people are saying with verbal toxicity but instead find the root of what causes them to behave so badly, and in my mind the system is to blame, BW is to blame. People truly are the result of their environment and the ranked scoring system and lack of proper punishment as well as the barrage of cheating going on has created this really ugly culture that has been in ranked for years.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

My solution is not to worry so much about what people are saying with verbal toxicity but instead find the root of what causes them to behave so badly, and in my mind the system is to blame, BW is to blame. People truly are the result of their environment and the ranked scoring system and lack of proper punishment as well as the barrage of cheating going on has created this really ugly culture that has been in ranked for years.

 

While I disagree with much of your post, including about the "toxicity" being connected part as well as the "barrage of cheating" phrase, ironically we are ultimately on the same page. Ranked's problems are Bioware's responsibility, and they should be worried about the structure of ranked, not what players say to each other.

 

Also, I've already answered what makes players "toxic." It's when players that don't belong in ranked ruin games for them. That doesn't justify some of the particular language some people use, but that is what causes the little "toxicity" that there is in ranked. There's no mystery.

Edited August 23, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[AlrikFassbauer]

Some people are adamant about their having done nothing wrong. Such people think it's normal that they are getting globaled and have the attitude "well you try to do better! they went me first, there was nothing I could do!" When in reality there was a lot they could do. As long as they remain in denial of that, there is 0 chance that they will improve. It's also crazy to me that when they are obviously new to ranked, yet will still refuse to listen to people very experienced in ranked, because they somehow think they know better. I have seen people give as detailed advice as possible in the little time there is between rounds and are still met with "don't tell me how to play" before the person gets globaled again.

 

Other players, when confronted, will say things like "sorry I'm new." That at least shows me that they have an understanding that they are not playing well. That means they are much more likely to actually learn and improve.

 

Today's newspaper has an very interesting article in it. It says that a university is desparately (spelling ?) looking for female e-sports teams for a study - and can't find any.

 

One among several assumptions because why they can't find any is - apart from harassment because boys don't want their toys be broken by girls, and games = toys -

 

- is simply this :

 

Boys and men play competitive in general

Girls and Women play coperatively in general

 

and that's in my opinion why Ranked is so toxic : It's simply psychological warfare.

To get other competors out by hurting them mentally and psychologically.

 

Trash talk is imho simply a weapon on a verbal level.

Nothing than that.

Edited August 23, 2019 by AlrikFassbauer

[Floplag]

The First Amendment absolves you from legal consequences for your speech in most circumstances (more than anywhere else in the world in fact). Obviously Bioware can do whatever it wants, but players should face only social consequences for their speech, not punishment from Bioware. I've already pointed out to you why shouting fire in a crowded theater is an exception to free speech. It is considered incitement, because it's designed to cause a panic that could result in people getting physically hurt. There's no analogy to being "toxic" in a video game.

 

 

 

This is just nonsense. Ranked isn't very "toxic" at all. If you actually played it, you would know that.

 

 

 

As long as those consequences come from other players and not Bioware, absolutely.

 

 

 

More nonsense. Some people find anything "toxic." I guarantee that you've said things in game that someone else has considered toxic. You ready to ban yourself?

 

 

 

I don't even know what you're talking about. What am I hiding behind? lol

 

No, it does not absolve you of anything, if it did things such as libel or slander would not exist. WE would not be subject to being fired for calling our boss a jerk. etc, etc, etc...

The rest is just you being part of the problem, we all know that, its a pity you dont. If you made half as much effort to change it, as you do to defend it, it wouldnt be a problem at all.

[Lhancelot]

Also, I've already answered what makes players "toxic." It's when players that don't belong in ranked ruin games for them. That doesn't justify some of the particular language some people use, but that is what causes the little "toxicity" that there is in ranked. There's no mystery.

 

Ok, my problem with this part is it's easy to say this coming from someone that probably doesn't get sent a lot of toxic tells after a lost match like someone that is inexperienced or just "bad."

 

You also are established in ranked, with many pals and acquaintances too, right? No wonder you don't see much toxicity when you define toxicity only as verbal insults.

 

It's easy to make the rules as to what defines "toxicity" when we ourselves are not very often inflicted with it, right?

 

You are an experienced player, probably well above average in ranked, and so it's easy for you to say toxicity is simply the matter of bad players ruining your matches.

 

What about players having their matches ruined by wintrades and cheats? How is this not creating a toxic environment, or having a direct influence on how players treat each other when they are supremely irritated and upset?

 

I do not justify this behavior by saying the game makes them do it, however I have to recognize the game's environment does have a big influence on how people behave with one another in ranked.

 

I disagree with your very limited view of what is toxic in ranked, and what is not, I guess. I understand the OP's main gripe was about verbal toxicity, but to pretend nothing else in ranked can be considered toxic is irresponsible, as you like to say.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lhancelot

[JediMasterAlex]

No, it does not absolve you of anything, if it did things such as libel or slander would not exist. WE would not be subject to being fired for calling our boss a jerk. etc, etc, etc...

The rest is just you being part of the problem, we all know that, its a pity you dont. If you made half as much effort to change it, as you do to defend it, it wouldnt be a problem at all.

 

You should really educate yourself on the First Amendment. I don't really feel like turning this into a legal seminar.

 

What about players having their matches ruined by wintrades and cheats? How is this not creating a toxic environment, or having a direct influence on how players treat each other when they are supremely irritated and upset?

 

I do not justify this behavior by saying the game makes them do it, however I have to recognize the game's environment does have a big influence on how people behave with one another in ranked.

 

I disagree with your very limited view of what is toxic in ranked, and what is not, I guess. I understand the OP's main gripe was about verbal toxicity, but to pretend nothing else in ranked can be considered toxic is irresponsible, as you like to say.

 

I mean, again, wintrading and cheating is terrible. It should be punished harshly. But it doesn't happen nearly as much as you think it does. Out of thousands of players that play ranked (overall, over the course of a season), only a few dozen wintrade. And I don't see why it's necessary to label it as "toxic." I mean, if you want to, fine, but I don't see how that's helpful.

 

Defining "toxicity" so broadly is just confusing when we're talking about a narrower set of issues in this thread.

Edited August 23, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Zurules]

You are free to express yourselves on the forums as much as you want. But when your opinions are totally unsubstantiated, and in many cases just flat out wrong, it gets annoying having to constantly refute them. You have actual ranked players telling you what is actually happening in ranked, yet you refuse to accept the truth.

 

If you add the word GROUP in front of ever RANKED, you get my exact argument against YOU

 

It's really weird seeing you use my DELUSIONAL arguments against someone else