Please lower the skytrooper amount in KOTFE/KOTET

[ShieldProtection]

I do love story content in this game, SWTOR is my second most played MMO game all time, however this whole kotfe/kotet content takes so much time to finish and skytroopers literally EVERYWHERE in these two expansions, actually skytroopers are the only reason I do not want to do kotfe/kotet, its so boring to do in every step there is two more 4 more 6 more skytroopers, its so tedious.

 

I think its time to lower the amount of them in this two content, defeating them takes so much time because they are literally everywhere. To pass a gate/door I have to defeat 4 random skytroopers, then move a bit and then 4 more of them just ahead and two are Strong and others low quality NPC. It is so boring and almost makes me delete my character.

 

We are going to get another expansion in soon, so most people already done these kotfe and kotet stories, so please lower the skytroopers amount in levels or remove them completely. I purchased a 60 token a while ago and never touched it because of kotfe and kotet. because of the skytroopers.

 

I do love kotfe/kotet expansions, its just skytroopers makes it hard to complete.

 

Please consider doing this,

[SteveTheCynic]

skytroopers literally EVERYWHERE in these two expansions

No. *Figuratively* everywhere.

 

The following chapters contain no skytroopers:

* KotFE IX

* KotFE XII

* KotFE XIII

* KotET II

* KotET V

* KotET VI

* KotET VII

 

OK, only seven out of 25, but that does mean that they are not everywhere.

[Pirana]

That's a huge part of the reason why I only ran that story content on a few characters, it was overkill on certain chapters. Even as a stealther you couldn't bypass most of it. I am glad they made it so you can skip it all by heading straight to Ossus now.

[ZionHalcyon]

No. *Figuratively* everywhere.

 

The following chapters contain no skytroopers:

* KotFE IX

* KotFE XII

* KotFE XIII

* KotET II

* KotET V

* KotET VI

* KotET VII

 

OK, only seven out of 25, but that does mean that they are not everywhere.

 

You know what the op means, and he is right.

[ZionHalcyon]

I agree with the OP.

 

There are 2 fundamental issues with many of the KotFE levels (KotET isn't as bad, but still need some love):

 

1) The mob placement is way too dense, especially in areas where its a slog to a destination, and then a slog back. Its not fun. Fewer mobs that offer more XP would be more desireable.

 

2) KotFE and KotET crap on stealth classes. Someone stealth trying to skip all these mobs is detected every time. If someone wants to be stealth and miss out on the XP - LET THEM. Allow Stealth to mean something in KotFE and KotET.

[SteveTheCynic]

You know what the op means, and he is right.

I'm fighting a losing battle against the inversion of "literally" to mean "figuratively"(0), since they were originally *antonyms" or as near as any pair of words can be to that, but no, he's wrong.

 

The request is equivalent to someone in the run-up to RotHC asking that once it's released they reduce the number of Imperial troops in the various Pub class story planets and Pub soldiers in the various Imp class story planets.

 

In my opinion, the only chapter where the skytroopers are remotely bothersome is KotFE Chapter X, which I nicknamed "Skytrooper Central" for a reason, although even there I've noticed that there *already* seem to be fewer of them. It's possible that I have merely found ways to use Shadowassassin stealth(1)(2) to cheese the various security hubs.

 

(1) Those are the classes that I've done X on most recently.

 

(2) I dislike Scoundreloperative, although the level of dislike barely rates "passion that burns like a match that's about to expire" level.

 

EDIT: Footnote 0 added:

(0) In "His head literally exploded", we should not mean that afterwards, people were left sc****** blobs of brains and fragments of skull off the walls.

Edited July 8, 2019 by SteveTheCynic

[DarkTergon]

I

2) KotFE and KotET crap on stealth classes. Someone stealth trying to skip all these mobs is detected every time. If someone wants to be stealth and miss out on the XP - LET THEM. Allow Stealth to mean something in KotFE and KotET.

 

I've also noticed they seem to detect stealth a lot easier in the later stuff too, or when you try to stealth out of a fight, even if you are far enough away, it doesn't work

[Rolodome]

As far as I can tell, it's an issue of difference in design, which is why the request is "lower the amount." In most content, there's loads of trash on the way to stuff, but it's relatively easy to bypass something like 50% or more of it (up to 100% if you're a stealth class).

 

In most of KOTFE/KOTET, trash is difficult, if not impossible, to bypass. Even as stealth, there are loads of encounters that come from mobs spawning when you hit a certain point in the map, and those mobs force you into combat, regardless of whether you're stealthed. Sometimes you can't even leash, unlike in most vanilla content. And numerous of the maps are designed with tight corners and narrow hallways such that there's no chance of you maneuvering past static groups without aggroing, unless you're a stealth class.

 

Why it was designed this way is a mystery to me. I've always speculated they thought they could liven up the game by turning it into some sort of action-adventure game, but naturally fell short because it's got MMORPG-style combat, where forcing you to start combat on the computer's whim and forcing you to stay in prolonged encounters is generally a bad idea for trash because you just end up weak and ineffective over time, since the "fun" abilities go on cooldown and you have to flail at stuff with your weaker attacks.

 

Edit: Not to mention the fact that the evidence would indicate most people plain hate killing trash. I've been in flashpoint situations where it took people longer to bypass a group of trash than it would have taken to kill it. At a certain point, you have to look at that and ask why people avoid it so much. Given my observations in how diligently people avoid trash, that KOTFE/KOTET went in the direction of embracing trash and forcing loads of it on you never ceases to amaze me.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rolodome

[ZionHalcyon]

As far as I can tell, it's an issue of difference in design, which is why the request is "lower the amount." In most content, there's loads of trash on the way to stuff, but it's relatively easy to bypass something like 50% or more of it (up to 100% if you're a stealth class).

 

In most of KOTFE/KOTET, trash is difficult, if not impossible, to bypass. Even as stealth, there are loads of encounters that come from mobs spawning when you hit a certain point in the map, and those mobs force you into combat, regardless of whether you're stealthed. Sometimes you can't even leash, unlike in most vanilla content. And numerous of the maps are designed with tight corners and narrow hallways such that there's no chance of you maneuvering past static groups without aggroing, unless you're a stealth class.

 

Why it was designed this way is a mystery to me. I've always speculated they thought they could liven up the game by turning it into some sort of action-adventure game, but naturally fell short because it's got MMORPG-style combat, where forcing you to start combat on the computer's whim and forcing you to stay in prolonged encounters is generally a bad idea for trash because you just end up weak and ineffective over time, since the "fun" abilities go on cooldown and you have to flail at stuff with your weaker attacks.

 

I am going to bank on "programming the mobs to ignore stealth was too much work for us."

[MikeCobalt]

Is it the Number# of SkyTroopers that's the Problem or their Hitpoints (usually 26,000 I think) that causes the "Slowdown of the game flow" that is the big issue? This is an army of *Soldiers and Star Wars is well known for mass's of StormTroopers in their scenes.

[Yunaselly]

I always Skip Kotfe & kotet because of this..

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Why it was designed this way is a mystery to me. I've always speculated they thought they could liven up the game by turning it into some sort of action-adventure game, but naturally fell short because it's got MMORPG-style combat, where forcing you to start combat on the computer's whim and forcing you to stay in prolonged encounters is generally a bad idea for trash because you just end up weak and ineffective over time, since the "fun" abilities go on cooldown and you have to flail at stuff with your weaker attacks..

 

It is simple, if not lazy game design. The more trash that you are forced to fight, the longer the player takes to finish a chapter. It is a way of placing artificial time player for each chapter, resulting in the player not chewing through content so fast. That was their thinking I bet, since it is easier then just making the story so exciting that you would WANT to replay it.

[Rolodome]

I am going to bank on "programming the mobs to ignore stealth was too much work for us."

Could be.

 

Is it the Number# of SkyTroopers that's the Problem or their Hitpoints (usually 26,000 I think) that causes the "Slowdown of the game flow" that is the big issue? This is an army of *Soldiers and Star Wars is well known for mass's of StormTroopers in their scenes.

Personally, I think it's a combination of the two. HP is a factor, but so is the numbers of them. As a hypothetical to explain what I mean, say they were to halve the skytrooper HP (and with enough power creep from expansions/gear, you could maybe get close to this at a certain point without them doing anything) there's still the problem of how many there are and that some of them literally have to go through an appearing/landing animation fully before you can even engage them.

 

So with enough extra kick, you'd kill them significantly faster, but you could end up in a situation where you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs, waiting for them to spawn while they're immune. Which, by the way, is pretty poor when it comes to immersion. If they want to make it an action-adventure, at least let us attack the mobs while they're spawning if we're fast enough. Instead of this silly nonsense about waiting for an animation to play out (which has always been a problem with mobs who spawn at a certain place/event in this game - static groups don't have this problem).

[Rolodome]

It is simple, if not lazy game design. The more trash that you are forced to fight, the longer the player takes to finish a chapter. It is a way of placing artificial time player for each chapter, resulting in the player not chewing through content so fast. That was their thinking I bet, since it is easier then just making the story so exciting that you would WANT to replay it.

Sadly, you may be right. I like to assume they were wanting to make it exciting and missed the mark for some of us, but there is definitely indications of conscious padding in some chapters. Like Chapter 9 I think it is (I forget the numbers, I'm trying not to do spoilers) where you have to go do this objective clicky stuff at a few different copy/paste locations and fight mobs at each one.

[MikeCobalt]

Could be.

Personally, I think it's a combination of the two. HP is a factor, but so is the numbers of them. As a hypothetical to explain what I mean, say they were to halve the skytrooper HP (and with enough power creep from expansions/gear, you could maybe get close to this at a certain point without them doing anything) there's still the problem of how many there are and that some of them literally have to go through an appearing/landing animation fully before you can even engage them.

 

So with enough extra kick, you'd kill them significantly faster, but you could end up in a situation where you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs, waiting for them to spawn while they're immune. Which, by the way, is pretty poor when it comes to immersion. If they want to make it an action-adventure, at least let us attack the mobs while they're spawning if we're fast enough. Instead of this silly nonsense about waiting for an animation to play out (which has always been a problem with mobs who spawn at a certain place/event in this game - static groups don't have this problem).

 

I gotcha; Probably right. Internet games are different then watching movies in that regard. I Do, like the Epic Star Wars battle scenes and certain parts of SWTOR do remind me of them but I also do Understand Not EveryBody else does. Maybe have two variations (here we go making more work then they want to again). One version for small number area's like guarding door ways, Escorts or the Star Fortress's that do have the full 26K hitpoints and the second battle version with only half the hitpoints (13K). This would be very indicative of the SW movies where the troop mass's but quickly dropped by quickly keeping the "Holy Crap" first impression. Whatever BW does I do try to "Hope" it comes out fun, Star Warsy, Memorable moments and in the end a *Challenge I can be proud of winning.

 

Movie Battle Pics, some SWTOR also

https://imgur.com/KdfDnnE

https://imgur.com/auxn1vg

https://imgur.com/4lsqoqk

https://imgur.com/WSc7gOo

https://imgur.com/IsL9BEm

https://imgur.com/zjBLwKB

https://imgur.com/nSseMw4

 

And a Favorite scene I like, this one *Inspires me to play SWTOR every time

https://imgur.com/V8pwqOk

I was actually Hoping Darvannas would be more like "Attack of the Clones" battle scenes.

Edited July 9, 2019 by MikeCobalt

[Rolodome]

I gotcha; Probably right. Internet games are different then watching movies in that regard. I Do, like the Epic Star Wars battle scenes and certain parts of SWTOR do remind me of them but I also do Understand Not EveryBody else does. Maybe have two variations (here we go making more work then they want to again). One version for small number area's like guarding door ways, Escorts or the Star Fortress's that do have the full 26K hitpoints and the second battle version with only half the hitpoints (13K). This would be very indicative of the SW movies where the troop mass's but quickly dropped by quickly keeping the "Holy Crap" first impression. Whatever BW does I do try to "Hope" it comes out fun, Star Warsy, Memorable moments and in the end a *Challenge I can be proud of winning.

 

Movie Battle Pics, some SWTOR also

https://imgur.com/KdfDnnE

https://imgur.com/auxn1vg

https://imgur.com/4lsqoqk

https://imgur.com/WSc7gOo

https://imgur.com/IsL9BEm

https://imgur.com/zjBLwKB

https://imgur.com/nSseMw4

 

And a Favorite scene I like, this one *Inspires me to play SWTOR every time

https://imgur.com/V8pwqOk

I was actually Hoping Darvannas would be more like "Attack of the Clones" battle scenes.

I think I see what you're saying. FWIW, I may be more of a video games fan than I am a Star Wars fan, if you get my meaning. For me it's more about playing out fun game mechanics than it is living out a specific fantasy. Sometimes I forget that not everybody sees video games that way and I think it's a difficult thing for me to assimilate at times because I grew up playing board games, where there was no particular fantasy, it was just pure game mechanics and imagination. So it's hard for me to let go of seeing "games" as being that and see them as something that can be more fantasy-fulfilling. I tend to want to think of video games as just being games with the meaning attached behind video appended. As opposed to video being something that can be at the forefront of it.

[Chelan]

I didn't start hating skytroopers until they started popping out of nowhere. If they changed it so that all the skytroopers you had to fight per chapter was already spawned from the beginning, I would definitely like these chapters more.

 

Instead, every time they popped up, I just rolled my eyes and groaned. It just looked like they were trying really hard to pad these chapters. It's why I skip KotFE and KotET, all the surprise enemies just grates at me. Also, waaaaaaaaaay too many cutscenes that didn't involve my character. If my character isn't there spouting zingers, I'm really not interested.

[Sarlegant]

While I understand these discussions, at this point, it’s time to move along.

I do understand it’s a mob fest, but I am gonna be selfish here. If BioWare has 12 devs working, I want them working on new content, not bleeding off manhours to rework old content that has been successfully run thousands of times.

 

If it’s red, it needs to be dead. Just think of zakuul as a target rich environment. When it’s over, you can then brag about how your walked to school, uphill, thru snow, both ways. We had it tough, now get you some of the same.

[TrixxieTriss]

LoL, sorry but if you are playing SM, you can literally AOE spam kill most troopers in less than 10 seconds. And if I’m playing a melee class like a Jugg, I can usually instant kill the first guy I leap to.

 

The game is easy in SM and the mobs die so fast in this game that the amount of troopers around are meaningless. Maybe if they were harder to grind through, then I would agree there are a lot.

 

But seriously, they die so fast that the amount shouldn’t even slow you down. I know it doesn’t slow me. Most of the time I’m on full forward the whole time and they die as I pass them.

[Arundo]

The story is great but yes some of those quests are so tedious that I cant get myself to do them again on the next toon. Did the whole story 3 times now but no more

[Celise]

I've also noticed they seem to detect stealth a lot easier in the later stuff too, or when you try to stealth out of a fight, even if you are far enough away, it doesn't work

 

original enemies have a detection range of typically 10 meters if your fast enough to get around them, preferably from behind. typically 15 meters is when non stealthed players can sneak by NPCs just standing there. FE and ET stealth values are pointless and you are always going to be detected which is why i never run around in stealth on those expacs at all.

 

i don't mind the skytroopers, but the pacing is a bit tedious for sure.

[DarthCasus]

LoL, sorry but if you are playing SM, you can literally AOE spam kill most troopers in less than 10 seconds. And if I’m playing a melee class like a Jugg, I can usually instant kill the first guy I leap to.

 

The game is easy in SM and the mobs die so fast in this game that the amount of troopers around are meaningless. Maybe if they were harder to grind through, then I would agree there are a lot.

 

But seriously, they die so fast that the amount shouldn’t even slow you down. I know it doesn’t slow me. Most of the time I’m on full forward the whole time and they die as I pass them.

 

The issue is when they're falling when you sneeze in their general direction, that's still time wasted. I actually can get with the story despite my gripes with it and all but the gameplay alone makes me skip it on ALL Republic toons because nothing of value would be lost and just not play at all on 13/17 of my Imp toons on Star Forge alone. It's not doing ANYONE any favors remaining the way it is. They might as well remove them but the lack of comment from BioWare on this topic says a lot.

[TrixxieTriss]

The issue is when they're falling when you sneeze in their general direction, that's still time wasted. I actually can get with the story despite my gripes with it and all but the gameplay alone makes me skip it on ALL Republic toons because nothing of value would be lost and just not play at all on 13/17 of my Imp toons on Star Forge alone. It's not doing ANYONE any favors remaining the way it is. They might as well remove them but the lack of comment from BioWare on this topic says a lot.

 

It’s also a time sink. The more time people spend grinding through it, the less content they need to make.

[Neocorteqz]

Putting my Vote in for less. I am doing FE right now and I feel like it's taking Fooooooooorever to finish a chapter.

 

Please Lower the amount or make it easier to avoid mobs.

[Suzsi]

I vote to leave the chapters alone.

 

Played them many times and will continue to do so. It's supposed to feel like a war with skytroopers dropping everywhere and it does. Walking from a to b with one mob here and 2 there always in the same spot everytime- now thats boring and snooze worthy.