It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

[Chelan]

Until they see HK as a companion on fleet. Just as people saw Nico and Shae...Oh wait...

 

Curious how they offered Nico and Shae and (apart from BRKSM, who claims s/he knows people who left the game over this issue)...

 

Alderaan is still around for 3,000 more years.

 

The difference here is CONTENT (read Eric's post). Frankly, the case against re-releasing Nico and Shae (excluding her superiority) is stronger than the chapter on HK.

 

Dasty

 

That's just PR Gobbledygook. If Bioware wanted to offer this "content" again they would have already. Like they can't make up their minds? It's as simple a question as "do we want to make more money off this or not?"

 

In the end though, with the same amount of money you could get 2 Hypercrates. Two! I bet that has more content than this one chapter.

[robertthebard]

Until they see HK as a companion on fleet. Just as people saw Nico and Shae...Oh wait...

 

Curious how they offered Nico and Shae and (apart from BRKSM, who claims s/he knows people who left the game over this issue)...

 

Alderaan is still around for 3,000 more years.

 

The difference here is CONTENT (read Eric's post). Frankly, the case against re-releasing Nico and Shae (excluding her superiority) is stronger than the chapter on HK.

 

Dasty

 

Because you see 2 comps, and others see "just another broken promise", like Andromeda, or Anthem, or this promotion. Did people leave because of this? I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did. Some of us are gamers, that play a lot of games, and get tired of being sold some snake oil in the guise of special content. It's sure going to be hard, going forward, to believe any promotional materials BW releases, because no matter what they promise in said promotion, it can come back to a situation like this, where they're considering "We know what we told you, but...". I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that people jetted out, but it's not "2 comps", it's promising one thing, and doing something else.

[Jdast]

That's just PR Gobbledygook. If Bioware wanted to offer this "content" again they would have already. Like they can't make up their minds? It's as simple a question as "do we want to make more money off this or not?"

 

In the end though, with the same amount of money you could get 2 Hypercrates. Two! I bet that has more content than this one chapter.

 

When a Hypercrate offers story content, you have a point. Until then...

 

<<sips martini>>

 

Dasty

[Jdast]

It's sure going to be hard, going forward, to believe any promotional materials BW releases,

 

Not for those of us who understand English and the EULA.

 

<<sips martini>>

 

Dasty

Edited May 28, 2019 by Jdast

[Chelan]

When a Hypercrate offers story content, you have a point. Until then...

 

<<sips martini>>

 

Dasty

 

Look, friend. I don't know if you've ever opened a Hypercrate or not but I would highly suggest you do so. It's very therapeutic. If you are not inclined to spend the money, Swtorista has a few videos up on Youtube.

 

In the end, aren't the content we make ourselves better than one given to us?

Edited May 28, 2019 by Chelan

[Jdast]

Look, friend. I don't know if you've ever opened a Hypercrate or not but I would highly suggest you do so. It's very therapeutic. If you are not inclined to spend the money, Swtorista has a few videos up on Youtube.

 

In the end, aren't the content we make ourselves better than one given to us?

 

When I open a Hypercrate, my RP experience is enhanced: I can play Space Ken; I can shoot new funky weapons;I can deco my strongholds; and I can ride funky new mounts, etc.

 

That is categorically and qualitatively different from experiencing new and different quests. It's not a difference of degree, it's a difference of kind.

 

Dasty

Edited May 29, 2019 by Jdast

[Drenovade]

Not for those of us who understand English and the EULA.

 

<<sips martini>>

 

Dasty

 

They really are a broken record at this point. The "I've been lied to!" argument has been debunked too many times already. No one is buying that fake outrage.

 

Shae, Nico, the 2012 Chevin and Rakghoul event rewards, the swoop bike mount(Kakkran Daggerstar) that was originally a 2015 sub reward and then included in the Amazon and Origin starter/deluxe packs. All were marketed as exclusive rewards. All were made available again because none were implied to remain exclusive forever.

 

This delusion of being entitled to permanent exclusivity needs to be put to rest. Some promotional rewards return, many others don't. No one will want to take that risk if they really want a reward in future promotions, much less want to wait 3 years and potentially pay more for it.

 

The bonus chapter won't be the first, nor the last, promotional reward to come back. Even Ranos is likely to return at some point, given their history of bringing back old event rewards(and making them much more difficult to obtain the second time around).

Edited May 29, 2019 by Drenovade

[ceryxp]

...(screw the Oxford comma)...

 

Dasty

 

I was with you up to that point. Them's fightin' words!

 

This is one area where I'd get into arguments with my journalism professors. AP writing style doesn't use the Oxford comma and I'd frequently intentionally misinterpret lines of text that lacked the OC.

Edited May 28, 2019 by ceryxp

[robertthebard]

They really are a broken record at this point. The "I've been lied to!" argument has been debunked too many times already. No one is buying that fake outrage.

 

Shae, Nico, the 2012 Chevin and Rakghoul event rewards, the swoop bike mount(Kakkran Daggerstar) that was originally a 2015 sub reward and then included in the Amazon and Origin starter/deluxe packs. All were marketed as exclusive rewards. All were made available again because none were implied to remain exclusive forever.

 

This delusion of being entitled to permanent exclusivity needs to be put to rest. Some promotional rewards return, many others don't. No one will want to take that risk if they really want a reward in future promotions, much less want to wait 3 years and potentially pay more for it.

 

The bonus chapter won't be the first, nor the last, promotional reward to come back. Even Ranos is likely to return at some point, given their history of bringing back old event rewards(and making them much more difficult to obtain the second time around).

 

How is doing exactly what had to be done to earn this bonus content potentially paying more for it? Did the sub prices go up between then and now? "But it's three year old content", no, it's not, it's three year old bonus content. For all the talk about my lack of understanding of English, it sure seems like people love to ignore that word: Bonus. Now, since the popular line is "rob can't understand English", I'd assume ya'll can? So I don't need to hit up a dictionary to define bonus for you?

 

When you run a promotion promising bonus content for meeting certain requirements, and then decide to go back on that, it is a lie. It's a textbook definition: Promise one thing, do something else. But I'm the one struggling with the English language. I love the cherry picking too. Surely, since those that are doing it are also condemning my understanding of English knows what that means, and I don't have to define it, right? Except that I know I'll have to. Why? Because it's a popular tactic for "some people", to take lines out of context so they can attack, instead of just responding to what was said.

 

Here's another example of people calling out my understanding of English that totally fail to grasp English: Musco didn't ask for positive reinforcement to re-release this content. He asked for all feedback. Now surely, again, I don't have to define "all feedback" to those inclined to trash my understanding of the English language, right? Except that I will probably have to, because we'll be right back to "but it's three year old content". Again, it's not, it's three year old "bonus content". By definition, it's something one has that another doesn't, hence "bonus".

[Jdast]

 

 

Here's another example of people calling out my understanding of English that totally fail to grasp English: Musco didn't ask for positive reinforcement to re-release this content. He asked for all feedback. Now surely, again, I don't have to define "all feedback" to those inclined to trash my understanding of the English language, right?

 

Completely disingenuous and off-point.

 

We didn't call out your understanding of Eric's request. We called out your understanding of the original HK promotion as presented (i.e., the plain meaning of the text) and your understanding (or lack thereof) of the EULA.

 

Two completely and entirely different things. Your shell game failed. Classic, yet poorly executed deflection. We accuse you of A and you have no defense. So you switch to -- they accused me of B and I can prove that's idiotic.

 

Meesa not gonna fall for that. We never accused you of B -- in this case Eric asking only for positive feedback.

 

Dasty

Edited May 29, 2019 by Jdast

[robertthebard]

Completely disingenuous and off-point.

 

We didn't call out your understanding of Eric's request. We called out your understanding of the original HK promotion as presented (i.e., the plain meaning of the text) and your understanding (or lack thereof) of the EULA.

 

Two completely and entirely different things. Your shell game failed. Classic, yet poorly executed deflection. We accuse you of A and you have no defense. So you switch to -- they accused me of B and I can prove that's idiotic.

 

Meesa not gonna fall for that. We never accused you of B -- in this case Eric asking only for positive feedback.

 

Dasty

 

...and yet, the very post I quoted claims that my feedback has been "debunked". Why, one may ask? Because it's inconvenient, or because they don't like it, and so, it's debunked. Here's the thing: You can't debunk one's expectations. For example: No matter what I say, one side of this discussion is always going to expect that BW is going to re-release this content. If BW posted in this thread today that they weren't going to do it, another thread would pop up later, "requesting" the same thing.

 

But let's talk about shell games: "It's three year old content, so it's not worth what others have already paid" or "it's three year old content, it should be free or don't bother". Both rather convincing shell games for "I want it, but because I'm a sub now, I shouldn't be expected to do anything to get it". That's the subtext needed for "it should only be 6 months of sub, retroactively applied" isn't it. Maybe the problem isn't that I don't understand English, but that I understand it all too well, and can see a con a mile away.

[robertthebard]

Oh, I fully understand that I'm wasting my time, but it's not like I've got anything better to do. There's enough pages of pure "it's not fair that they have bonus content that I didn't meet the qualifications for" for BW to decide to re-release it. It's why words like "bonus" get left out of the narrative. Edited May 29, 2019 by CommunityDroidEU
Moderated quote removed

[Drenovade]

Completely disingenuous and off-point.

 

We didn't call out your understanding of Eric's request. We called out your understanding of the original HK promotion as presented (i.e., the plain meaning of the text) and your understanding (or lack thereof) of the EULA.

 

Two completely and entirely different things. Your shell game failed. Classic, yet poorly executed deflection. We accuse you of A and you have no defense. So you switch to -- they accused me of B and I can prove that's idiotic.

 

Meesa not gonna fall for that. We never accused you of B -- in this case Eric asking only for positive feedback.

 

Dasty

 

Some of the ones against the idea(the same 3 people really) have been disingenuous from the start, so there's no surprise there. Unfortunately, I think we were too hopeful in entertaining their confused statements as though it would get through to them eventually.

 

If only they had made their real argument instead: "We don't want anyone else to have what we have, no matter what they pay for it, because having these unobtainables makes us feel special and superior." A petty argument to be sure, but at least an honest one that may have been more effective.

 

Alas, we tried. Thankfully Bioware knows better, as they demonstrated in bringing back Shae, Nico, and all the other promotional rewards that were exclusive for a time.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Drenovade

[Sareeph]

Completely disingenuous and off-point.

 

We didn't call out your understanding of Eric's request. We called out your understanding of the original HK promotion as presented (i.e., the plain meaning of the text) and your understanding (or lack thereof) of the EULA.

 

Two completely and entirely different things. Your shell game failed. Classic, yet poorly executed deflection. We accuse you of A and you have no defense. So you switch to -- they accused me of B and I can prove that's idiotic.

 

Meesa not gonna fall for that. We never accused you of B -- in this case Eric asking only for positive feedback.

 

Dasty

 

Please show me where Eric asked for you or anyone to debate/argue/debunk/accuse anyone of anything that posted views dissimilar from popular or hopeful views. He didn't. Below is what he did say.

 

This conversation is certainly timely as it is a topic we have been revisiting internally as well. We have been actively talking about how, when, and if it would be possible to get make the HK chapter available again in some form. Whether that is a sub reward, sold on the market, etc.

 

Here is the thing we are trying to be sensitive to. Individuals who have it right now subbed for a number of months to get it and so if/when we bring it back, we need to make sure that we do it in a way that is fair to what they went through to get it. Ex: if it was a sub reward it would likely require multiple months of sub, or, if it was in the market it would be sold for a premium.

 

There is a lot of sensitivity on both sides. We agree that we would love to have a way for players who don't have it to get it (since it is story content, afterall). But it has to be done in a way that is fair to those who already have it. Let us know your thoughts (for, or against) and I can make sure all of your feedback is captured in our on-going discussion.

 

As a note I won't likely have an update on this in the short-tem, but as soon as I have any details I will pass them on.

 

-eric

 

 

He asked for feedback to enhance their discussions. Not name calling nor accusatory confrontations from forum lawyers.

 

 

PS: As I mentioned earlier, text was not the only format for this promotion.

[TrixxieTriss]

This thread sure is being read a lot. Nearly 20,000 hits.

 

I do wonder how many are reading for actual topic that is supposed to be discussed or how many are reading the continued flame war between a small number or people who disagree with each other?

 

As someone has just pointed out. Eric asked for feed back. Not a flame war to debunk other people’s point of views on wether they should or shouldn’t offer the chapter and companions.

 

Some people are against the idea and have said why and there feed back was honest.

 

Some people are for the idea and have said why and there feed back was also honest.

 

Then there are a very small few who feel they need to continue to pick that feed back apart and that’s not honest feed back or what Eric asked for. They are arguing for arguments sake or just want to make sure only their position is Centre Stage and everyone else’s doesn’t matter.

 

Bioware have more than enough feed back from both sides. This continuation of flaming and arguing and I dare say insults or trolling or baiting that is being hidden in the way it’s presented is not helping anyone.

 

It would be good if Eric could revisit this thread and tell us they’ve collected all the relevant feed back and then Lock the thread to prevent this continued flaming and arguing.

Edited May 30, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Drenovade]

This thread sure is being read a lot. Nearly 20,000 hits.

 

I do wonder how many are reading for actual topic that is supposed to be discussed or how many are reading the continued flame war between a small number or people who disagree with each other?

 

As someone has just pointed out. Eric asked for feed back. Not a flame war to debunk other people’s point of views on wether they should or shouldn’t offer the chapter and companions.

 

Some people are against the idea and have said why and there feed back was honest.

 

Some people are for the idea and have said why and there feed back was also honest.

 

Then there are a very small few who feel they need to continue to pick that feed back apart and that’s not honest feed back or what Eric asked for. They are arguing for arguments sake or just want to make sure only their position is Centre Stage and everyone else’s doesn’t matter.

 

Bioware have more than enough feed back from both sides. This continuation of flaming and arguing and I dare say insults or trolling or baiting that is being hidden in the way it’s presented is not helping anyone.

 

It would be good if Eric could revisit this thread and tell us they’ve collected all the relevant feed back and then Lock the thread to prevent this continued flaming and arguing.

 

Honestly, you're right. 80% of this thread has just been the same 20 people arguing with each other, including myself. Compared to the thousands of other players this would affect, the opinions of 20 or so people are not incredibly significant, at least not to the extent that we've been posting them.

 

I guess I'm just afraid that some reader, whether a player or a dev, might be deceived by any of a number of disingenuous and outrageous statements that have been made(not all the feedback was sincere after all), and so I end up taking the bait to debunk them, and dive right back into the flames. I should know better though, and to that end, I think I'll bow out for real this time.

 

Thanks for being a voice of reason, Triss.

[Jdast]

Honestly, you're right. 80% of this thread has just been the same 20 people arguing with each other, including myself. Compared to the thousands of other players this would affect, the opinions of 20 or so people are not incredibly significant, at least not to the extent that we've been posting them.

 

I guess I'm just afraid that some reader, whether a player or a dev, might be deceived by any of a number of disingenuous and outrageous statements that have been made(not all the feedback was sincere after all), and so I end up taking the bait to debunk them, and dive right back into the flames. I should know better though, and to that end, I think I'll bow out for real this time.

 

Thanks for being a voice of reason, Triss.

 

Great post. I (mostly) agree and will follow suit.

 

To others, though (that includes you, Trixxie, hence, I will dissent on you being the voice of reason part), I would like to emphasize, that the so-called 'forum lawyering' and 'nitpicking' was not for the sake of forum PvP as some would have it. I viewed (and still do) it as central to the debate -- not some peripheral, esoteric, tangent. Words matter. So, with respect, that criticism rolls right off my back and we can just agree to disagree.

 

And I never once said or even implied that Eric wanted only one type of feedback -- quite the opposite. But we have forum mods for a reason -- so I'll leave it to them to decide.

 

Dasty

Edited May 30, 2019 by Jdast

[Keta]

This thread sure is being read a lot. Nearly 20,000 hits.

 

I do wonder how many are reading for actual topic that is supposed to be discussed or how many are reading the continued flame war between a small number or people who disagree with each other?

 

 

Oh I'm definitely here for the flame war. I said my piece about 60 pages ago (I qualified for the chapter at the time it came out and I no longer care what they do with it 3 years later). No, watching folks argue with each other is where all the action is.

 

Make me miss the real flame thrower on my BH.

[Nemmar]

I realized recently that i actually have this companion.

 

From my pov, i don't mind at all that this stuff gets put on the CM to purchase. I didn't have to pay CC's for it, so i don't feel bad about it. But, i did miss the mandalorian woman companion and maybe others. I would like to see them all up there on the CM so i could get the ones i missed.

[Jozandra]

If other players want access to the class stories, they should have to pay $210 just like I had to, or a $60 down payment and 10 months of subbing. It's only fair after all.

 

What's that? You mean I'm not entitled to make such a demand? It sounds absurd and unreasonable?

 

What a bunch of bunk!

 

No, you did not pay $210 for HK-55 and the bonus chapter. First, you are conveniently forgetting the 500cc you got each month as a sub. Second, you are also forgetting to adjust the price for your premium game time that you played during those months. Yes, you were rewarded for your financial loyalty, but ultimately, the incessant need for keeping this amongst the "elite" demonstrates how pitifully insecure certain people are.

 

If the original promotion said those bonuses would never be available to other players in the future then that would certainly call into question how trustworthy this company is with regards to its word. Nevertheless, it is important to remember that this is just a game and that as owners of this game's content, they are the ones who are really entitled to make changes to content and promotional material if they see it as financially favorable to make those items available again. That is simply their prerogative.

 

To the developers and anyone in the position to decide if this will be made available again, please know that I have no problem maintaining a subscription if the bonus content required similar sub requirements. On the other hand, should you choose to sell the HK-55 w/bonus chapter for a one time fee of more than 2000cc, please know that it would fail to inspire me to spend extra cash for it, and loss of incentive to maintain my sub would end up leaving the door open to the idea of taking breaks from this game.

[Jdast]

What a bunch of bunk!

 

No, you did not pay $210 for HK-55 and the bonus chapter. First, you are conveniently forgetting the 500cc you got each month as a sub. Second, you are also forgetting to adjust the price for your premium game time that you played during those months. Yes, you were rewarded for your financial loyalty, but ultimately, the incessant need for keeping this amongst the "elite" demonstrates how pitifully insecure certain people are.

 

If the original promotion said those bonuses would never be available to other players in the future then that would certainly call into question how trustworthy this company is with regards to its word. Nevertheless, it is important to remember that this is just a game and that as owners of this game's content, they are the ones who are really entitled to make changes to content and promotional material if they see it as financially favorable to make those items available again. That is simply their prerogative.

 

To the developers and anyone in the position to decide if this will be made available again, please know that I have no problem maintaining a subscription if the bonus content required similar sub requirements. On the other hand, should you choose to sell the HK-55 w/bonus chapter for a one time fee of more than 2000cc, please know that it would fail to inspire me to spend extra cash for it, and loss of incentive to maintain my sub would end up leaving the door open to the idea of taking breaks from this game.

 

In this case, I will retract my 'bowing out' post and I think I will be forgiven...

 

My dear Jozandra,

 

The deliciously delightful, and delectably deceptive Drenovade wrote that post in the spirit of parody. You two are on the same page.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Dastardly Dasty

Edited May 30, 2019 by Jdast

[okamikun]

UP!

 

Still no news on this case? conclusion ? ... I think everything was said, an additional opinion would be that to rehashing...

[juliushorst]

If anything new comes up it will probably be in the patch notes and\or a separate announcement. No need to necro

[Damask_Rose]

UP!

 

Still no news on this case? conclusion ? ... I think everything was said, an additional opinion would be that to rehashing...

 

If you poke around on Reddit you will find some illicit information on this subject. Now similar illicit information has been found before, but this looks more likely given the devs actually asking for feedback on the subject.

[ceryxp]

UP!

 

Still no news on this case? conclusion ? ... I think everything was said, an additional opinion would be that to rehashing...

 

You mean Eric specifically saying during the last stream that they were working on a way to bring back HK-55 and Shroud of Memory doesn't count as news?