Let's Discuss Ranked PvP Ideas...

[Banderal]

Well, it's late in this thread, but I have a new idea... or at least a spin on an old idea.

 

This comes from playing regs after playing ranked, and still finding it really frustrating that I can't bring myself to just ignore reg's objectives, and work on my "ranked play". So I go into an AHG match, for example, thinking "oh good, I'll get to work on my fighting and escaping", and instead I notice that my team has left a mara to solo guard our pylon, so I go replace her ('cause I play a shadow). Then I spend most of the match doing nothing... again.

 

How about a "ranked staging ground queue", or call it a "minor leagues" ranked? This would be a queue for only arenas, just like solo ranked. Uses all the same match making rules as SR (whatever those might turn out to be or get changed to). Figures your ELO (or whatever rating we end up with) the same way. The difference in purpose is that it's meant to prepare us (or let us practice) for "real ranked", so in fact, even us really bads are EXPECTED to be there.

 

Yes, it would split the queues (maybe arenas can be removed from the reg queue, or leave arenas also in the reg queue, I don't really care). I know the standard argument of "the population is not high enough to support split queues" - but I have two things to type about this. 1. I just looked up how many characters are listed in just the "shadow/sin" leaderboards that have 10 wins or more. That was my threshold for assuming they at least have some interest in playing ranked. There are about 400. Assuming (yes, I know what "assuming" makes out of you and me) similar numbers for the other 7 categories, that's 400*8 = 3200 characters spread over the 5(?) servers (granted, I guess "we" think most are on SS or SF - I didn't check that). Also, 2. All you top ranked players want us "mediocre" folks out of the queue anyway.

 

So once we have the minor-league ranked queue it can add 2 more things. First, put ossus rep and gearing related stuff in the minor leagues queue. That way we can gear up without messing up the rank of top players. 2. if it's decided that there should be a gate to ranked, then make it that you have to have a certain rating in the minors before you can queue for the majors... however that rating ends up being determined.

 

How bad does that sound?

Edited April 1, 2019 by Banderal

[sharkfishman]

Well, it's late in this thread, but I have a new idea... or at least a spin on an old idea.

 

This comes from playing regs after playing ranked, and still finding it really frustrating that I can't bring myself to just ignore reg's objectives, and work on my "ranked play". So I go into an AHG match, for example, thinking "oh good, I'll get to work on my fighting and escaping", and instead I notice that my team has left a mara to solo guard our pylon, so I go replace her ('cause I play a shadow). Then I spend most of the match doing nothing... again.

 

How about a "ranked staging ground queue", or call it a "minor leagues" ranked? This would be a queue for only arenas, just like solo ranked. Uses all the same match making rules as SR (whatever those might turn out to be or get changed to). Figures your ELO (or whatever rating we end up with) the same way. The difference in purpose is that it's meant to prepare us (or let us practice) for "real ranked", so in fact, even us really bads are EXPECTED to be there.

 

Yes, it would split the queues (maybe arenas can be removed from the reg queue, or leave arenas also in the reg queue, I don't really care). I know the standard argument of "the population is not high enough to support split queues" - but I have two things to type about this. 1. I just looked up how many characters are listed in just the "shadow/sin" leaderboards that have 10 wins or more. That was my threshold for assuming they at least have some interest in playing ranked. There are about 400. Assuming (yes, I know what "assuming" makes out of you and me) similar numbers for the other 7 categories, that's 400*8 = 3200 characters spread over the 5(?) servers (granted, I guess "we" think most are on SS or SF - I didn't check that). Also, 2. All you top ranked players want us "mediocre" folks out of the queue anyway.

 

So once we have the minor-league ranked queue it can add 2 more things. First, put ossus rep and gearing related stuff in the minor leagues queue. That way we can gear up without messing up the rank of top players. 2. if it's decided that there should be a gate to ranked, then make it that you have to have a certain rating in the minors before you can queue for the majors... however that rating ends up being determined.

 

How bad does that sound?

 

I like it.

[TrixxieTriss]

Well, it's late in this thread, but I have a new idea... or at least a spin on an old idea.

 

This comes from playing regs after playing ranked, and still finding it really frustrating that I can't bring myself to just ignore reg's objectives, and work on my "ranked play". So I go into an AHG match, for example, thinking "oh good, I'll get to work on my fighting and escaping", and instead I notice that my team has left a mara to solo guard our pylon, so I go replace her ('cause I play a shadow). Then I spend most of the match doing nothing... again.

 

How about a "ranked staging ground queue", or call it a "minor leagues" ranked? This would be a queue for only arenas, just like solo ranked. Uses all the same match making rules as SR (whatever those might turn out to be or get changed to). Figures your ELO (or whatever rating we end up with) the same way. The difference in purpose is that it's meant to prepare us (or let us practice) for "real ranked", so in fact, even us really bads are EXPECTED to be there.

 

Yes, it would split the queues (maybe arenas can be removed from the reg queue, or leave arenas also in the reg queue, I don't really care). I know the standard argument of "the population is not high enough to support split queues" - but I have two things to type about this. 1. I just looked up how many characters are listed in just the "shadow/sin" leaderboards that have 10 wins or more. That was my threshold for assuming they at least have some interest in playing ranked. There are about 400. Assuming (yes, I know what "assuming" makes out of you and me) similar numbers for the other 7 categories, that's 400*8 = 3200 characters spread over the 5(?) servers (granted, I guess "we" think most are on SS or SF - I didn't check that). Also, 2. All you top ranked players want us "mediocre" folks out of the queue anyway.

 

So once we have the minor-league ranked queue it can add 2 more things. First, put ossus rep and gearing related stuff in the minor leagues queue. That way we can gear up without messing up the rank of top players. 2. if it's decided that there should be a gate to ranked, then make it that you have to have a certain rating in the minors before you can queue for the majors... however that rating ends up being determined.

 

How bad does that sound?

 

Arena doesn’t pop in regs unless the queue numbers drop below “x” amount to for 8v8 matches. Removing it from the reg queue would just mean regs never pop outside of prime time. So that’s a big NO from me about removing it.

 

Splitting the numbers would stretch pop times for both queues and Bioware won’t do that because pop time over quality has always been their motto. It’s why regs is a disaster at the moment. They would rather it pop every 4 mins with poorly balanced teams, then it pop every 5 mins with better balanced teams.

 

We also don’t need to split the queues. We already have solo and team ranked queue. Why not just make the solo queue into what you are describing?

 

What I would like to see is a pure 8v8 combat map in the reg rotation.

One that is designed a bit like Correllia Square.

You would respawn “x” amount of times and there aren’t rounds.

No delayed respawn screen before you can re-enter.

It would still be a timed match and acid at the end.

The last team standing at the end wins or the team with the most kills. I’m still trying to work out the best way to decide the winner.

Edited April 2, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[fabsus]

i played ranked pvp in other games, with a way more competetive design, compared to swtor.

so when i started to play swtor, i really didn't care much about ratings at all. all i wanted, was

a nice fair match against equal or better teams.

 

the more pvp players and pvp guilds left the game, the unbearable ranked pvp became.

even good players started wintrading and cheating, by waiting for the end of the match,

behind the arena borders. the tone got rougher more and more.

 

and so it came the time for me, to stop playing ranked pvp, too.

i just don't need to share my spare time with a more and more toxic community.

you even could read in this subforums, that this tone is accepted.

 

also the actual ranked community had some chances to pick new players and recruit them

for ongoing matches. but here it seems to be more fun, to offend newbies and keep them away from q'ing, just to beg for q's a day later in general chats.

 

and as long as there is not timely moderation against wintrades, cheaters and toxic behavior,

you are just discussing about optimizations and not the population problem.

[Banderal]

Arena doesn’t pop in regs unless the queue numbers drop below “x” amount to for 8v8 matches. Removing it from the reg queue would just mean regs never pop outside of prime time. So that’s a big NO from me about removing it.

 

Oh right. I hadn't thought of that. Ok, arenas stay in regs too.

 

Splitting the numbers would stretch pop times for both queues and Bioware won’t do that because pop time over quality has always been their motto. It’s why regs is a disaster at the moment. They would rather it pop every 4 mins with poorly balanced teams, then it pop every 5 mins with better balanced teams.

 

Well, over in the 'pvp ideas stream' thread Mike posted a response which says...

 

I believe that certain adjustments could go a long way towards addressing the concerns that have been raised, but I want to be clear that as we look at adding additional rules and requirements for matchmaking, a byproduct of these proposed changes will almost certainly be an increase in average que times. In the video you all expressed some level of willingness to tolerate longer que times if the resulting matches felt more balanced, and I appreciate you acknowledging that probable trade-off.

 

So there is at least an indication of some willingness now to start favoring quality over quantity.

 

We also don’t need to split the queues. We already have solo and team ranked queue. Why not just make the solo queue into what you are describing?

 

Because of the opinion that seems to be pretty common that only "goods" should be in ranked at all, even solo. And my experience that (at least at the times I queue - sounds like it's the opposite for you I guess ) I hardly ever get arenas in regs, so it's not like I can (in good conscience) go into regs and practice for arenas.

 

Personally, I think solo queue was intended to be, by bioware originally, basically what I'm describing (except the mats/gear part). But since our "community" obviously thinks otherwise, I'm trying to adapt.

 

Yes, I agree it would slow down the "real" solo queue, but that seems to be what "real" ranked players want anyway. For the "minor league" queue, especially if gearing was tied to it, and without (hopefully) as much "rough opinions expressed in the heat of the moment" (we'll avoid that other word), I think it might actually get more participation and pop more often. Hmm, of course, people who really hate arenas I guess won't like that gear is still tied to arenas. (And here again, my *real* opinion is that gear should be available through any activity - at least that was one thing they got right with CXP. But anyway...)

 

What I would like to see is a pure 8v8 combat map in the reg rotation.

One that is designed a bit like Correllia Square.

You would respawn “x” amount of times and there aren’t rounds.

No delayed respawn screen before you can re-enter.

It would still be a timed match and acid at the end.

The last team standing at the end wins or the team with the most kills. I’m still trying to work out the best way to decide the winner.

 

I would like to see a map like that (or even without the limit on respawns), but OUTside of the normal regs queue. I would love to give the people who want a good deathmatch game their own spot to queue into, so they can stop coming into objective-based maps and turning those into deathmatch games.

 

Yes, more splitting of the queues I know. And yes, I'm coming at it from being able to play "prime time" when that won't have as much affect on pop times. Also, I've always been more willing to wait a LONG time (hour) to get a decent match, rather than have 3 or 4 crappy matches back to back. But, of course, that's just my one-person's opinion.

[TrixxieTriss]

Oh right. I hadn't thought of that. Ok, arenas stay in regs too.

 

Well, over in the 'pvp ideas stream' thread Mike posted a response which says...

 

So there is at least an indication of some willingness now to start favoring quality over quantity.

 

Because of the opinion that seems to be pretty common that only "goods" should be in ranked at all, even solo. And my experience that (at least at the times I queue - sounds like it's the opposite for you I guess ) I hardly ever get arenas in regs, so it's not like I can (in good conscience) go into regs and practice for arenas.

 

Personally, I think solo queue was intended to be, by bioware originally, basically what I'm describing (except the mats/gear part). But since our "community" obviously thinks otherwise, I'm trying to adapt.

 

Yes, I agree it would slow down the "real" solo queue, but that seems to be what "real" ranked players want anyway. For the "minor league" queue, especially if gearing was tied to it, and without (hopefully) as much "rough opinions expressed in the heat of the moment" (we'll avoid that other word), I think it might actually get more participation and pop more often. Hmm, of course, people who really hate arenas I guess won't like that gear is still tied to arenas. (And here again, my *real* opinion is that gear should be available through any activity - at least that was one thing they got right with CXP. But anyway...)

 

I would like to see a map like that (or even without the limit on respawns), but OUTside of the normal regs queue. I would love to give the people who want a good deathmatch game their own spot to queue into, so they can stop coming into objective-based maps and turning those into deathmatch games.

 

Yes, more splitting of the queues I know. And yes, I'm coming at it from being able to play "prime time" when that won't have as much affect on pop times. Also, I've always been more willing to wait a LONG time (hour) to get a decent match, rather than have 3 or 4 crappy matches back to back. But, of course, that's just my one-person's opinion.

 

What’s sad is most of our ideas and suggestions in this thread would have worked really well 5 years ago or even 3 years ago.

Now there aren’t enough people for radical changes to queues. But there is room for tweaking the existing queues for better quality matches. I think that’s what Mike meant by looking at quality vs pop times.

Easy tweaks are things like making matchmaking work better. Slowing down pops to get players of comparative skills or premades into the same match rotation without needing seperate queues.

You can slow down the pops by a minute or two to improve the quality of matches using the current queues. I think splitting the queues anymore will only reduce quality in regs and increase pop times more. There are so many flow on affects to consider around the idea. The risk vs reward when we have such a low population is just too high in my opinion.

It doesn’t mean your ideas aren’t good or creative, they are. It’s such a shame Bioware didn’t want to have discussions like this 5 years ago when there was a margin of error if it went wrong.

[Eveleria]

Two minor quality of life changes that Bioware could make right now and would have little effect on those legitimately trying to climb ladder:

 

1) Apply a "Deserter" debuff for quitting matches. Cannot re-queue until player has completeled X number of games in another form of PvP: think regs or GSF. Restricting the player so ruining other peoples' play time happens less frequently.

 

 

There is no need to punish other PvP players by forcing a quitter on them. That person is probably already in a bad mood and will just start griefing the regs (since there is no punishment).

Just ban them from queuing all pvp types for a certain time, I see no reason to allow them to face other players in any match after they let down their team.

[Kalarie]

Hey All,

 

...The goal of this new thread is to specifically focus on gathering ideas for potential systemic changes to Ranked PvP systems....

 

 

Mike,

 

I know the idea has been brought up a few times, but I've never seen BW specifically address it, and it feels like the community that really enjoys huttball is shrinking every day, but is the Huttball League idea even on the 'wall of crazy' anymore?

[Mantlers]

Hi Mike and Team,

 

Would it be possible to look into ways of revitalising team ranked queue again? Perhaps through reviewing the rewards? With a better matchmaking system such as many of the proposed ideas in this thread (and others), it may even be possible to encourage new teams to enter the competition without fear of getting rofl stomped.

 

Its a very enjoyable aspect of the game, for multiple reasons and imo, the most rewarding form of Ranked.

 

Thank you.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Mantlers

[bladech]

Hi Mike and Team,

 

Would it be possible to look into ways of revitalising team ranked queue again? Perhaps through reviewing the rewards? With a better matchmaking system such as many of the proposed ideas in this thread (and others), it may even be possible to encourage new teams to enter the competition without fear of getting rofl stomped.

 

Its a very enjoyable aspect of the game, for multiple reasons and imo, the most rewarding form of Ranked.

 

Thank you.

 

Team ranked changed into wintrading field where mostly everyone has 10-20 wintraded wins and a few fake looses but sitting on top spots. Well done devs, removing mats from tr totally killed it and made Wintraders Happy again.

[SushaBrancaleone]

ive talked with a few people about this and they all agreed it seemed a good idea so il share, sorry if it has been brought up already, if not:

 

- a spectator option in 4v4, and a 'become' spectator mode (with some minor reward) to allow unequal matches (4v3) to go 3v3 etc.

- a huttball championship! or ranked huttball

[Thaladan]

i'll be really interested by a hutball league, but for this bioware must fixes all bugs and glithes, which are here for years...so i really doubt it.

 

for ranked sorry but after 12 seasons i think it's time to stop this terrible format and propose another.

[Seterade]

I dont know if Im staying but Im considering wait and see with 6.0.

 

as you devs have shown an interest in change I will repost an older suggestion box post I made when I was more passionate about this game... and thought the devs were as well.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=929550&highlight=ranked

 

With your renewed attempted to make ranked viable for all players an a real commonly played endgame content I wanted to suggest a change, that I believe will end ranked toxicity, boost ranked player numbers/queues, provide rewards for those who invest, end the tantrums for rewards not being good enough, ect ect.

 

The change I purpose is relatively simple. Remove Elo as the deciding factor in ranked rewards and implant a reputation system. "Elo" will (in this idea) become a temporary reputation good for 6 months, at the end of six months the Elo will locked till the season reset, in which the Elo will reset to zero. Players with such an such Elo will be able to buy hero elo item, other legendary elo items.

 

I believe this is what the ranked system needs now that you are trying to make it an all players thing. Take away the competition, and make fun an engaging end game content. The Elo system seems to be the number one thing dragging it down an through the mud.

 

 

Added Idea: make people with higher rep paired with similar rep. you keep the skill with skill but its no longer unbalanced where all the less skilled fight the more skilled. it becomes a time invested match up, which I believe will allow people who might not have all the time in the world to play to still have a chance to not get all the less skilled players, also creating an experienced 1+. reward for time invested, but it wont make all your team skilled, it will just make them more familar. practice can make perfect. I also think this might be a relatively small change allowing most of the code to maybe stay intact.