Gathering Feedback

[thejediscavenger]

Sometimes no communication is a good thing, other times it's bad. At times like this, we have been shown that they are listening and do care, but I will say in reply to the OP, after MEA dropped the DLC and no one would tell us anything and kept stringing us along, many trusts were broken that day and some have never forgotten. Do not do this here please! If things are being addressed, just stop in here and let us know you're still around and working on things. This is not meant to be every day. I know how it is. I was in touch with many devs during MEA. I know what can be said, and what can't, but fans want to know they are placing their money on something that's stable and will be worth putting more money down on in the future. That's how you profit. Silence loses fans and money and not even the market will help if players walk away because they feel abandoned. SWTOR could be thriving right now with all the SW hype lately, but it's 2019 and this game needs to go through some changes to attract new and bring back the older fans.

 

I remember in 2011 when I sat down and beta tested this game. Me and bunch of others insisted it be held back and all major bugs fixed, but no, we were not heard and the game was a mess when it came out. That will only continue to happen if advice is ignored by those who can truly help make things better. Remember that. Your fans care or they wouldn't be here still, hoping to be heard finally. They are owed something for this many years of waiting and keeping the faith.

 

As for some of the other comments here, while I do understand your stress, being rude or demanding will not help. Or letting your anger at EA affect your feelings. Another thing I can't blame you for, but still. Be kind. Be patient (yes it's a horrible word after so many years of silence) and remember that it takes time to fix things and keep things updated and that can create more issues if rushed. I saw a lot of frustrated people trying to do all they could for MEA and were generally affected by the attacks from fans, and they are people with feelings too and are at least trying to make things better, so give them a chance. Walk away if by the end of the year this was all for nothing, but let's see if things are actually going to change for the better. I have hope. I always have hope, but this time I really feel things are going to be better for SWTOR and its community.

 

In the end, you catch more flies with honey. That goes to both devs and people who have been aggressive.

 

I hope my advice/suggestions help.

Edited March 24, 2019 by thejediscavenger

[Lhancelot]

In the end, you catch more flies with honey. That goes to both devs and people who have been aggressive.

 

I agree with this premise, too.

 

I think many players are just going through a lot of different emotions though, and are at different stages of grief, anger, disappointment, hopefulness.

 

One person might already be out the anger stage and more into a calmer, reflective mood regarding SWTOR and it's present state, and many others feel differently/react differently.

[thejediscavenger]

I agree with this premise, too.

 

I think many players are just going through a lot of different emotions though, and are at different stages of grief, anger, disappointment, hopefulness.

 

One person might already be out the anger stage and more into a calmer, reflective mood regarding SWTOR and it's present state, and many others feel differently/react differently.

 

Oh yes and I understand completely. I felt that way too for sometime and only stopped lurking here when I was calmer, but if they end up having to go through pages of stuff that's just anger and attacks, it won't help. This thread is very much subdued compared to what I've seen elsewhere, but if it escalated, it'll just delay things. No matter how upset someone is, if they can't do something, it won't just happen just because of that person's anger. What they can do is say "Hey we're listening and though we can't do it yet, it will happen" and then actually got through with it to prove they meant it. If they ignore people for too long and let things fester, then they will gain less feedback and more vitriol no matter how much people try to stay calm. At that point I wouldn't blame them. However some people should take note they have been posting in other threads and have not abandoned the forums.

 

What it comes down to is cooperation. Both sides need to work together to make things happen if they truly care about SWTOR.

[OlBuzzard]

I agree with this premise, too.

 

I think many players are just going through a lot of different emotions though, and are at different stages of grief, anger, disappointment, hopefulness.

 

One person might already be out the anger stage and more into a calmer, reflective mood regarding SWTOR and it's present state, and many others feel differently/react differently.

 

I agree with this to a point. Unfortunately as the old saying goes the squeeky wheel gets the grease. I wish it were not true but all to often it seems as though until a situation gets to a boiling point that nothing is done about a particular problem.

That said: sometimes matters that are often "discussed" (argued) are simply from differing points of view as to how the game should be played. One only has to look at the suggestion box, for example, to see that few of the suggestions actually make it to the game. Another point to consider is that few of the suggestions are really matters that need to be put into the game.

 

I only wish that points of contested discussions could be focused better. Some points are genuinely worth not only reviewing but making changes.

I also believe that blatantly bashing each other usually acomplishes even less and less.

I'm still hoping that a "guided" discussion of major topics can be initialized, step by step in a more structured manner , topic by topic, to look at specifics that "should" generate more affective conclusions.

 

I'd almost be willing to bet that some will not be satisfied regardless of what conclusions are arrived at or regardless of how many members of the development team respond.

 

Yes, there is always room for improvement. Bug squashing is one of the best places to start. No MMO is beyond having them... and no MMO can ignore them.

 

At any rate. I do agree that we all let off some steam from time to time. Hopefully somewhere in this some sort of sound resolutions can be reached that will make this a better game/community.

[Syroe]

So here's an observation you didn't ask for in regard to your whole feedback process that I've actually been here for and observed in all it's depressing stages. There will be quite a bit of text, conjecture/ assumptions on my part will be underlined, normal text is what can be easily verified.

 

The decision was made to introduce a new tier of gear for the MM Gods of the Machine Operation. The decision was also made not to scale up any of the pre-existing PVE content in the game making the older Flashpoints,Uprisings(I assume people play those.) and operations feel like even more of a cakewalk.

 

Now, the only issue the dev team apparently found with this brilliant new plan(*chuckle*) was that people would burn through the dailies too fast and gain the BiS gear before the devs could provide the player base with new and exciting content.

At which point the floor was opened for members of the team to give suggestions on how the process could be slowed down. After an uncomfortable period of pure silence, I like to think Danny the Intern that had been out getting coffee for everyone popped into the room and said "Hey, why don't we lock the mods to a specific gear slot, thus limiting their ability to customize the gear." And since it was Friday and close to going home time they all said, sure why not and went home.

 

Fast-forward to 5.10 going live on the PTS and the first paying beta-tester noticing the new feature/bug(always a coin toss with you guys, isn't it?) and reporting it. And then another person reported it and the fact that armor sets were not stacking correctly(I'm sure your decision to slot-lock mods was in no way shape or form the reason why that particular thing got bugged, nossir, completely unrelated issues with unlucky timing.). The silence to the waves of questions/complaints/rants/threats was deafening. People didn't know if it was working as intended or a bug.

 

To add to the sense of mystery you release update 5.10 with the bugs as they were in the PTS build(in the process giving yourself even more work as fixing the set-bonus bug became much harder as per Eric's posts on the matter). You also decide to give in to your charitable sides and throw the community a bone in the form of a short and sweet answer "slot-locking working as intended, thank your for the feedback, you can clearly see how much we value and appreciate it, keep it coming so we can keep wiping our awes with it".

 

That particular answer provided just the right amount of closure and satisfaction to the player-base and saw the end of this unpleasant business. Just kidding, people are still very much upset about it. Fortunately for you they've taken to flaming each other rather than keep up the pressure for answers on this particular nugget of game-design you've dropped on us.

 

Enter the final word on this issue: Another slightly longer answer along the lines of "Thank you for the feedback, there will be no new changes to the gear at the current time, but you can look forward to more meaningful conversations about gear in the coming weeks"

 

Except it wasn't the final word. The final word came during an interview on a stream here around the 27:50 mark, the interviewer asks about the slot-locking. Good to know that it only took 5 months for a dev to come out and say "That was a mistake, we're not going to do it again, sorry."

 

With the whole thing laid out in a relatively ordered fashion can the dev team or community manager or Danny the Intern see how this type of non-communication communication, stone-walling and opaqueness on matters that are important to the players who stuck with this game for so long can make people feel dejected, disappointed and just plain sad(I guess)?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Syroe
forgot my feedback

[KendraP]

snip

 

I've been raising these issues since literally before they made it off pts. They obviously don't care, and those of us who do are mostly gone or something, because seemingly disagreeing with the "need" for NiM gear makes me want everything just handed to me.

[OlBuzzard]

@SYROE:

I agree somewhat about all of the old flash points. Even many of the "StarFortress" 2+ player need to be adjusted because not too many people are available to play them any more.

I was gone for well over a year. Coming back I have a LOT of catch-up work to do. Just a thought: perhaps if we were able to run them solo with our choice of two or three companions to complete them. As it stands now there are several missions we have to take .. but will be deathly slow getting them done in KotFE. I don't mind the catching up as long as we can find a more effecient way to get there!

 

It's this sort of "house cleaning" so to speak that would definately make the game better. IMHO it should also provide a means to facilitate bringing multiple alternate toons up to speed without countless hours of running exactly the same mission over, and over, and over, and over and over, and over and......... ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

Truthfully I'm looking forward to a lot of new contient.

[cibacrome]

So here's an observation you didn't ask for in regard to your whole feedback process that I've actually been here for and observed in all it's depressing stages....

 

SNIPPEROONEY...

 

...With the whole thing laid out in a relatively ordered fashion can the dev team or community manager or Danny the Intern see how this type of non-communication communication, stone-walling and opaqueness on matters that are important to the players who stuck with this game for so long can make people feel dejected, disappointed and just plain sad(I guess)?

 

Brilliant summary, if this were reddit you'd have my gold! Well, at least I'd consider it...

 

But you you may not have heard the good news yet: Danny the Intern is now Danny the Executive Producer Bioware Austin, promoted recently by Peter Principle, EA Executive Upper Middle Management Resource Director.

[aerockyul]

I've enjoyed the level of communication lately--even little bits here and there if not substantive. But we're going on 3 days now with nothing gold. These are the moments people get on edge and think "here we go again with the communication blackout" after the initial shine wears off, and the usual suspects gloat about how right they were about how you never meant to follow through as before.

Let's not this time.

What other bugs are you guys tackling/trying to tackle, like the Vector eye fix that is incoming?

Any hints or teases for the cantina thing coming up?

Anything?

[OlBuzzard]

I know that there are a few older bugs around that need attention. For example: Reclamied Tresure had one that showed up after completeing about 2/3 of the mission. In fact, come to think of it, when ai left well over a year or two ago it was still out there. And... come to think of it... I have severl alts that still need to complete that one.

[JattaGin]

I've enjoyed the level of communication lately--even little bits here and there if not substantive. But we're going on 3 days now with nothing gold. These are the moments people get on edge and think "here we go again with the communication blackout" after the initial shine wears off, and the usual suspects gloat about how right they were about how you never meant to follow through as before.

 

My prediction was that the communication lasts until the end of March and then we will be back to normal.

 

To quote Sheldon Cooper: "I have informed you thusly."

[KendraP]

My prediction was that the communication lasts until the end of March and then we will be back to normal.

 

To quote Sheldon Cooper: "I have informed you thusly."

 

Yeah, again, why be surprised at sudden silence with swtor?

[TUXs]

Yeah, again, why be surprised at sudden silence with swtor?

No surprise...not even disappointed...it's expected.

[GrimTheGlutt]

I guess thats the feedback on our feedback for the feedback.

[OlBuzzard]

Keep in mind that if they have already started recording voice overs... it's a pretty good bet that most (if not all) of the major decisions that will be loaded in 6.0 are already done! It takes MONTHS to put an idea in game. There are SEVERAL steps in getting an idea from concept to completion. There really is a tremendous amout of work envolved.

 

Sooooo ... hopefully some of the ideas we're discussing, trying to sort out both good and bad ideas really are making a difference. Enough so that those ideas, discussions are take to heart.

 

Unfortunately one of the things that works against someone like me is a nasty word call demographics. For me the group I fall in means that very little of what I have to say really means a whole lot to anyone... especially in any MMO. But I have to try!

[OlBuzzard]

I guess thats the feedback on our feedback for the feedback.

 

ROFL !!

(man I wish they had that animated emote in here !!! )

[thejediscavenger]

Keep in mind that if they have already started recording voice overs... it's a pretty good bet that most (if not all) of the major decisions that will be loaded in 6.0 are already done! It takes MONTHS to put an idea in game. There are SEVERAL steps in getting an idea from concept to completion. There really is a tremendous amout of work envolved.

 

Sooooo ... hopefully some of the ideas we're discussing, trying to sort out both good and bad ideas really are making a difference. Enough so that those ideas, discussions are take to heart.

 

Unfortunately one of the things that works against someone like me is a nasty word call demographics. For me the group I fall in means that very little of what I have to say really means a whole lot to anyone... especially in any MMO. But I have to try!

 

Exactly. Also they are getting ready for the new update, SWC and they are working with the voice actors for SWTOR right now as you said. Silence is a good thing.

Edited April 2, 2019 by thejediscavenger

[DarthSpuds]

Silence is a good thing.

 

In maintaining good customer relations (and good is the very least you should aim for in such) silence is NEVER a good thing.

 

Customers like to feel valued, not only for their money but also for their feedback.

 

I'd bet you can't find 10 people who think their feedback on this game has been even seriously looked at, much less "valued", by Bioware.

 

Because the glaringly obvious fact is Bioware doesn't give a damn what we think.

 

 

All The Best

[KendraP]

In maintaining good customer relations (and good is the very least you should aim for in such) silence is NEVER a good thing.

 

Customers like to feel valued, not only for their money but also for their feedback.

 

I'd bet you can't find 10 people who think their feedback on this game has been even seriously looked at, much less "valued", by Bioware.

 

Because the glaringly obvious fact is Bioware doesn't give a damn what we think.

 

 

All The Best

 

What, you mean, as a long time subscribing customer who has stuck with SWTOR through pretty much everything, I might want to feel listened to and valued?

[OlBuzzard]

What, you mean, as a long time subscribing customer who has stuck with SWTOR through pretty much everything, I might want to feel listened to and valued?

 

I think that most of us would appreciate a kind word of encouragement from SWTOR. The best way to show appreciation and encouragement is through customer service and a few perks along the way.

I know that we can't get everything we want. That's simply not possible in any business. BUT ... I've seen lately where all of us could use a kind word .... from time to time!

[KendraP]

I am going to do something unusual... Musco, I want to compliment you and Mr. Steed on both announcing the livestream yesterday, and for the prompt explanation as to why it couldn't happen. I hope you all got your electricity back with no lasting issues.

 

Now, if only addressing other issues were so simple.

[Syroe]

Exactly. Also they are getting ready for the new update, SWC and they are working with the voice actors for SWTOR right now as you said. Silence is a good thing.

 

It's very rarely a good thing. Even if there was a measure of trust between the playerbase and the devs(which the devs have managed to erode to the point where very little of what they promise is actually taken seriously anymore), keeping quiet usually results in people's imaginations running wild, frustrations building up followed by an explosion of (somewhat) warranted nastiness. Which further erodes the player-dev relationship. See where I'm going with this?

 

Also, BW(I'm sure other studios do this, too) seems to follow a really weird pattern of asking for feedback after the bulk of the decisions have been made. Which, again, creates friction and leaves the devs feeling attacked by the players and the players feeling like they're not being listened to.

 

What I would like them to do, when asking for feedback, is set some parameters, so that people can manage their own expectations and, more importantly, give usable suggestions. For example(since I'm still waiting for that vaunted "conversation" they'll be having with the plebs about gearing in the future):

 

Hey guys! We'd like to get your feedback on gearing in future updates. Before I start though,let me lay out the decisions that we've already made and are unwilling/unable to alter:

-Gear will no longer have modification slots

-All items are now bound to legacy

These are the things that are definitely happening. What we'd like you to tell us is:

-Do you want augments to be kept? Expanded on? If so, how?

-What kind of stat combinations would you like to see on the various rarities of gear?

 

That way, you manage people's expectations, you give them an idea of what they can expect and,as a bonus, you might actually mean it when you post "Thanks for the feedback! This has been really helpful!" in a thread. Sometimes, clearly there will still be unusable feedback, bat-dropping crazy ideas and people that straight out ignore said parameters. But it would help the ones that want to help...

[NeoBlakkrstal]

How to improve:

 

Aknowledge issues that keep coming up regulary, for example: mods locked in slots, solo player worries of new stuff requiring group play, companion issues. If many people are mad about something, make a post to thread and tell you are reading the complaints even you don't have answer yet. For example: "Hey, reading this and will tell more info as soon as i can"

 

And get answer as soon as possible for the ones that keep popping up.

For example: "Hey, we will change in future path these locked mods/Hey, we are not going to change this because of the reason X."

"Hey, we will be adding ways for solo players to get these things X in some point/Hey, we will not change how it is, because or the reason Y."

 

And please, don't simply force feed us "because that's the way it is" as the reason that it isn't going to change. That isn't a reason, it's a true "hose you" response.