Why is "server community" used as an argument against cross-server LFD?

[Felioats]

Forget that, why is Bioware using it as an argument against a same-server LFG tool?

[krisslanza]

In response to the topic title.

 

Why is "WoW did it" used as an argument for cross-server LFD?

[OSUNightfall]

In response to the topic title.

 

Why is "WoW did it" used as an argument for cross-server LFD?

 

It's not, generally, but people against it tend to ignore that. There are many legitimate reasons to like a LFD tool, and (not counting a cross-server implementation) I've yet to hear a single cogent argument against it.

[Khoranth]

I'm not sure why a lot of forum posters seem to think that it's important to foster a sense of "server community". What's up with that? I've played in MMO's a long time and it was never important in the least. I hope Bioware does a cross-server LFD tool. I get really tired of having to spam trade chat and then have to spend a lot of time traveling to the instance. The LFD would simply make it easier.

 

Spamming trade chat with "lfg/lfm for <instance name here> is just simply annoying. And even though I've done most of the instances this way, I don't have any more friends than I had before I started. So I never bought into the "fostering server community" as a valid argument against a cross-server LFD tool. To those of you that don't want it, you don't have to use it. But just because you don't want to use it doesn't mean that the rest of us shouldn't.

 

/end of rant

 

So you don't care about seeing trash and filth all day long in trade chat, general chat, any LFD group you join?

 

Some of us don't like that sick stuff and want to see it minimized in game.

 

If you actually have to find people to group with, you will hopefully be less likely to be a nasty mouthed filthy, hateful person in game. Maybe you will even treat others with respect.

[Skerry]

people in wow and any other mmo were complete jerk offs long before cross server anything in wwow.

 

 

ther ewere ninjas and ******es an dpeople that cba to cc the moon or dps the skull, tanks that were geared up and specced for dps and rolled on every single plate adn mail and leather drop with phys stats, epopel who went afk without notice mid pull for 15 minutes knowing it woudl take longer to replace them than it would be to wait for them.

 

and people bad mouthed each other in general on the server for any reason they felt liek this week and tried to harass each other off servers for wpvp on pvp servers adn claim ownership of server forums and welcome zerg guild to eat up everyone who wanted to raid and kill the local guilds and so on,.

 

there was no magical uotpia of unicorns and rainbows pre cross server lfd or pre addons or pre dps meters or pre gs or pre anything.

 

mmo's/the internet/gaming/irl has always been like this for ever and ever sinc ebefore you and i were even born.

 

 

Half true; the point is - prior, if people were like that, word got around. EQ was famous for it's blacklists. You ***** out enough and eventually you find that you aren't getting much done as nobody is bothering with you - you have made a name for yourself. So yes, they still existed - but they could actually be dealt with and had consequences.

 

XServer LFD, Server Transfers, Race, Name, Sex changes - ALL became tools to allow the tools to be so, at whim - with ZERO consequences, ZERO danger, and ZERO fallout.

[Orvish]

I wish when these threads came up there was less focus on the negatives and more focus on the positives.

 

I mean I don't know about you guys, but a server community for me is far less about negative reputations and far more about GREAT reputations.

 

I'd love to have the "family feeling" of server communities in this game. Similar to what we had in SWG and in WoW as well (in the vanilla and tbc era). I want my server to be the bar where everyone knows my name and all that jazz.

 

Made me think of this.

[OSUNightfall]

Half true; the point is - prior, if people were like that, word got around. EQ was famous for it's blacklists. You ***** out enough and eventually you find that you aren't getting much done as nobody is bothering with you - you have made a name for yourself. So yes, they still existed - but they could actually be dealt with and had consequences.

 

XServer LFD, Server Transfers, Race, Name, Sex changes - ALL became tools to allow the tools to be so, at whim - with ZERO consequences, ZERO danger, and ZERO fallout.

 

For this reason I would be extremely pleased if everyone could always see your legacy name. Account-wide identifiers are gold when it comes to weeding out the jerks.

[Tahana]

I know less then 5 people on my server who are NOT in my guild.

 

So the whole "community" thing means very little to me.

 

So what your saying is you lack interpersonal skills..

[Feynrod]

It's not like cross-server LFD didn't have any practical improvements for an average player. It did.

 

I'd like to see a single-server LFD, as well. No, it doesn't have to be cross-server.

 

I don't wanna be instantly teleported to an instance, though. That was just stupid of Blizz to enable it.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Feynrod

[ferroz]

Not only do I already have like 10 awesome players I've met through pugging on my friends list, I actually totally on accident hooked up with a friend from SWG that I hadn't spoken to in like 5 years from ending up in the same pug. That is amaaaaaazing.

A cross server group finder doesn't actually preclude that, if it's done right. In this day and age, server separation really should be an outdated concept.

[mangarrage]

I dont think most people have any issues with an LFD tool as long as it remains server based

 

Xserver simply fosters terrible behavior

[OSUNightfall]

It's not like cross-server LFD didn't have any practical improvements for an average player. It did.

 

I'd like to see a single-server LFD, as well. No, it doesn't have to be cross-server.

 

It did have improvements. I freely admit that it reduced queue times. But I feel the price was too high.

[ferroz]

So what your saying is you lack interpersonal skills..

That's kind of like saying that someone lacks interpersonal skills because they have 20 facebook friends instead of 500.

 

 

Perhaps the difference is that he doesn't feel the need to validate his existence by making "friends" with random people on the internet.

[Craoeli]

Funny that many say that LFG tools cause people not to talk in groups. I've rarely had a single person say much in any group/flash that I've done to date. Most I've heard is a quick compliment.

 

Actually, I prefer less talking in a group/flash. I'm joining with you to accomplish something, not sit and talk to you like you live next door to me.

 

Less talk, more killing!

[hardicon]

i will explain it to you then.

 

wow first came out in 2004, i played on the stormreaver server or something like that. there was a rogue on that server back then that got on a lot of pug groups. this rogue basically rolled on all loot even if it wasnt for his toon and he couldnt use it. his argument was he ran the dungeon and should get rewards also, and he could always sell the loot thus could use it.

 

well people started listing him on the forums and talking about him to their guildmates, eventually nobody would invite the guy to a dungeon and nobody would group with him so he had to reroll with a different name.

 

if dungeons are done on the same server the community can deal with that person on that server.

 

fast forward to today, wow implemented cross server dungeon finder, someone from some other server could get into the dungeon run and ninja loot everything and there was nothing we could do about it, cause that person would automatically be grouped with us in the future, the only thing you could do is kick that person. so blizzard developed tools to deal with that sure but eventually the community quit talking to each other and just started queing for dungeons. there was no reason at all to talk to other people on your server. most of us here want strong communities on the server we are on. i want people to know me and know that if i say i will make you something i wont rip you off, and vice versa.

 

cross server dungeons kill that part of the game because nobody care enough not to be a ******, odds are you wont see that guy again or if you do there is nothing you can do about him being a ******.

[OSUNightfall]

I dont think most people have any issues with an LFD tool as long as it remains server based

 

Xserver simply fosters terrible behavior

 

From what I can tell, most people against a single-server LFD are against it because WoW did it and for no other reason. They state that it hurts community, when actually the two aren't related. LFD isn't any less social than having to sit in fleet all day spamming for a group. All it means is you're rooted to one location, typing the same thing over and over into chat, rather than actually playing the game from any zone in the game, while simultaneously finding a group to do an instance with in the most efficient manner possible. As I said before, I've never heard a cogent, logical argument against a same-server LFD, and I don't expect to at this point. I think most people against it either don't really understand the underlying issues, or simply haven't thought it through.

[Blurble]

Because you become another faceless cog in the machine, free to be a complete ****** to other people. If you actually have to communicate with other human beings, rather then press a button, you become accountable for your actions. Because no one wants to play with a *******.

 

edit: I played vanilla wow, I knew a lot of people on the server, horde and alliance, we talked out of game, having to talk to people to form groups is good for meeting others. Fast forward to cata and I couldn't name another person on my server who isn't in my guild. I just sit in SW and click a button. Like most modern humans, I take the path of least resistance. And that path is a button on the bottom of my screen. Multiply that by 99% of the server and the community is dead.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Blurble

[ferroz]

Xserver simply fosters terrible behavior

it doesn't really... The terrible behavior was there in EQ, even back before it was possible to get a name change or server transfer. It was there in wow before the LFD.

 

When someone is able to hide their real self behind an in game avatar.... well, at that point they're totally anonymous. Cross server or single server.

 

The only problem with cross server and bad behavior is when the game doesn't give you the same set of tools cross server that they do for same server. You'll notice the bad behaviors more because you won't have the tools to filter it out like you do on your own server; but that's not a given... it just hinges on if the developers give you the right tools.

[ferroz]

Because you become another faceless cog in the machine, free to be a complete ****** to other people. If you actually have to communicate with other human beings, rather then press a button, you become accountable for your actions. Because no one wants to play with a *******.

accountability is a myth.

[Qoojo]

I agree with the OP. I played EQ1 for 3+ years starting from its release, along with every other MMO, and I never once heard about or saw anything mentioned about black lists for people with poor behavior. There is no central location to even coordinate something like it because every reputable forum delete things like black lists.

 

There is no such thing as server community. It's just a bunch of random people thrown together on one server. Eventually you get to know the noisier people, and which people or guilds you don't want to group with, but it's not like it's a coordinated server wide thing.

[wifeaggro]

What ever server community they were trying to build was completely destroyed by the massive sharding they are doing. I see one or two other people per zone. Thank god ive a guild ive been gaming with dor years. Tor makes extremely tough to make new allies

[Pretorian]

It did have improvements. I freely admit that it reduced queue times. But I feel the price was too high.

 

And in the end it didn't do THAT much to shorten que-times.

 

For me it's not only about community but also immersion. The feeling I get beeing part of a wide community is instantly body-slammed to the ground when some "out-of-this-world"-mechanic randomly mixes me up with other players in a "parallel universe".

 

LFG-tool - YES

X-server - NO

[OSUNightfall]

it doesn't really... The terrible behavior was there in EQ, even back before it was possible to get a name change or server transfer. It was there in wow before the LFD.

 

When someone is able to hide their real self behind an in game avatar.... well, at that point they're totally anonymous. Cross server or single server.

 

The only problem with cross server and bad behavior is when the game doesn't give you the same set of tools cross server that they do for same server. You'll notice the bad behaviors more because you won't have the tools to filter it out like you do on your own server; but that's not a given... it just hinges on if the developers give you the right tools.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, I think. Yeah, bad behavior has always been around, even back to EQ, back to AC, back to DaoC, take your pick. But in wow specifically, my recollection is that when cross-server was implemented it exploded. As a tank I run a lot of groups, and I really felt like there was a noticeable difference. Once there was no longer a penalty for bad behavior, people's true colors showed through a lot more.

[Orvish]

accountability is a myth.

 

It isn't. People would eventually be completely blackballed for being complete douches in dungeons before LFD was introduced.

[PowerElectronic]

There is no server community.

 

such things don't exist.

 

and they never will in this heavily instanced game.