What defines the cost of crafted items?

[TrixxieTriss]

This is a question with an answer that is different for most because there are 5 points to this and everyone’s idea of the cost varies.

 

1. The time or difficulty it takes to acquire the mats through farming

2. The cost and time it takes to get some mats that are only available by doing crew missions

3. The time it takes to make the items

4. The cost of mats on the GTN

5. Cost of white vendor mats (or mission ones if so inclined).

 

The first and third questions are the hardest to quantify because the value of a person’s time is theirs to decide.

The second is much easier to work out because those missions do cost credits.

The cost of the fourth point also fluctuates depending on demand and what cost people put on their time to farm the mats to list them.

 

There is also a hidden cost that is often over looked and that is companion lvls from gifts and also the legacy character boosts for increasing the return on crafting (augmented) and increasing the affection from gifts. Obviously the higher the comps doing the farming missions or crafting, the faster they do it and the higher chance that they crit multple items.

This obviously factors into the costs, but most of the time it’s overlooked and is nearly as hard to quality as point 1.

 

As someone who has recently got back into crafting after 5 years of leaving it be, I see some strange behaviour on the GTN with regards to pricing.

Often I see blue mats that are only available through missions or Jawa vendors at lower prices than it costs to collect them. Even from lvl 50 comps that crit.

I also see some people list crafted items that are much lower than the total cost of buying all the mats on the GTN and crafting that way. I don’t just mean a little bit lower, I’m talking about prices that aren’t much higher than the cost of the blue/purple items themselves. In some cases they are lower?

 

There are regular GTN sellers that I’ve come to recognise, the same as they probably recognise me. Most of us follow the old supply and demand premise to work out list pricing and often under cut each reasonably. It’s a bit of fun and I don’t think any of us really get annoyed at each other because we don’t devalue the items.

But then there are maybe 1-2 regular listers who don’t follow this etiquette or the ideas of supply and demand. These guys come onto the GTN and drive the value of items into the ground so that no one else can make any credit.

Ok, I hear the response to this already. It’s a free market and maybe we were all listing our prices too high. But that’s simply not the case and I’m sure most of the guys who trade with/against me would attest to that fact.

 

Here is an example from the other day.

 

I spent about 30k to farm the blue mats I needed to craft some particular dyes which took a while even though I was using 6 lvl 50 comps. I’d also spent several hours farming the mats.

Now there weren’t a lot of these crafted items on the GTN, but the ones there weren’t over priced from my past experiences in selling them. The demand is usually high for them. So I listed 5 to start with and went to do some more farming.

 

All 5 sold in 10mins so I knew my price wasn’t too high and could even be too low if the demand was there. But I don’t like to be too greedy or gouge the market. So I listed 10 this time at exaclty the same price. These also sold fast and were nearly gone before I’d finished crafting more,

So I listed all of the ones I had left and went on a mad dash to get more mats and at this point I had my wife farming them for me too and had several Alts and comps doing missions for blue items.

I literally couldn’t keep up with crafting and listing and I would guess the rest of my competition couldn’t either because none of us were driving the price down and some were even increasing it as cheaper ones disappeared.

 

It was literally taking me too long to get enough mats so I started to buy them off the GTN and I guess others did too. This obviously pushes up the cost of those mats and the actual cost to craft the items. But as long as you are still making a reasonable difference between the cost and sell price (and you don’t over commit), you can do this for a bit.

 

Then enter the 1 seller who arrives every day to drive the prices into the ground. He literally lists at nearly exactly the same price every day (regardless of market price) and it is sometimes half of what everyone else is listing for. He also lists so many that the market is flooded and it’s pointless trying to compete because as he sells he also relists.

Some of us have tried to compete, but when you consider the cost of the actual mats and the time invested, it’s a pointless excercise.

 

Now I know people can say, just buy them and relist. But once those prices hit the market the “value” of the item drops. If you buy them all (as some of us have tried) and relist them, they don’t sell fast enough to cover the cost of buy them before he appears the next day to do the same thing.

 

So what to do. Well what I see most people do is switch to another item he hasn’t listed and has good crafting value. But as soon as he sees this he will drive that price down too within a 24 hour window (sometimes less).

What I don’t get is he could still be selling exaclty the same amount he is selling, but at the price the market has set and make double the credits and not devalue the items. What he does makes no logical sense if his goal is to make credits off the GTN. I honestly don’t know how he even has the time to collect all the mats he would actually need to make the stuff and if he’s buying the mats he is selling his crafted items well below his cost. Often his prices are below what most of us would consider the “cost” price for us to craft even when we are farming the mats.

 

Which brings me back to what defines the cost of crafted items? It’s a really tricky question and I know it’s different for everyone. At what point do you just throw in the towel and say this is a pointless exercise with all the time and credits you are committing to craft and then have the same guy appear every day to drive the value down so much that it negates all that hard work.

 

For me I have a cutoff point and if I can’t find an item to craft that he hasn’t destroyed, I stop listing as I see many others do. Which drives competition from the market and people lose interest in that part of the game.

Now this might seem a wind fall for all those who want lower prices, but what happens when he is the only person listing items? Will he continue to keep the prices low or will he jack them up to unreasonable prices like certain CM items are. Basically if you want them you will have to pay his prices.

 

I’ve a working theory on what’s going on. My guess is this guy is a credit seller/farmer or a bot. He has plenty of mats because he runs multiple accounts to bot farm and then he has a bot that lists on the GTN for him. Either that or the person doing it is trying to drive all competition from the market so he can jack up the prices.

 

I’m interested to hear from the other “crafters” out there about their experiences and how they work out their cut off cost prices. Are you also seeing behaviours like this and how do you deal with it. Is it worth me even bothering to keep crafting under these circumstances.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I have level 600 crafters in every crew skill. TBH at this point I just craft what I need for my own characters and forget about putting anything on the GTN, because of the extreme undercutting. When I was selling things I never gouged, but I did want to at least cover the cost of the mats and crafting supplies, and when that stopped being feasible I decided not to bother anymore. I just make what I need for my own toons and that's cool.

 

I do think that every now and then someone doesn't know the ropes. When I first started playing the game I sold mats but I was not buying anything from the GTN myself. I thought that the 'suggested price' that the GTN gave me was what I was supposed to use to list them. Someone actually was nice enough to email me in-game to ask why I was selling so low and let me know that I didn't have to do that (and they were nice about it, and seemed to get that I might be a newbie).

 

But there are also people who seem to deliberately drive the prices very low, and I think a lot of crafters do end up giving up because of that.

[JattaGin]

I know what you're talking about and have often wondered about it. It's really annoying. I haven't been able to figure it out yet. But what happened is that I basically lost interest in crafting my items. I give an example: ship components. There are a few common upgrades and a few rarer ones. Those rarer ones always sold for a couple hundredthousand credits. Then came the server merge and one guy kept listing those for under 60.000 all the time. In bulk. Ever since the price for those upgrades is in that range. Since you need expensive and rare grade 5, 6, or 7 purple mats for those items, I don't see any sense in crafting these items anymore. Not for that low price. I can sell the purple mats directly on the GTN and make more profit.

 

One thing to keep in mind though: if you use jawa scrap and stuff, you don't pay anything for your mats. That's most likely one reason, certain people can keep the price low. However, I still don't understand why someone would list something for e. g. 50.000 if everyone else is easily selling the same item for 100.000. I find it stupid.

 

I understand very low prices in categories which don't sell well though. One of the few items I still craft regularly sells for a low amount, maybe 1 or 2 per week. If I offer it for just a little bit more, no one ever buys it. There are some who sell the same item for several million credits. And I keep listing for the same low price as 5 years ago. The reason is that it's the maximum buyers are willing to pay. The other sellers are just extremely unreasonable - and will never sell their items. But this is a different topic.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Those who want to earn big money won't accept your lower prices, because they whine, then, that someone is minimizing their vprofits by undercutting them. I have seen now few threads here of people complaining about "someone destroys the prices by undercutting them".

 

So, in the end, it's more or less those with the big money who define the prices - because they usually have so much money that they'll buy ALL of your wares and then re-sell that with THEIR own price ideas.

It's "business 101", as they say ( I don't know much about economy science at all ).

 

So, in the end, it's only a few "big boys" dominating & defining the market.

 

In my case, that's the reason why I only craft for myself, friends, and guildies.

[Screaming_Ziva]

This is a question with an answer that is different for most because there are 5 points to this and everyone’s idea of the cost varies.

 

1. The time or difficulty it takes to acquire the mats through farming

2. The cost and time it takes to get some mats that are only available by doing crew missions

3. The time it takes to make the items

4. The cost of mats on the GTN

5. Cost of white vendor mats (or mission ones if so inclined).

 

You forgot one thing on your list, the rarity of the schematic being used. There are still some recipes that you can no longer acquire that also has to be taken into account when pricing an item (Dread Forged armors, Underworld armors, etc).

[TrixxieTriss]

You forgot one thing on your list, the rarity of the schematic being used. There are still some recipes that you can no longer acquire that also has to be taken into account when pricing an item (Dread Forged armors, Underworld armors, etc).

 

True.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

I have all six crafters, and a lot of schematics. For low-tier items I often undercut because for cost-of-making I used the mat costs from running the crew missions for them, not buying the often highly inflated mats off the gtn. Tier 1 crafting mats are not worth 1000credits, I'm amazed that they sell for that off the gtn.

 

The one's listing the 5K armours for 300K or more forget that there are new players in the game that don't have millions in their bank.

 

If someone is aggressively underselling on items from one skill then it is simple to switch to another crafter for a while.

 

What I find is that the people who routinely undercut by 1 measly credit, are the ones who will double or triple the prices when they're the only ones left listing those items. There is a reason some items get undercut by 50% or more.

 

If I find a seller listing something for 350K that they were previously selling for 199k when I had put it up for 200K then I will list for 200k again even if I sell no items just to screw the greedy sellers and make them drop their prices.

[JediQuaker]

I think the main thing you are overlooking is that this is, in essence, just a game. None of the materials used actually "cost" anything other than time playing the game (and, therefore, I suppose, the sub fee - if you are subbed).

You don't have to pay your companions anything to craft the items, and they can be crafted even while you are off-line - so the time it takes them doesn't really matter.

 

I realize that many people look upon the GTN/crafting as if it is similar to real world buying/selling, but it really isn't. Although I generally try to sell crafted items on the GTN for a "profit", in many cases, if I have a bunch of materials or crafted items lying around taking up inventory space, I'll just dump them on the GTN really cheap to get rid of them - and yet, somehow, the (r/l) bills still get paid.

 

I regularly sell non-crafted items - from CM packs, drops, etc - really cheaply just to clear up space.

I'd suggest that the bottom line is - although it's entertaining to try to "work" the GTN, you can't really expect it to act as if it's real profit and loss like real life commerce.

Edited January 12, 2019 by JediQuaker

[IoNonSoEVero]

I think the main thing you are overlooking is that this is, in essence, just a game. None of the materials used actually "cost" anything other than time playing the game (and, therefore, I suppose, the sub fee - if you are subbed).

You don't have to pay your companions anything to craft the items, and they can be crafted even while you are off-line - so the time it takes them doesn't really matter.

 

Yes and no. It doesn't cost me anything to stop and harvest a crystal or piece of scrap on the road on some planet, that's true. But the items all require some sort of product from the crew skills vendor that you have to buy, and others require items that have to be obtained via crew missions. If you're crafting a basic thing that requires a 50 credit first aid kit, it's one thing, but the level 9 and 10 crafting items from the vendor run 1250 credits each and that can add up over time.

 

Crew missions cost money, and at the highest level, if you're sending out 8 companions, you're looking at between 32,000 - 40,000 credits to obtain a handful of mats for crafting. Which may or may not drop, because you sometimes need the ones that show up if the companion completes the mission "with extraordinary skill," and even with a level 50 companion you have no idea if they will or won't. Then there are the items that are even rarer, like CMTs and refined isotopes, which aren't easy or inexpensive to obtain (although CMTs seem to be dropping from command crates more regularly now). CMTs I think run between 1 and 2 million each on the GTN.

 

You also pay to learn the schematics from the crew skills trainer, although some of them might drop here and there for free.

 

So crafting isn't really free. For me it's worth it to be able to craft what I need because the price ends up being lower, at least for the more basic items, than it would be to go to the vendors. All of my toons now start out with a full set of mods, hilts and enhancements in their inventory so they can pop those into their weapons as they level up without going to the fleet or planetary vendors, for instance.

 

But it's not necessarily worth it to craft for others and sell on the GTN because sometimes the prices go so low that you really don't break even and it's a hassle to try to keep up with other sellers' pricing and play that market.

Edited January 12, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[TrixxieTriss]

I think the main thing you are overlooking is that this is, in essence, just a game. None of the materials used actually "cost" anything other than time playing the game (and, therefore, I suppose, the sub fee - if you are subbed).

You don't have to pay your companions anything to craft the items, and they can be crafted even while you are off-line - so the time it takes them doesn't really matter.

 

I realize that many people look upon the GTN/crafting as if it is similar to real world buying/selling, but it really isn't. Although I generally try to sell crafted items on the GTN for a "profit", in many cases, if I have a bunch of materials or crafted items lying around taking up inventory space, I'll just dump them on the GTN really cheap to get rid of them - and yet, somehow, the (r/l) bills still get paid.

 

I regularly sell non-crafted items - from CM packs, drops, etc - really cheaply just to clear up space.

I'd suggest that the bottom line is - although it's entertaining to try to "work" the GTN, you can't really expect it to act as if it's real profit and loss like real life commerce.

 

I completely disagree with this. Plus I didn’t ask what the real world monetary costs are. You really missed the whole point.

[BRKMSN]

Back when I used to craft to supplement my credit income, if I encountered sellers that undervalued items I crafted, I would simply buy them at the undervalued price and flip them. I would use (or save) my materials and game time for other things. Sometimes you have to hold things a little longer than you like because the market is flooded.

 

There is always something in demand and you have to stay on top of the market "happenings" and be flexible and willing to adapt. Flipping is often more profitable than crafting/selling when you run into the under-sellers. They also won't be "in business" very long.

[tahol]

There is only one answer to this question: The amount of credits other players are willing to pay. Everything else is just semantics and waste of time. One player is willing to pay more, because they have more of this imaginary currency called credits, or they want the item right now. Other player has less, and is prepared to be drifty and wait longer to find same item for cheaper. Nothing stops me putting something in GTN for 100 credits even if you ask million for it. No one defined the price to 100 credits, else than my whim. Or me willing to just get rid of something taking space in my inventory. I sell crafted materials cheaper than others. Why? Because they get bought. If I rise the price, no one buys. There is no magic formula behind this. It is all about what people are ready to pay, and for what price I am ready to sell. Edited January 13, 2019 by tahol

[JediQuaker]

Yes and no. It doesn't cost me anything to stop and harvest a crystal or piece of scrap on the road on some planet, that's true. But the items all require some sort of product from the crew skills vendor that you have to buy, and others require items that have to be obtained via crew missions. If you're crafting a basic thing that requires a 50 credit first aid kit, it's one thing, but the level 9 and 10 crafting items from the vendor run 1250 credits each and that can add up over time.

Yes, but the "credits" are still just imaginary currency in a fantasy game - no "real" cost.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yes, but the "credits" are still just imaginary currency in a fantasy game - no "real" cost.

 

Yes, but within the context of the game, those "imaginary" credits and mats still take time and effort to acquire. Thus, there's an intrinsic cost to crafting.

[PorsaLindahl]

This is a question with an answer that is different for most because there are 5 points to this and everyone’s idea of the cost varies.

 

1. The time or difficulty it takes to acquire the mats through farming

2. The cost and time it takes to get some mats that are only available by doing crew missions

3. The time it takes to make the items

4. The cost of mats on the GTN

5. Cost of white vendor mats (or mission ones if so inclined).

 

 

You missed a point, which is probably the most important:

 

6. People just don't care, want a quick sale, and will undercut to the point of taking a huge loss on the value.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There is only one answer to this question: The amount of credits other players are willing to pay. Everything else is just semantics and waste of time.

 

No. I do not believe this.

 

My belief is this : That the answer is simple : Greed.

 

Greed by those who sell.

 

Because I often see items being vastly overpriced even if it is rubbish - driven by greed.

I often see items not selling, but people refusing to sell it at lower prices. And sometimes, they even whine in the chat about "it's not selling !" even when admitting that they refuse to reduce the prices.

 

No. I do not believe that "the price someone is willing to pay" is the right anwer. Because that only turns the light away from the greed of the sellers.

 

The answer should imho therefore be :

 

"The amount of credits other players are wanting to get."

[BRKMSN]

That's funny.

 

People act like greed only works one way. If you want something but want to have it and all your precious credits too, that is also greed. The 1st answer was right. The price is determined by what a person is willing to pay. If the "greedy" price is too high, nobody will pay it.

 

Assuming you see people actually complaining in chat because their item won't sell at a ridiculous price, that's nothing compared to the number of people complaining because the evil, greedy, fellow players that are wanting too much for "whatever it is they want.'

[BlueWanderer]

When prices for the crafted item are regularly below what you could get for selling the mats it takes to make that item, the item is priced to low. I never understood why so many people spend time making crafted items, basically for a loss, because they sell for less than what the mats sell for.

[Darevsool]

Blue mats are a mixed bag, value wise.

 

You get so many of them while you're grinding up your crew skills, and if you do that with multiple toons, you can have 1000's that you don't really know what to do with if you're not using them.

 

I've always figured that was why so many blue mats were so "cheap" on the GTN.

On top of, if you run the mission to get the purple mats...you're also getting a TON of blues that you're not interested in.

 

So to that ONE point...that may be why.

 

For DYE's I rarely pay attention to them. Most of the crafted DYEs available at the trainers are ugly (imo) and the ones you get from the various rep vendors are the only ones I really like. I sell those between 30k & 50k each, depending on if anyone else is around that price.

 

The resource list for them isn't too intense and it's pretty easy to crit for an freebie.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Darevsool

[Lhancelot]

That's funny.

 

People act like greed only works one way. If you want something but want to have it and all your precious credits too, that is also greed. The 1st answer was right. The price is determined by what a person is willing to pay. If the "greedy" price is too high, nobody will pay it.

 

Assuming you see people actually complaining in chat because their item won't sell at a ridiculous price, that's nothing compared to the number of people complaining because the evil, greedy, fellow players that are wanting too much for "whatever it is they want.'

 

I agree with this. ^

 

Also, there are so many variables as to why someone sells "too cheap" or "for too much" to worry on it.

 

One thing is there are so many ways to make credits off the GTN that if someone begins monopolizing certain craft skill items you have hundreds of other things to craft/make/farm etc.

 

I never found myself at a dead end when trying to find ways to make credits on the GTN, and I never let undercutters or competitors clog my ways to make credits off the GTN.

 

You just got to be flexible and try not to be one-dimensional, also letting the behavior and actions of others on the GTN which are out of your control irritate you will only add more stress.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

When prices for the crafted item are regularly below what you could get for selling the mats it takes to make that item, the item is priced to low. I never understood why so many people spend time making crafted items, basically for a loss, because they sell for less than what the mats sell for.

 

Or the GTN prices for the mats are ridiculously inflated.

 

For the blue mats the cost for running crew missions for them (not accounting for crits, since they're not needed) is less than 500 credits for tiers 1 through 4, and yet they're routinely listed (and presumable selling) for 3000 credits or more.

 

I buy off the gtn when mat costs are reasonable, and run crew missions when they are not. I will not inflate my selling prices due to the GTN greed when there is a set, fixed cost for mats already.

 

New players do not have 500K to drop on a crafted item than costs about 5k (using the mat costs from running crew missions) to make.

 

I would rather sell crafted gear that is actually USED in the game, then the mats that go to feed conquest grinding guilds.

[Stellarcrusade]

It typically is some function of what people are willing to pay and how aggressive people are competing for sales, but with a HARD minimum of (cost of purchase of materials + 5%). Edited January 14, 2019 by Stellarcrusade

[PorsaLindahl]

It typically is some function of what people are willing to pay and how aggressive people are competing for sales, but with a HARD minimum of (cost of purchase of materials + 5%).

 

Which means -3% profit from cost? The GTN listing fee is 8% (raised from 6% in 5.8). So even then that 5% would've been -1% profit after listing fees.

 

What people should be listing at, if you want to actually receive 5% over cost, is list at 13% over cost. That way the GTN fees are covered as well.

[Sarova]

So, in the end, it's more or less those with the big money who define the prices - because they usually have so much money that they'll buy ALL of your wares and then re-sell that with THEIR own price ideas.

It's "business 101", as they say ( I don't know much about economy science at all ).

 

So, in the end, it's only a few "big boys" dominating & defining the market.

 

In my case, that's the reason why I only craft for myself, friends, and guildies.

This is the only thing that defines the price for those who use crafting as their way of making money in the game. I price my stuff based on what I know is the best price it sells for and I won't go under that (when I see augments listed under 35000 I'm tempted as pointed out above to buy the lot and resell them at a higher price - but my lazyarsedness prevents that). I mainly sell crafted mods/enhancements/augments and dyes. Depending on prices I may sell implants and relics but not often. I will not sell anything else that can be crafted because in my experience it's been a waste of time and resources (I found main armour to be bad sellers for me). With my crafting companions all at 50 influence I often get a "free" augment/mod/enhancement or dye so a lot of my items are pure profit. Armours and relics don't duplicate and getting an augment slot on one does not make it any more valuable. I rarely buy mats but I do factor in the cost of the necessary crafting materials (such as flux) and the GTN percentage.

[Lord_Thorne]

There is only one answer to this question: The amount of credits other players are willing to pay. Everything else is just semantics and waste of time. .

QFT - though I might add an edit "and what prices players are willing to post."

There's several reasons unrelated to real-world market forces that someone might buy or sell at ludicrous prices (high or low). Analyzing the GTN with real-word economics is about as effective as analyzing the Star Wars universe with real-world physics.