Why is there no option to amicably part ways with Lana?

[Xenipher]

Yes, or if she'd done what some of the Republic characters do for Imperial PCs. My SW got letters from Jorgan and Rusk saying that they wouldn't leave the Alliance but they would not fight directly against the Republic. They could have done the same for Lana on the other side: "This came for you from the SIS. I respect your decision but I can't help you fight the Empire. I'll be here for other Alliance needs." Simple enough.

I'm tired of the devs turning characters against us. It wasn't funny when they did it with Theron (even though he was a double agent, his actions killed a lot of people and could be a permanent breach of trust for many PCs) and it isn't funny if they're doing the same with Lana now.

Exactly. A respectable position that doesn't require Lana to look so dang awful. For Theron, yes, he was a double agent but he's also the reason the order even got the map, iirc. I didn't leave him to die or anything but ffs man. When someone tells me they did leave him to die, I'm like: I get it. To be fair to Theron though the entire plotline was a mess, IMO.

[Goreshaga]

Yes, or if she'd done what some of the Republic characters do for Imperial PCs. My SW got letters from Jorgan and Rusk saying that they wouldn't leave the Alliance but they would not fight directly against the Republic. They could have done the same for Lana on the other side: "This came for you from the SIS. I respect your decision but I can't help you fight the Empire. I'll be here for other Alliance needs." Simple enough.

 

I'm tired of the devs turning characters against us. It wasn't funny when they did it with Theron (even though he was a double agent, his actions killed a lot of people and could be a permanent breach of trust for many PCs) and it isn't funny if they're doing the same with Lana now.

I'd rather have Lana tell my JK that she can't work with the Republic but is still willing to be part of the Alliance as long as she doesn't have to go against the Empire, or that she wants to go back to the Empire but will not do anything that would harm the Alliance and they part on good terms than set her as someone my JK could not trust anymore

[aeterno]

You can't kill/boot Lana because atm she's about the only story anchor for all the possible permutations left. Everyone else has a question mark over their status.

 

I mean they could give the option, then spend resources to have variations of narration starring companions you still have alive... but even then they'd have to gate stuff in some way to make sure you can't kill everyone sod that one of the red lines carries you onwards...

 

If they're ever spending that much cents per subscription/CC dollar on content production again I'd much much prefer a return of class specific content and some more imagination in the player agency department than a simple kill off option for every NPC I meet.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Exactly. A respectable position that doesn't require Lana to look so dang awful. For Theron, yes, he was a double agent but he's also the reason the order even got the map, iirc. I didn't leave him to die or anything but ffs man. When someone tells me they did leave him to die, I'm like: I get it. To be fair to Theron though the entire plotline was a mess, IMO.

 

Yeah, the writers seem to have a need to smash the characters as much as they can, and it's sad. Same with Koth; they could have let him leave for standing up to his principles without planting a bomb on the Gravestone. The former thing made him look like he was willing to take a stand; the latter made him look reckless and foolish.

 

With Lana there are about a thousand ways they could have her pull back and maintain dignity and trust without resorting to hiding information and blocking the SIS from contacting the PC.

 

With Theron, I hated the traitor storyline. I thought it would have been far better served if he'd been captured and someone else had been operating with a Theron disguise (the way the Eagle could resemble anyone he wanted in the IA story) or he'd had some sort of conditioning that had been activated like the Imperial Agent. He was alone on Nathema for a few hours when the PC and Lana were exploring the sanitarium in KOTET and he also was with the Revanites for several days, and any one of those instances could have been used to explain how he was conditioned or brought under the influence of someone else.

 

But instead they had him appear to double-cross the PC. Even if it was a ruse, he still did cause a literal trainwreck, shoot Lana with a stun gun, get a lot of people on Umbara and Copero killed, and lead the order of Zildrog right to the map that allowed them to find Zildrog, which led to the Fleet and Gravestone being destroyed. There are a lot of reasons there why a PC would not trust him anymore.

 

I can't leave him to die because that scene is awful (and I think that it will have negative flags for Lana later), but several have sent him away. With my own characters, on the few that have kept him, I don't think they'd be able to trust him as a member of their inner circle anymore, and he'd probably be out there scrubbing the decks for a while.

 

I'd rather have Lana tell my JK that she can't work with the Republic but is still willing to be part of the Alliance as long as she doesn't have to go against the Empire, or that she wants to go back to the Empire but will not do anything that would harm the Alliance and they part on good terms than set her as someone my JK could not trust anymore

 

Yeah, that would be a lot better than what they seem to be setting up with her. And that seems to be far more in line with her personality as we know it so far. In the past when Lana's had to cut ties, she's been very frank and open about it. Like in the SoR and KOTFE romances, her breakup scenes are really straightforward, ie, "here's what's going on, let's just deal with it." Having her refuse to let the SIS contact the PC doesn't seem like her.

[Goreshaga]

Yeah, that would be a lot better than what they seem to be setting up with her. And that seems to be far more in line with her personality as we know it so far. In the past when Lana's had to cut ties, she's been very frank and open about it. Like in the SoR and KOTFE romances, her breakup scenes are really straightforward, ie, "here's what's going on, let's just deal with it." Having her refuse to let the SIS contact the PC doesn't seem like her.

I liked how my JK and Lana parted ways at the end of SoR.

My JK offered her to join the Republic but Lana answered that she was flattered by the offer but belonged to the Empire, that was quite nice seeing a Jedi and a Sith showing respect for each other but choosing duty over friendship nonetheless.

But here, yes, the fact that she's not letting the SIS contact us is weird, and i actually don't understand, especially if our character has already said twice that they wanted to side with the Republic

 

About the traitor arc, even if that was hard to go through it on a character romancing him, i actually enjoyed some aspects of it, like the fact that Theron would do anything (well even the most stupid things, but he already showed in Annihilation that it's totally something he'd do) to protect the woman (in case of my JK) he loved, even if there was a risk for him to loose her love and trust.

It somehow showed that if they could go through this and still be together at the end, then there's nothing that could tear them apart (and that really suits the kind of relationship that fit my JK)

Thing is also that on a character romancing him, it was plain obvious with his line about doing anything to protect her that it was just an act and that he was actually doing a double agent job.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Goreshaga

[Xenipher]

Yeah, the writers seem to have a need to smash the characters as much as they can, and it's sad. Same with Koth; they could have let him leave for standing up to his principles without planting a bomb on the Gravestone. The former thing made him look like he was willing to take a stand; the latter made him look reckless and foolish.

 

With Lana there are about a thousand ways they could have her pull back and maintain dignity and trust without resorting to hiding information and blocking the SIS from contacting the PC.

 

With Theron, I hated the traitor storyline. I thought it would have been far better served if he'd been captured and someone else had been operating with a Theron disguise (the way the Eagle could resemble anyone he wanted in the IA story) or he'd had some sort of conditioning that had been activated like the Imperial Agent. He was alone on Nathema for a few hours when the PC and Lana were exploring the sanitarium in KOTET and he also was with the Revanites for several days, and any one of those instances could have been used to explain how he was conditioned or brought under the influence of someone else.

 

But instead they had him appear to double-cross the PC. Even if it was a ruse, he still did cause a literal trainwreck, shoot Lana with a stun gun, get a lot of people on Umbara and Copero killed, and lead the order of Zildrog right to the map that allowed them to find Zildrog, which led to the Fleet and Gravestone being destroyed. There are a lot of reasons there why a PC would not trust him anymore.

I can't leave him to die because that scene is awful (and I think that it will have negative flags for Lana later), but several have sent him away. With my own characters, on the few that have kept him, I don't think they'd be able to trust him as a member of their inner circle anymore, and he'd probably be out there scrubbing the decks for a while.

 

 

 

Yeah, that would be a lot better than what they seem to be setting up with her. And that seems to be far more in line with her personality as we know it so far. In the past when Lana's had to cut ties, she's been very frank and open about it. Like in the SoR and KOTFE romances, her breakup scenes are really straightforward, ie, "here's what's going on, let's just deal with it." Having her refuse to let the SIS contact the PC doesn't seem like her.

I agree with everything you say here. Especially the Theron stuff. I still like his character but Crisis on Umbara depended on him hoping you and Lana would escape the train in time. Yes, he shot the window giving you an out, but crap happens and what if you didn't make it or got crushed by wreckage; it was all over the place. Everything after that were the writer's giving Theron the idiot ball and him running full speed with it. I've never left him to die, but one of my SW did tell him to leave. Such a terrible plotline and characterisation for Theron, IMO.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I liked how my JK and Lana parted ways at the end of SoR.

My JK offered her to join the Republic but Lana answered that she was flattered by the offer but belonged to the Empire, that was quite nice seeing a Jedi and a Sith showing respect for each other but choosing duty over friendship nonetheless.

But here, yes, the fact that she's not letting the SIS contact us is weird, and i actually don't understand, especially if our character has already said twice that they wanted to side with the Republic

 

About the traitor arc, even if that was hard to go through it on a character romancing him, i actually enjoyed some aspects of it, like the fact that Theron would do anything (well even the most stupid things, but he already showed in Annihilation that it's totally something he'd do) to protect the woman (in case of my JK) he loved, even if there was a risk for him to loose her love and trust.

It somehow showed that if they could go through this and still be together at the end, then there's nothing that could tear them apart (and that really suits the kind of relationship that fit my JK)

Thing is also that on a character romancing him, it was plain obvious with his line about doing anything to protect her that it was just an act and that he was actually doing a double agent job.

 

She's cute in the SoR romance with Republic characters, for sure. If you play a smuggler, you can offer to jet around the galaxy with her. In the romance, she's honest on Rishi and says that she wants to be with the PC but they have no future because they're on opposite sides. The PC's able to convince her to enjoy it while it lasts, more or less.

 

Overall she's just so straightforward with everything, and I really don't understand what they seem to be doing with her now either. Unless the goal *is* to get Republic characters to want to break with her and they're table setting for that. From a romance perspective, withholding information and not letting the SIS contact the PC is even more problematic. Either way, it's very troubling and it seems completely OOC for her, and it's disappointing they seem to want to go there with her.

 

From a romance perspective with Theron, it's great that you can frame it that way with him. From my characters' perspective (non-romanced), even though he meant well, he caused a lot of grief and damage, and some of them can't get past that.

[AscendingSky]

She's cute in the SoR romance with Republic characters, for sure. If you play a smuggler, you can offer to jet around the galaxy with her. In the romance, she's honest on Rishi and says that she wants to be with the PC but they have no future because they're on opposite sides. The PC's able to convince her to enjoy it while it lasts, more or less.

 

Overall she's just so straightforward with everything, and I really don't understand what they seem to be doing with her now either. Unless the goal *is* to get Republic characters to want to break with her and they're table setting for that. From a romance perspective, withholding information and not letting the SIS contact the PC is even more problematic. Either way, it's very troubling and it seems completely OOC for her, and it's disappointing they seem to want to go there with her.

 

From a romance perspective with Theron, it's great that you can frame it that way with him. From my characters' perspective (non-romanced), even though he meant well, he caused a lot of grief and damage, and some of them can't get past that.

 

Theron does something bad: "He caused a lot of grief and damage..."

Lana does something bad: "It seems completely OOC for her..."

 

There's that double standard again. I dislike when people try to handwave away anything objectionable Lana (or any other favorite companion) says or does with "Oh that was just bad writing, she'd never really do that if she was written properly," but then they want to nail Theron (or any other companion they dislike) to the wall for every questionable thing he does regardless of how OOC it is compared to his past behavior and canon material or how little sense it makes in general. Either blame the writers for both of the characters' OOC actions or hold both characters 100% accountable for said actions. Don't pick one to call his kill/dismiss option "karma" and gleefully gloat over getting to make him cry/leaving him to die while insisting the other one is a pure and perfect Space Waifu who never really does anything wrong or makes any mistakes at all and therefore should never receive her own kill/dismiss option.

 

ETA: Also, people who say it's OOC for Lana to withhold important information from your protagonist should remember how she LIED to said protagonist about how she deliberately set up Theron to get captured on Rishi. Also how she only admitted to the lie after the fact, AND she expressed zero guilt for lying in the first place (in her own words, "I will not apologize for being right.") Characters do grow and change over time, yes, but this kind of behavior is something Lana HAS demonstrated in the past. Just saying.

Edited January 13, 2019 by AscendingSky

[Xenipher]

Off topic but, my biggest problem with the traitor plotline is how it made Theron look. I've read enough material to know he's an excellent spy and very intelligent. The entire plotline as presented would only work if they gave him the idiot ball and that's exactly what they did. It's OOC for my main SW to keep him around but I decided to anyway because he was a victim of some terrible writing.

[AscendingSky]

Off topic but, my biggest problem with the traitor plotline is how it made Theron look. I've read enough material to know he's an excellent spy and very intelligent. The entire plotline as presented would only work if they gave him the idiot ball and that's exactly what they did. It's OOC for my main SW to keep him around but I decided to anyway because he was a victim of some terrible writing.

 

I agree that there was a lot of BS going on with that plotline, not just with Theron but also with Lana and other characters in the story. To me it always felt like Charles Boyd and the other writers originally had Theron set up to be an actual traitor so that Space Waifu Lana could be the unquestioned hero, but then someone reminded them "Um, you know that straight/bi women and gay/bi men also play this game and could have romanced Theron instead of Lana, right?" So then they had to scramble to rewrite everything so as not to create another stupid Quinncident-style plot hole and turn a popular male LI into a one-dimensional villain for no reason other than Charles Boyd likes making SWTOR more like Game of Thrones.

 

I'm not saying that's actually what happened, but the awful execution of said story sure made it feel that way to me. Some parts of the plotline only made sense if Theron had originally been written as a 100% traitor, and some parts only made sense if he was a double agent all along, and then there were the parts that made NO sense from either perspective and felt like hasty rewrites and handwaves.

Edited January 13, 2019 by AscendingSky

[Goreshaga]

She's cute in the SoR romance with Republic characters, for sure. If you play a smuggler, you can offer to jet around the galaxy with her. In the romance, she's honest on Rishi and says that she wants to be with the PC but they have no future because they're on opposite sides. The PC's able to convince her to enjoy it while it lasts, more or less.

 

Overall she's just so straightforward with everything, and I really don't understand what they seem to be doing with her now either. Unless the goal *is* to get Republic characters to want to break with her and they're table setting for that. From a romance perspective, withholding information and not letting the SIS contact the PC is even more problematic. Either way, it's very troubling and it seems completely OOC for her, and it's disappointing they seem to want to go there with her.

 

From a romance perspective with Theron, it's great that you can frame it that way with him. From my characters' perspective (non-romanced), even though he meant well, he caused a lot of grief and damage, and some of them can't get past that.

I've never romanced her on any of my Pub characters, and only romanced her on 1 SW, so i don't know how it goes with a pub toon.

 

There are thing that make more sense from a romance perpective actually, some interactions with Lana seem off if you're not romancing her. Main examples would be the "watching you sleep" on the Gravestone at the end of KOTET or the romantic sunset walk in the wood at the begining of JUS, probably great scenes if you're romancing her, because i think it'd be quite cute, but that comes off as a bit weird or creepy when not that close to her.

I also think the traitor arc is probably better for a character romancing Theron, it makes the fake treason more intimate, that actually partially why i tried the romance on my main character in the first place and ended up liking that pairing a lot more than i though i would as i first intended for them to be like BBFs, they're clearly my favourite pairing among all of my characters.

 

But back to Lana, i don't like the fact that it seems she's lying to my characters with her keeping the SIS away from them, especially when they asked her twice if it was bothering her to work with the Republic, that doesn't look good (still good for my JK as it doesn look like it so far, but it's a bit worrying nonetheless)

My JK can forgive a fake treason like Theron's, even more so when it was done with the intent to protect both my character and her Alliance, but if someone is blatantly lying to her and turning into an actual traitor, that will be much more difficult for her to forgive...

[Xenipher]

ETA: Also, people who say it's OOC for Lana to withhold important information from your protagonist should remember how she LIED to said protagonist about how she deliberately set up Theron to get captured on Rishi. Also how she only admitted to the lie after the fact, AND she expressed zero guilt for lying in the first place (in her own words, "I will not apologize for being right.") Characters do grow and change over time, yes, but this kind of behavior is something Lana HAS demonstrated in the past. Just saying.

During Rishi, my immediate reaction was to force choke Lana for that and I was disappointed that I didn't get the option. Theron had been helping with the Revan stuff and showing he was a trustworthy ally in this, and I'd warmed up to his character at that point. Then Lana set him up to be captured and tortured. I was fuming.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Xenipher

[Goreshaga]

During Rishi, my immediate reaction was to force choke Lana for that and I was disappointed that I didn't get the option. Theron had been helping with the Revan stuff and showing he was a trustworthy ally in this, and I'd warmed up to his character at that point. Then Lana set him up to be captured and tortured. I was fuming.

I admit my JK was pretty pissed at Lana for that and would probably have punched her in the teeth if she had the chance, mainly because of her feelings for Theron though

 

She let it slide at the time because they were not as close as they are now, but this will make it even more difficult to forgive if she's actually holding informations from my JK now...

Edited January 13, 2019 by Goreshaga

[AscendingSky]

I also think the traitor arc is probably better for a character romancing Theron, it makes the fake treason more intimate, that actually partially why i tried the romance on my main character in the first place and ended up liking that pairing a lot more than i though i would as i first intended for them to be like BBFs, they're clearly my favourite pairing among all of my characters.

 

While the traitor arc was something of a mess from beginning to end, I agree that it felt better playing it from the perspective of a toon that romanced Theron. His motivation for pulling the crazy, dangerous stunt he did is stronger and makes sense after you hear his voice breaking in this line from Nathema:

 

"If anything happened to you, I couldn't... you mean everything to me."

 

People do stupid, reckless things for love, after all. I'm still not happy with the traitor arc, but it at least fits together better in my head with the rest of Theron's behavior and personality when you're romancing him.

Edited January 13, 2019 by AscendingSky

[Goreshaga]

While the traitor arc was something of a mess from beginning to end, I agree that it felt better playing it from the perspective of a toon that romanced Theron. His motivation for pulling the crazy, dangerous stunt he did is stronger and makes sense after you hear his voice breaking in this line from Nathema:

 

"If anything happened to you, I couldn't... you mean everything to me."

 

People do stupid, reckless things for love, after all. I'm still not happy with the traitor arc, but it at least fits together better in my head with the rest of Theron's behavior and personality when you're romancing him.

That's how i feel about it too. He actually kinda wrecked the Nar Shaddaa spaceport to help Teff'ith in Annihilation, so the traitor arc feels like something he'd do for someone he trully loves.

That line moves me so much eveytime i hear it

[IoNonSoEVero]

I admit my JK was pretty pissed at Lana for that and would probably have punched her in the teeth if she had the chance, mainly because of her feelings for Theron though

 

She let it slide at the time because they were not as close as they are now, but this will make it even more difficult to forgive if she's actually holding informations from my JK now...

 

She didn't lie about what she did, though. For both Imperial and Republic characters she freely admitted setting him up, and on Republic characters she even admits trying to get into his head. She also says she knows he's related to Revan and that he's got implants to reduce his pain and susceptibility to torture, so it seems as she thought he'd be all right. Not excusing it, because it was a crappy thing to do, but she's pragmatic and Theron was someone she knew was going to go back to the other side after their alliance.

 

My characters early on did make her apologize, but more recently they just have shrugged and said "eh, you were right to sell him out."

 

FWIW on the romance on both Republic and Imperial characters, she regrets shattering Theron's trust and says she would never want to lose the PC's trust.

 

Also, Rishi was seven years before 5.10 though, and one would think that trust on both sides has grown.

[Noerra]

Theron does something bad: "He caused a lot of grief and damage..."

Lana does something bad: "It seems completely OOC for her..."

 

There's that double standard again. I dislike when people try to handwave away anything objectionable Lana (or any other favorite companion) says or does with "Oh that was just bad writing, she'd never really do that if she was written properly," but then they want to nail Theron (or any other companion they dislike) to the wall for every questionable thing he does regardless of how OOC it is compared to his past behavior and canon material or how little sense it makes in general. Either blame the writers for both of the characters' OOC actions or hold both characters 100% accountable for said actions. Don't pick one to call his kill/dismiss option "karma" and gleefully gloat over getting to make him cry/leaving him to die while insisting the other one is a pure and perfect Space Waifu who never really does anything wrong or makes any mistakes at all and therefore should never receive her own kill/dismiss option.

 

ETA: Also, people who say it's OOC for Lana to withhold important information from your protagonist should remember how she LIED to said protagonist about how she deliberately set up Theron to get captured on Rishi. Also how she only admitted to the lie after the fact, AND she expressed zero guilt for lying in the first place (in her own words, "I will not apologize for being right.") Characters do grow and change over time, yes, but this kind of behavior is something Lana HAS demonstrated in the past. Just saying.

 

This is all true. And Rishi is not only case where Lana has withold information from PC. She has been doing it here and there trough whole kotfe/kotet. I can't remember exact parts of the story right now (i try to dig them up later if anyone else doesn't remember) but i do remember having my PC tell her "You should have told me" on some occasions and Lana replying something like "I didn't want to trouble you with mundane matters". These lines have been from selecting dialogs that question her so if someone goes trough thinking Lana is their best friend they might not see them.

 

And while not in the subject of Lana here, i must say it bothers me why people still talk about Therons "traitor" arc as he would have somehow betrayed PC even it was a ruse. He risked everything that was important to him on there in attempt of (and also succeeding) to save enormous amount of lives. There would have been much more lives lost if he wouldn't have done what he did. Not saying he is saint just saying others have cause equally big damages in their attempts to do good (or bad if dark side heh) with situations where much less lives been at risk. Actually quite many of the alliances missions (chapters) have been going with pretty similar way - have plan to prevent evil/gain something, things don't go as they were planned, killing lot of things, explosions and fire, winging away from situation somehow.

 

All that being said, i don't think people are purposelly handwaving faults away from one comp or another here. I think this whole plot shows in totally different light depending what you choose to say on dialogs and also if you romance someone. This thread has shown on some occasions how some things that happen (or are said) in the story can come as complete surprise for playes who have been choosing different dialogs. It is actually really interesting to have this talk and learn about different ways the story can look.

[Goreshaga]

She didn't lie about what she did, though. For both Imperial and Republic characters she freely admitted setting him up, and on Republic characters she even admits trying to get into his head. She also says she knows he's related to Revan and that he's got implants to reduce his pain and susceptibility to torture, so it seems as she thought he'd be all right. Not excusing it, because it was a crappy thing to do, but she's pragmatic and Theron was someone she knew was going to go back to the other side after their alliance.

 

My characters early on did make her apologize, but more recently they just have shrugged and said "eh, you were right to sell him out."

 

FWIW on the romance on both Republic and Imperial characters, she regrets shattering Theron's trust and says she would never want to lose the PC's trust.

 

Also, Rishi was seven years before 5.10 though, and one would think that trust on both sides has grown.

The interaction was interesting though, as my JK called her out for letting him get captured to which she replied that my JK was letting her feelings get in the way, which was kinda true, so she calmed down and went with Lana's plan, but my JK still blamed Lana for not telling them what her plan was though.

 

But yeah at that time they were not that close.

Now though she'd not be very happy if Lana is holding back informations and making important decision without even telling her as Lana's supposed to be one of the person my JK trusts the most

[Xenipher]

She didn't lie about what she did, though. For both Imperial and Republic characters she freely admitted setting him up, and on Republic characters she even admits trying to get into his head. She also says she knows he's related to Revan and that he's got implants to reduce his pain and susceptibility to torture, so it seems as she thought he'd be all right. Not excusing it, because it was a crappy thing to do, but she's pragmatic and Theron was someone she knew was going to go back to the other side after their alliance.

 

My characters early on did make her apologize, but more recently they just have shrugged and said "eh, you were right to sell him out."

 

FWIW on the romance on both Republic and Imperial characters, she regrets shattering Theron's trust and says she would never want to lose the PC's trust.

 

Also, Rishi was seven years before 5.10 though, and one would think that trust on both sides has grown.

There's no excuse whatsoever for Lana setting him up to be captured and tortured and her excuse for it is complete BS, IMO. If she'd have asked Theron to allow himself to be captured and tortured, he'd have done it. He's not squeamish or risk averse. My opinion of Lana took a nosedive on Rishi.

[AscendingSky]

She didn't lie about what she did, though. For both Imperial and Republic characters she freely admitted setting him up, and on Republic characters she even admits trying to get into his head. She also says she knows he's related to Revan and that he's got implants to reduce his pain and susceptibility to torture, so it seems as she thought he'd be all right. Not excusing it, because it was a crappy thing to do, but she's pragmatic and Theron was someone she knew was going to go back to the other side after their alliance.

 

My characters early on did make her apologize, but more recently they just have shrugged and said "eh, you were right to sell him out."

 

Nope, she 100% lied about it. When Theron is first captured, she tells your protagonist (on both the Republic and Imperial side) that it was effectively bad luck Theron got captured--they were just checking out a Revanite safehouse, but oh noes, somehow the Revanites must have expected them and they were ambushed! She totally only held Jakarro back because Theron was already caught and she didn't want everyone to get captured, not because she was deliberately setting up Theron to take a fall to further her own aims, she swears! 100% lying on her part.

 

Only after Theron comes back from being rescued and calls Lana out on throwing him under the bus does Lana admit she did, in fact, throw him under the bus. The actual conversation lines are different depending on if you're playing an Imperial or Republic toon, but on both sides the freshly-tortured Theron has to call her out before she admits she deliberately orchestrated his capture from the start. SoR is my favorite expansion by far, I've played through it many times, I KNOW how this story goes.

 

Also, for someone who claims they're not excusing what she did, you're giving an awful lot of excuses for what she did. But considering you have repeatedly stated you hate Theron's guts, I'm not all that surprised by this.

Edited January 13, 2019 by AscendingSky

[Noerra]

I agree that there was a lot of BS going on with that plotline, not just with Theron but also with Lana and other characters in the story. To me it always felt like Charles Boyd and the other writers originally had Theron set up to be an actual traitor so that Space Waifu Lana could be the unquestioned hero, but then someone reminded them "Um, you know that straight/bi women and gay/bi men also play this game and could have romanced Theron instead of Lana, right?" So then they had to scramble to rewrite everything so as not to create another stupid Quinncident-style plot hole and turn a popular male LI into a one-dimensional villain for no reason other than Charles Boyd likes making SWTOR more like Game of Thrones.

 

I'm not saying that's actually what happened, but the awful execution of said story sure made it feel that way to me. Some parts of the plotline only made sense if Theron had originally been written as a 100% traitor, and some parts only made sense if he was a double agent all along, and then there were the parts that made NO sense from either perspective and felt like hasty rewrites and handwaves.

 

It's interesting you say this cause i have been sometimes thinking if the original set up was to have either Lana or Theron to be the traitor (depending if you are rep/imp or dark/lightside or like coffee/tea etc.) but on some budget reasons they ended up doing only one of them. Wether or not it would have been ruse, it could have created the situation where you really are not sure if you are betrayed or not.

[IoNonSoEVero]

The interaction was interesting though, as my JK called her out for letting him get captured to which she replied that my JK was letting her feelings get in the way, which was kinda true, so she calmed down and went with Lana's plan, but my JK still blamed Lana for not telling them what her plan was though.

 

But yeah at that time they were not that close.

Now though she'd not be very happy if Lana is holding back informations and making important decision without even telling her as Lana's supposed to be one of the person my JK trusts the most

 

In Rishi, my characters generally just think it's stupid that Lana and Theron went out on a mission without them, and the line for Sith Warriors is actually like, "it's so stupid you went without me."

 

With the last convo, my Sith Warrior called Lana out too, and forced her to apologize. She did apologize for violating Theron's trust and seemed to be genuinely regretful about that. On the Republic side during the romance convo, she also admits she really screwed things up. With later characters, they've just said "meh, Theron's not your friend, whatever," and have sided with Lana whether they're Republic or Imperial, because they don't care if he lives or dies.

 

Now I do think things would be different Lana's much closer to the PC now and that sort of breach of trust, happening again, would be hard for many PCs to forgive. She's supposed to be their advisor and in a position of trust. So I don't like what they seem to be writing with her at all.

[Kataret]

It's interesting you say this cause i have been sometimes thinking if the original set up was to have either Lana or Theron to be the traitor (depending if you are rep/imp or dark/lightside or like coffee/tea etc.) but on some budget reasons they ended up doing only one of them. Wether or not it would have been ruse, it could have created the situation where you really are not sure if you are betrayed or not.

 

My two cents on this: I'm inclined to agree with AscendingSky that Theron was intended to be a traitor, but only for certain characters. Like, for Lighter characters who spared companions and saved lives and became a peacekeeper, Theron would have been a double-agent and the story would have progressed as it did. But for Dark Side characters who killed companions at every turn and showed no remorse for anyone and became a dictator, then Theron would have actually been a traitor.

 

Not sure what specific choices would have been used to decide whether or not Theron's betrayal was legit. Probably would have more than just one. Such as: the player would have had to kill Senya & Arcann, would have had to bomb the spire, AND would have had to become a dictator. But that's just an example. Point being is I don't think one wrong choice would have turned Theron traitor.

 

Again, this is all speculation on our part. Maybe the way the story played out was always their intention. Impossible to say.

[IoNonSoEVero]

It's interesting you say this cause i have been sometimes thinking if the original set up was to have either Lana or Theron to be the traitor (depending if you are rep/imp or dark/lightside or like coffee/tea etc.) but on some budget reasons they ended up doing only one of them. Wether or not it would have been ruse, it could have created the situation where you really are not sure if you are betrayed or not.

 

There was an older podcast with Charles Boyd where he said something about how he considered having Lana be the traitor, but she's a Sith so it would have been more expected with her. He also said he liked Theron and wanted to give him a story, or something like that. But the way it was executed was very poor, and I still think there were a lot of ways they could have done it that would not have included a (faux) betrayal.

 

It would have been a lot more compelling to have the PC and Alliance actually save Theron from conditioning or blackmail or something. The hypothesis I had for a while, in addition to the conditioning one, was that the Order had threatened Satele and Theron thus felt forced to go along to save her. Which would have made sense especially if he just saw his father die on Iokath.

 

The other hypothesis I remember hearing a lot was that Theron and Lana were in it together, they both knew and were working together to stop the Order. Given the dialogue at the very end of KOTET where Theron and Lana are talking about 'dark forces' rising against the Alliance, that would have made sense. For me personally that would have led to my characters breaking up with Lana - whether or not it was for a good cause, they would have felt those lies crossed a line and they would have been angry that she didn't tell them.

 

But Iokath was certainly ambiguous enough that either of them could have been the traitor, they both conveniently are 'unavailable' when you face Tyth and the throne gets rigged, they both conveniently know about Tyth when you wake up, they both seem very motivated to go to Umbara, etc. For me, it was clear Lana was not involved because of how she reacted on the train, but if they'd written her as a conspirator with Theron I could have bought that too.

[Xenipher]

There was an older podcast with Charles Boyd where he said something about how he considered having Lana be the traitor, but she's a Sith so it would have been more expected with her.

That's ridiculous. Lana is a Sith, yes, but a Sith who has been following me around for years like a puppy no matter how I treat her and a breath away from humping my leg in every scene with her. No. I would not have seen it coming at all.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Xenipher