Why is Bioware so silent on major gear issues from 5.10?

[olagatonjedi]

IMO, any RNG in any game, wether it’s loot boxes or a “gearing feature”, should have the drop percentages made public. There is absolutely no ledgitmate reason to keep the percentages secret if they are doing everything above board.

 

One of the biggest push back since the SW BF2 loot box fiasco is that RNG is a form or gambling. The definition of what constitutes gambling seems to differ between coultures and countries. Beligium for instance has defined paid loot boxes in games as gambling and as such falls under gambling laws. Which means if a game wants to have them in Belgium they need to comply with gambling laws and taxes. One requirement is providing the percentages to “win” when gambling or in our case, what’s the drop rate is to get a piece of gear.

 

The only reason I can see that game Devs don’t want to provide the actual drop percentages is so they can change them when ever they want without informing players to. ie, if they want us to grind more, they will decrease the drop rate. It also means we have no way of ever checking to see if they are telling the truth.

 

People have now opened thousands of tier 3 and 4 crates and not had one 252 piece drop. So Bioware, what’s the actual drop percentage? How about coming clean and having some transparency for once,

Why?

 

If there is concern its not working as intended, they can crunch numbers to see if the %'s are accurate. There is a log trail of everything.

 

If the goal is transparency, then i would ask why transparency is needed. Is it for legitimate concerns, or just so people have another avenue to critiize conjured issues?

 

Im all for transparency, but the main reason for it is generally because there is some belief that foul play is occurring. Swtor is a game where the world and rules are dynamic, and completely controlled by the company, not the players, so unless they are cheating you out of money being paid for the subscription or cartel market items, there is no way that foul play is a part of your swtor experiences.

[Lhancelot]

The Defense stat is way in the diminishing returns and any serious Tank player i know is going for B-lettered DPS or b-lettered Tank modifications (endurance > mastery > power/defense) and for the enhancements which BiS is immunity and sturdious they go for vigilant and bulwark which also have more endurance over shield/absorb. Are you aware of that? Tanks do not need 4700 defense! Well i don't think so or you just don't care.

 

Because when you design a new gear you just add some more points to the already existing gear and it's done, easy going. No one from BW does the math behind the stats or maybe even know what they are for. All though you just had to check the lists the theory crafters did, which are btw community members, they are easy to find just google it. These are the source of any min/max.

 

With 4.0 it's already a pain in the *** to get modifications/enhancements to min/max for Tanks. The 248 modifications/enhancements only drop in T4 crates at a insanely low chance and then it needs to be B-lettered or vigilant/bulwark. Crafting mods/enhancements is only possible in 246 and btw. these are better than the 258 BiS modifications/enhancements for Tanks. It's not even possible to get the 252 or 258 modifications/enhancement we need, they just don't exist. This is ridiculous.

 

This post here explains in great detail just one situation that enrages the more serious players on this game. Players that actually care about stats have long understood to min/max you had to go "off script" and adjust/move around mods to get optimal performance off a toon. The preset mods that BW stuck in never were optimal, ever.

 

The hilarious part of this situation is that they have now locked in mods, making it impossible to adjust your stats around properly, and by relying on RNG (still) to gear up, it's that much more frustrating trying to gear optimally. It appears tanks have it worse, and have had it so probably since 4.0 iirc when they started having to stack HP mods and power instead of defense based mods due to defense being fairly useless by that point.

 

When the community and players understand the stat allocation better than the design team, there's some serious incompetence going on, or a total lack of care AKA apathy running rampant. This is why serious PVPers have mostly left, serious PVE'ers don't play SWTOR while players who prioritize the fact it's Star Wars above all else still remain on this game.

 

This gearing situation epitomizes how the game has been managed particularly over the last few years. As a "founder" who has remained loyal to this game since the beginning, paying a sub even when taking breaks, I finally had to cut my losses and let go.

 

Once I had run through the original chapters a hundred times, making new alts was not cutting it for me. The problem now is for me to stay, I need good, fun gameplay. I need more from EA/BW here if they expect me to remain loyal to them, and they have done nothing but take the money I gave them for 6+ years and wasted it.

 

Lucky for SWTOR, the original chapters alone should keep new players busy for a good year maybe more, but once they forge through that they will find much of the later chapters and development quite inferior and far less engaging. The regressing gear and gameplay which is important to a MMO inevitably will push these players away too.

[olagatonjedi]

As a mainly tank player i take this gearing issue very serious. Since the implementation of the galactic command in 4.0, or even bevor, the tank stats are "broken", i.e. Defense stat.

 

The Defense stat is way in the diminishing returns and any serious Tank player i know is going for B-lettered DPS or b-lettered Tank modifications (endurance > mastery > power/defense) and for the enhancements which BiS is immunity and sturdious they go for vigilant and bulwark which also have more endurance over shield/absorb. Are you aware of that? Tanks do not need 4700 defense! Well i don't think so or you just don't care.

 

Because when you design a new gear you just add some more points to the already existing gear and it's done, easy going. No one from BW does the math behind the stats or maybe even know what they are for. All though you just had to check the lists the theory crafters did, which are btw community members, they are easy to find just google it. These are the source of any min/max.

 

With 4.0 it's already a pain in the *** to get modifications/enhancements to min/max for Tanks. The 248 modifications/enhancements only drop in T4 crates at a insanely low chance and then it needs to be B-lettered or vigilant/bulwark. Crafting mods/enhancements is only possible in 246 and btw. these are better than the 258 BiS modifications/enhancements for Tanks. It's not even possible to get the 252 or 258 modifications/enhancement we need, they just don't exist. This is ridiculous.

 

And that's just aside from the fact that you intended the change for slot restriction on modifications/enhancements which alone is a absolutely stupid change.

 

What are you going to do about the stats, especially for Tanks.

 

I'm a Collectors Edition owning subscriber since launch and i want an answer!

If i had to guess, its probably a balance issue. Dps and heals will always focus on a specific set of gear to maximize output.

 

Tanks are different and have a much wider spectrum, from full blown defensive stats to hybrids to dps optimized "tanks". This creates a huge dilemma when trying to create new content that continues to push tanks and healers to their limit. If they balance for the full defense, then ths required DPS needs to ve adjusted to account for the decreased output by the tanks (of which all 3 classes range widely in dps too). If they balance for the hybrid or max dps tank builds, then the game wont be challenging for actual tanking or healing.

 

Gear needs to be one way ir another, so the content can be one way or the other.

 

In a crazy world, imagine if many of the dps and healers started to run with defense mods instead if power, and the content was too difficult to complete, BW would either adjust the dps requirements, or force their players to gear properly as their class intended.

 

Tanks were likely never meant to use power-based mods or dps builds, and this current dev regime appears to be bringing that to lite. Toons can still be min/maxed, but not to the game-imbalancing extent that it has been able for the past 7 years.

 

It doesnt mean it will go over well with all players, but there is likely something bigger at play than just making some players happy.

Edited January 3, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Khevar]

In a crazy world, imagine if many of the dps and healers started to run with defense mods instead if power, and the content was too difficult to complete, BW would either adjust the dps requirements, or force their players to gear properly as their class intended.

Or the players who were having troubles with the content would learn a better gearing strategy, drop the defensive stats, and put correct mods in their gear?

 

 

Not to mention that "as their class intended" in the confines of the current theorycrafting is extremely simple. Too much accuracy is not as good as any other tertiary stat. Hitting the 1.4 GCD alacrity target exactly or the 1.3 GCD alacrity target is better than wasted alacrity. The latest tier of augments + stim allows one to hit 99.99% accuracy against raid bosses. Defense is well beyond diminishing returns and doesn't mitigate damage as well as more shield / absorb.

 

To repeat: We are in an era of the least complex theorycrafted "BiS targets" in this game's history.

 

Bioware isn't trying to "force players to gear properly", or they would have a better distribution of enhancements, and would have different mods on tank gear.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Khevar

[Rion_Starkiller]

Why?

 

If there is concern its not working as intended, they can crunch numbers to see if the %'s are accurate. There is a log trail of everything.

 

If the goal is transparency, then i would ask why transparency is needed. Is it for legitimate concerns, or just so people have another avenue to critiize conjured issues?

 

Im all for transparency, but the main reason for it is generally because there is some belief that foul play is occurring. Swtor is a game where the world and rules are dynamic, and completely controlled by the company, not the players, so unless they are cheating you out of money being paid for the subscription or cartel market items, there is no way that foul play is a part of your swtor experiences.

 

I think the disconnect here is that to players, effort = money. So if they go through the effort to obtain a crate, they want to know the percentages. This isn't the way business works though. Effort means nothing if it doesn't make money.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[olagatonjedi]

Or the players who were having troubles with the content would learn a better gearing strategy, drop the defensive stats, and put correct mods in their gear?

Who is to say hybrid/dps tanks arent doing it wrong and need to change their ways? It can be applied to both.

 

Not to mention that "as their class intended" in the confines of the current theorycrafting is extremely simple. Too much accuracy is not as good as any other tertiary stat. Hitting the 1.4 GCD alacrity target exactly or the 1.3 GCD alacrity target is better than wasted alacrity. The latest tier of augments + stim allows one to hit 99.99% accuracy against raid bosses. Defense is well beyond diminishing returns and doesn't mitigate damage as well as more shield / absorb.

 

To repeat: We are in an era of the least complex theorycrafted "BiS targets" in this game's history.

 

Bioware isn't trying to "force players to gear properly", or they would have a better distribution of enhancements, and would have different mods on tank gear.

It isnt a matter of hitting diminishing returns, per se. Its a matter of balance and how to keep structure when introducing new content. With a supposed level increase on the horizon, the soft DR for defense will change too. Perhaps its preparation for that. We dont know.

 

And they didnt know how tanks would be gearing until these changes were made. I have 3 tanks geared with dps mods, and 3 tanks with defense mods. There was no set standard that BW can bank on players to gear their tanks in the past, at least not as much as they could predict healing and dps classes would gear. So locking mods and enhancements forces the system to be more predictable for future content creation, but still offers flexibility with augs, with a smaller spectrum of variability.

Edited January 3, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Batwer]

I think the disconnect here is that to players, effort = money. So if they go through the effort to obtain a crate, they want to know the percentages. This isn't the way business works though. Effort means nothing if it doesn't make money.

The percentages do not interest me. I think it would be nice if sometimes a 252 part falls. But not only after opening the 1000th box. Stood with me 500 = 0, thanks for nothing.

[olagatonjedi]

I think the disconnect here is that to players, effort = money. So if they go through the effort to obtain a crate, they want to know the percentages. This isn't the way business works though. Effort means nothing if it doesn't make money.

That sounds like a misconception of how crates work. Crates arent a quest that guarantees you a specific reward upon completion. Crates are a side bonus of nearly anything you choose to do with your time. If people make crate-farming their primary objective, all they need to know is that its a low random chance to get what you want. Whether that "low chance" is 1% or 5% is inconsequential.

[Khevar]

Who is to say hybrid/dps tanks arent doing it wrong and need to change their ways? It can be applied to both.

The example you gave as a justification for Bioware "forcing" players to gear correctly was this:

In a crazy world, imagine if many of the dps and healers started to run with defense mods instead if power, and the content was too difficult to complete, BW would either adjust the dps requirements, or force their players to gear properly as their class intended.

Don't mix your arguments.

 

If a dps or healer were stacking defense AND WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE CONTENT, the solution is for the players to learn how stats work in the game and re-mod their gear correctly, thereby making the content easier. This doesn't require Bioware to retune content, and it doesn't require Bioware to "force" correct gearing.

 

Any dps/healer that chooses to ignore "correct" gearing and continue to stack defense will have trouble with higher tiers of content. This is a side effect of the player not understanding how the game works and requires absolutely no effort on Bioware's part to address.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Khevar

[olagatonjedi]

The example you gave as a justification for Bioware "forcing" players to gear correctly was this:

 

Don't mix your arguments.

 

If a dps or healer were stacking defense AND WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE CONTENT, the solution is for the players to learn how stats work in the game and re-mod their gear correctly, thereby making the content easier. This doesn't require Bioware to retune content, and it doesn't require Bioware to "force" correct gearing.

 

Any dps/healer that chooses to ignore "correct" gearing and continue to stack defense will have trouble with higher tiers of content. This is a side effect of the player not understanding how the game works and requires absolutely no effort on Bioware's part to address.

Many properly geared raid groups had, and still have, trouble with the dps checks for HM and NIM content, which, in part, prompted many tanks to start gearing for added dps instead of defense. I know because i was one of the first that started doing it at the time. Hybrid tanking has been a past-time in MMOs for years, so much as you can get away with it.

Edited January 3, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Khevar]

Many properly geared raid groups had, and still have, trouble with the dps checks for HM and NIM content, which, in part, prompted many tanks to start gearing for added dps instead of defense. I know because i was one of the first that started doing it at the time. Hybrid tanking has been a past-time in MMOs for years, so much as you can get away with it.

Seeing as how you've ducked my response to your "dps and healers wearing defense" argument twice now, I'm going to assume you realize it was a poor argument, you were wrong, but don't want to admit it.

 

Now as far as your other argument on hybrid tanks.

 

Tank gear has had a very high amount of defense for quite some time now. Far up enough the curve of diminishing returns that the extra defense is not very effective at improving mitigation. This means the tank has wasted stat budget that they could more effectively spend on:

 

1. Endurance to handle hard hitting attacks (B mods).

2. Power to help hold threat over players doing massive single target dps.

3. Power to help kill bosses faster.

 

The default 258 tank stat budget allocation asks players to either waste stats on more defense that isn't helpful, stick with an earlier tier of gear that affords more customization, or spend significantly more time grinding gear for other specs for the legacy swap.

 

None of these three options is much fun for any of the tank players I know (which includes myself, by the way).

 

We've always had a dearth of tanks in this game. It certainly isn't helping when the newly added gear grind is even worse for tanks than it is for dps/heals.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Khevar

[olagatonjedi]

Seeing as how you've ducked my response to your "dps and healers wearing defense" argument twice now, I'm going to assume you realize it was a poor argument, you were wrong, but don't want to admit it.

I dont recall ducking anything. Ive already said what needed to be said, and applied it. Its no different than tanks wearing gear not intended for them. BW can change whatever they want, and i can see this reason as an appropriate one.

 

Now as far as your other argument on hybrid tanks.

 

Tank gear has had a very high amount of defense for quite some time now. Far up enough the curve of diminishing returns that the extra defense is not very effective at improving mitigation. This means the tank has wasted stat budget that they could more effectively spend on:

 

1. Endurance to handle hard hitting attacks (B mods).

2. Power to help hold threat over players doing massive single target dps.

3. Power to help kill bosses faster.

 

The default 258 tank stat budget allocation asks players to either waste stats on more defense that isn't helpful, stick with an earlier tier of gear that affords more customization, or spend significantly more time grinding gear for other specs for the legacy swap.

 

None of these three options is much fun for any of the tank players I know (which includes myself, by the way).

 

We've always had a dearth of tanks in this game. It certainly isn't helping when the newly added gear grind is even worse for tanks than it is for dps/heals.

As ive already said, changes to the game arent always meant for the here and the now. Change can be made to evaluate the need, the trend of players, and for application in future content. For all we know, defense will be an important tanking stat in 6.x. And collecting real time data from forcing more layers to utilize it can help give them ideas of how to create new ops or fps that will utilize those stats.

 

Besides, if you truly want to customize ur tank, you can still use lower ilevel mods and enhancements, as has recurrently been the case after each expansion drops. When 5.0 came out, the 248 high end enhancement was not immediately made available. After a future update, it currently is. Same happened in 4.x. this is nothing new, and doesnt prevent tanks from distributing their stats entirely.

 

As the game is re-evaluated and changed, so must your evaluation and expectations of the game. Thats the nature of dynamic mmos. Every patch, every expansion can completely change things around to create additional progression.

[LordDarrack]

Every patch, every expansion can completely BREAK things around to create additional GRIND.

 

There just corrected it for you as im sure you saw your error

 

Be safe

[olagatonjedi]

There just corrected it for you as im sure you saw your error

 

Be safe

Alternate interpretation: Every patch can fix imbalance in the game to keep people playing longer.

 

Depends who you ask which one they believe, but neither is the sole wrong or right version.

[DawnAskham]

I dont recall ducking anything. Ive already said what needed to be said, and applied it. Its no different than tanks wearing gear not intended for them. BW can change whatever they want, and i can see this reason as an appropriate one.

 

 

As ive already said, changes to the game arent always meant for the here and the now. Change can be made to evaluate the need, the trend of players, and for application in future content. For all we know, defense will be an important tanking stat in 6.x. And collecting real time data from forcing more layers to utilize it can help give them ideas of how to create new ops or fps that will utilize those stats.

 

Besides, if you truly want to customize ur tank, you can still use lower ilevel mods and enhancements, as has recurrently been the case after each expansion drops. When 5.0 came out, the 248 high end enhancement was not immediately made available. After a future update, it currently is. Same happened in 4.x. this is nothing new, and doesnt prevent tanks from distributing their stats entirely.

 

As the game is re-evaluated and changed, so must your evaluation and expectations of the game. Thats the nature of dynamic mmos. Every patch, every expansion can completely change things around to create additional progression.

 

Excusing the mess of tank gearing with a comment about how maybe, just maybe, Bioware will change the way tank stats work in some future update to make the current gear optimal is silly.

 

Players play the game as it exists today - not as it may exist in the future.

 

Oh and while many MMOs are highly dynamic with ongoing changes that impact the meta of gearing, SWTOR isn't one of them. They last made major changes to stats, weighting and itemization back in 4.0 - years ago.

[Yamahara]

Why do I get the feeling as a Pvp'er, that I'm finally going to get full 258 and they will be like: "PvP gear/comms returning for 6.0!" I will be super pissed, the grind for the new gear is way worse than the component grind for 248. I don't see the logic behind locking the enhancements per gear slot, it makes absolutely no sense. We have a setup for pvp and the way they locked it totally screws that up.

[olagatonjedi]

Excusing the mess of tank gearing with a comment about how maybe, just maybe, Bioware will change the way tank stats work in some future update to make the current gear optimal is silly.

 

Players play the game as it exists today - not as it may exist in the future.

Yes, players play the game as it currently is, but most developers have a bigger plan in mind when tyry start setting the foundation, which is a lot of whst the current dev team has done over the past couple yesrs with rebalsncing, loot system changes, conquest, etc. Out with the old ways and in with the new.

[TrixxieTriss]

They are baaaaack!!!! And they are still silent. http://www.cfs-aktuell.de/ostrich.jpg

 

Very apt analogy. I’ve often used the same one to describe their silence

[TrixxieTriss]

Why?

 

If there is concern its not working as intended, they can crunch numbers to see if the %'s are accurate. There is a log trail of everything.

 

If the goal is transparency, then i would ask why transparency is needed. Is it for legitimate concerns, or just so people have another avenue to critiize conjured issues?

 

Im all for transparency, but the main reason for it is generally because there is some belief that foul play is occurring. Swtor is a game where the world and rules are dynamic, and completely controlled by the company, not the players, so unless they are cheating you out of money being paid for the subscription or cartel market items, there is no way that foul play is a part of your swtor experiences.

 

You asking “why” is superfluous because it’s my opinion and I gave my reasons, you do not have to agree with them.

So I’m not even sure why you responded to my post except to be argumentative.

If you don’t agree that’s fine. Just remember disagreeing with me doesn’t make you right or me wrong. It just means my point of view and opinion is different to yours.

I actually really don’t care what you think to be honest because it’s usually wrong and 180 degrees opposite to 99% of posters. Which says to me that you are trolling most of the time otherwise you wouldnt bait and report so much

Edited January 4, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[olagatonjedi]

You asking “why” is superfluous because it’s my opinion and I gave my reasons, you do not have to agree with them.

So I’m not even sure why you responded to my post except to be argumentative.

If you don’t agree that’s fine. Just remember disagreeing with me doesn’t make you right or me wrong. It just means my point of view and opinion is different to yours.

I actually really don’t care what you think to be honest because it’s usually wrong and 180 degrees opposite to 99% of posters. Which says to me that you are trolling most of the time otherwise you wouldnt bait and report so much

Disagreeing doesnt mean someone is trolling. And diaagreeing doesnt mean i "know" im right. Ive never claimed to be right about anything that i wasnt knowledgable of and did the backgriund work. I do, however, consider possible reasons why things may or may not be done. To diamiss possibility entirely would be naive and ignorant. Perhaps you dont read my posts as closely as you think you do before responding. Its a shame because the goal is enlightenment for the community, not to prove im right, wrong, or to be argumentative (despite what many believe).

[NuSeC]

You asking “why” is superfluous because it’s my opinion and I gave my reasons, you do not have to agree with them.

So I’m not even sure why you responded to my post except to be argumentative.

If you don’t agree that’s fine. Just remember disagreeing with me doesn’t make you right or me wrong. It just means my point of view and opinion is different to yours.

I actually really don’t care what you think to be honest because it’s usually wrong and 180 degrees opposite to 99% of posters. Which says to me that you are trolling most of the time otherwise you wouldnt bait and report so much

 

As accurate of a post as anyone on here has had. You have described them perfectly.

[Lhancelot]

As accurate of a post as anyone on here has had. You have described them perfectly.

 

That was a very succinct response on Trixxie's part, I got to admit lol. I got great amusement reading that one. As someone already mentioned earlier, "forum PVP." rofl

[olagatonjedi]

As accurate of a post as anyone on here has had. You have described them perfectly.

Thanks!

[Lhancelot]

Thanks!

 

Olag, Trixxie pulled an Olag on you.

[olagatonjedi]

Olag, Trixxie pulled an Olag on you.

Not sure what that means.