The Kira return thread

[Asmodesu]

I think Theron recognises two returning companions. Aric, and Kaliyo (mentions them being part of the crew if with the corresponding class) I was rather confused they didn't recognise any others however... it's obvious they both had dossiers, and files and everything on everything to do with the player-characters, whatever their class.

[Nefla]

It doesn't matter what way they return non-Lana companion #36 and non-Lana companion #17, they are not Lana and therefore will get no screen time after their return regardless of if they are returned in a cheap 2 minute alert or a 2 hour recruitment chapter.

[Lium]

It doesn't matter what way they return non-Lana companion #36 and non-Lana companion #17, they are not Lana and therefore will get no screen time after their return regardless of if they are returned in a cheap 2 minute alert or a 2 hour recruitment chapter.

Unfortunately, this.

 

Companions aren't going to be part of any new story content going forward. They actually haven't been since the end of your class story. You could have your LI standing right next to you while you openly flirted with Lana or Theron during SOR and they wouldn't react. Same thing on Makeb.

 

This is one of those things that BW probably wished they could have done differently. Companions were a great concept on paper, but a total pain to manage in any content beyond the initial three-chapter class story. Even if BW had a full staff and a very large budget to work with on this game, it would still be a ton of work.

 

In hindsight, they probably wouldn't have had companions at all.

[denavin]

Charles said the bad word.... "Chapter"

 

Well I say yes make Kira and Scourge's return a "Chapter"... There I said the "C" word.

But I think most people want it too. They want their return to be meaning full, to have a story, to tell us about what they have been up to and why. Not a simple... " Hi, How Have you Been. Oh Great Lets GO." and done. NO!

 

So Yes

Make It A Chapter......

[IoNonSoEVero]

Charles said the bad word.... "Chapter"

 

Well I say yes make Kira and Scourge's return a "Chapter"... There I said the "C" word.

But I think most people want it too. They want their return to be meaning full, to have a story, to tell us about what they have been up to and why. Not a simple... " Hi, How Have you Been. Oh Great Lets GO." and done. NO!

 

So Yes

Make It A Chapter......

 

Kira and Scourge would make the most sense to get a chapter. Whatever they've been up to, it might be something the Commander could be involved in now.

[OldVengeance]

The Nadia and Jaesa seemingly not recognizing Lana was annoying. But it's possible the scenes were written to sound ambiguous about whether they had met before. Maybe that was their way of trying to account for a situation where your companions could have been with you for the whole of the Forged Alliance/Shadow of Revan arc, or they could have stayed on the ship the whole time.

 

You can kind of sort of possibly interpret both Jaesa and Nadia's lines about Lana as being about someone they sort of met onetime, but don't know well.

 

Nadia knows Lana is a Sith, but she hasn't been spending the last few years getting to know her well. And Jaesa knows Lana by name, and also they she's "famous" for some reason. It's possible she's heard about her being called a traitor to the Empire and has just now met her. It could theoretically also be that Jaesa says "So that's the famous Lana Beniko" because even though she was in the same room with her a few times, it wasn't until Iokath that they actually dueled eachother.

[VanderII]

I hope Kira returne will be epic. I prefer wating to heve something spettacular:cool:

[SithKoriandr]

Kira could be the first companion they retroactively add in a F/F romance with in the vanilla story and then make a an awesome planet storyline long return for her. *nod nod*

[Drenovade]

It's been so long at this point, I'd rather wait a little longer to have the return feel important and significant to the story. Edited December 24, 2018 by Drenovade

[OldVengeance]

 

In terms of story I do wonder if Kira's come around to working with Sith because she seems to have teamed up with Scourge, but I do worry that she would refuse to go with an Imperial-siding JK.

 

Well, I think she should refuse. Kira's one of the few people who has seen the horrors of the Empire from within and without. She hates Sith. She certainly has been willing to team up with some of them against a greater threat, like Vitiate or the Eternal Empire, but helping a Sith aligned character to fight the Republic? Never. She was always very clear about that. I think I'd go as far as to say that perhaps the only character for whom it would make less sense to willingly side with the Empire is M1-4X.

 

Scourge is also someone she knows personally, and can at least trust that his motives are to defeat the Sith Emperor. He also joined them by defecting from the Empire, not the other way around.

 

One of the things I've noticed is that they do seem to be continuing the trend of certain characters being unromancable if you make certain decision, like they did with Elara. I saw a video which revealed you can't romance LS Jaesa if you kill Gnost-Dural. If they are willing to do that, but let Kira fight for the Empire despite everything she's seen in her life, that would be a major failure in writing her character, in my opinion.

 

Kira could be the first companion they retroactively add in a F/F romance with in the vanilla story and then make a an awesome planet storyline long return for her. *nod nod*

 

I really really don't think they would or should change the vanilla storyline. Kira's romance is actually one of the few that would require the most additional dialogue too. She has this thing where she calls the Knight "tough guy."

 

I was actually wondering if that very fact might even make them choose to leave her romantic availability as it is when she returns. They don't usually include a lot of alternate versions of romance dialogue, and it would be sad if Kira suddenly stopped using her affectionate nicknames for her old husband so Bioware could accommodate any new romancers.

 

Although, I suppose we could hope for a little more variation in romance content for the future after Jaesa and Nadia returned with a little variation, but I'm hesitant to get too optimistic there.

[SithKoriandr]

I really really don't think they would or should change the vanilla storyline. Kira's romance is actually one of the few that would require the most additional dialogue too. She has this thing where she calls the Knight "tough guy."

 

I was actually wondering if that very fact might even make them choose to leave her romantic availability as it is when she returns. They don't usually include a lot of alternate versions of romance dialogue, and it would be sad if Kira suddenly stopped using her affectionate nicknames for her old husband so Bioware could accommodate any new romancers.

 

Although, I suppose we could hope for a little more variation in romance content for the future after Jaesa and Nadia returned with a little variation, but I'm hesitant to get too optimistic there.

 

I agree on the failure of the writers on the part of any companion who stays with a commander that they shouldn't.

 

The sad part is, a lot more of the Empire ones could easily stay with the Republic while the reverse isn't true, which would just make some players upset.

 

As for Kira, I'm only guessing that they'll make her F/F accessible with her return and if they did that, would be a good time to update some vanilla content, which I'm sure would make players happy.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I agree on the failure of the writers on the part of any companion who stays with a commander that they shouldn't.

 

The sad part is, a lot more of the Empire ones could easily stay with the Republic while the reverse isn't true, which would just make some players upset.

 

I actually thought the opposite. In looking at the letters from both sides, it seems like there are a few Imperials who leave outright with no vagueness (Quinn and Talos saying they're going back to the Empire, for instance) and the other Imperial companions who write letters aren't exactly "yay, Republic." Vette says in her KOTET letter that she has the commander's back forever for saving her, and her letter seems to reiterate that.

 

But on the other side, even the most staunch supporters of the Republic (Rusk and Jorgan) say that they will stay with an Imperial commander, as long as they aren't directly forced to fight the Republic. The only one who seems to leave outright is Yuun.

Edited December 22, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[SithKoriandr]

I actually thought the opposite. In looking at the letters from both sides, it seems like there are a few Imperials who leave outright with no vagueness (Quinn and Talos saying they're going back to the Empire, for instance) and the other Imperial companions who write letters aren't exactly "yay, Republic." Vette says in her KOTET letter that she has the commander's back forever for saving her, and her letter seems to reiterate that.

 

But on the other side, even the most staunch supporters of the Republic (Rusk and Jorgan) say that they will stay with an Imperial commander, as long as they aren't directly forced to fight the Republic.

 

I can totally see Vette staying with the Warrior who isn't DSV (though DSV would also assume they left the collar on), why would Vette ever stay with a Warrior who kept the collar on?

 

I can see Vette staying with a LS Imperial but see her staying with Reps as well.

 

I can't see Rusk or Jorgan siding with anyone who decides to side with the Empire. An Imperial who sides with the Republic, sure.

[OldVengeance]

I'm still trying to find all the letters. My hope is that the letters are just foreshadowing future events with those companions, rather than just being the last we'll hear from them. Both sides have characters that I might not have expected to stick with the Alliance, but several of them also seem to suggest their loyalty is conditional.

 

So far as I've been able to determine:

 

Yuun, and Qyzen leave the Imperial Alliance. And Talos and Quinn leave the Republic Alliance.

 

i'm still trying to find examples of Elara's response.

Edited December 22, 2018 by OldVengeance

[IoNonSoEVero]

I can totally see Vette staying with the Warrior who isn't DSV (though DSV would also assume they left the collar on), why would Vette ever stay with a Warrior who kept the collar on?

 

I can see Vette staying with a LS Imperial but see her staying with Reps as well.

 

I can't see Rusk or Jorgan siding with anyone who decides to side with the Empire. An Imperial who sides with the Republic, sure.

 

Rusk and Jorgan do, though. And one of them (Rusk I think) makes an excellent point that whatever the Commander does, they once saved the lives of everyone in the Republic.

 

IMHO it's going to be based more on actions and not pure faction choice. If it's a commander who chooses to irrationally bomb Republic civilians, I think the Republic characters might exit. If it's a more balanced, maybe no, because maybe by now some of them have figured out how corrupt and flawed the Republic is, too.

 

I do think they laid the groundwork for Theron to leave because he does not like it if you kill Gnost-Dural.

Edited December 22, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[OldVengeance]

I think the other thing to keep in mind is that the companions who have already returned have the experience of fighting for the Alliance up until this point. They were around to witness the Outlander and the Alliance save the galaxy when the Republic and Empire could not.

 

Newer returning companions might not have that same experience and sense of loyalty to the Alliance.

[SithKoriandr]

Rusk and Jorgan do, though. And one of them (Rusk I think) makes an excellent point that whatever the Commander does, they once saved the lives of everyone in the Republic.

 

IMHO it's going to be based more on actions and not pure faction choice. If it's a commander who chooses to irrationally bomb Republic civilians, I think the Republic characters might exit. If it's a more balanced, maybe no, because maybe by now some of them have figured out how corrupt and flawed the Republic is, too.

 

I do think they laid the groundwork for Theron to leave because he does not like it if you kill Gnost-Dural.

 

I can't imagine him liking anyone killing Jedi. He may have mother issues, but he seems rather pro Jedi.

[OldVengeance]

So I wanted to update this thread because the subject of Kira and Scourge came up again in the recent interview Charles and Eric did.

 

Charles was asked whether that Kira and Scourge would return as a major part of the story or just an Alliance Alert.

 

He said that he's still working on it, so things could still change, but probably an Alliance Alert. His reasoning was that his idea for their return or what they've been doing since we last saw them is something that works better as a Alliance Alert for the Jedi Knight.

 

He also said it's hard to make sense of Kira ever joining up with a Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor. And Scourge might join up with a Warrior, but it would be less likely for someone like a Smuggler.

 

He did say, however that he is aware that some players want them to return for all characters.

 

He did also say that although his idea was for them to return together and be involved in the same story, it theoretically might make more sense for them to return separately because they are such different characters. "They do have different tolerances levels for morality" was his exact way of putting it.

 

It's obviously hard to comment on his plans for their return without knowing what they are, but it's hard to argue with the logic that they do have a story that is closely tied to the Jedi Knight.

 

And he's right that it makes absolutely no sense for Kira to ever work for a Sith, especially now that the threat of Valkorion and the Eternal Empire is gone, and the story is returning to the Empire vs Republic conflict.

 

The problem is that I think most people (including myself) wanted them to have a bigger role than not, which probably wouldn't be satisfied with just an Alliance Alert.

 

And in terms of returning for all players or just some, well, I don't think I'd ever want to see Kira betray all her principles and work for the Empire. And Scourge would probably have less moral objections to switching factions, but it's still hard to imagine him continuing to work with the Republic and Jedi after Vitiate's final defeat.

 

If they were to go the route of making them available to more than just the Knight, I think maybe the best way to go about doing that would be to make Kira available to the Republic Alliance Commanders, and Scourge available to Imperial Alliance Commanders, with the Jedi Knight being the only one who can get them both to return. I would have sort of expected Kira and Scourge to part ways after their work is done anyway.

 

And if they are going to make it an Alliance Alert, hopefully it would be a longer more meaningful one that the standard short appearances that have characterized most of the Alliance Alerts up till now.

[OlBuzzard]

Kira and Scourge should've been in KOTFE/ET. Their entire backstories are about the Emperor, and the main character for both KOTFE and KOTET was clearly meant to be the JK.

 

Their stories alone warrant a bigger return than any other companions in the game. BW has to explain where they've been all this time and why, specifically, they weren't there when you confronted Valkorion. They HAVE to. That's just Storytelling 101.

 

I appreciate them listening to players who want them back quicker, but the way those characters have been written dictates a reunion with much more weight behind it. A 1-minute cutscene will not suffice. Not even close.

 

Nailed it !!

 

IMHO .. better companion interaction through out the game would be nice. Not just a brief cutscene from time to time (usually with the same theme). Some of it could be a bit more light hearted from time to time.

The dev team does a great job with cinematics. I really hope that ALL of the favorite companions get a big reception.

 

That said: hopefully with some of the new (combined) companions we might also have the option of starting fresh with a great new story to go with each of our toons.

(yeah ... I know. That's probably streatching it a bit )

:D:D

Edited March 22, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[Joluka]

JUST MAKE IT GOOD, TAKE AS LONG AS YOU NEED TO.

 

Sorry for caps, but after years of Blizzard not listening to players in WoW, I have PTSD.

[BelorfinSiana]

You know what's ridiculous? Giving

SCORPIO

a major role in KOTFE/KOTET while Kira and Scourge have nothing to do with Volkorian.

[BlueWanderer]

I still think Kira moved on with some other guy and settled down with kids and a minivan.

You abandoned her and she isn't ready to forgive you.

[stuffystuffs]

 

The problem is that I think most people (including myself) wanted them to have a bigger role than not, which probably wouldn't be satisfied with just an Alliance Alert.

 

And in terms of returning for all players or just some, well, I don't think I'd ever want to see Kira betray all her principles and work for the Empire. And Scourge would probably have less moral objections to switching factions, but it's still hard to imagine him continuing to work with the Republic and Jedi after Vitiate's final defeat.

 

If they were to go the route of making them available to more than just the Knight, I think maybe the best way to go about doing that would be to make Kira available to the Republic Alliance Commanders, and Scourge available to Imperial Alliance Commanders, with the Jedi Knight being the only one who can get them both to return. I would have sort of expected Kira and Scourge to part ways after their work is done anyway.

 

And if they are going to make it an Alliance Alert, hopefully it would be a longer more meaningful one that the standard short appearances that have characterized most of the Alliance Alerts up till now.

 

I also want Kira for more than just my JK, since she's one of my faves. I think it may make more sense if they base her availability on the current faction you support instead of the faction you originated from. I don't think Kira would join a Republic Alliance Commander who secretly supports the Sith Empire, this probably includes even the JK. And she would know your true allegiance (most everyone else in the Alliance does).

 

So, the criteria I had in mind would be currently Republic allied. If it's the case Kira wouldn't work with a Sith, even if they're helping the Republic, then maybe the criteria should be Republic hero who is a current ally of the Republic.

 

But yeah, I had hoped more than just the JK can get Kira, considering all Alliance commanders had a "special" relationship with our dearly departed pal Vitiate/Valkorian/Tenebrae/etc., and she understands that.

[commanderwar]

I agree with Charles I don't want kira or scourge to give up what they believe in so players can have them on all characters. I want them stay true to their beliefs that's why I like Elera reunion (kind of) because she didn't betray her beliefs, she called you out for the DS choices you did or joining the empire. I don't believe scourge would join a smuggler, a consular or a trooper, but a Jedi knight I can believe in because you can argue after chapter 3 he began to like the knight as a friend (at the end of chapter 3 he says he would only stay until he knew the emperor was dead).

 

Same goes for Kira, she would go back to the jedi or the republic rather than BH, trooper, sith warrior, smuggler...ect. I only believe she would join for the knight

Edited March 22, 2019 by commanderwar

[Estelindis]

With the greatest of respect for the writers, it is inconceivable to me that they'd still be trying to work out the shapes of the return stories literal years after they originally took the characters away. I appreciate that their imagined story may need to have changed due to the original 16x3 chapters plan having been massively curtailed, but can it have changed so much that it can't be reshaped in a new context? It's so hard for me to understand taking characters away without already having a good sense of how they should return.

 

In terms of people wanting certain companions available for all characters, I think a strong case can be made for returning each companion in the manner most appropriate for them in the canon story, and then, in cases where a companion only came back for their original class via alliance alert, separately making them available to everyone in a 100% non-canon fashion via the Odessen terminal.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Estelindis