ipoopedonu Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Tyth and A&E 16m | <Failure> Team REEEbounders | Imperial | Satele Shan https://i.gyazo.com/ad3a8f7c6beb0555b382b8d29c5029a4.jpg https://i.gyazo.com/7719e05a13cf2e784fef403b861b1515.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAT_EPIC_GUY Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) ''Kill validity I want to include some way to keep an aspect of true progression and avoid board clutter and some potential dramas. As such I have decided that for a kill to be considered valid to claim a MINIMUM of 5 out of 8 raid members (10/16 in 16m) must gain their achievement in the kill being claimed. The purpose of this is to stop teams which are filled with players who have cleared the encounter in different teams from claiming progression ranked kills. As such some teams may need to provide multiple screenshots if there aren't enough members from a singular guild.'' It doesn't make sense, why Team Amethyst is 5/5 gods, since they had only one legit kill which is Izax. If you made some rules, I don't get it why you are just simply breaking it. Although congratz for your Izax kill I've included this team because I explained the circumstances to them when they initially claimed kills, including a post within this very forum thread. When they did claim their Izax clear, they were able to provide me with evidence of clears of all prior bosses with all 5 of their unique members hence why I gave them credit for all bosses. To clarify; -This is a team with 5 unique members. -Their original kill claims involved various subs/fillins hence why I did not include them -Their Izax kill had 5 unique members -At the time of their Izax posting they were able to provide me with evidence of kills of all 4 prior bosses with their 5 unique members Hence I have included them. Is there anything else you would like explained? Edited March 2, 2019 by THAT_EPIC_GUY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexIonutPlay Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) Ok, then post screenshot with the 5th person that got achievement with them, why isn't this evidence public? Edited March 2, 2019 by AlexIonutPlay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czartorysky Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Gods from the Machine Nightmare Progression Board ... Posting Rules - Achievements from the raid members(A majority of the raid should be getting new achievements for a valid kill. This may require multiple screenshots for multi-guild clears, providing an initial one and extras later is fine). ... Archived original discussion post ... Kill validity I want to include some way to keep an aspect of true progression and avoid board clutter and some potential dramas. As such I have decided that for a kill to be considered valid to claim a MINIMUM of 5 out of 8 raid members (10/16 in 16m) must gain their achievement in the kill being claimed. The purpose of this is to stop teams which are filled with players who have cleared the encounter in different teams from claiming progression ranked kills. ... I thought the wording of these rules was pretty clear. Apparently it wasn't, and there is a lot of wiggle room and clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srtaskyywalker Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) For our last team member, here are the kills date: https://gyazo.com/4d7e0177b8d3592c9e57e4b4299f8d66 https://gyazo.com/b66e85c2039105582f3cdb529392cac8 For Nahut, we even have a video since we streamed it and he missed our first kill: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/387112047 Edited March 2, 2019 by srtaskyywalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAT_EPIC_GUY Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) I thought the wording of these rules was pretty clear. Apparently it wasn't, and there is a lot of wiggle room and clutter. Again; I've already made a response to you, none of which you have addressed. Can you please clarify which kill claim you have an issue with for this team? As I said their original claims of Nahut and Scyva were not considered since they utilised subs who had already cleared. However, by the time of their Izax posting they had shown kills of all bosses involving a full set of 5 independent members. I did take a hard stance on this matter with this team and since then they took measures to comply and I don't see what warrants their exclusion now. Edited March 3, 2019 by THAT_EPIC_GUY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCognusSion Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 <Failure> Group Sapphire- Nahut 1st Kill Forgot to take it at Nahut's body. Here is the screenshot. If you need, i'll have the video uploaded in a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auroroavalor Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 <Failure> Group Sapphire- Nahut 1st Kill Forgot to take it at Nahut's body. Here is the screenshot. If you need, i'll have the video uploaded in a day or two. Does this mean Kal's apac team can stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellRichter Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Does this mean Kal's apac team can stop? Surprised Pikachu face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoHito Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Better now Scyva https://gyazo.com/f86e7c3bacc6a74c4233c0658bd9b71c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadimkat Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Can you please clarify which kill claim you have an issue with for this team? The issue is that none of their "claim kills" feature the achievement pop of a majority of the group (apart from Izax), as you yourself set the rules to. By your new logic, we can rotate 5 new people all 5 bosses kills and call them a new team. Progression is meant to be done as a group, and as you yourself put it, having people that already killed the bosses shouldn't stack the board on multiple teams. Jaydenz providing a random achievement picture proves just this fact, that the board is being stacked, cluttered with teams formed from people with previous experience on the boss, and people without. Don't get me wrong, I do not have an issue with them being on the board, I have an issue with the position you placed them into, considering they only have 3/5 claimable kills (and even those 3 are fishy, but I guess achievement pop is achievement pop, server not withstanding). These are my issues with you posting them there, the fact that you add 2 claim kills, when you do not have 5 new achievements popping on same kill, as per your rules. https://gyazo.com/fa00732191b7a6d17c9a812add24f89c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellRichter Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Going through all the SS links for each team, there are a number pictures that don't show 5 achievement pops. Even 2nd Izax kill only shows 2 achieves. But you all keep cherry picking one team to direct these criticisms toward, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragoshNashu Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Going through all the SS links for each team, there are a number pictures that don't show 5 achievement pops. Even 2nd Izax kill only shows 2 achieves. But you all keep cherry picking one team to direct these criticisms toward, why? So you doubt all 8 people got Izax achievement in our izax kill? CoolStoryBob And I don't think they are cherry picking a team, they are casting doubt for a team that Mac already refused to acknowledge 2 kills for. How they magically managed to get 5 achievements pop on same kill, after majority of group already having killed the bosses previously is beyond me. But hey, stranger things have happened. If you ask me, it's just board clutter, but then again, game is dying so maybe some board clutter is nice to keep up pretenses, though the position they are in isn't fair for the groups that fully progress on the bosses. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) So you doubt all 8 people got Izax achievement in our izax kill? CoolStoryBob And I don't think they are cherry picking a team, they are casting doubt for a team that Mac already refused to acknowledge 2 kills for. How they magically managed to get 5 achievements pop on same kill, after majority of group already having killed the bosses previously is beyond me. But hey, stranger things have happened. If you ask me, it's just board clutter, but then again, game is dying so maybe some board clutter is nice to keep up pretenses, though the position they are in isn't fair for the groups that fully progress on the bosses. Just my thoughts. Not at all, he's saying that the rules haven't been applied to the letter at all so why start doing that for 1 team 3 months after the thread was created. They were the 4th unique team to kill izax, and the way the leader board has been listed the entire time, whoever has the most advanced boss kill the most recently is listed top, that's why the 1st team to kill A/E isn't still first among the izax list because other teams killed izax first. Team Mango killed Izax after Amethyst so they would be listed right after Amethyst. The reason why the rest of their achievements are posted is because it would be silly to just leave that blank with the Izax achievement linked, doesn't change the fact that they still killed Izax 4th. If Team Mango happens to get timed run 2nd then it won't matter that they were 5th Izax since they would be 2nd on the most advanced achievement. Edited March 4, 2019 by shyroman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragoshNashu Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Not at all, he's saying that the rules haven't been applied to the letter at all so why start doing that for 1 team 3 months after the thread was created. They were the 4th unique team to kill izax, and the way the leader board has been listed the entire time, whoever has the most advanced boss kill the most recently is listed top, that's why the 1st team to kill A/E isn't still first among the izax list because other teams killed izax first. Team Mango killed Izax after Amethyst so they would be listed right after Amethyst. The reason why the rest of their achievements are posted is because it would be silly to just leave that blank with the Izax achievement linked, doesn't change the fact that they still killed Izax 4th. You are missing the fact that the screenshot also shows the titles for killing izax on everyone there. Unless you believe that we actually killed izax before and we already had achievements, in which case you can stop reading, there's no point, you won't understand it anyway. They did kill it before team Mango, but they do not have all 5 bosses as Team Mango has, so they should be below team Mango on board, as it's basically a lockout kill. The fact that it is silly to be that way doesn't matter, it's just the way it is (or it should have been, because apparently, not being silly is just another rule that wasn't written there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellRichter Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) So you doubt all 8 people got Izax achievement in our izax kill? CoolStoryBob And I don't think they are cherry picking a team, they are casting doubt for a team that Mac already refused to acknowledge 2 kills for. How they magically managed to get 5 achievements pop on same kill, after majority of group already having killed the bosses previously is beyond me. But hey, stranger things have happened. If you ask me, it's just board clutter, but then again, game is dying so maybe some board clutter is nice to keep up pretenses, though the position they are in isn't fair for the groups that fully progress on the bosses. Just my thoughts. I have 100% faith everyone got their achieve that day, but we are talking about posting rules. Pretty much every team has broken the posting rules in one instance or another and Mac has still posted them. You're just beating a dead horse that no one even cares about anymore. Edited March 4, 2019 by RussellRichter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragoshNashu Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I have 100% faith everyone got their achieve that day, but we are talking about posting rules. Pretty much every team has broken the posting rules in once instance or another and Mac has still posted them. It's one thing to bend the posting rules, and another to not follow them. For that Izax kill you are hinting to, everyone had titles on, basically giving proof the kill happened for everyone there. Are you saying that they have a kill in which 5 members got an achievement? If so, then present it, and all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellRichter Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) It's one thing to bend the posting rules, and another to not follow them. For that Izax kill you are hinting to, everyone had titles on, basically giving proof the kill happened for everyone there. Are you saying that they have a kill in which 5 members got an achievement? If so, then present it, and all good. It's not just that screenshot im referring to though, like every team has not followed the rules that were originally set out for screenshotting in one instance or another. There's obviously a bias against one team. Edited March 4, 2019 by RussellRichter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragoshNashu Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 It's not just that screenshot im referring to though, like every team has not followed the rules that were originally set out for screenshotting in one instance or another. There's obviously a bias against one team. You're failing to see the point. I don't think anyone cares about what they posted or not posted. It the fact that Mac himself denied them the claimable kills, and then he changed his mind?? How can they not be eligible 1st time they kill it, where I guess 4 ppl got an achievement, and on a following kill they are, where I suppose only 1 person got it. It's exactly the point Mac was making in his rules. To not clutter the board with teams that obviously have an advantage if they have people in the group that already know the fight, and have downed it previously. As someone said earlier, it's like rotating 5 fresh people though all achievements and then calling them a new team, if it doesn't matter if they got the achievement together or not. But anyway, the discussion is getting tiresome, and it doesn't really matter to me apart from the fact that I believe it's really unfair to Team Mango, so I wish you good night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellRichter Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 You're failing to see the point. I don't think anyone cares about what they posted or not posted. It the fact that Mac himself denied them the claimable kills, and then he changed his mind?? How can they not be eligible 1st time they kill it, where I guess 4 ppl got an achievement, and on a following kill they are, where I suppose only 1 person got it. It's exactly the point Mac was making in his rules. To not clutter the board with teams that obviously have an advantage if they have people in the group that already know the fight, and have downed it previously. As someone said earlier, it's like rotating 5 fresh people though all achievements and then calling them a new team, if it doesn't matter if they got the achievement together or not. But anyway, the discussion is getting tiresome, and it doesn't really matter to me apart from the fact that I believe it's really unfair to Team Mango, so I wish you good night! I feel like Mac addressed this already in one of his responses but that was glossed over as well. The comparison doesn't really make sense because Amethyst has been a team for over a year now afaik and that was not the case with them. But agreed, it really is a tiresome conversation and I've heard the same memes and stuff every day for the last 3 weeks. Good night to you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 You are missing the fact that the screenshot also shows the titles for killing izax on everyone there. Unless you believe that we actually killed izax before and we already had achievements, in which case you can stop reading, there's no point, you won't understand it anyway. They did kill it before team Mango, but they do not have all 5 bosses as Team Mango has, so they should be below team Mango on board, as it's basically a lockout kill. The fact that it is silly to be that way doesn't matter, it's just the way it is (or it should have been, because apparently, not being silly is just another rule that wasn't written there). Did you not read any of my post lol, literally my first 3 words reference to us believing that your kill was 100% legit. The rest of the post refers to their place in the standings. The way every other kill in the post has been listed rankings wise, is by the most recent kill. Even if the first 4 boss kills for amethyst were taken off the board, they’d still be 4th in the rankings because they were 4th izax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragoshNashu Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Did you not read any of my post lol, literally my first 3 words reference to us believing that your kill was 100% legit. The rest of the post refers to their place in the standings. The way every other kill in the post has been listed rankings wise, is by the most recent kill. Even if the first 4 boss kills for amethyst were taken off the board, they’d still be 4th in the rankings because they were 4th izax. By your last 2 sentences I feel you didn't read the original post Mac made. Read it please, and then tell me how the order is being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 By your last 2 sentences I feel you didn't read the original post Mac made. Read it please, and then tell me how the order is being made. Ok fine, those last 2 sentences were me not reading the original post in 3 months, but by the wording of the original post To illustrate this with an example; let's say Team A has cleared the first three bosses, Team B has cleared bosses 2, 3 and 4, and team Teac C has cleared bosses 1, 2, 3 and 4. In this case Team C would be ranked highest, Team A ranked 2nd, and Team B ranked 3rd. That simply states cleared those bosses, which Amethyst has clearly done. They're not trying to claim a certain ranking of the first 4 bosses, just 4th izax. So claim first Izax while clearing all 5, still will put them at 4th. He has also said this Whilst I have said that I'll probably lighten claim criteria as more kills trickle in, thus it'll likely drop down to 4 instead of 5. This should give an opportunity for your group to be included on this board so you are welcome to post kills with 4 unique members if you wish. So the 4 unique members for the first 4 boss clears should still be relevant as far as using them as clears along with their 4th Izax kill with 5 unique members. He also previously had an understanding of there being only 4 unique members in that group when there are actually 5 right now. Either way, I'm done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskernutz Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Tyth - <Ordinance> - Star Forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SineOris Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 It's not just that screenshot im referring to though, like every team has not followed the rules that were originally set out for screenshotting in one instance or another. There's obviously a bias against one team. Yeah sorry I used different utc time site on tyth ss my bad, wont happen again I promise:jawa_angel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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