New Races

[Martyrofsand]

Frankly I would be happy to have more masks for my Miraluka characters.

[Azterion]

I'd like some good content first, then fix a few things that might be broke (still) and I want another Astromech droid first too. One that I can tell apart from the other 999 I have that don't see the light of day.

Thanks! I appreciate you sharing the link! I'm not sure why the devs would say that, unless they think we just won't know any better and believe it. But yeah, races like Nautolins and Kel-dor should still be an easy fit in the game. It's really not much to ask them seeing as how these races are no different than the current ones.

[MadDutchman]

Thanks! I appreciate you sharing the link! I'm not sure why the devs would say that, unless they think we just won't know any better and believe it. But yeah, races like Nautolins and Kel-dor should still be an easy fit in the game. It's really not much to ask them seeing as how these races are no different than the current ones.

 

The question really isn't what they can do but what they feel will give the best return on investment.

 

It's also not as simple as you might think to be adding this stuff. You are right in that it should be simple, however complications caused by poor initial design as well as a severely limiting engine (it was incomplete when they bought it and all evidence suggests that it has grown into a massive pile of spaghetti code).

 

While we can't know for sure what kind of tools they have internally, we can infer things about what is easy and what is hard from previous and current bugs, high demand features that take a long time to be implemented (if they are at all) etc.

 

One thing we can infer is how NPC models/textures are applied is not handled the same as PC models/textures. I don't know if you were around for when the covert energy set was first released, but for example if you put the bracers on a companion with a set that should show skin, it wouldn't. It often would show the companions "default" bracers. This was never a problem for PCs. This was (mostly) fixed over the course of 4.0 and 5.0 when companions were redone for KOTFE/KOTET. Even so, every once and awhile, you'll still come across texture bugs during cut scenes. This is a sure sign of spaghetti code and a really messed up assets system. Also, all the models must be done for all the different body types, which gives quite the pile to work through

 

Under these circumstances, even simple activities could quickly balloon into a considerable amount of pain, as textures need to be applied to all models correctly (many of them also have male and female versions). This is all simple enough using the human model (basically all the PC species except Twi'lek and Togruta), as they can just stop there, all the animations are done, the cut scenes work out of the box and so on. It just works out to a whole bunch of texture work.

 

As soon as you start working with species with "weird head things" (one of the devs words, can't remember which one) you open up a new can of worms though. Things that should be simple are not. The devs are well aware of the demand for more customization options for Twi'lek for example, such as the Sith eyes that should be just a texture job. Thing is, it's been, what, a year since that pack went out? If it was actually trivial to do, they'd have done it long ago, keeping in mind this is something they'd be selling on the CM, so there is direct and immediate benefit for them to implement something like this.

 

Now, if "weird head things" are a challenge for them, I don't think "weird whole body things" is at all reasonable to expect them to do. Besides the "baseline" level of work, you now have to figure out what to do about pretty much all armour sets. The Togruta could get away with just auto-hiding the head slot, but that probably won't fly on other species (except perhaps Wookiee or Deshade, however they are not likely to implement a species that won't fuel the demand for more CM armour). ex. Khem Val ignores the armour he is wearing. If you want people to buy your new shinies, this is a bit counter-productive

 

Now if we limit ourselves to species that are "close enough" to normal in proportions (Trandoshan for example) we can move on to other problems like height. Cut scenes are the main issue here, as the camera has scripted points that it is positioned at, which could be a real problem for species that are taller or shorter than the current, as you would have to go through every single conversation and adjust these for the new height.

 

I'm not even going to get too far into the issues of Basic and romanceability. These are valid issues but are more of a should they do it than can they do it. A lot of it boils down to what I like to call "vanity" species. It might be kinda fun to run around with for awhile, but listening to a Jawa jabber away for hours on end would drive me insane before long, and the lack of "normal" player features like having romanceable companions would be a major deterrent for a lot of people.

 

 

All this coming back to the earlier point about return on investment. Everyone who wants new species has their list of favourites that they really, really want (lucky for me, that was Togruta) going down to those that they just kinda want. For most people, this list is quite large such that it almost doesn't matter what they give us, the vast majority who want new species will buy it, even if it isn't our personal favourite (ex. I bought Cathar even though it was Togruta I really wanted).

 

So if they can implement say, Nautolan for 200 dev hours, or Wookiee for 1000 hours, the odds of Wookiee selling 5x better is practically 0. And Wookiee taking 5x as long as Nautolan is probably conservative on my part.

 

Bit of a no brainer for them.

Edited November 2, 2018 by MadDutchman

[Azterion]

The question really isn't what they can do but what they feel will give the best return on investment.

 

It's also not as simple as you might think to be adding this stuff. You are right in that it should be simple, however complications caused by poor initial design as well as a severely limiting engine (it was incomplete when they bought it and all evidence suggests that it has grown into a massive pile of spaghetti code).

 

While we can't know for sure what kind of tools they have internally, we can infer things about what is easy and what is hard from previous and current bugs, high demand features that take a long time to be implemented (if they are at all) etc.

 

One thing we can infer is how NPC models/textures are applied is not handled the same as PC models/textures. I don't know if you were around for when the covert energy set was first released, but for example if you put the bracers on a companion with a set that should show skin, it wouldn't. It often would show the companions "default" bracers. This was never a problem for PCs. This was (mostly) fixed over the course of 4.0 and 5.0 when companions were redone for KOTFE/KOTET. Even so, every once and awhile, you'll still come across texture bugs during cut scenes. This is a sure sign of spaghetti code and a really messed up assets system. Also, all the models must be done for all the different body types, which gives quite the pile to work through

 

Under these circumstances, even simple activities could quickly balloon into a considerable amount of pain, as textures need to be applied to all models correctly (many of them also have male and female versions). This is all simple enough using the human model (basically all the PC species except Twi'lek and Togruta), as they can just stop there, all the animations are done, the cut scenes work out of the box and so on. It just works out to a whole bunch of texture work.

 

As soon as you start working with species with "weird head things" (one of the devs words, can't remember which one) you open up a new can of worms though. Things that should be simple are not. The devs are well aware of the demand for more customization options for Twi'lek for example, such as the Sith eyes that should be just a texture job. Thing is, it's been, what, a year since that pack went out? If it was actually trivial to do, they'd have done it long ago, keeping in mind this is something they'd be selling on the CM, so there is direct and immediate benefit for them to implement something like this.

 

Now, if "weird head things" are a challenge for them, I don't think "weird whole body things" is at all reasonable to expect them to do. Besides the "baseline" level of work, you now have to figure out what to do about pretty much all armour sets. The Togruta could get away with just auto-hiding the head slot, but that probably won't fly on other species (except perhaps Wookiee or Deshade, however they are not likely to implement a species that won't fuel the demand for more CM armour). ex. Khem Val ignores the armour he is wearing. If you want people to buy your new shinies, this is a bit counter-productive

 

Now if we limit ourselves to species that are "close enough" to normal in proportions (Trandoshan for example) we can move on to other problems like height. Cut scenes are the main issue here, as the camera has scripted points that it is positioned at, which could be a real problem for species that are taller or shorter than the current, as you would have to go through every single conversation and adjust these for the new height.

 

I'm not even going to get too far into the issues of Basic and romanceability. These are valid issues but are more of a should they do it than can they do it. A lot of it boils down to what I like to call "vanity" species. It might be kinda fun to run around with for awhile, but listening to a Jawa jabber away for hours on end would drive me insane before long, and the lack of "normal" player features like having romanceable companions would be a major deterrent for a lot of people.

 

 

All this coming back to the earlier point about return on investment. Everyone who wants new species has their list of favourites that they really, really want (lucky for me, that was Togruta) going down to those that they just kinda want. For most people, this list is quite large such that it almost doesn't matter what they give us, the vast majority who want new species will buy it, even if it isn't our personal favourite (ex. I bought Cathar even though it was Togruta I really wanted).

 

So if they can implement say, Nautolan for 200 dev hours, or Wookiee for 1000 hours, the odds of Wookiee selling 5x better is practically 0. And Wookiee taking 5x as long as Nautolan is probably conservative on my part.

 

Bit of a no brainer for them.

 

Whether it's as easy as I know it is, or possibly as difficult as what you're saying - the bottom line is that it's their job and they shouldn't need fans to make excuses for them. We love their work, but we are paying them for this after all, so we have a right to have hopes and expectations for the game. If I were running a business of any kind, I'd fully accept that my clients expect results and for me to hold up to a certain standard and work ethic. So once, again, it doesn't matter if it's hard or not, it's part of the job.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Azterion

[tummiswtor]

Nautolan… Rodian… Kel Dor... still hoping…

[Azterion]

Nautolan… Rodian… Kel Dor... still hoping…

 

Same here, man. Way overdue.

[Kamylle]

The Defel. I want them in. I would race change my BH so fast if they were introduced.

[Azterion]

The Defel. I want them in. I would race change my BH so fast if they were introduced.

 

Haha, yes! Good choice!

[taxidermis]

Hands down have always wanted to play a kel-dor jedi. Have always been fascinated by them, though I fear there would not be enough customization options

[Azterion]

Hands down have always wanted to play a kel-dor jedi. Have always been fascinated by them, though I fear there would not be enough customization options

 

They are a great choice with a rich cultural background of seers and naturally gifted force wielders. Plo Koon was always a wise mentor figure in Clone Wars too, so I can see why you'd love them. I'm sure they'll come up with multiple skin colors, patterns, and mask types. They may not have hair, but their face shapes are easily to manipulate into multiple types. If they don't wanna do it, I'll draw them some ideas for free lol. I hope you get that race, because they're a fantastic choice.

[JakRoanin]

I setup my "alien" legacy and frankly there's no point to having a species other than looks. I say give us more lore items and options for what we have now! Edited November 8, 2018 by JakRoanin

[CrazyScruffy]

I'll take Sephi, talk about easy to do

[Azterion]

I setup my "alien" legacy and frankly there's no point to having a species other than looks. I say give us more lore items and options for what we have now!

 

More lore items and options would be a great addition to the game, but so would new races and looks. There's no reason we can't have both.

[Azterion]

I'll take Sephi, talk about easy to do

 

That's another great suggestion! And speaking about pointed eared species: I'd love to see the near-human species that Fay was a member of. Basically Star Wars Elves.