252/258 Gearing System not viable for Casual/PvP players

[Totemdancer]

Update from my conversation on the PTS for UC to crystal conversion

 

I’m trying to find out if this is 2 per legacy/server or 2 per character.

 

It’ll be interesting to see if you can buy another one today. If not, then I guess it’s 2 per week.

 

Still locked out today. So yeah it looks like 2 per week at the moment.

 

These changes were made in this last PTS patch. Before you could buy per day.

From my perspective, Bioware have listened to the feed back and decided to make the grind even harder for pvpers with lots of UCs so that they cannot get very far ahead of other players.

If that was their intention, they have it backwards. We don’t care if people with tonnes of UCs can buy more crystals.

We care that the grind is so long. Making the grind worse is doing the exact opposite.

Is this another example of Bioware doubling down on a bad decision to make it fit their idea? Because that worked out great in 5.0.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Totemdancer

[olagatonjedi]

Nerf of companions by 80% after the launch of KOTFE. Reversed in a week to a 25% nerf as was recommended by players. Next?

How do you know that monitoring and adjusting the adequacy of companions wasnt already part of their plan in the first place?

 

And i would say that companions nowadays are too powerful, imo. So it definitely affected parts other than kotfe

Edited November 5, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Totemdancer]

How do you know that monitoring and adjusting the adequacy of companions wasnt already part of their plan in the first place?

 

Can we all get back on topic please and stop derailing the thread

Edited November 6, 2018 by Totemdancer

[olagatonjedi]

However, they knew they were there. Many, many players posted about them in the PTS. There were several threads begging them to push the release so it did not go live with the bugs. Guess what, they pushed it live.

Its still different than what i asked. Perhaps they felt holding back the update for those specific bugs was not worth it due to how long it would take to fix them and didnt want that long of a delay. These are the types of issues beyond the game that they have to consider as well. The politics of business and deadlines.

[mhobin]

Its still different than what i asked. Perhaps they felt holding back the update for those specific bugs was not worth it due to how long it would take to fix them and didnt want that long of a delay. These are the types of issues beyond the game that they have to consider as well. The politics of business and deadlines.

 

Ok, I think that is a terrible argument, but I will move on.

 

The last time they made huge changes to gear, and put it through random loot boxes. People hated the idea, made it known....then they saw a decline in the playerbase and spent the rest of the year fixing the gearing system and made the loot boxes a side way to get gear instead of the focus. The playerbase told them it did not want the change, they pushed it live but waited until they saw a decline in people playing.

 

This new gear change could see a similar exodus to the one that happened with command crates, and the game can not afford a similar steep decline.

[Lhancelot]

This new gear change could see a similar exodus to the one that happened with command crates, and the game can not afford a similar steep decline.

 

This is my take on it. I am pretty sure I aint alone in coming to the conclusion I have zero interest in participating in an even more steep gear grind than what we got already.

 

I barely can tolerate how long it takes gearing the limited number of alts I play now.

 

Adding more gear grind that takes even longer only means gearing my alts for PVP will take even longer and I don't have the time or patience for that.

 

If they wanted to kill PVP and alt-gameplay I am pretty sure they have found the way with super heavy gear grinds and a gearing system that relies heavily on RNG. Neither of these details are enjoyable to me as an alt playing PVPer.

[olagatonjedi]

Ok, I think that is a terrible argument, but I will move on.

 

The last time they made huge changes to gear, and put it through random loot boxes. People hated the idea, made it known....then they saw a decline in the playerbase and spent the rest of the year fixing the gearing system and made the loot boxes a side way to get gear instead of the focus. The playerbase told them it did not want the change, they pushed it live but waited until they saw a decline in people playing.

 

This new gear change could see a similar exodus to the one that happened with command crates, and the game can not afford a similar steep decline.

There is no evidence the gear change alone caused people to leave. And there is no reliable way to tally any of the numbers of players who joined vs left vs left temporarily.

[olagatonjedi]

Please don’t take it that way, I certainly didn’t mean for it to come across like that. It was just a friendly reminder to please stay on topic so we can have a proper discussion about the gearing and not pages of arguing about other topics that have nothing to do with the thread.

Let me edit it to include everyone.

Its all relevant to the topic, because it isnt just the player base who decides the changes.

[olagatonjedi]

This is my take on it. I am pretty sure I aint alone in coming to the conclusion I have zero interest in participating in an even more steep gear grind than what we got already.

If you are not their focus population, and their goal isnt to gear everyone out, then its expected that you wouldnt participate in the grind.

[TrixxieTriss]

This is my take on it. I am pretty sure I aint alone in coming to the conclusion I have zero interest in participating in an even more steep gear grind than what we got already.

 

I barely can tolerate how long it takes gearing the limited number of alts I play now.

 

Adding more gear grind that takes even longer only means gearing my alts for PVP will take even longer and I don't have the time or patience for that.

 

If they wanted to kill PVP and alt-gameplay I am pretty sure they have found the way with super heavy gear grinds and a gearing system that relies heavily on RNG. Neither of these details are enjoyable to me as an alt playing PVPer.

 

Feeling exactly the same way and seeing those posts about 2 crystals per week with UCs is making me want to quit.

[kodrac]

Are you harassing me? I dont see you telling others the same thing. If so, please stop. Harassment is unwelcome towards me. I cant say it any clearer.

 

Touchy touchy...

[Ghost_Spectre]

How do you know that monitoring and adjusting the adequacy of companions wasnt already part of their plan in the first place?

 

And i would say that companions nowadays are too powerful, imo. So it definitely affected parts other than kotfe

 

Oh please. Stop. You are now beyond being contrary. You're being ridiculously facetious. Are you going to sit there behind your monitor and attempt to tell me they had this planned? Really? Did they plan to lose 10,000 of thousands of subscriptions too? For nearly 2 weeks we warned them not to nerf more than 25%, two weeks! And what do they do? They nerfed the companions worse than they nerfed the Sorcerers/Sages in Update 1.2. A week later they reversed it because of a plan? You're living in a fantasy world if you even begin to believe that. Their bad business decision cost them money for doing so and NOT listening to the recommendations we gave them. In the end, WE were correct, they were wrong..and they admitted it.

 

You asked and you were answered. However, you do not like the answer (as it was factual and empirical) so you deflect, deny, and condescend. Typical of one that loses a challenge. Grow up and stop being a child. Stop with your constant contrary posts in an attempt to prove your superior intellect and reasoning. You failed miserably.

[Totemdancer]

Definitely per character. So 2 per week per character as of current PTS.

 

Ok, so there is confirmation that the current pts build has a UC lock out conversion of 2 crystals per character, per week.

The first buy on only one character is 500 CC, but each subsequent buy is 1000 CCs per character (I believe).

[MajorJam]

I'm not interested in crafted end game gear. Not sure why we didn't extend the command rank system. Or readjusted it to 50 per tier. Tier 5 could be the new 300 or 350 if needed.

 

It's time for me to go away for a while again. Maybe see you all in 6.0.

[Ghost_Spectre]

I'm not interested in crafted end game gear. Not sure why we didn't extend the command rank system. Or readjusted it to 50 per tier. Tier 5 could be the new 300 or 350 if needed.

 

It's time for me to go away for a while again. Maybe see you all in 6.0.

 

This should've been the conclusion of the developers too. Extend the rank level up thus current progression of gear would not be nullified. As it stands, I have a tab full of 248 shells that are completely useless to me now. Cannot use them to buy new gear as we previously did. This new system appears to be designed to limit us from gearing our alts truth be known.

 

Now, we have a new convoluted Koreanesque styled gear grind system coming targeted against non-NiM players. That is wrong on more levels than I care to think about. Please White Hats, don't bother, you will not change my mind or opinion on this. I do not want to spend 9 plus freaking months to gear up one toon as I did in Blade & Soul in SWTOR. This is exactly what the developers intend with this new system.

[Pietrastor]

As it stands, I have a tab full of 248 shells that are completely useless to me now.

 

Which is probably one of the big reasons why they separated Tier 5 from GC system. Most people been vendoring their 248 shells for nearly 2 years. Sure, one could say "well those who hoard just in case deserve to be rewarded by echanging 248s for 258s within 10 minutes of 5.10 going live", but the reward in such case would probably be a bit TOO much compared to time/effort to regain 248 shells for players that vendored them

Edited November 6, 2018 by Pietrastor

[Jdast]

This should've been the conclusion of the developers too. Extend the rank level up thus current progression of gear would not be nullified. As it stands, I have a tab full of 248 shells that are completely useless to me now. Cannot use them to buy new gear as we previously did. This new system appears to be designed to limit us from gearing our alts truth be known.

 

Now, we have a new convoluted Koreanesque styled gear grind system coming targeted against non-NiM players. That is wrong on more levels than I care to think about. Please White Hats, don't bother, you will not change my mind or opinion on this. I do not want to spend 9 plus freaking months to gear up one toon as I did in Blade & Soul in SWTOR. This is exactly what the developers intend with this new system.

 

As of the current PTS, I'll have 3-4 BiS in 2 months + week without stepping even a tiny tippy toe into NiM GotM. I looked at the PTS, managed the situation, qualified my assessment based on the data, and arrived at a conclusion I'm totally comfortable with vis a vis other forms of gearing in relative terms.

 

It's just not that bad. Crafters have it worse on the PTS.

 

/shrug

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I would increase Bolster to 252 and ease up on the UC costs / acquisition.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Jdast

[Lhancelot]

As of the current PTS, I'll have 3-4 BiS in 2 months + week without stepping even a tiny tippy toe into NiM GotM. I looked at the PTS, managed the situation, qualified my assessment based on the data, and arrived at a conclusion I'm totally comfortable with vis a vis other forms of gearing in relative terms.

 

It's just not that bad.

 

What you are saying then is the new system actually is easier than what we have now then? I played a lot after coming back to the game, and it took me 3 months to get 2 in BiS and 2 other toons to be in a mix of gears not yet in BiS.

 

I'd be more curious to read exactly what it takes to accomplish this in 2 months + week then, because what may be "just not that bad" for you could be impossibly bad for others depending on exactly what would need to transpire in that 2 months + week to make 3-4 BiS characters.

 

I wish we could get a glimpse of the future, I really am curious to see how 5.10 and future updates turn out for SWTOR.

[Lhancelot]

I'm not interested in crafted end game gear. Not sure why we didn't extend the command rank system. Or readjusted it to 50 per tier. Tier 5 could be the new 300 or 350 if needed.

 

It's time for me to go away for a while again. Maybe see you all in 6.0.

 

Yeah that's what I am wondering. Again, they are "fixing" something that isn't broke. They finally worked the gear system out so even those who hate gear grinds have accepted the gearing system as playable, and now they are going to dump 5.10 on the game. RIP PVP and Alts.

[olagatonjedi]

Which is probably one of the big reasons why they separated Tier 5 from GC system. Most people been vendoring their 248 shells for nearly 2 years. Sure, one could say "well those who hoard just in case deserve to be rewarded by echanging 248s for 258s within 10 minutes of 5.10 going live", but the reward in such case would probably be a bit TOO much compared to time/effort to regain 248 shells for players that vendored them

In addition, the GC system was a general population type of gearing system. The 5.10 isnt even being represented as a general population system, so this change just reinforces that notion.

[TrixxieTriss]

As of the current PTS, I'll have 3-4 BiS in 2 months + week without stepping even a tiny tippy toe into NiM GotM. I looked at the PTS, managed the situation, qualified my assessment based on the data, and arrived at a conclusion I'm totally comfortable with vis a vis other forms of gearing in relative terms.

 

It's just not that bad. Crafters have it worse on the PTS.

 

/shrug

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I would increase Bolster to 252 and ease up on the UC costs / acquisition.

 

Can you explain your method for being able to do that and does that rely on how many UCs, credits and Alts you currently have?

Edited November 7, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Ghost_Spectre]

As of the current PTS, I'll have 3-4 BiS in 2 months + week without stepping even a tiny tippy toe into NiM GotM. I looked at the PTS, managed the situation, qualified my assessment based on the data, and arrived at a conclusion I'm totally comfortable with vis a vis other forms of gearing in relative terms.

 

It's just not that bad. Crafters have it worse on the PTS.

 

/shrug

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I would increase Bolster to 252 and ease up on the UC costs / acquisition.

 

If this is the case, please share your methodology in how you can accomplish this. If not here, send me a PM please. I would love to look over what and how and apply it myself IF the current set up survives PTS to launch.

 

As for bolster. I've never been a proponent of it because it always bolstered to a lower gear that put everyone at a disadvantage that wasn't in top gear. This is apparent in PvE for FPs. I am a PvPer or was. Playing from where I live here in the Philippines with a 250 to 350ms ping (plus) makes it quite difficult to be competitive as I found out after moving here.

 

The suggestion I agree with concerning the use of PvP is to bolster to max gear level (258), negate any worn gear's affect and let players participate on equal footing. Then no one has any leg to stand on when skill is prevalent and outcomes not influenced by gear imbalance. I loved how GW2 did it. I had a blast in open world zerging right and left with my Archer. <shrug>

 

Again, please share your methodology for obtaining the gear. It would be greatly appreciated.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Ghost_Spectre

[TUXs]

As of the current PTS, I'll have 3-4 BiS in 2 months + week without stepping even a tiny tippy toe into NiM GotM. I looked at the PTS, managed the situation, qualified my assessment based on the data, and arrived at a conclusion I'm totally comfortable with vis a vis other forms of gearing in relative terms.

 

It's just not that bad. Crafters have it worse on the PTS.

 

/shrug

 

Dasty

 

P.S. I would increase Bolster to 252 and ease up on the UC costs / acquisition.

I'm curious too Dasty - what exactly are you doing? Are you using an alt army and a vault full of UC's to get that many toons to BiS??

 

I believe you think you realistically can do this, I just would like you to explain how you intend to do it.

[Andryah]

Can you explain your method for being able to do that and does that rely on how many UCs, credits and Alts you currently have?

 

Suggestion: Take 10 minutes to go read his recent posting history and you will know the answer to your question. There is really no reason for him to re-tread it all an a fresh post just because you just came back Trixxie.

 

Jdast has actually been analyzing and planning the approach for close to two weeks now and sharing it as comparative narrative in the discussions VS all the doom and gloom posts ... and he is not alone... it's just that more people are playing the doom card rather then doing what they would actually be doing once the patch goes live ---> the same thing they always do....work the simplest and most efficient path for the player, rather then crying in their beer about it.

 

But since you are just back fresh from a protest break.... I'll hand you a couple clues to get you started: 1) alts are a strong leverage point. 2) MWS earnout is the key, followed by buying gear on each alt, followed by pulling the mods and slapping them in legacy gear and moving them around your legacy (because MWS is BoP, as is the vendor gear). If you are sitting on a lot of UCs (like Many PvPers do) .... you have it even easier with the alt conversion methodology and time to BiS.

 

And... welcome back. How long this time?

Edited November 7, 2018 by Andryah

[Khevar]

I'm curious too Dasty - what exactly are you doing? Are you using an alt army and a vault full of UC's to get that many toons to BiS??

 

I believe you think you realistically can do this, I just would like you to explain how you intend to do it.

Here's a guess (completely out out of left field because I like napkin math)

 

12 alts x weekly Ossus heroics = 12 MWS * 10 weeks = 120 MWS

4 alts x weekly MM flashpoints = 4 MWS * 10 weeks = 40 MWS

10,000 stockpiled UCs = 500 per week per character = 20 MWS

 

Running 12 alts on the weekly is going to gain GC levels, and destroying gear will gain more UCs. Perhaps 2000 more?

 

Total 184 MWS

 

Some gear is 5 MWS, most is 4 MWS. So for the sake of the argument, let's say 4.25 MWS per slot. 9 of the alts for right side legacy shlepping, the other 4 for actual gearing.

 

184 MWS / 4.25 = 43 pieces of gear.

 

Assuming that mainhand / offhand stays out of the vendor, that would be 12 pieces per character == 3.5 character geared.

 

By that time, barrels / hilts will be selling on GTN, for (this is a guess) 50 million credits a pop. So another 150 million for those three characters.

 

I'm exhausted just thinking about doing all that.