The Bioware hate vs. a voice of reason.

[ENVISIONocity]

Ok. I'm gonna say this this for the 4th time now.

 

If players what their EZ mode, LET THEM HAVE IT. We can just have a mega-xp-boost and use the DVL gear for extra stats, do level 10 content on lv 70 toon, I dont care! I'm not asking for the removal of the EZ mode! Why do you keep thinking that?

EVERYTHING was changed to EZ mode instead for everyone, without asking. If I want to make stuff unnecessarirly hard FOR MYSELF, NOT FOR YOU, why is that such a tall order it can't even be discussed because its my personal opinion wanting to make my own life harder in a videogame

 

I'll presume that you missed where I wrote this in an earlier response to you:

 

 

I'd be okay with Bioware adding the ability to select one's level of play, which would then adjust/scale according to the "stress valve" the subscriber chose to set.

 

 

How that misses the point you want to get across about gameplay difficulty, I'm not sure. Or proves that I didn't hear you somehow.

 

If the lack of this feature is a game-breaker for you, then you're not playing SWTOR and are paying a subscription simply to post here on the forum. If it's not a game-breaker for you, and you're still playing SWTOR, then you're talking about a personal preference or change you'd like to see but can evidently live without even if you don't necessarily like it.

 

Which would you say it is?

[Kiesu]

I'll presume that you missed where I wrote this in an earlier response to you:

Ok, I did misinterpret your line about "if everything would be more difficult" and "expecting everything to be on ops/fp level" as "but actually we shouldn't change any difficulties because we got ops and stuff for that already". Sorry

 

If the lack of this feature is a game-breaker for you, then you're not playing SWTOR and are paying a subscription simply to post here on the forum. If it's not a game-breaker for you, and you're still playing SWTOR, then you're talking about a personal preference or change you'd like to see but can evidently live without even if you don't necessarily like it.

 

Which would you say it is?

Neither. I play all aspects of swtor. Pvp, fp, solo, alting, raiding, crafting, casual content, nim content... I'm not one of those people who "only do one thing in this game". But it doesn't mean that I'm happy with how all the states of the game are currently, just because I am still playing. So you see, I just stop doing specific content type if I don't like how its working, and I will complain about it because I'd like to do it. This is fair, yes?

Edited October 5, 2018 by Kiesu

[Ardrossan]

This is my issue personally with the lvling. There is no challenge anymore. I like PVP and Raiding because it challenges me over and over. Leveling is so easy you dont do it for the gameplay anymore, you just do it for levels and dialog, there is no excitement facing off any "stong boss nemesis" anymore since they all die in 4-5 hits. What a massively anticlimactic ending to an epic story line.

 

Since you've auto-unlocked all datacrons on level 1 you have a massive stat advantage for the entire leveling process and no way to turn it off. I've been running naked and the only time I've ever come close to dying is if I pull entire area's worth of mobs. Passifying companion helps but wrecks immersion, and dis-summoning them is gonna make you miss all of their side comments. Staying under-leveled would pretty much fix the problem, but it is impossible with the amount of XP you get. Like I said, I hit 50 on the third planet when doing everything. Leveling just isn't fun, the excitement of trying to figure out boss patterns is not there since they never manage to do their rotation even once anymore before they've already hit the floor. If I'd want to play a story with no gameplay challenge I'd pick up a visual novel, I wan't my vanilla challenge back!

 

Next week, during the 2xp event, there will be a Gree vendor on fleet who sells the white acute module. Buy it, it's BoL and will reduce xp not just during the event, but normally as well. I have it on all the time when I'm leveling through the class story. I've done it several times before on chars. If I have it on my JK at the beginning of Tython, after doing all class quests, sidequests, exploration missions and the heroic, I'm about level 11 or 12 at the most.

 

Someone else pointed out to me that as far as level sync goes, the cap is usually about two levels above the planet recommended level. Thus if the recommended level on NS is 18-21, the LS comes into effect around level 23 or 24. This means that if you are using the W.A.M, you need to go by the planet recommended levels, and leave the planet when you reach the limit of its recommended levels, not level sync's, or else you will be consistently overleveled throughout the game.

 

This does not change the game out of EZ-mode, but it helps, and it helps for being able to enjoy the story more.

[Kiesu]

Next week, during the 2xp event, there will be a Gree vendor on fleet who sells the white acute module. Buy it, it's BoL and will reduce xp not just during the event, but normally as well. I have it on all the time when I'm leveling through the class story. I've done it several times before on chars. If I have it on my JK at the beginning of Tython, after doing all class quests, sidequests, exploration missions and the heroic, I'm about level 11 or 12 at the most.

 

Someone else pointed out to me that as far as level sync goes, the cap is usually about two levels above the planet recommended level. Thus if the recommended level on NS is 18-21, the LS comes into effect around level 23 or 24. This means that if you are using the W.A.M, you need to go by the planet recommended levels, and leave the planet when you reach the limit of its recommended levels, not level sync's, or else you will be consistently overleveled throughout the game.

 

This does not change the game out of EZ-mode, but it helps, and it helps for being able to enjoy the story more.

Oh! I had no idea that boost-.. anti-boost, thing, works outside of double XP too. I don't usually touch lowbies at all during XP events. Thanks for the tip, I'll have to get it and try it when double-xp ends.

 

Too bad it still won't help with nemesis on lv10 planets, since enemies there scaled way down there no matter what lv you might be, you'll always be OP compared to them.. :\

Or the rest of the auto-unlock stat boosts that come with legacy or even from just being in a guild...

Edited October 5, 2018 by Kiesu

[TUXs]

I'd be okay with Bioware adding the ability to select one's level of play, which would then adjust/scale according to the "stress valve" the subscriber chose to set.

You're both right.

 

ENVISION, your idea is EXACTLY what I think some players would like, and I wish it were added just to end the "game is 2 EZ" idea. But...I also think it would be a complete waste of time. Players who claim the game is too easy are running their 50th toon through a story they've already done a dozen times before with a full compliment of Legacy gear and class buffs. People don't even do the obvious now - dismiss a companion - to add their own challenge. Because of all the ways to increase difficulty that already exist, that are completely ignored, I think letting them choose their own difficulty level is a waste of time because I doubt more than a handful of players would actually bother to lower their personal stats.

 

If players what their EZ mode, LET THEM HAVE IT. We can just have a mega-xp-boost and use the DVL gear for extra stats, do level 10 content on lv 70 toon, I dont care! I'm not asking for the removal of the EZ mode! Why do you keep thinking that?

EVERYTHING was changed to EZ mode instead for everyone, without asking. If I want to make stuff unnecessarirly hard FOR MYSELF, NOT FOR YOU, why is that such a tall order it can't even be discussed because its my personal opinion wanting to make my own life harder in a videogame

Kiesu, you're right as well.

 

Bioware removed the challenge when they added level sync to the game. Previously, a struggling player had to level up high enough to actually beat things that were overly challenging - I did it ALL the time at launch. PvP and Space missions supplemented my leveling on every single planet. Since that's now impossible to do (over level), Bioware had to error on the side of "too easy" to accommodate as many customers as they can. While 80% of the players can breeze through all the content in game at it's default setting, Bioware had to allow for that other 20% to progress as well...their money is just as good as anyone else's.

 

If you want a challenge nowadays, you're really limited to group content. H2's can, at times, be semi challenging (not many, I know), FP's can almost all be done in solo mode - again, dismiss your companion for an added difficulty level. If you're REALLY good, try the FPs designed for 4 players. PvP and Ops remain the best options for a true challenge though.

 

A personal difficulty slider for level sync is still the best solution imo...even if I doubt it would ever get used.

[TUXs]

Next week, during the 2xp event, there will be a Gree vendor on fleet who sells the white acute module. Buy it, it's BoL and will reduce xp not just during the event, but normally as well.

I had no idea this worked outside of the event - that's very interesting news.

 

Can you get it when the event isn't ongoing from the Gree vendor in the CM area on Fleet?

[Kiesu]

Bioware removed the challenge when they added level sync to the game. Previously, a struggling player had to level up high enough to actually beat things that were overly challenging - I did it ALL the time at launch. PvP and Space missions supplemented my leveling on every single planet. Since that's now impossible to do (over level), Bioware had to error on the side of "too easy" to accommodate as many customers as they can. While 80% of the players can breeze through all the content in game at it's default setting, Bioware had to allow for that other 20% to progress as well...their money is just as good as anyone else's.

 

If you want a challenge nowadays, you're really limited to group content. H2's can, at times, be semi challenging (not many, I know), FP's can almost all be done in solo mode - again, dismiss your companion for an added difficulty level. If you're REALLY good, try the FPs designed for 4 players. PvP and Ops remain the best options for a true challenge though.

 

A personal difficulty slider for level sync is still the best solution imo...even if I doubt it would ever get used.

Haha, I know. Level sync made a lot of things way easier than they should have been. It's funny too, do you remember the forums when people were protesting against level sync and saying "content will be too hard" if they can't do stuff over-lvled to oblivion anymore. Haven't seen anyone complain about that after the sync came to be... lol

 

I know, FPs are an ok way to get some solo-challenge out of my game. However, I already do FPs in groups on regular basis, and don't really have any interest to keep doing the same stuff I already do daily, just this time solo.

 

Lvling is something I only do sometimes, and I very much enjoyed lvling in vanilla. I haven't done all exploration missions in ages, and I recently started a toon which on I decided to do every single quest everywhere-; I discovered this was a terrible idea since I was LV 50 before even getting out of the third planet you ever visit and completely wrecking everything. The missions just turned into visual-novels rather than gameplay-quests since everything dies just by repeatedly tapping 1. Not my idea of fun gameplay experience.

 

Difficulty slider would be perfect. I'd turn every boost down in a heartbeat.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Kiesu

[TUXs]

Haha, I know. Level sync made a lot of things way easier than they should have been. It's funny too, do you remember the forums when people were protesting against level sync and saying "content will be too hard" if they can't do stuff over-lvled to oblivion anymore. Haven't seen anyone complain about that after the sync came to be... lol

 

I know, FPs are an ok way to get some solo-challenge out of my game. However, I already do FPs in groups on regular basis, and don't really have any interest to keep doing the same stuff I already do daily, just this time solo.

 

Lvling is something I only do sometimes, and I very much enjoyed lvling in vanilla. I haven't done all exploration missions in ages, and I recently started a toon which on I decided to do every single quest everywhere-; I discovered this was a terrible idea since I was LV 50 before even getting out of the third planet you ever visit and completely wrecking everything. The missions just turned into visual-novels rather than gameplay-quests since everything dies just by repeatedly tapping 1. Not my idea of fun gameplay experience.

 

Difficulty slider would be perfect. I'd turn every boost down in a heartbeat.

I was 110% AGAINST level sync...and I was 110% wrong about it (for me). I LOVE the freedom it allows me to help other players, get help from other players, and I love how it's made every planet meaningful again...but I can also see where it makes the vanilla game waaaay too easy.

 

I really wonder just how difficult it would be to have a check box on your character to level down, say 2-3 levels. It would be using all existing technology - no difficulty needs to change on any planets, just your personal level, which is already calculated and adjusted, this would just change the level it adjusts you to from 23 to say 20, or whatever. This really can't be that difficult a thing to implement.

[Keta]

Level synch did have one "advantage" -- you could no longer solo the HK-51 missions that required "hard mode" (the loyalty chip mission).

 

On the other hand if you're allergic to grouping (as I am most of the time), that wasn't really an improvement.

[Ardrossan]

I had no idea this worked outside of the event - that's very interesting news.

 

Can you get it when the event isn't ongoing from the Gree vendor in the CM area on Fleet?

 

No. It's a Gree that shows up in the combat/pvp area, and he only sells that.

 

I have a hunch, however, that it works differently on subs than it does for pref/F2P. Even with it on, you get more xp from 1-20 than you do from 21-70. The reason for that is that prefs and F2P and subs level the same [minus sub rested xp] from 1-20, but for non-subs, it gets turned off after that.

 

That's why looking at the recommended planet level is important, because it would be difficult to stay at the 'right' level if you do all planetaries, exploration quests, and class quests from the starter planet to NS, much less if you also do the FPs along the way, pvp, and the heroics past the starter planet. It's not QUITE as difficult as 2.0 leveling. But it's better than nothing.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Ardrossan

[Damask_Rose]

But...I also think it would be a complete waste of time. Players who claim the game is too easy are running their 50th toon through a story they've already done a dozen times before with a full compliment of Legacy gear and class buffs. .

 

It's not just jaded veterans. Over on Reddit I regularly see brand new players questioning how ridiculously easy this game is. It can be very off-putting to people who want to enjoy the whole game, leveling content included. Deliberately gimping yourself is counter-intuitive. Typically people who enjoy leveling content in games enjoy the sense of progressing their characters - gaining levels, getting better gear, getting new skills. Our iteration of level sync negates all of that. Levels are meaningless, gear is meaningless, new skills are meaningless. The only sense of progress left is how far along the story you are. While I still enjoy that enough to keep me sub'd, even that has been compromised by the anti-climactic story boss fights where no amount of self gimping makes them challenging anymore.

 

When I played City of Heroes they put in a terminal that allowed quite a bit of customization for instances. It was well used and people did not just park it at the easiest settings. I think having something similar here would not only make existing players much happier, but make the game more appealing to new players as well. (As a side note, their difficulty slider went from mobs being one level under yours to eight levels over, where as our mobs are two levels under to eight levels under depending on where in the world we are. Some heroics mobs are greyed out!)

 

Level synch did have one "advantage" -- you could no longer solo the HK-51 missions that required "hard mode" (the loyalty chip mission).

 

On the other hand if you're allergic to grouping (as I am most of the time), that wasn't really an improvement.

 

You can get the loyalty chip from solo mode.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Damask_Rose

[Kiesu]

I was 110% AGAINST level sync...and I was 110% wrong about it (for me). I LOVE the freedom it allows me to help other players, get help from other players, and I love how it's made every planet meaningful again...but I can also see where it makes the vanilla game waaaay too easy.

 

I really wonder just how difficult it would be to have a check box on your character to level down, say 2-3 levels. It would be using all existing technology - no difficulty needs to change on any planets, just your personal level, which is already calculated and adjusted, this would just change the level it adjusts you to from 23 to say 20, or whatever. This really can't be that difficult a thing to implement.

And I was 110% pro lvlsync, I thought doing old quests would be cool again once reduced to proper level to complete them! How wrong I was... Well, it sure made you klick 1 a few more times on max level character, but made everything else so much easier it really didn't help anything. I'm happy how sync is working per-se, I wouldn't want to remove it. But I really really want the boosts gone from my personal experience. Uff

It's not just jaded veterans. Over on Reddit I regularly see brand new players questioning how ridiculously easy this game is. It can be very off-putting to people who want to enjoy the whole game, leveling content included. Deliberately gimping yourself is counter-intuitive. Typically people who enjoy leveling content in games enjoy the sense of progressing their characters - gaining levels, getting better gear, getting new skills. Our iteration of level sync negates all of that. Levels are meaningless, gear is meaningless, new skills are meaningless. The only sense of progress left is how far along the story you are. While I still enjoy that enough to keep me sub'd, even that has been compromised by the anti-climactic story boss fights where no amount of self gimping makes them challenging anymore.

 

When I played City of Heroes they put in a terminal that allowed quite a bit of customization for instances. It was well used and people did not just park it at the easiest settings. I think having something similar here would not only make existing players much happier, but make the game more appealing to new players as well. (As a side note, their difficulty slider went from mobs being one level under yours to eight levels over, where as our mobs are two levels under to eight levels under depending on where in the world we are. Some heroics mobs are greyed out!)

This is true, the only sense of progression you get trough lvling anymore is if you play lowbie/midbie PVP, since not having all your skills actually matters there, unlike it does for the actual lv progression content.

 

Terminal of that type would be great- but most fighting in swtor happens on open space rather than instances, so it wouldn't help terribly much if it won't affect your character outside of instances... But it'd certainly help fix the wet-noodle nemesis on lowbie planets, I think.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Kiesu

[MandFlurry]

Maybe re-read my post more carefully, because you projected quite a lot on me that I did not actually say. Tell you what.. I will color code my response to you.. maybe it will help you better understand my viewpoint on the topic.. which you are of course free to disagree with.. but please do so without the passive aggressive slur.

 

There is honest and objective criticism presented by players, and there is the over the top, angry, foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric that serves no purpose other then to vent venom at a studio.. about a game of all things. A game.

 

I support the former, and even encourage it, regardless if I agree with it or not. I refuse to support the latter.. because all it does is drown out actual objective criticisms and suggestions.

 

And honestly, I could care less if you feel sorry for me or not..as it is just a passive aggressive drive by on your part to try to discredit my viewpoint. It is not my fault you are angry.

 

Note: I clearly saw that Penny Ann was referring to THIS TYPE of poster... and PennyAnn is absolutely correct.

 

Yeah, there are plenty of idiots that only complain just because they have some mental issues, and don't have a life. Then there are others that complain for the betterment of the game and should always be constructive, which is sometimes hard to do, it goes both ways.