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The Bioware hate vs. a voice of reason.


PennyAnn

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You guys are not wrong, and I agree. Criticism is good. I even say so in my original post. It's when you are so annoyed and disgusted with Bioware that they can NEVER do anything right that it's a problem. People that will find fault no matter what they are doing. Or, in the case of the new crafted Tier 5 gear - things they haven't even done yet!

 

You are missing the distinction between criticism or feedback, and just being hateful to Bioware because they can do nothing to please you any longer. That's the difference I'm talking about.

 

Like, when even if they gave you a million free cartel coins you'd find some way to call it a scam... I'm talking about you!

 

I hope that's a little more clear.

 

.

 

Quoted for emphasis.

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When will you get it? Let me put it in big letters so you understand.

 

THE LATTER IS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS!

 

Look at SWG we told the Dev's outright after they threw the NGE on us to revert the game back to the Pre-CU as that's what we the community wanted. They ignored us. Now there's no more SWG and why is that? We warned people and told them how the SWG Dev's treated us. People made up their own minds and decided SWG wasn't worth the time or trouble. And really? SOE could have fixed things easy with a Pre-CU server or putting elements of the Pre-CU in. They didn't. We got ignored.

 

And that's what has been going on in gaming as a whole. Look at Battlefield V, Dev's are ignoring the community and the game has barely any pre-orders. WoW ignored it's community and it's in damage control mode. Publishers are ignoring us telling them to remove gambling boxes and microtransactions, now no one will buy or play the games with them and are warning people off.

 

We tried being nice, it doesn't work and it never will.

 

So since your beloved SWG went away, it didn't work at all.

 

And please quit spewing nonsense about WoW. It is not in damage control mode. That's a Reddit meme with no factual basis behind it at all.

 

People buy and play games with microtransactions in them all the time. There are almost no games in existence right now that don't have them for at least cosmetic items. Again, you are ranting.

 

You are the exact type of person I made this post to address. People that could be handed the world from a gaming company, but because of something they did in the past to anger you (and even if you were totally and completely in your right to be angry), you would find a reason to spit hate at them. When you do that enough, and there isn't a good reason for the specific things you're ranting about (you're still just mad about things in the past that are coloring your opinion about every single thing they do), then you appear irrational. And I'm sorry, and not trying to be rude when I say this, it's just true.

 

There is a massive difference between rightful criticism and lashing out because you're mad at Bioware, or big gaming companies in general. Thank you for presenting the perfect example of this so that I could clarify that I was not ever finding fault with posting here about legitimate complaints or criticism about the game in order to push for improvements. Very drastic difference.

 

==============================================

Edited to add: The overall point here is that it is fine, and right, and good to have concerns about the game, post about them here, and push for change that would improve the game. The reason I posted what I did was to encourage you to think about whether or not you are just so mad at Bioware they could never do anything to win back even a little of your harsh judgement in favor of some, "Hey, this is good!". When you get to that state, and you are just posting about how horrible Bioware is, or the game is, and there is nothing that could ever satisfy you or make you feel like things are going in a good direction for once... then you become like Chicken Little. The sky may be falling one day, legitimately... but you've pre-guessed it so many times now on perfectly clear days that no one takes you seriously.

 

The post was just meant as food for thought. Are you at the point where Bioware could do nothing right, no matter what? If so, then you are an example of what I was trying to point out. If not, then I merely presented this as something to think about on your journey with this game when you're posting here. Recognition when you look at yourself in the mirror is a highly underrated quality, and all of us (myself included) benefit from seeing ourselves clearly.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading. Keep posting and keep caring about this game. The reason I am still posting here after not even playing the game is because I care about it, too.

 

.

Edited by PennyAnn
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SNIP..

 

It was never Reason Vs Hate. It's Reason and Hate Vs Negligence, Incompetence, and Indifference.

 

Thats a solid statement when it comes to player vs bioware around here. Nicely written.

 

 

The post was just meant as food for thought. ]

 

Here is some food for thought. Maybe bioware puts out a patch that isn't filed with bugs and gamers can see the better side of things. Instead of the current meme of so many bugs we consider it content now.

 

Maybe bioware puts out more playable and worth repeating content than hot swapped items on the cash shop and gamers view of bioware could have a real chance of changing.

 

You make a decent point about feedback and criticism but when those things are given in the hope to make things better and time after time bioware screws it up, well thats on bioware, not the game or gamer. I also think you missed what gamers have seen bioware do and don't don't when it comes to the feedback over the years, be it conquest, GC and a great number of ignored things that have been poorly produced or just warped so terribly you wish you hadn't given feedback at all.

 

Food for thought. Maybe bioware should get on the stick and get this game into a better position than they have put it in with things like screwed up server merges alienating entire continents as if they were just acceptable losses.

 

bioware wants to be treated differently? You want gamers to give them some benefit of the doubt that they can do good? Then bioware must manage, design and development differently to change how they are viewed because if they continue on the road we have seen for the past while, don't get your hopes up for feedback or criticism to change much if at all.

Edited by Quraswren
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So since your beloved SWG went away, it didn't work at all.

 

And please quit spewing nonsense about WoW. It is not in damage control mode. That's a Reddit meme with no factual basis behind it at all.

 

People buy and play games with microtransactions in them all the time. There are almost no games in existence right now that don't have them for at least cosmetic items. Again, you are ranting.

 

You are the exact type of person I made this post to address. People that could be handed the world from a gaming company, but because of something they did in the past to anger you (and even if you were totally and completely in your right to be angry), you would find a reason to spit hate at them. When you do that enough, and there isn't a good reason for the specific things you're ranting about (you're still just mad about things in the past that are coloring your opinion about every single thing they do), then you appear irrational. And I'm sorry, and not trying to be rude when I say this, it's just true.

 

There is a massive difference between rightful criticism and lashing out because you're mad at Bioware, or big gaming companies in general. Thank you for presenting the perfect example of this so that I could clarify that I was not ever finding fault with posting here about legitimate complaints or criticism about the game in order to push for improvements. Very drastic difference.

 

==============================================

Edited to add: The overall point here is that it is fine, and right, and good to have concerns about the game, post about them here, and push for change that would improve the game. The reason I posted what I did was to encourage you to think about whether or not you are just so mad at Bioware they could never do anything to win back even a little of your harsh judgement in favor of some, "Hey, this is good!". When you get to that state, and you are just posting about how horrible Bioware is, or the game is, and there is nothing that could ever satisfy you or make you feel like things are going in a good direction for once... then you become like Chicken Little. The sky may be falling one day, legitimately... but you've pre-guessed it so many times now on perfectly clear days that no one takes you seriously.

 

The post was just meant as food for thought. Are you at the point where Bioware could do nothing right, no matter what? If so, then you are an example of what I was trying to point out. If not, then I merely presented this as something to think about on your journey with this game when you're posting here. Recognition when you look at yourself in the mirror is a highly underrated quality, and all of us (myself included) benefit from seeing ourselves clearly.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading. Keep posting and keep caring about this game. The reason I am still posting here after not even playing the game is because I care about it, too.

 

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SWG went away due to SOE ignoring it's Players that told them, "We don't want the NGE we want the Pre-CU!" Oh and fact the game was starting to pick up again before the CU as people saw the freedom SWG offered where as all WoW offered was theme park game play.

 

Fact WoW is in full damage control mode and it's not just on Reddit like you say. We've had a number of well known WoW YouTubers come out and show how badly WoW has gotten with BfA. Don't believe me folks here we go, just watch this.

 

As for Microtransactions? You are right that I want them gone. All they have led to are gambling boxes something that has been shown to be gambling by a number of people. And before you tell me, "It's just cosmetic items." Here's the thing it's been a slippery slope and it's been shown that the system does not work. All of those items should be in game loot that you get from doing very hard content. Not something you buy for $29.95 from the item shop.

 

It's clear to me that you are just going to white knight rather then take a hard look at TOR and see that everything we have told Bioware has fallen onto deaf ears. And that right there is why gamers everywhere are angry! We are tired of spending money on something that we want to enjoy but those running it go about running it into the ground. Just like SOE did with SWG rather then hear a community that knows the game very well as we play it.

 

We have told them countless times we want the game to be harder so new people can learn the game. We told them that we didn't want single player story we wanted MMO content like PvP and Raids. We have said no to loot boxes countless times. We ask for major patches that don't need all kinds of other patches to fix what went wrong with this patch.

 

We want the respect we should be given as we are all consumers and it is our money they wish to have. And if they are not going to show us that respect and do what we ask of them? Know what if this game has to follow SWG so other Dev's learn? So be it as they should have learned with SWG.

 

The community can make a game or break it.

Edited by AshenK
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My Issues with swtor:

 

1) Real issue lack of vision to improve upon the way chapters were implemented and how users interacted with them,

 

2) Same bugs week in week out

 

3) They weaken the sith sorcerer Madness Damage too much, while over improving the snipers, operatives, smugglers, bounty hunters for PVP warzones.

 

4) Returning back to the Emperor verse Republic and returning old foes is not improving on the storyline and reminds me of the boring old days of 1.2 to 3.9.

 

5) After the A Traitor Among the Chiss quest end they should have given story line based around love, secrets and risings birth of new challengers to the Alliance commander reign that lasted two thousand centuries then killing off old foes, companions and then the death of the alliance commander.

 

6) Reformation of the dark force entities that battle for power, greed and ultimate prize domination for the empire side, that leads to the discover that the Jedi have Hundred of thousands of Young Jedi's trained in the ancient arts of combat whom are protecting the birth of the future Jedi master or the chosen one in there quest to turn these young Jedi's with apprentices to the dark side or destroy them they Dark Forces themselves are wiped out as we know them during this period uprising's between species of the new worlds are creating headaches for the Jedi's who trying to stop it and protect them from the Dark forces entities whom own secret worlds are hidden from the Jedi.

 

7) While the republic side should been about seeking new world's and protection of the new republic with birth of the future Jedi master hidden secret kept by the old masters revealing what turned the fallen Jedi's into the Sith Masters that seek to destroy the Jedi's revealing the connection to the forbidden art of combat that lead to the first Jedi's powers and teaching that created the force knowledge how it was advanced by the fallen Jedi's.

 

8) In amongst this rivalries between different Non force users species that lead to confrontation and discover of where the Jedi's been hiding the birth of there future master in the battle to protect this new master and to prevent him falling under the spell of dark forces they send out Hundred of Thousands Young Jedi's to crate a path of escape with each Young Jedi having there own Apprentices which you can choose which one you want to fight as in the new begin time of the Jedi's rising that leads to the wiping out of what we know the dark force users or a least though in know existence.

 

9) In this quests between villains, dark forces and Jedi's the new Jedi master grows up to take his place among the thousands galaxies he and his followers must protect and prevent the return of the dark forces while quelling the fighting between species in the new worlds being discovered.

 

9) Year ends with battle on planet that houses hundred of light and dark force species living together for billion of centuries peaceful in co existence unknown to the newly reform Jedi council which against the Jedi Masters wishes decide that in order to prevent the return of dark forces they must destroy all's its inhabits triggering a new galaxy war of worlds as the planet unleash the Darkness force energy that over take the young Jedi apprentice minds that creates the new sith entities much more powerful than before..

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PennyAnn,

Very well said. Sadly, there is a lot of negativity around here these days. Some of it, I understand, some of it I think you have to accept that things are where they are and adjust your expectations. There really is a great community of players behind this game, and I wish there were more voices of positivity to go with it. Maybe some of this will change later on, but who really can tell.

And I know what you mean about things getting old. Sometimes it gets tough trying to figure out how to keep playing the same content without losing interest (one of the reasons I love ranked--constantly changing). In any case, have fun playing WoW! See you back for 6.0 ;)

 

Best of luck to you, friend.

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I am sorry, but whatever point you are trying to make is invalid, simply because you are using WoW as an example.

 

I haven't played WoW since Karazhan was re-introduced, but whatever problems WoW players have with WoW, it's nothing compared to the problems SWTOR has due to enormous difference in how these MMO are developed and the amount of content they have and receive.

 

So the whole "we shouldnt hate on developers of SWTOR because somebody said that somebody else shoudn't hate on developers of WoW " really doesn't fly.

Edited by Gelious
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I am sorry, but whatever point you are trying to make is invalid, simply because you are using WoW as an example.

 

I haven't played WoW since Karazhan was re-introduced, but whatever problems WoW players have with WoW, it's nothing compared to the problems SWTOR has due to enormous difference in how these MMO are developed and the amount of content they have and receive.

 

So the whole "we shouldnt hate on developers of SWTOR because somebody said that somebody else shoudn't hate on developers of WoW " really doesn't fly.

 

If you took it as me trying to compare the two games, then I did not communicate my thoughts very well. See, it has nothing to do with the games themselves, and everything to do with the people who play them, criticize them (sometimes rightly so), and post on the associated game's forums. They are both video games with passionate player bases that have forums and other outlets that see lots of feedback. That's the only comparison I am making between the two, and it could be made for any other game as well.

 

Your distillation of my point just proves that you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Of course, if that is what I was saying it wouldn't fly, but it is not the point at all. It is about our attitudes as players and the feedback we give about it, but it could be applied even more broadly to just about any situation or scenario. You misunderstand what I have said and have taken the most narrow view of it that's possible when you make it about WoW vs. SWTOR.

 

*shrug* I tried. You all don't have to agree that people get to a point that they are so mad at a company that the ranting gets ridiculous and is really about being mad at the company over other things. We can agree to disagree about it happening if you like. But I just look around here and elsewhere and see it too clearly to deny.

 

Not every criticism is "hate", and much of the criticism of this game and how it has been managed by Bioware is completely legit. In fact, I share sentiments with all of you about all of it. But when all you have is negativity about a game or it's developer team I have to wonder why you keep paying for that and posting about it. Just seems like that perpetuates your unhappiness and that's no way to live.

 

(In before the response to this is: "Don't tell me how to live!"). I've said my piece about it, hoping for reflection upon making sure we're criticizing Bioware for the correct things. The rest is out of my hands.

 

.

Edited by PennyAnn
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Actually OP, you have it somewhat wrong.. perhaps you believe there is a passionate SWToR fanbase, but you'd be guilty of not paying attention.

I'm actually somewhat shocked. WoW got boring, at least till 8.1 arrives, so I decided to pop back into SWToR to catchup on the last couple of years. I was stung, to see I had to rename toons I named in the prelaunch, from both Prophecy of Five, and Harbinger. I expect I'm not the last toon in SWToR with the Founder title.

 

My point is, this is not a fanbase, it's the last holdouts.. Prophecy at launch was a major pvp server, a place to be, as was Harbinger as a pve server.

 

Hate or Reason, it's quite obvious neither worked. So, am I the last Founder?

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You guys are not wrong, and I agree. Criticism is good. I even say so in my original post. It's when you are so annoyed and disgusted with Bioware that they can NEVER do anything right that it's a problem. People that will find fault no matter what they are doing. Or, in the case of the new crafted Tier 5 gear - things they haven't even done yet!

 

You are missing the distinction between criticism or feedback, and just being hateful to Bioware because they can do nothing to please you any longer. That's the difference I'm talking about.

 

Like, when even if they gave you a million free cartel coins you'd find some way to call it a scam... I'm talking about you!

 

I hope that's a little more clear.

 

.

I sincerely hope you didn't mean "me" when you said "you"??? Is that aimed at me??

 

As for complaining about the tier 5 gear now - HELL YES I'LL complain NOW. After it's released, it's too damn late Penny. If we don't bring up our concerns now, when do you suggest we do it to get them addressed? I'm concerned about PvPers. I'm concerned about the mats. I'm concerned about the schematics. A new tier of gear is a pretty damn big thing Penny...this is not a wait and see thing...it 100% impacts balance for everyone, not just raiders. We already know our major concerns with new gear - there's no reason not to voice our concerns now.

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I sincerely hope you didn't mean "me" when you said "you"??? Is that aimed at me??

 

As for complaining about the tier 5 gear now - HELL YES I'LL complain NOW. After it's released, it's too damn late Penny. If we don't bring up our concerns now, when do you suggest we do it to get them addressed? I'm concerned about PvPers. I'm concerned about the mats. I'm concerned about the schematics. A new tier of gear is a pretty damn big thing Penny...this is not a wait and see thing...it 100% impacts balance for everyone, not just raiders. We already know our major concerns with new gear - there's no reason not to voice our concerns now.

 

Not just all that but many of our gamers have just got to the point of accepting GC.

 

GC started off as one of the worst things bioware has ever done when it comes to gear but over time they worked on it and have it in a decent place that works. We have a huge guild and many mouths but finally most have started to accept GC. Finally.

 

Now, gearing will not be, do any content with a bit of RNG, for your grind time but crafting. In their eyes a worse grind, bringing in not on only new mats but schematics as well.

 

Now we get to start the acceptance train and negativity all over again and for every reason you brought up Tux. bioware isn't helping control the negativity due to their own actions that tend to go against what they already have in place and thats just in this one area that is causing problems when there are so many others problems guild leaders have to contend with as well just to keep things together. It's no wonder bioware gets the negativity they do.

Edited by Quraswren
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I am going to write a lot here, I didn't mean to initially but I want to give Penny a send off along with my sentiments regarding what they wrote.

 

I totally understand what Penny is saying and agree with it. Penny is not "white-knighting" anything, people are offended and taking the original thread personal when none of it was personally driven at anyone.

 

Penny no longer plays. Penny has quit the sub. Exactly what motive would Penny have to "white-knight" anything BW does? Penny was a very vocal detractor regarding the most recent conquest changes. No one pointed out the flaws and things in conquest with detailed exquisite explanations like Penny did, no one.

 

Basically this thread evolved into a contentious battlefield because that's how the internet works today. Everyone takes everything personal and when they disagree with what they read they have to turn it into an argument and point fingers at someone to blame for perceived sleights.

 

@Penny, basically when you described how people/gamers can get to a point where they find fault with everything a game does, sure that can happen. However, much of the moaning and groaning on gaming forums is done by people who no matter what state a game is in will do this and that is one thing; a malcontent.

 

Now sure, some people can grow bored of a game and become unhappy with it, but a reasonable person understands as any activity that grows stale, you ought to go find a new one. Games are this way too.

 

For some reason though, some people, I like to call them malcontents don't get this. Instead they expect the game to entertain them forever and if it doesn't then it's the devs fault for not making them happy.

 

Malcontents are always this way, it's not because they are reasonable and grew bored on a game, they simply prefer moaning and groaning and the fact they are given anonymity over the internet emboldens this behavior even more. They simply see bad in everything and prefer to focus on that instead of the good.

 

I mean, honestly... When someone moans and groans over insignificant things, do we entertain it IRL? I know I don't. I either stay away from these type of people, or if I actually have a relationship with them I tell them to shut the **** up, no one wants to hear them make mountains out of molehills.

 

Nothing on a game deserves the spite and hate some people spew at others for flaws the game has... It's a game people! I like to think this behavior is manifested from a child or angsty teenager but truth be told we know it is usually created by a young adult.

 

Anyway, that's my perspective on it.

 

Penny, I enjoy reading your posts they are thoughtful and sensible and nothing you ever wrote was ever directed at anyone insultingly. People that attacked you over what you shared and wrote here are missing the point and being petty. I will miss your posts, and it's sad that so much of your energy in the end went into trying to get BW to improve conquest after so many flawed changes to no avail.

 

One thing is true, the forums are much less active and the population is much less passionate about swtor, this can't be denied. Hopefully BW use what resources they have on meaningful changes that improve the game and someday in the future Penny and many of the other very passionate gamers who left swtor will come back and find some passion again for this game.

Edited by Lhancelot
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I sincerely hope you didn't mean "me" when you said "you"??? Is that aimed at me??

 

As for complaining about the tier 5 gear now - HELL YES I'LL complain NOW. After it's released, it's too damn late Penny. If we don't bring up our concerns now, when do you suggest we do it to get them addressed? I'm concerned about PvPers. I'm concerned about the mats. I'm concerned about the schematics. A new tier of gear is a pretty damn big thing Penny...this is not a wait and see thing...it 100% impacts balance for everyone, not just raiders. We already know our major concerns with new gear - there's no reason not to voice our concerns now.

 

No, it was meant more as the general "you". When one has nothing but bad things to say about Bioware even when they do something good... which is not you. You typically will give credit where it is due, and only post criticism with things you genuinely have a problem with, in my experience here.

 

Again, I am not at all suggesting that you don't discuss the new system of gear. The difference is when you declare the game "dead" or "pay to win" or talk about what a huge disaster it is without giving any constructive feedback in order to ensure that it does not become that. Then you are just bashing Bioware because you hate Bioware and nothing they would do would make you happy. (Again, using the "general you", not saying you specifically).

 

So again, I am not saying: Don't criticize! Don't post your concerns! And if you think that is what I'm talking about then you are reading me all wrong here. There is a HUGE difference between bashing Bioware and the game no matter what they do and offering no suggestions for improvement because you just plain hate Bioware... and suggesting improvements over the system (even though we have absolutely zero idea what that system is going to be other than a few tidbits from a livestream). Showing your concern in order to push for improvement is not what I'm saying here.

 

I'm not sure how much more plain I can make the difference.

 

.

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I am going to write a lot here, I didn't mean to initially but I want to give Penny a send off along with my sentiments regarding what they wrote.

 

I totally understand what Penny is saying and agree with it. Penny is not "white-knighting" anything, people are offended and taking the original thread personal when none of it was personally driven at anyone.

 

Penny no longer plays. Penny has quit the sub. Exactly what motive would Penny have to "white-knight" anything BW does? Penny was a very vocal detractor regarding the most recent conquest changes. No one pointed out the flaws and things in conquest with detailed exquisite explanations like Penny did, no one.

 

Basically this thread evolved into a contentious battlefield because that's how the internet works today. Everyone takes everything personal and when they disagree with what they read they have to turn it into an argument and point fingers at someone to blame for perceived sleights.

 

@Penny, basically when you described how people/gamers can get to a point where they find fault with everything a game does, sure that can happen. However, much of the moaning and groaning on gaming forums is done by people who no matter what state a game is in will do this and that is one thing; a malcontent.

 

Now sure, some people can grow bored of a game and become unhappy with it, but a reasonable person understands as any activity that grows stale, you ought to go find a new one. Games are this way too.

 

For some reason though, some people, I like to call them malcontents don't get this. Instead they expect the game to entertain them forever and if it doesn't then it's the devs fault for not making them happy.

 

Malcontents are always this way, it's not because they are reasonable and grew bored on a game, they simply prefer moaning and groaning and the fact they are given anonymity over the internet emboldens this behavior even more. They simply see bad in everything and prefer to focus on that instead of the good.

 

I mean, honestly... When someone moans and groans over insignificant things, do we entertain it IRL? I know I don't. I either stay away from these type of people, or if I actually have a relationship with them I tell them to shut the **** up, no one wants to hear them make mountains out of molehills.

 

Nothing on a game deserves the spite and hate some people spew at others for flaws the game has... It's a game people! I like to think this behavior is manifested from a child or angsty teenager but truth be told we know it is usually created by a young adult.

 

Anyway, that's my perspective on it.

 

Penny, I enjoy reading your posts they are thoughtful and sensible and nothing you ever wrote was ever directed at anyone insultingly. People that attacked you over what you shared and wrote here are missing the point and being petty. I will miss your posts, and it's sad that so much of your energy in the end went into trying to get BW to improve conquest after so many flawed changes to no avail.

 

One thing is true, the forums are much less active and the population is much less passionate about swtor, this can't be denied. Hopefully BW use what resources they have on meaningful changes that improve the game and someday in the future Penny and many of the other very passionate gamers who left swtor will come back and find some passion again for this game.

 

Lhancelot, my friend. Thank you for this. I appreciate your kind words and probably even more that you get where I'm coming from with this post. I know that you are right about people being determined to just rant and be angry, especially over the internet in this day and age. It's all I see anywhere I look (not just here) and I feel like social media + 24 hour news has created a chasm that we may never recover from in our lifetimes. Add the internet, and outrage for outrage's sake is so prevalent that to a reasonable person it starts to just become ridiculous and almost impossible to take seriously.

 

Anyway, I've been a proponent of expressing criticism here, and have done it a ton in the past myself. I've been here since launch! I've had a lot of things to post about along with the rest of you that have played this game, and most of it has been rather critical. I have absolutely no problem with people saying: "Hey, this concerns me and I think it would work better this way, or that way". It's crucial to the state of the game that this feedback be heard, and unfortunately here it is most often not heard at all. Or heard and misinterpreted.

 

In the case of Conquest, they heard us talk about wanting to get alts through the system more easily and added "kill a bunch of mobs on a planet" rampages. These are stupidly easy and mindlessly grindy. They help achieve the goal for those willing to do them, but miss the entire aim of Conquest originally: which was to encourage people to play all parts of the game, even if they had been doing it for years. They forgot the entire design goal behind Conquest and made it into something worse. Something that guarantees planetary titles for only the largest monstrosity guilds (and I describe them as such having run one myself) and forces anyone who wants those achievements to join one of those two or three guilds per server because they are the only ones who will ever be able to get your title. It's the opposite of the original design goal of Conquest. It actually forces people to play the game LESS than it used to, and to ignore all the parts of the game that took development time (operations, PvP maps, flashpoints, etc.) over just grinding mobs in a wide open space on a planet somewhere. Completely stupid.

 

But, I digress. I only post about the Conquest stuff to emphasize that I get it. Feedback is crucial and I am not in any way suggesting that anybody stop giving feedback or being critical. As someone who has done a ton of that myself, I would have to be a complete hypocrite to suggest such a thing.

 

No, what I've been trying to put forth here is that we need to be sure we are criticizing the right things for the right reasons, and doing so with the intent of helping the game, not just trash talking it or Bioware just because we're done with them and they will never do right by us in our minds no matter what they do.

 

T-minus 5 days or so for me. Thanks to all who had kind things to say in my parting from the forums, or back in May when I parted from the game. There are a lot of great people in SWTOR and I will miss trading thoughtful dialogue and ideas with many of you here. I'm a never say never person though, so if there is good reason to come back I'm sure that I likely will. Until then, be well my friends!

 

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Not every criticism is "hate", and much of the criticism of this game and how it has been managed by Bioware is completely legit. In fact, I share sentiments with all of you about all of it. But when all you have is negativity about a game or it's developer team I have to wonder why you keep paying for that and posting about it. Just seems like that perpetuates your unhappiness and that's no way to live.

 

(In before the response to this is: "Don't tell me how to live!"). I've said my piece about it, hoping for reflection upon making sure we're criticizing Bioware for the correct things. The rest is out of my hands.

 

That attitude is hardly exclusive to gaming. A lot of people just have that attitude about things in general. I saw this a lot when I lived in another country for several years. I'd frequent websites with my own native speakers to keep in touch with home, in a way, but these were people who had been in this other country for many more years than me, some for decades more. I could not believe how much these people hated the country they were living in. Every single story, related or not, had to have 9 out of 10 posts from hateful people adding in non sequiturs and tangents just for the opportunity to continue bashing the country. I couldn't believe these malcontents couldn't just leave if they hated it so much.

 

That almost 100% mirrors the way most threads in here go now. Someone mentions an unrelated companion and suddenly everyone has to bring up a very different specific companion just because it's their pet hate and no one even ever brought it up except the person who can't just let that hate go, or at the very, very least save it for a specifically-related thread.

 

Or someone will talk about a broken [insert pet hate here] and soon the thread will devolve into arguing over [insert completely unrelated pet hate here] that no one ever brought up, and the original pet hate gets ignored and the devs just roll their eyes at another ****-show thread that is VERY easy to just ignore from that point on.

 

Anyway, it's all well-trod territory at this point.

 

Familiarity breeds contempt

Misery loves company

Schadenfreude

 

Those three seem to drive a lot of the hate. It's getting more and more tiresome and I come to the forums less and less anymore and just go back to what I've been doing for almost 7 years and enjoy the game that we have and hope they don't get a memo from EA anytime soon telling them to shutter the whole thing.

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Again, I am not at all suggesting that you don't discuss the new system of gear. The difference is when you declare the game "dead" or "pay to win" or talk about what a huge disaster it is without giving any constructive feedback in order to ensure that it does not become that. Then you are just bashing Bioware because you hate Bioware and nothing they would do would make you happy. (Again, using the "general you", not saying you specifically).

Heh, anyone who is calling the system "pay to win" can't even comprehend it's meaning. Appealing to their "voice of reason" and quotation of definition didn't work out in their own threads, idk what a new thread asking them to think it over again is realistically going to achieve at this point.

 

Dead is almost a troll though, since technically that's not happening either, but dead is still in slang and meme use, not necessarily used in it's serious meaning at all. I wouldn't be so worried about it. "Game is ded bois", it's just a silly common comment people throw out in ques to activate the conversation in whatever lobby they were in momentarily.

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I did quit playing the game, but had purchased a long term sub (as I had for the last 7 years) that is getting ready to expire. I haven't actively played the game since May.

 

.

 

 

I'm not far behind, after playing since beta (with a short absence a bit after the game went semi-F2P), I've let my subscription lapse. We shall see what happens around 6.0 time (if that actually comes), but in the mean time there's nothing to keep me here.

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It IS already "pay 2 win" : The subscription is = the "pay" in this equation ...

Technically true...

If we wouldn't have f2p players onboard like originally though, this wouldn't even be discussed. It'd just be pay to play.

Was referring to the recent outburst of people thinking crafted gear was P2W, which it isn't.

Edited by Kiesu
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Where is the reason in this posting? I can't find it at all.

Also, I find it kind of ironic that that self-proclaimed "voice of reason" which doesn't deserve this term even remotely comes from someone who leaves SWTOR...

 

Fact is, most of the criticism for Bioware (or EA putting not enough money/effort into this game/brand since Bioware probably fiddles around with this game with like 10 people or so and can't do better even if they would intend to) is so extremely justified that THIS represents the voice of reason, not what you have written.

Comparing the problems or not existing problems of WoW and SWTOR is outstanding absurd too. They act on a totally different level and WoW players probably often ciritize stuff out of a luxury situation. SWTOR playeras don't - not even remotely.

I really wish it would not be the case and I diskile people as well who criticize everything as a kind of self purpose, but the big picture Bioware and EA delivers for SWTOR is one big area to be criticized full force.

Although Keith tries to, I give him that, but what can he do with not enough money? He can't get enough employees and not the best ones to deliver stuff in an appropriate amount and in an appropriate time span and with at least SOME kind of quality control.

Edited by Khaleg
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Where is the reason in this posting? I can't find it at all.

Also, I find it kind of ironic that that self-proclaimed "voice of reason" which doesn't deserve this term even remotely comes from someone who leaves SWTOR...

 

Fact is, most of the criticism for Bioware (or EA putting not enough money/effort into this game/brand since Bioware probably fiddles around with this game with like 10 people or so and can't do better even if they would intend to) is so extremely justified that THIS represents the voice of reason, not what you have written.

Comparing the problems or not existing problems of WoW and SWTOR is outstanding absurd too. They act on a totally different level and WoW players probably often ciritize stuff out of a luxury situation. SWTOR playeras don't - not even remotely.

I really wish it would not be the case and I diskile people as well who criticize everything as a kind of self purpose, but the big picture Bioware and EA delivers for SWTOR is one big area to be criticized full force.

Although Keith tries to, I give him that, but what can he do with not enough money? He can't get enough employees and not the best ones to deliver stuff in an appropriate amount and in an appropriate time span and with at least SOME kind of quality control.

 

We don't know what all hamstrings BW or the devs, yes we can theorize and say what we think it is but we don't know, you don't know.

 

It's a game and expecting endless entertainment isn't reasonable that is my take on it. Even hardcore WOW gamers take breaks, majority of gamers take breaks from their favorite games.

 

Complaints can be very justified, I am not saying boredom is the only cause of complaints but I feel some of complaints are rooted out of pure boredom or chronic malcontent.

 

Success deemed can be relative and in some eyes swtor could be viewed as a success however I honestly believe with the largest sci-fi IP on the planet it's hard to understand this game struggles with funding.

 

It's like sitting on a gold mine but only having a toothpick to dig for the gold. Who would choose to have Star Wars placed on the back burner while a new titled game unknown to the entire world is placed front and center fully cooked on the front burner? EA I guess.

Edited by Lhancelot
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