Hebruixe Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I'd be ok with the second option as well.. Another MMO tried time/dimension travel. The xpac was junk and the story was worse. ugh don't remind me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mubrak Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Mako is a implied to be a clone of her 'sister' and the others. So yes, cloning technology does exist. Creating a bunch of same-aged clones like Mako's sisters (i.e. dekaplets or even more) is early space age technology: take a zygote, separate the cells on division, implant them to host mothers - clones. The question is why, not how. The more difficult part is cloning an individual, the obvious use would be creating copies of your best supersoldier, and the new technology in the prequels allowed the supersoldier clones to grow up in a reasonable timeframe. Edited August 16, 2018 by Mubrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Do we even have the technology to clone someone yet? We are WAYS away in the past from Kaminoans introducing cloning to the Republic. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any evidence having cloning capacities at this time in the universe. Even the clone looking fellows in Directive 7 were actually droids, not clones. As a matter of fact. We do, Mako being one example. And in Fatal Alliance you have the clone of Endol Ax. Who is a force-sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Do we even have the technology to clone someone yet? We are WAYS away in the past from Kaminoans introducing cloning to the Republic. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any evidence having cloning capacities at this time in the universe. Even the clone looking fellows in Directive 7 were actually droids, not clones. There are two inferences to cloning or genetic duplication in the bounty hunter story: Mako. They don't come out and say it straight but she finds numerous other people who look just like her and she discovers she's part of some top secret Republic project. Gault is able to obtain a genetic double of himself to fake his own death during the Great Hunt, and it's good enough to fool the huntmaster and everyone looking for him. The more difficult part is cloning an individual, the obvious use would be creating copies of your best supersoldier, and the new technology in the prequels allowed the supersoldier clones to grow up in a reasonable timeframe. There's the Tatooine planetary quest, where you see many new possessed Czerka workers being seemingly created in the Rakata stasis machines. Edited August 16, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerockyul Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I have no problem with the story per se. The Valkorion plot works for me with a non-force user, eventually we learn that it was always Valkorion who used the force when it seemed we did, and the grand finale happens in our heads, where everything we see is just how our brain interpretes the struggle. I do have a problem with the initial motivation in the prologue, though. Marr inviting the force users to the hunt is fine. The agent is already far-fetched, Marr doesn't know that the agent acquired immunity to mind control. The hunter is an ally but still an outsider and his talents and connections are useless here. Even more so for the trooper - there are already enough loyal(!) soldiers on the ship. And the smuggler... I mean... come on... the smuggler? I agree with you about the non-force users making more sense overall. Honestly I'm having the best time going through all of it with my smuggler. After nothing but force users and my one agent (at a time when I was heavily on the side of KOTFE/ET hate), the smuggler has been the best for sense, humor, and shared As to waking up from a dream--I would love it if that was just made an option. Too many people are on either side, you'd just piss a large portion of your base off by forcing it one way or the other. Since there's now precedent to having a bonus chapter that only briefly includes our PC, wouldn't it be fun if we could have a bonus chapter for Marr? It could be just before the Hunt, some story and actions to show what lead him to that point, and at the end tie our PCs back into it with a holocall (that is never made in chapter 1) to our PCs to join him. Maybe a joke or two thrown in about how absurd it would be for Marr to call the Smuggler in on this dangerous hunt for the most powerful force-user in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 There are two inferences to cloning or genetic duplication in the bounty hunter story: Mako. They don't come out and say it straight but she finds numerous other people who look just like her and she discovers she's part of some top secret Republic project. Gault is able to obtain a genetic double of himself to fake his own death during the Great Hunt, and it's good enough to fool the huntmaster and everyone looking for him. Ah, right you are. Well, Gault's duplicate wasn't actually in any way functional body so we can count that out as a successful clone.. Mako wasn't actually ever quoted to be a clone though. Just "copy". Even "real" Mako has cybernetics... They might as well all be androids if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Wasn't Coral (Mako's 'sister') Human? Along with the other ten sisters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Ah, right you are. Well, Gault's duplicate wasn't actually in any way functional body so we can count that out as a successful clone.. Mako wasn't actually ever quoted to be a clone though. Just "copy". Even "real" Mako has cybernetics... They might as well all be androids if you ask me. Gault's clone was in carbonite and then was killed by the bounty hunter so we don't know if he would have been or not, really. As I said, they never say straight out that Mako is a clone. But every bit of information Mako finds, and is told, in the story points to it. Ten or twelve lookalikes, all who appear to be the same age and are part of a project that the Republic wanted concealed. I don't think Mako's cybernetics have any relevance to that. Plenty of humans in the SWTOR world have implants and cybernetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Gault's clone was in carbonite and then was killed by the bounty hunter so we don't know if he would have been or not, really. As I said, they never say straight out that Mako is a clone. But every bit of information Mako finds, and is told, in the story points to it. Ten or twelve lookalikes, all who appear to be the same age and are part of a project that the Republic wanted concealed. I don't think Mako's cybernetics have any relevance to that. Plenty of humans in the SWTOR world have implants and cybernetics. No I mean the cybernetics make me think of droids still. Or an android rather, since their personality module would need to be a lot more advanced than a droids. Hiding manufacturing imperfections with cybernetics would make perfect sense. This is all theory-crafting ofc, we're never really told if our Mako was the real deal anyway, or what these other copies were. They might as well have been tube children. Still, it is highly unlikely the Old Republic era would have advanced enough to be able to craft fully matured clones out of a tube with all past memory and skills intact. Even the Clone army was born children way way into the future. I'm almost certain you could not clone the midi-chlorian counts either as they're entities of their own, rendering any possibility of Marr clone being force-sensitive frankly impossible. Edited August 16, 2018 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 No I mean the cybernetics make me think of droids still. Or an android rather, since their personality module would need to be a lot more advanced than a droids. Hiding manufacturing imperfections with cybernetics would make perfect sense. This is all theory-crafting ofc, we're never really told if our Mako was the real deal anyway, or what these other copies were. They might as well have been tube children. I got the feeling that Coral was the original, since she was so bent on killing the others because they were "copies." On the other hand she could have been the one who went off the edge. Still, it is highly unlikely the Old Republic era would have advanced enough to be able to craft fully matured clones out of a tube with all past memory and skills intact. Even the Clone army was born children way way into the future. I'm almost certain you could not clone the midi-chlorian counts either as they're entities of their own, rendering any possibility of Marr clone being force-sensitive frankly impossible. The Rakata did, though. In the Tatooine planetary story, in the final scene in the Czerka excavation, numerous Czerka 'zombies' appear from the Rakata stasis chambers. But those were rather mindless zombies so it's uncertain if they could do anything other than kill. As humorous as it is to talk about cloning Marr or other characters, it's not doable on more than a cosmetic level, I agree. Scientifically, cloning = replicating DNA, it doesn't mean you're creating someone who has the same memories and personality. Identical twins technically have the same DNA sequencing (and there have been cases of murder and paternity issues where they've been unable to differentiate between twins' DNA to identify the culprit), but they're most certainly separate individuals with their own personalities and abilities. They're finding the same is true with cloned animals; they don't have the personalities of their genetic parent. That rule seems to hold true in the Star Wars universe, too. The clones in the Clone Wars all were from the same genetic template and they were certainly different from each other, and were encouraged to express their own personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I have to admit. Even I went back to Chapter one and raised Marr from the dead so to peak, to adventure once again. However, I believe bioware made him good and truly dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) I have to admit. Even I went back to Chapter one and raised Marr from the dead so to peak, to adventure once again. However, I believe bioware made him good and truly dead. Probably But Sith are Sith, maybe we could find a ritual to raise him back from the dead. If Zash can body hop to trade up, maybe we could put Marr's spirit and voice into another body? Edited August 17, 2018 by Lunafox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Still, it is highly unlikely the Old Republic era would have advanced enough to be able to craft fully matured clones out of a tube with all past memory and skills intact. Even the Clone army was born children way way into the future. I'm almost certain you could not clone the midi-chlorian counts either as they're entities of their own, rendering any possibility of Marr clone being force-sensitive frankly impossible. Well... there are a few force-sensitive clones within legends. Starkiller from TFUII, Joruus C'Baoth, Luuke, Eldon Ax's clone (Albeit this one I don't remember if they hinted at her being force-sensitive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 There are certainly elements that I'd like to keep from KotXX forward, and some that I would like to see killed with fire, so I'd be torn on just resetting the whole thing back to SOR. Frankly, if we were going to reset it, I would be more inclined to dump SOR, too, but never mind. I do kind of like the idea of being able to do a bit of time travel to save this or that character. Perhaps, for your bit, Marr doesn't go on a rage fest and start a fight he just can't win, or somehow fakes his death and is projecting from elsewhere when seen as a ghost. Marr is not my first choice, but whichever, the way he went out bugs me so I'd be good with him, really. Cloning works for me fine, though there would have to be some excuse why this or that character are themselves again. You could make a child Marr, but he wouldn't be Marr, but since his force ghost is hanging about, cloning his body to give him a new vessel works fine for me. There are some other characters that's plausible that's also plausible with. I'm not sure how that excuse works with a non-Force user, but there's always Dark Transfer, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Well... there are a few force-sensitive clones within legends. Starkiller from TFUII, Joruus C'Baoth, Luuke, Eldon Ax's clone (Albeit this one I don't remember if they hinted at her being force-sensitive). Hmm, ok maybe midi-chlorians can be cloned. Or they find their way back to their masters DNA. It is unexplained. All these instances of cloning happened way into the future however. Thousands of years after Old Republic era. Nor did these copies possess their originals personalities nor memories. At most fragments of memories. And considering the technology wasn't there to replicate their mentality thousands of years into the future, there shouldn't be knowledge to produce a much more highly mentally advanced clone thousands of years into the past. They're probably even physically a lot worse this far into the past- if we even have the knowledge to make one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusCalera Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The could have Marr pull a Palpatine and transfer his essence into a fully grown clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The could have Marr pull a Palpatine and transfer his essence into a fully grown clone. Pretty much. I'm pretty sure that's no longer canon, but since a form of time travel is, I see no reason that type of thing couldn't be brought back. It's certainly less damaging than other things that have been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 The could have Marr pull a Palpatine and transfer his essence into a fully grown clone. Then he couldn't manifest as a Force-Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Hmm, ok maybe midi-chlorians can be cloned. Or they find their way back to their masters DNA. It is unexplained. All these instances of cloning happened way into the future however. Thousands of years after Old Republic era. Nor did these copies possess their originals personalities nor memories. At most fragments of memories. And considering the technology wasn't there to replicate their mentality thousands of years into the future, there shouldn't be knowledge to produce a much more highly mentally advanced clone thousands of years into the past. They're probably even physically a lot worse this far into the past- if we even have the knowledge to make one yet. I'm just saying the concept is a thing in Star Wars, legends at least. I doubt they'll clone Marr and I do agree with you about how cloning technology now is likely inferior, much like other pieces of technology are. Joruus had a lot of his original personality, the Jedi elitism and all that but he was also clinically insane, Starkiller is pretty much the only clone who kept his personality and still managed to be sane. Luuke had no personality to speak of as he never spoke a word. Pretty much. I'm pretty sure that's no longer canon, but since a form of time travel is, I see no reason that type of thing couldn't be brought back. It's certainly less damaging than other things that have been done. It's not, but neither is the game. SWTOR is part of legends so it can use legends lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Pretty much. I'm pretty sure that's no longer canon, but since a form of time travel is, I see no reason that type of thing couldn't be brought back. It's certainly less damaging than other things that have been done. He was trying to take over our bodies, so I imagine it would be along the same lines as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) I loved KOTFE/KOTET as a matter of fact. Ah, all right, your opposition makes sense now... You have no taste. And for me to get behind "bad dream" or timetravel, KOTFE/ET would have to be unbelievably awful. And it is. Doc mentions that the Hutt he treated, Nemro, was "killed by some bounty hunter," and that (can) happen in the Bounty Hunter's story. You can kill Nem'ro in the BH story? Are you sure? You aren't getting it confused with the Agent killing Fa'athra? Edited August 17, 2018 by Ardrossan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpol Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) Cloning a body is a lot different to cloning a mind. Mako and her "sister" seem to be pretty different people. Darth Marr might wake up and be a vegetarian If they were going to bring anyone back I'd rather it was Malgus. He was a lot more of an interesting character than Marr who was pretty two dimensional. Edited August 17, 2018 by rumpol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 If they were going to bring anyone back I'd rather it was Malgus. He was a lot more of an interesting character than Marr who was pretty two dimensional. Malgus? He doesn't have my warriors respect ...I'm not cloning that traitor! He can remain at the bottom of that pit on that space station that blew up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 I actually did like both Marr and Malgus. Malgus though I believe is too erratic and dramatic to be considered for anything long term. They were both *Thinkers, planning, scheming but Malgus seems much more about the "One time Bold stroke" type and that as history has shown typically leads to Win all or Lose all outcomes. Marr understands there are usually many small steps to set the conditions first and those do take time and not always to be rushed in. Both characters were good just not both suited to be an overall leader. Darth Marr was good, SWTOR lost one its most universally liked characters with his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Malgus? He doesn't have my warriors respect ...I'm not cloning that traitor! He can remain at the bottom of that pit on that space station that blew up. I'm not a Malgus fan either. I thought reading his novel would help my opinion of him, but not really. Marr is the man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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