Stop forcing Group content

[Kiesu]

There is plenty of single player games for you to choose from... If you want to keep playing a Massively Multiplayer Online game, you should probably learn some social skills and go do the online stuff the Devs have created for you, you're bound to run into it sooner or later. Or dont, and just keep replaying the story a hundred times. You could play Overwatch alone infinitely versus bots for your solo enjoyment but complaining that you cant play events without grouping is crazy demand for something that was created multiplayer.

 

If the quest log on the side of your screen is bothering you, there's a check-mark that toggles the visibility of each mission in your journal. I use this myself for some story stuff I've picked up but cba to finish (I think I've had bunch of ilum ones for years). They're gonna linger in your log sure, but you have so many spaces for missions you'd have to be a hoarder to ever get your log full. But having there surely isn't forging you to do anything. I know I have ignored my unabandonables for years.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

There is plenty of single player games for you to choose from... If you want to keep playing a Massively Multiplayer Online game, you should probably learn some social skills and go do the online stuff the Devs have created for you. Or dont, and just keep replaying the story a hundred times. You could play Overwatch alone infinitely versus bots for your solo enjoyment but complaining that you cant play events without grouping is crazy demand for something that was created multiplayer.

 

If the quest log on the side of your screen is bothering you, there's a check-mark that toggles the visibility of each mission in your journal. I use this myself for some story stuff I've picked up but cba to finish (I think I've had bunch of ilum ones for years). They're gonna linger in your log sure, but you have so many spaces for missions you'd have to be a hoarder to ever get your log full.

 

It was created with a multiplayer aspect. Not as a game with grouping as a requirement or even a main part. We can keep arguing this until the cows come home, and people can keep beating the MMO!!! !GROOOOOOUUUUPPPP!!!!! drum as long as they want, but unless someone can give me clear examples of how the main content from the prelude to KOTET requires any grouping whatsoever to finish, the point doesn't hold. This isn't a game where grouping has ever been the primary form of play.

[Jedi_riches]

I think that if it is a story element, there should be an option to do it in story mode so you can see the conclusion. Most of the recent content was written for a single player experience, however, the ending of the "Machine Gods" piece is in an OP so many may not see the end of the arc play out. So, as everyone wants to see the end of the story. Insert cut scene for those that don't want to play the group content, and badda boom badda bing..... solo story completed.

 

Or at least don't mix them, I don't really take huge issues with having a overarching story through several operations, however when you do what they did with Oricon and have a solo planet smack bang in the middle of it and have that not be able to be completed without 2 final operations, that is what leaves a bad taste in the mouth as players start this solo content with good intentions only to find it's impossible to complete solo, as pointed out it's not just restricted to The dread masters and Iokath it affect the Seekers and Macrobinocular missions, none of which show anything that would indicate a Heroic 4 conclusion.

[Kiesu]

It was created with a multiplayer aspect. Not as a game with grouping as a requirement or even a main part. We can keep arguing this until the cows come home, and people can keep beating the MMO!!! !GROOOOOOUUUUPPPP!!!!! drum as long as they want, but unless someone can give me clear examples of how the main content from the prelude to KOTET requires any grouping whatsoever to finish, the point doesn't hold. This isn't a game where grouping has ever been the primary form of play.

 

Every single story arch with an operation involved (apart from temple of sacrifice) require you to do a group operation to finish it...Same with Raghoul FP story arch. Many people just don't even seem to know these group activities have story quests surrounding them, because if you just use group finder and never visit Gav/Zshadow on Fleet (or planets for couple) you'll miss them completely.

 

Anyway, the thread was about not being able to abandon an operation quest, and there for being "forced" to do it is completely false. I've had story quests for Ilum on my log as a quest you cannot abandon for YEARS and I'm not claiming they're forcing me to do ilum story if I dont want to . I just toggle the visibility of it and move on.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Kiesu

[DarthRelpago]

The Real problem here is the Flashpoints and Ops aren't handled effectively like in FFXIV or maybe its the amount of player base.

No matter what in FFXIV, I can join a que on group finder on the dailies and get grouped up in minutes. The system works really well, because it looks for any dungeon that needs quing and rewards you based off your level. This means that if there is someone doing the first dungeon and 3 others doing daily runs. That first person will get a full and experienced party to help with that dungeon. Its a help system. This game has so much optional solo content for Group content that the feeling of community and simply doing group content is left out. Its seen more as a nuisance and less as a "Lets band together to take on this threat!" type of deal.

 

THough I will agree things like Oricon and Iokath werent handled well because the Ops just came out of nowhere. BUt at the end of the day, MMOs are meant to be worlds where other heroes exist and that the problems are so big that it requires more than 1 hero. For example in the shadow of revan. You either do an OP with other player heroes or play a soloable boss fight with NPC heroes. At the end of the day, MMOs should not be about a single person, but about an individual that can handle themselves but to save the world needs the help of other similar individuals.

 

I agree that we should have more soloable versions to get through the story, simply because we dont have a player base constantly accepting every FP on GF. Im guilty of this myself. I only wanna do certian flashpoints. Boarding Party is the shortest so I do that one to get my socialite CQ points. The game is built in a way where they entice to play group content but the group content feels a bit out of place. That is what needs to be fixed.

[Mubrak]

So... Why has nobody offered to help the OP going trough GotM? Same reason why nobody pugs the op on fleet?

 

OP is supposed to join a guild (maybe even leave his current mini guild of 4 friends) just so they can carry him thru GotM? That's the idea of being social in an MMO? Or is anyone here volunteering his raid group to carry the OP?

 

Not being able to abandon quests that can't be done solo or via group finder is a bad design choice. I don't think there should be a solo version of all content, but at least you should be able to remove the quest from your mission log if you don't want to do the operation.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Mubrak

[Jedi_riches]

I agree that we should have more soloable versions to get through the story, simply because we dont have a player base constantly accepting every FP on GF. Im guilty of this myself. I only wanna do certian flashpoints.

 

I don't queue for every flashpoint either, I do the flashpoints as they would appear in the story, so doing Hammer Station right after the capital planet so I only queue for a single flashpoint at a time so I am the one dictating to the other 3 in the group which flashpoint we are doing. I don't particularly feel great doing that but it is my best choice, if there were solo modes for Hammer Station etc along with the other solo modes in the game, I would likely never queue for another flashpoint again I would do it all myself (I used to wait until severely over levelling content and go back and solo the flashpoints pre-level sync)

[Jedi_riches]

but at least you should be able to remove the quest from your mission log if you don't want to do the operation.

 

Removing is one thing but to me it should not be forced into the quest list at all, it should be optional to pick it up[/b]not to remove it.

[Kiesu]

So... Why has nobody offered to help the OP going trough GotM? Same reason why nobody pugs the op on fleet?

 

OP is supposed to join a guild (maybe even leave his current mini guild of 4 friends) just so they can carry him thru GotM? That's the idea of being social in an MMO? Or is anyone here volunteering his raid group to carry the OP?

Did the OP tell anyone what server they are on? Did he sound like he wanted to do group content in the first place when complaining about "getting forced to do it"? I would say the reply to both of those are "no".

He knows how to use forums, I'm sure he knows where to look for carries/raiding guilds if he wants one (server-specific forums).

 

I personally don't do sm ops with guild at all, I do HM/NIM content with guild or through other connections. Most people in my guild are adults with families and don't have the time to sit around all day to gather groups for SM ops, they're already taking hours off their evening for team raids. So yeah, I pug SMs (including gods) if i feel like doing SMs, or harder if the chance arises.

[Toraak]

But my point is that group content is NOT the main thing in SWTOR. It never has been. It's been a large thing for a lot of players, but it's always been completely voluntary and not integral to finishing any of the main content. IMHO that does differentiate it from games like WoW and Overwatch.

 

Many people play this game only doing flashpoints or grouping up with a buddy every blue moon, or not grouping at all. Even when there was briefly a section that had to be grouped to complete (the Forged Alliances flashpoints at first) it was quickly changed. I'd wager that most people doing Yavin 4 opt for the solo missions rather than the Op. And given the massive complaints about Oricon and Iokath, most people weren't keen on being expected to group there, and will leave those chains unfinished rather than doing so.

 

Thus, all of the "OHE NOES MMO! MMO! YOU MUST GROUP!!!!!" nonsense that people seem to get here when they mention they don't like grouping or don't want Iokath stuck in their logs is a bit misguided.

 

The devs won't let people abandon Iokath specifically to try to push them to do it - and that's not cool. There's no reason anyone should have to keep a quest they don't want in the log. Yes, it's a captain obvious move to untrack and ignore it, but if you want to let it go, you should be able to do so.

 

AND the devs also wrote the Iokath story so that it led into the Op and cannot really be resolved without it, which is also uncool. Main story should not be tied to group content that way. Yeah, you can ignore the Op, but from a story standpoint you have a pretty gaping plot hole.

 

My point is BW pushes Group players to do story as well. We can't Abandon Illum (we're forced to have it in our logs), same for Makeb if you start it. So your claim of they are forcing you to do that is nonsense. You can do the exact same thing we do. Leave the quests in your log untracked. Your not being forced to do them, just like Group people aren't forced to do Illum. You can choose to only do Solo Story content all you want.

 

The simple truth is BW pushes everyone to do ALL content. We all have the right to ignore the content we do not want to do still.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Toraak

[phalczen]

I'll play the board game Monopoly with you, OP. But, when I land on your property spaces, you have to pay ME because I graced you with my presence.

 

Also, houses and hotels should cost half as much for me as they do for you, because, well, I just want to build my empire in this world of Atlantic City that you happen to be in also. That's because Monopoly is a multiplayer game that doesn't force grouping.

 

Sounds legit, right?

 

No?

 

OK, let's try something else. I have to get the exterior of my house painted, because I want to sell it soon. I could do it all myself, and, eventually, I'd get it done and have the "reward" of it looking nicer, having more curb appeal, when I wish to sell it. I'd get all the profit (reward) of the better selling price of the house, but I would have spent a lot of time doing it, and it would have been riskier because I could have fallen off the ladder and gotten hurt.

 

This is analogous to solo grinding through Galactic Command. The risk is that the RNG of crates will not be favorable to you. The reward is that you can get all the gear and you never have to ever do any group content.

 

 

I could ask some of my friends to come over, and it would take less time, I'd still get the reward of a better sale price, but I'd have to get my friends some beers and grill them hot dogs and hamburgers. But, we'd also get to tell jokes about each other, share silly stories or pictures of our kids, and laugh and enjoy ourselves. My profit would be reduced by the cost of beer and food, but I'd have the intangible of the grouping experience.

 

This is analogous to being in a guild.

 

 

I could hire CollegeProPainters and hire some devil may care college students to get up on ladders and paint my house. It would certainly be a lot safer for me. It would probably get done even faster than with my buddies, I wouldn't have to give them any beer, but, I would have to work an extra shift or two to pay them. My profit would be reduced by the cost to pay the company.

 

This is analogous to queuing for group finder. You have to share the loot with the rest of the group, and you may not get the unassembled token you want, but it definitely earns you CXP faster than solo activities.

 

 

But, what you want, is you want a professional painter and crew to come to your house, paint your exterior, and do it for free, so you have all the profit.

 

Also, has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't responded in four pages? Sounds like we were all caught by the troll.

[_NovaBlast_]

I'll play the board game Monopoly

 

Also, has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't responded in four pages? Sounds like we were all caught by the troll.

 

I have not responded because it's pointless to... just like you whole argument... completely pointless...your examples are pure facepalm material. Really comparing a board game that does not function without 2 players and painting which is actual work..not a video game. .... you completely proved earlier my point about elitism and bribing people to play / join certain thing they normally would not as well... IMO of course

 

TBH i wasn't going to even respond to the initial responses because experience has taught it's not worthwhile to....The game is not the only thing i gave up on this forum as well. Getting into a discussion with the "hardcores" or the MMO =group is like a broken record....i have already proven with fact that its not by definition true.

 

but for some reason i did ...just like i am wasting my time to respond to you.

 

I quit subbing ages ago when they started this new storyline ..got rid of all companions and started "forcing" which companion I had to have in my party at any given time

 

Thankfully sub runs out sometime today or tomorrow so don't expect any more responses I only sub once a year now if that ... 15.00 per year for all the content is still only very barely worth it . The only good thing about this game if you sub for one month you get everything you missed ( other than the bonus dlc) ( which i want interested in any way would never use them) no matter how long you have been unsubbed.

 

this was a message for bioware not the public since CS team refused to forward it...

 

since bioware does not have any private feedback options that i am aware of other then when you cancel your sub.

 

This game died for me for the most part at the end of the class stories IMO.

Edited July 16, 2018 by _NovaBlast_

[Kiesu]

I have not responded because it's pointless to... just like you whole argument... completely pointless...

You realize you haven't actually contributed anything to the discussion except "you're wrong" "this is pointless" "why am I being forced to do X", without actually taking any time to go in detail why we're all so wrong and why you are so oppressed and why life is so pointless. You're just claiming that they are, while others are bringing up points to discussion with conversation value. Other people in this thread have actually had proper debates about things while you apparently would rather just sit back and complain why other people haven't figured this out for you already

 

When you go to public forum with your complaints expect some back and forth discussions.

 

Anyway, since your sub is going out, bye.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Kiesu

[Elessara]

You realize you haven't actually contributed anything to the discussion except "you're wrong" "this is pointless" "why am I being forced to do X", without actually taking any time to go in detail why we're all so wrong and why you are so oppressed and why life is so pointless. You're just claiming that they are, while others are bringing up points to discussion with conversation value. Other people in this thread have actually had proper debates about things while you apparently would rather just sit back and complain why other people haven't figured this out for you already

 

When you go to public forum with your complaints expect some back and forth discussions.

 

Anyway, since your sub is going out, bye.

 

If he actually tried to have a discussion here that would be like doing group content in game and then he'd be forced to group and he doesn't want that.

 

Sarcasm aside, I mostly solo in SWTOR. I would really love it if they didn't have solo-able storylines like Oricon end in two raids. I think they did a great thing with Shadows of Revan by giving us the option of solo or operation. I also find it annoying for quest arcs like the macrobinoculars and the Shroud where the whole thing is solo except the end where you need a group - mostly because I have personally found it quite difficult to get groups for these quests.

 

I certainly don't expect to have the same rewards given to solo content as given to group content however. Also, what do raiders get these days? You can get the highest level gear with unassembled components and you don't need to group for that. Sure it goes faster to group/raid but it's not necessary. So what exclusive rewards does grouping/raiding get ... titles? Pets? Mounts? Decos? I can live without those.

[IoNonSoEVero]

If he actually tried to have a discussion here that would be like doing group content in game and then he'd be forced to group and he doesn't want that.

 

Sarcasm aside, I mostly solo in SWTOR. I would really love it if they didn't have solo-able storylines like Oricon end in two raids. I think they did a great thing with Shadows of Revan by giving us the option of solo or operation. I also find it annoying for quest arcs like the macrobinoculars and the Shroud where the whole thing is solo except the end where you need a group - mostly because I have personally found it quite difficult to get groups for these quests.

 

I certainly don't expect to have the same rewards given to solo content as given to group content however. Also, what do raiders get these days? You can get the highest level gear with unassembled components and you don't need to group for that. Sure it goes faster to group/raid but it's not necessary. So what exclusive rewards does grouping/raiding get ... titles? Pets? Mounts? Decos? I can live without those.

 

Yeah, Ops do require a specific set of mechanics and cooperation that solo content does not, and I'm 100% fine with that being rewarded for what it is. Not to mention that one can always buy the decos on the GTN if one really wants them without doing the Ops. So the Ops players either get the decos/mounts or get to make some money from them by selling them on the GTN, and that's cool.

 

For the flashpoints, they've started awarding a guaranteed specific deco as a mission reward for each of the solo-able flashpoints, and IMHO if they ever made the others solo-able that trend should continue.

[Slowpokeking]

Every FP should have a solo version.

[merovejec]

So... Why has nobody offered to help the OP going trough GotM? Same reason why nobody pugs the op on fleet?

 

Cause he didnt ask for it, he wants it removed and seems to be totally avoiding a group in the game. Nobody pugs it? It was in GF a few days ago, many groups were formed on DM on fleet for it.

[merovejec]

Every FP should have a solo version.

 

Every person on the planet should have 1 million on his bank account.

[MichaelStuart]

I would just like to state my support for solo activities not to end in a group mission.

Plus support for adding solo options for all group missions, adding group options for all solo missions and/or increasing accessibility for said missions. (Ops in particular)

[MichaelStuart]

Every person on the planet should have 1 million on his bank account.

REDISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Batwer]

The single quests where I want to agree:

- Oricon, does makeb make a solo and group variation to complete the story.

- macrobinoculars + seeker droids. I could only finish it once after 2 years. I think it's a pity the quests are fun, I would like to do them more often, but if I know I can not finish it ...

 

Otherwise ... OPs are group contents. There is not so much history in it that you have to see everything correctly. The short videos can be seen on Youtube.

And I do not know why you can not list in the group finder for the FP's. For the idiots FPs, it is very fast. Just prank away all the FPs you do not want in the group finder. If you want to see the story, just tell your group members beforehand. It only annoys, if you do not say anything, just let the video run and let the others wait. While they wonder if you are dead or can not read.

[Kiesu]

Yeah, Ops do require a specific set of mechanics and cooperation that solo content does not, and I'm 100% fine with that being rewarded for what it is. Not to mention that one can always buy the decos on the GTN if one really wants them without doing the Ops. So the Ops players either get the decos/mounts or get to make some money from them by selling them on the GTN, and that's cool.

 

For the flashpoints, they've started awarding a guaranteed specific deco as a mission reward for each of the solo-able flashpoints, and IMHO if they ever made the others solo-able that trend should continue.

 

Wait they guarantee award decos for solo FPs? LOL I didn't even know that, you learn something new every day. I gotta try this.

 

 

I do solo FPs almost never (unless I want to just do some story real fast like Rishi, which is rarely if i replay anything its usually class mission and planetary vanilla stuff), I just dont enjoy solo FPs, they're boring imo. I personally enjoy the interaction that comes with having people around, even if they're complete poop and we wipe at least I'll get to have a laugh, thats reward enough for me. I play games for funzies rather than rewards and group stuff is just my personal idea of fast blast of fun. (I'd expect reward from HM/NIM raids, which ironically haven't had any unique rewards for the entire kotfe/et... hence my frustration at declining group content quality)

 

I understand the enjoyment that comes from solo play (I play more singleplayer games than multiplayer games in general) but I guess I just dont understand why solo guys want to turn everything in multiplayer into solo content, when they knew what they were buying.

I'm not demanding anyone to make singleplayer games I enjoy into multiplayer just because I'd personally enjoy it more if I could discuss the stuff with someone as its happening, that would be terribly selfish demanding everything to be how i'd like it to be and screw the devs vision. I dont like that.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

Wait they guarantee award decos for solo FPs? LOL I didn't even know that, you learn something new every day. I gotta try this.

 

 

I do solo FPs almost never (unless I want to just do some story real fast like Rishi, which is rarely if i replay anything its usually class mission and planetary vanilla planetary stuff), I just dont enjoy solo FPs, they're boring imo. I personally enjoy the interaction that comes with having people around, even if they're complete poop and we wipe at least I'll get to have a laugh, thats reward enough for me. I play games for funzies rather than rewards and group stuff is just my personal idea of fast blast of fun.

 

I understand the enjoyment that comes from solo play (I play more singleplayer games than multiplayer games in general) but I guess I just dont understand why solo guys want to turn everything in multiplayer into solo content, when they knew what they were buying.

I'm not demanding anyone to make singleplayer games I enjoy into multiplayer just because I'd personally enjoy it more if I could discuss the stuff with someone as its happening, that would be terribly selfish demanding everything to be how i'd like it to be and screw the devs vision. I dont like that.

 

Yeah, they added the deco awards when they changed the activities panel back when they merged the servers. They're listed there for each flashpoint. There are some nice decos one can get now.

 

I don't know if anyone is asking for the multiplayer stuff to be taken away as much as they're asking for options, and for the devs to be mindful of how they design content. I think Yavin 4 made players a lot happier than Oricon or Iokath, because it wasn't a story that ended only in an Op. There was an option. If you wanted to do the Op, you could, but if not, there was another path for you.

 

Offering another path doesn't take anything away from the multiplayer contingent. I know there are those who say "but then people won't group" but do you really WANT to group with people who don't want to be there and are only there because there's no other option? There are also plenty of people like me who WILL leave a quest unfinished or walk away if it requires any grouping, so we're not even in the equation for the available PUG player population.

 

I don't think there's realistically any way to make Ops soloable, but I do hope the devs will be mindful of not ending story chains in them. However, I do think it's possible to make the remaining flashpoints soloable, and I personally hope the devs will consider it. It would add much needed additional content at a time when we're starved for it. And again, it's not going to take anything away from anyone who wants to do those in a group, either in veteran or MM, with higher rewards.

[AlrikFassbauer]

You bought an MMO knowing it's an MMO and now you want everything to be single player. Single player should *never* be the focus of any MMO and should *always* be limited.

 

Maybe this is the reason why Singleplayer games are dying out right now.

Because Multiplayer = DRM.

[Kiesu]

Yeah, they added the deco awards when they changed the activities panel back when they merged the servers. They're listed there for each flashpoint. There are some nice decos one can get now.

 

I don't know if anyone is asking for the multiplayer stuff to be taken away as much as they're asking for options, and for the devs to be mindful of how they design content. I think Yavin 4 made players a lot happier than Oricon or Iokath, because it wasn't a story that ended only in an Op. There was an option. If you wanted to do the Op, you could, but if not, there was another path for you.

 

Offering another path doesn't take anything away from the multiplayer contingent. I know there are those who say "but then people won't group" but do you really WANT to group with people who don't want to be there and are only there because there's no other option? There are also plenty of people like me who WILL leave a quest unfinished or walk away if it requires any grouping, so we're not even in the equation for the available PUG player population.

 

I don't think there's realistically any way to make Ops soloable, but I do hope the devs will be mindful of not ending story chains in them. However, I do think it's possible to make the remaining flashpoints soloable, and I personally hope the devs will consider it. It would add much needed additional content at a time when we're starved for it. And again, it's not going to take anything away from anyone who wants to do those in a group, either in veteran or MM, with higher rewards.

Actually they already have taken away from group content. Any reward you would get from HM/NIM operation you get by grinding doing solo heroics. There is nothing for a raider to set their sight so anymore, hence the catering to casuals and solo-players effectively turned off every raider and most of the raiding guilds I know have lost more than half of their initial playerbase as they've move on to other games that actually get what raiders raid for... Most raiders already have the NIM mounts and titles, but usually every expansion have offered a new set of cosmetic gear and just in general a higer tier of gear than the casual player would be able to get. There has been none of that during kotfe/et. Because they prioritized getting more rewards trough casual/solo content. It absolutely took away from raiding, there is nothing for raiders to strive for.

 

SM ops are so easy anyway (gods might be exception because it's so gimmiky) I really dont see a reason why one couldn't do a raid once in their life. Just like I dont see a reason why a hardcore raider couldn't do a easy solo mission arc to unlock their raid in the first place. Raiders have always had to so solo content to get their stuff, solo players hardly need to do any group stuff to get their content nowadays. This catering to casual solos has been a one-way effort that have only improves solo players lives, and haven't improved the lives of group content lovers, it has done the opposite for groupers. You cant even do the kotfe/et chapters in a group, they only count for one person at the time. What a joke!

I'd love the to be able to do chapters in a group effectively, but I'm not rising a pitchfork over it.

It's just the solo players who cant seem to see that groupers are forced to do your stuff solo too.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kiesu