Stop forcing Group content

[Jedi_riches]

Maybe this is the reason why Singleplayer games are dying out right now.

Because Multiplayer = DRM.

 

I think that's what big developers like EA would like you to think as multiplayer games are much easier to peddle the latest expansions and micro transactions than a single player game.

 

I feel most story games are just being a little lazy because when you get well told story games the perform really well most simply don't hold up. I mean take Skyrim, hugely popular even today and yet does not have a multiplayer but has a loyal fanbase and is full of immersive stuff to do and has in depth lore to it.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Jedi_riches

[IoNonSoEVero]

Actually they already have taken away from group content. Any reward you would get from HM/NIM operation you get by grinding doing solo heroics. There is nothing for a raider to set their sight so anymore, hence the catering to casuals and solo-players effectively turned off every raider and most of the raiding guilds I know have lost more than half of their initial playerbase as they've move on to other games that actually get what raiders raid for... Most raiders already have the NIM mounts and titles, but usually every expansion have offered a new set of cosmetic gear and just in general a higer tier of gear than the casual player would be able to get. There has been none of that during kotfe/et. Because they prioritized getting more rewards trough casual/solo content. It absolutely took away from raiding, there is nothing for raiders to strive for.

 

SM ops are so easy anyway (gods might be exception because it's so gimmiky) I really dont see a reason why one couldn't do a raid once in their life. Just like I dont see a reason why a hardcore raider couldn't do a easy solo mission arc to unlock their raid in the first place. Raiders have always had to so solo content to get their stuff, solo players hardly need to do any group stuff to get their content nowadays. This catering to casual solos has been a one-way effort that have only improves solo players lives, and haven't improved the lives of group content lovers, it has done the opposite for groupers. You cant even do the kotfe/et chapters in a group, they only count for one person at the time. What a joke!

I'd love the to be able to do chapters in a group effectively, but I'm not rising a pitchfork over it.

It's just the solo players who cant seem to see that groupers are forced to do your stuff solo too.

 

As far as I know, the higher level of raids still offer rewards that solo players can't get, more credits, UCs, etc. Similarly, any level of PvP offers far more UCs than a person can get grinding heroics. Doing ONE ranked PvP daily will give you either 15 or 30 UCs (solo or group).

 

If you are doing it entirely solo, you're not gearing up anywhere near as quickly as that. At Tier IV, every Command Crate has ONE piece of gear which can be disintegrated for 6 to 8 UCs. It takes 5500 CXP at Tier IV to get one crate. Heroics award 79 to 84 CXP, and with the enemies you defeat in the heroic, let's round up to 150 CXP total. Heck, let's be generous and say my character has some bonuses added and is getting 200 CXP per heroic. So for me to get the same UCs as ONE ranked daily solo PvP match, I'd need to earn 11,000 for two crates, which would be roughly 55 heroics.

 

As far as raids - the thing is, this has never been a game centered around raids. I feel like it's not fair to say "but groupers are forced to solo" in SWTOR's case because the bulk of the game is solo or small group play. One knows that going in. SWTOR markets itself as a story-driven game. You don't need to deal with any grouping at all for the original class story, Makeb, Ilum, SoR, KOTFE and KOTET. 95% of the game can be done solo. So I would ask groupers why they would complain about solo play in SWTOR when it's obvious going in that most of the game is designed for that. To me it would be like going into Overwatch and complaining about the team play. This has NEVER functioned primarily as a group-based game, much less a game catering to raiders, so IMHO complaining about solo components is ridiculous.

 

I'm sorry you don't see why people can't do a raid once in their life, but no, actually, I really cannot and will not. the game is supposed to be fun and a raid would be like drinking battery acid for me. I WILL leave a quest unfinished or abandon it if I find out grouping is required, and given the response to Iokath and Oricon, I'm not alone. Even players who will group with friends for flashpoints or whatever don't always do the raids.

 

So the question becomes if the devs are going to continue to try to shove group activities at people they don't want to do and don't consider fun, or if they will be mindful of what the player population actually wants by offering alternatives.

Edited July 17, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Jedi_riches]

As far as I know, the higher level of raids still offer rewards that solo players can't get, more credits, UCs, etc. Similarly, any level of PvP offers far more UCs than a person can get grinding heroics. Doing ONE ranked PvP daily will give you either 15 or 30 UCs (solo or group).

 

If you are doing it entirely solo, you're not gearing up anywhere near as quickly as that. At Tier IV, every Command Crate has ONE piece of gear which can be disintegrated for 6 to 8 UCs. It takes 5500 CXP at Tier IV to get one crate. Heroics award 79 to 84 CXP, and with the enemies you defeat in the heroic, let's round up to 150 CXP total. Heck, let's be generous and say my character has some bonuses added and is getting 200 CXP per heroic. So for me to get the same UCs as ONE ranked daily solo PvP match, I'd need to earn 11,000 for two crates, which would be roughly 55 heroics.

 

As far as raids - the thing is, this has never been a game centered around raids. I feel like it's not fair to say "but groupers are forced to solo" in SWTOR's case because the bulk of the game is solo or small group play. One knows that going in. SWTOR markets itself as a story-driven game. You don't need to deal with any grouping at all for the original class story, Makeb, Ilum, SoR, KOTFE and KOTET. 95% of the game can be done solo. So I would ask groupers why they would complain about solo play in SWTOR when it's obvious going in that most of the game is designed for that. To me it would be like going into Overwatch and complaining about the team play. This has NEVER functioned primarily as a group-based game, much less a game catering to raiders, so IMHO complaining about solo components is ridiculous.

 

I'm sorry you don't see why people can't do a raid once in their life, but no, actually, I really cannot and will not. the game is supposed to be fun and a raid would be like drinking battery acid for me. I WILL leave a quest unfinished or abandon it if I find out grouping is required, and given the response to Iokath and Oricon, I'm not alone. Even players who will group with friends for flashpoints or whatever don't always do the raids.

 

So the question becomes if the devs are going to continue to try to shove group activities at people they don't want to do and don't consider fun, or if they will be mindful of what the player population actually wants by offering alternatives.

 

I agree, I don't wish to do operations either, I am not a great player and even if simple it makes me so nervous to think I would be a drain on the team and also not that great a feeling being carried by the group.

 

I do also agree with the gearing and in fact since doing operations to gear is "quick and easy" does that make operations the dark side of the game?

 

Raiders complain about players getting top rewards yet think about how fast it actually takes to get there if you are not doing group content it's as much of a rewards for perseverance as anything.

[Kiesu]

As far as I know, the higher level of raids still offer rewards that solo players can't get, more credits, UCs, etc. Similarly, any level of PvP offers far more UCs than a person can get grinding heroics. Doing ONE ranked PvP daily will give you either 15 or 30 UCs (solo or group).

 

If you are doing it entirely solo, you're not gearing up anywhere near as quickly as that. At Tier IV, every Command Crate has ONE piece of gear which can be disintegrated for 6 to 8 UCs. It takes 5500 CXP at Tier IV to get one crate. Heroics award 79 to 84 CXP, and with the enemies you defeat in the heroic, let's round up to 150 CXP total. Heck, let's be generous and say my character has some bonuses added and is getting 200 CXP per heroic. So for me to get the same UCs as ONE ranked daily solo PvP match, I'd need to earn 11,000 for two crates, which would be roughly 55 heroics.

 

As far as raids - the thing is, this has never been a game centered around raids. I feel like it's not fair to say "but groupers are forced to solo" in SWTOR's case because the bulk of the game is solo or small group play. One knows that going in. SWTOR markets itself as a story-driven game. You don't need to deal with any grouping at all for the original class story, Makeb, Ilum, SoR, KOTFE and KOTET. 95% of the game can be done solo. So I would ask groupers why they would complain about solo play in SWTOR when it's obvious going in that most of the game is designed for that. To me it would be like going into Overwatch and complaining about the team play. This has NEVER functioned primarily as a group-based game, much less a game catering to raiders, so IMHO complaining about solo components is ridiculous.

 

I'm sorry you don't see why people can't do a raid once in their life, but no, actually, I really cannot and will not. the game is supposed to be fun and a raid would be like drinking battery acid for me. I WILL leave a quest unfinished or abandon it if I find out grouping is required, and given the response to Iokath and Oricon, I'm not alone. Even players who will group with friends for flashpoints or whatever don't always do the raids.

 

So the question becomes if the devs are going to continue to try to shove group activities at people they don't want to do and don't consider fun, or if they will be mindful of what the player population actually wants by offering alternatives.

 

It's cool that you (individual who never raids) are trying to tell me (individual who does hm/nims weekly) how raid rewards work. So let me tell you the actual state of the rewards, since I'm juggling them constantly. There is NOTHING you can get from HM/NIM raids that a casual player couldn't acquire some other way... The only thing they still offer are one-time cosmetic rewards such as titles and mounts, but since they've been in game like 5 years already, not a single serious raider needs them anymore. What is the most ironic about this, is NIM raids dont even drop loot, nothing, even HM raids drop 242 tokens, nims don't drop even those, they only drop unassambled components. It's an utter joke now, every other expansion except KOTET and KOTFE NIMs has dropped gear, now they dont even drop that. There is NO EXCUSE FOR THIS except that they have been UTTERLY IGNORING RAIDERS the entire two years in a row.

The only reason I'm still here is that grouping is the not the only thing I like, even though it's my preferred activity.

 

Also, the argument that you gear "faster" trough is raiding is... partly false. You need to actually be able to beat the bosses to get any loot/cxp and you wipe a lot in hm/nim content if even one person is sorta not used to harder content, or the team in general doesn't share dynamics if you need to fill outside usual team. We like taking new folks HM raiding for achievement and experience and often it just doesn't work out. But we're nice and we like other nice people and if those nice people turn out to be good we take them raiding more!

 

On the "everyone needs to do solo" is actually wrong. You can do every single story arch in this game while grouped (and it'll count finished for everyone) EXCEPT kotfe/et chapters. And vanilla class mission if you are the same class as your grouped partner. EVERYTHING else is groupable, I know because I've lvled a BUNCH of characters with friends. There was literally no reason they coudn't have let a group do kotfe/et chapters as group and still have it count completed for everyone. NONE. So yes, you ARE forced to do the chapters solo... unless you want to do them 4 times in a row for them to count for each individual in the group. It's nonsensical.

 

If you want to abandon your raid mission, do it. I have not done Kotfe/et on the majority of my characters because I cba to do solo missions I've seen ten times already again and again and again... alteast doing them in a group proper would make them faster and you'd get to have a laugh while at it.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

It's cool that you (individual who never raids) are trying to tell me (individual who does hm/nims weekly) how raid rewards work. So let me tell you the actual state of the rewards, since I'm juggling them constantly. There is NOTHING you can get from HM/NIM raids that a casual player couldn't acquire some other way... The only thing they still offer are one-time cosmetic rewards such as titles and mounts, but since they've been in game like 5 years already, not a single serious raider needs them anymore. What is the most ironic about this, is NIM raids dont even drop loot, nothing, even HM raids drop 242 tokens, nims don't drop even those, they only drop unassambled components. It's an utter joke now, every other expansion except KOTET and KOTFE NIMs has dropped gear, now they dont even drop that. There is NO EXCUSE FOR THIS except that they have been UTTERLY IGNORING RAIDERS the entire two years in a row.

The only reason I'm still here is that grouping is the not the only thing I like, even though it's my preferred activity.

 

Also, the argument that you gear "faster" trough is raiding is... partly false. You need to actually be able to beat the bosses to get any loot/cxp and you wipe a lot in hm/nim content if even one person is sorta not used to harder content, or the team in general doesn't share dynamics if you need to fill outside usual team. We like taking new folks HM raiding for achievement and experience and often it just doesn't work out. But we're nice and we like other nice people and if those nice people turn out to be good we take them raiding more!

 

On the "everyone needs to do solo" is actually wrong. You can do every single story arch in this game while grouped (and it'll count finished for everyone) EXCEPT kotfe/et chapters. And vanilla class mission if you are the same class as your grouped partner. EVERYTHING else is groupable, I know because I've lvled a BUNCH of characters with friends. There was literally no reason they coudn't have let a group do kotfe/et chapters as group and still have it count completed for everyone. NONE. So yes, you ARE forced to do the chapters solo... unless you want to do them 4 times in a row for them to count for each individual in the group. It's nonsensical.

 

If you want to abandon your raid mission, do it. I have not done Kotfe/et on the majority of my characters because I cba to do solo missions I've seen ten times already again and again and again... alteast doing them in a group proper would make them faster and you'd get to have a laugh while at it.

 

Someone who doesn't raid can still read the Dulfy guides about what raids and PvP award. No solo play drops UCs, so the mere fact that one gets them from raids, as well as the CXP to get crates, means you can gear up faster than a solo player. And PvP is a boon for that.

 

i didn't say one HAD to do the game solo. I said one COULD, which is the difference. There is no obligation to group for any reason in the class stories, Makeb, Ilum, SoR, KOTFE and KOTET. You don't NEED to group to complete any of that content. Even the Star Fortress at Veteran mode can be completed solo. That sets SWTOR apart from MMOs where you need to group to get ahead and advance any of your play. There are plenty of MMOs where if you don't group, you don't play. That's not SWTOR and it never has been.

 

And this is why people complain when there's a raid at the end of a story chain; it's not the chief playstyle and it's not needed to complete most of the game. And that's fair. There's a marked difference between bringing along a buddy because you WANT to do so, and finding out that you HAVE to do content with seven other people to advance or complete your story chain, like Iokath.

 

Coming into a game where almost every bit of content can be completed solo, it's marketed as story-based, and then complaining that solo players have a way to earn gear and raids aren't the priority - I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for that. If raids are your main thing, this isn't the game for that and it's never been.

Edited July 17, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[FtWorthJim]

Coming into a game where almost every bit of content can be completed solo, it's marketed as story-based, and then complaining that solo players have a way to earn gear and raids aren't the priority - I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for that. If raids are your main thing, this isn't the game for that and it's never been.

 

Some of the story takes you into content which requires more than one person to complete it. You can say it's solo style all day, it doesn't change the fact that it's an MMO. There is plenty of non-solo content in SWTOR. There's Solo, small group, and large group content. The "story" is spread across all types.

[Kiesu]

Someone who doesn't raid can still read the Dulfy guides about what raids and PvP award. No solo play drops UCs, so the mere fact that one gets them from raids, as well as the CXP to get crates, means you can gear up faster than a solo player. And PvP is a boon for that.

Good job ignoring all my points on how rewards for NIM content have been nerfed to oblivion. But I guess you wouldnt know, not having raided and not feeling the difference yourself makes compassion a hard thing for some people to experience if they haven't personally been affected by it.

I guess you missed the parts on dulfy on how things are now vs how thing used to be. Not getting gear from a raid is a major nerf. Buying gear with components only and no tokens takes forever. So you're actually forced to do two raids successfully with a blank wallet to get one piece of gear (if you even get a piece of gear, most raids dont have bosses for all members). That is a lot to demand. Why not have Gemini drop from NIMs? Why just components? What do we do with components only if NIMs is all we want to do? It's dumb, even you have to agree.

 

i didn't say one HAD to do the game solo. I said one COULD, which is the difference. There is no obligation to group for any reason in the class stories, Makeb, Ilum, SoR, KOTFE and KOTET. You don't NEED to group to complete any of that content. Even the Star Fortress at Veteran mode can be completed solo. That sets SWTOR apart from MMOs where you need to group to get ahead and advance any of your play. There are plenty of MMOs where if you don't group, you don't play. That's not SWTOR and it never has been.

 

And this is why people complain when there's a raid at the end of a story chain; it's not the chief play-style and it's not needed to complete most of the game. And that's fair.

 

Coming into a game where almost every bit of content can be completed solo, it's marketed as story-based, and then complaining that solo players have a way to earn gear and raids aren't the priority - I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for that. If raids are your main thing, this isn't the game for that and it's never been.

Yeah. Alomst every bit of the content can be completed solo... NOW.

Saying it has never been what you just claimed, proves you haven't actually played the game when it was that exact thing. Since you're member number is 20mil something I'm not surprised during your shorter experience you would think that way.

Let me elaborate:

This game looked a lot different 4+ years ago, when heroics were will 4 player missions (on level), there was no level sync, there was no solo FPs, there was even no tactical koltospam ez fps, god-droids and companions were not demigods and had to be geared up to be any good, even lowbie FPs required the classic tddh composition to be able to complete them. The game I bought 7+ years ago, and the game I have now, are two very different things. You new casuals are living a life of luxury compared to those times, and you cant seem to understand just how much work has gone into converting old group content into your all-soloable todays stuff. Yet you claim it was all story and solo all the time... I'm sorry, but that's just ignorant. These have all been recent changes.

 

It's no wonder the player numbers are at all time low when all your new (story) content can be played with one month sub. There really isn't much reason for people to keep subbing. The audience that likes replaying story hundreds of times is a niche, and we can see it in state of game.

 

Sure, if the devs want to get all the casuals on board at the cost of engame players, it's their choice. But working on one thing is always resources off of another, no matter how much you'd like to think it's a la-la land at BW hq and every content is treated equally. They're not. Understand that.

You've had your 3 years parade of casual heaven converting, and I'm ok with you guys getting casual stuff.

What I'm not ok with is not getting half of the stuff I bought the game for and have played 4 years prior to that, and then getting you new people running in claiming everything was always like X and everything must be like X in the future!

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kiesu

[Hebruixe]

what a stupid reason to open a ticket

[IoNonSoEVero]

Some of the story takes you into content which requires more than one person to complete it. You can say it's solo style all day, it doesn't change the fact that it's an MMO. There is plenty of non-solo content in SWTOR. There's Solo, small group, and large group content. The "story" is spread across all types.

 

Name one thing in the class stories, Makeb, Ilum, SoR, KOTET or KOTFE where grouping is necessary or mandatory. There's nothing. The only story content that is in the group-only flashpoints and Ops is not integral to the main story or necessary to advance you in the main story.

 

I never said there wasn't group content, just that it wasn't required for playing the main game, advancing the main story or getting to endgame. Someone can play this game entirely solo and have a full experience without ever touching Ops, group flashpoints or PvP.

Edited July 17, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[IoNonSoEVero]

Good job ignoring all my points on how rewards for NIM content have been nerfed to oblivion. But I guess you wouldnt know, not having raided and not feeling the difference yourself makes compassion a hard thing for some people to experience if they haven't personally been affected by it.

I guess you missed the parts on dulfy on how things are now vs how thing used to be. Not getting gear from a raid is a major nerf. Buying gear with components only and no tokens takes forever. So you're actually forced to do two raids successfully with a blank wallet to get one piece of gear (if you even get a piece of gear, most raids dont have bosses for all members). That is a lot to demand. Why not have Gemini drop from NIMs? Why just components? What do we do with components only if NIMs is all we want to do? It's dumb, even you have to agree.

 

 

Yeah. Alomst every bit of the content can be completed solo... NOW.

Saying it has never been what you just claimed, proves you haven't actually played the game when it was that exact thing. Since you're member number is 20mil something I'm not surprised during your shorter experience you would think that way.

Let me elaborate:

This game looked a lot different 4+ years ago, when heroics were will 4 player missions (on level), there was no level sync, there was no solo FPs, there was even no tactical koltospam ez fps, god-droids and companions were not demigods and had to be geared up to be any good, even lowbie FPs required the classic tddh composition to be able to complete them. The game I bought 7+ years ago, and the game I have now, are two very different things. You new casuals are living a life of luxury compared to those times, and you cant seem to understand just how much work has gone into converting old group content into your all-soloable todays stuff. Yet you claim it was all story and solo all the time... I'm sorry, but that's just ignorant. These have all been recent changes.

 

It's no wonder the player numbers are at all time low when all your new (story) content can be played with one month sub. There really isn't much reason for people to keep subbing. The audience that likes replaying story hundreds of times is a niche, and we can see it in state of game.

 

Sure, if the devs want to get all the casuals on board at the cost of engame players, it's their choice. But working on one thing is always resources off of another, no matter how much you'd like to think it's a la-la land at BW hq and every content is treated equally. They're not. Understand that.

You've had your 3 years parade of casual heaven converting, and I'm ok with you guys getting casual stuff.

What I'm not ok with is not getting half of the stuff I bought the game for and have played 4 years prior to that, and then getting you new people running in claiming everything was always like X and everything must be like X in the future!

 

Here's the thing: I actually don't care what drops from Ops. I don't care if they're nerfed. If you don't like the rewards, don't do them. I've never done a solo thing where UCs drop at all, and solo players are told to stop whining abotu the scant UCs they get, so as far as I'm concerned, you're coming out ahead if any drop. Not to mention that in PvP they give out participation trophies, and just for playing - not winning - you get UCs.

 

No, I have not been here since the beginning, but the class stories never required grouping. Ever. The Prelude to SoR did, and all the flashpoints also did, but they changed those. Critical point. All of the flashpoints integral to the main story were changed to solo versions. The heroics were changed to solo versions. The Aurora Canon in Section X? Same thing. Because that seemed to satisfy more players. You CAN still bring along friends if you want, but you don't HAVE to, and that's the point.

 

Only Bioware has the stats on how people completed Yavin 4, but I'd bet money that more people chose the dailies over the Temple of Sacrifice, again, because that's how more people play.

 

So again, asking for that alternate path to be continued, and to not be roped into mandatory grouping to finish story chains is what the majority of the player base seems to want. You can always continue grouping if you want, but just as you don't want to be forced to solo things, don't expect solo players to be happy about having to group or not want to speak out against it.

[Kiesu]

Here's the thing: I actually don't care what drops from Ops. I don't care if they're nerfed. If you don't like the rewards, don't do them. I've never done a solo thing where UCs drop at all, and solo players are told to stop whining abotu the scant UCs they get, so as far as I'm concerned, you're coming out ahead if any drop. Not to mention that in PvP they give out participation trophies, and just for playing - not winning - you get UCs.

 

No, I have not been here since the beginning, but the class stories never required grouping. Ever. The Prelude to SoR did, and all the flashpoints also did, but they changed those. Critical point. All of the flashpoints integral to the main story were changed to solo versions. The heroics were changed to solo versions. The Aurora Canon in Section X? Same thing. Because that seemed to satisfy more players. You CAN still bring along friends if you want, but you don't HAVE to, and that's the point.

 

Only Bioware has the stats on how people completed Yavin 4, but I'd bet money that more people chose the dailies over the Temple of Sacrifice, again, because that's how more people play.

 

So again, asking for that alternate path to be continued, and to not be roped into mandatory grouping to finish story chains is what the majority of the player base seems to want. You can always continue grouping if you want, but just as you don't want to be forced to solo things, don't expect solo players to be happy about having to group or not want to speak out against it.

I'm not sure where you get the idea I'm here to shut up the casuals, or think they shoulgn't say their mind... I'm on the complete opposite here. You're misreading me completely. I'm having a discussion here, a debate if you will, with a person who doesn't know of half of the things they've been telling me. I'm just correcting. AND I'm just telling the other side of the issue to the casuals who only see their issues and nobody elses. This isn't a one way train, and I was expecting a mutual understanding when it came to how and what people want to play. But when you keep insisting everything is better for the grouper and X and Y is forced and stuff has always been C, you're just so dead wrong and I HAVE to debate it, otherwise ignorance and tunnel-visioning on just one aspect of the game will continue to divide the player base in two. That's not good for anyone.

 

I play both sides. I came to this game 7 years ago to experience kotor-like stories, and to flail around light-sabers with my friends. I liked both and stayed for the story and companionship. I am not asking to take anything away from you, I am asking for equal love for both sides here. So many freedoms groupers had have diminished to nothing over the years- even lowbie pvp is dead because of these changes, because BW was too busy building a more simplifies casual-friendly mode. That was stuff taken away from one to give the other.

I dare say I have experienced every aspect of this game (except maybe a fully decked GS setup ) and kinda know what I'm talking about when it comes to this games history. And as a long time veteran, I've seen every bit of story multiple times for many years, and trust me when i say this, you wont be playing the same story 7 years in a row. You might play that one every couple years- I do that too. But having that be your sole content for the next 7 years is not gonna end well for anyone.

 

So. Again. Just because lvling never required you to be in a group (aka class stories) doesnt mean it was always mean to be solo-experience. How many MMOs have you played? Most of the quests in ALL MMOS are solo quests. And the group stuff is optional or endgame. You can play every single mmo ever solo. That doesn't mean it was intended to be solo game.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

I'm not sure where you get the idea I'm here to shut up the casuals, or think they shoulgn't say their mind... I'm on the complete opposite here. You're misreading me completely. I'm having a discussion here, a debate if you will, with a person who doesn't know of half of the things they've been telling me. I'm just correcting. AND I'm just telling the other side of the issue to the casuals who only see their issues and nobody elses. This isn't a one way train, and I was expecting a mutual understanding when it came to how and what people want to play. But when you keep insisting everything is better for the grouper and X and Y is forced and stuff has always been C, you're just so dead wrong and I HAVE to debate it, otherwise ignorance and tunnel-visioning on just one aspect of the game will continue to divide the player base in two. That's not good for anyone.

 

I play both sides. I came to this game 7 years ago to experience kotor-like stories, and to flail around light-sabers with my friends. I liked both and stayed for the story and companionship. I am not asking to take anything away from you, I am asking for equal love for both sides here. So many freedoms groupers had have diminished to nothing over the years- even lowbie pvp is dead because of these changes, because BW was too busy building a more simplifies casual-friendly mode. That was stuff taken away from one to give the other.

I dare say I have experienced every aspect of this game (except maybe a fully decked GS setup ) and kinda know what I'm talking about when it comes to this games history. And as a long time veteran, I've seen every bit of story multiple times for many years, and trust me when i say this, you wont be playing the same story 7 years in a row. You might play that one every couple years- I do that too. But having that be your sole content for the next 7 years is not gonna end well for anyone.

 

So. Again. Just because lvling never required you to be in a group (aka class stories) doesnt mean it was always mean to be solo-experience. How many MMOs have you played? Most of the quests in ALL MMOS are solo quests. And the group stuff is optional or endgame. You can play every single mmo ever solo. That doesn't mean it was intended to be solo game.

 

You're right, I am apparently misreading you, and if that's the case, I do apologize. Here's the jist of what I've been getting out of this thread:

 

Solo (mostly or only) players: Look, it's cool if you guys want to raid or group. But we'd like a way to do the content without doing that. We aren't getting a lot of content right now, and we'd like to be able to play everything we can.

 

Raiders: It's an MMO! How dare you be here unless you want to group! Solo path takes away from us! This game should be about grouping and if you don't want to do that you shouldn't play! GROUP OR SHUT UP.

 

I actually do think that all playstyles should be supported in the game, even those I personally don't care for or do.

Group activity is important to a lot of players, and if someone's preference is raiding or PvP or doing every class story with their friends, the game should allow them to do so. I'm not into that stuff, but it doesn't mean it's not valid for others.

 

BUT...by the same token I think solo players' playstyle should be respected and supported too. It's frustrating as a solo player to be denigrated and told "IT'S AN MMO! GROOOOOUUUUP!!!" every time one brings up the issue of not wanting a story chain to end in group play.

 

Nobody should be forced into a playstyle they don't want to do, because this IS supposed to be fun. That IMHO is why they need to be mindful of having both solo and group friendly paths for as much content as they can. Obviously that won't work for everything. Solo PvP would be pretty silly, and Ops just have too many mechanics to make that feasible.

 

But IMHO it does mean being mindful of not shoehorning solo players into having to complete main story content in a group, just as much as they should have allowed you to group up for KOTFE and KOTET chapters if that was your choice. And certainly, not shaming or denigrating players if they prefer one style over the other.

[phalczen]

You're right, I am apparently misreading you, and if that's the case, I do apologize. Here's the jist of what I've been getting out of this thread:

 

Solo (mostly or only) players: Look, it's cool if you guys want to raid or group. But we'd like a way to do the content without doing that. We aren't getting a lot of content right now, and we'd like to be able to play everything we can.

 

I don't mean to quibble, but this is what the OP actually wrote in their CS ticket:

Everything that has story including ops should be "story level soloable" at the very minimum...WITHOUT nerfing the rewards to thepoint [sic] where you are again FORCING People [sic] to play content they dont want to

(caps in original)

Then, further down in the thread, the OP replies:

Why do harder level deserve inherently deserve more? that is a very elitist comment...what makes your preference of play better than the others?

To quote Valkorion from Chapter 12, "Therein lies the problem."

 

You may be asking for ways to complete content like the oricon story, the Czerka flashpoints, the Macrobinoc/Seeker Droid missions, or the "Facing the Machines of War" mission without an ops group, but that is not the implications of what the OP is suggesting in the "Suggestion Box" forum and the "general feedback" they want forwarded to the development team via the CS ticket. The implications of the OP's replies and CS ticket is that they think the loot/rewards from solo and group missions should be very similar, and any "reward" for doing harder content should only be in the sheer intangible sense of accomplishment from rising to a challenge. That's what most people are objecting to. And when you belittle the raid people by saying

Here's the thing: I actually don't care what drops from Ops. I don't care if they're nerfed. If you don't like the rewards, don't do them. I've never done a solo thing where UCs drop at all, and solo players are told to stop whining abotu the scant UCs they get, so as far as I'm concerned, you're coming out ahead if any drop. Not to mention that in PvP they give out participation trophies, and just for playing - not winning - you get UCs.

the result is that people are going to feel slighted. If you've never done a GSF match, or a hard mode operation, or even a master mode flashpoint bonus boss, then perhaps you're not really in a position to comment how much better off those players are in terms of rate of acquiring UCs and CXP and unassembled tokens.

 

I don't do MM operations, so when I do story mode operations through Activity Finder with my guild, its not for the challenge. I do it because I enjoy that content, especially when its with my guild. Occasionally great loot will drop like a rare decoration, and I am grateful for the chance to roll on it. I almost never benefit from the unassembled tokens, since they are two tiers below what I'm at right now, unless I happen to be missing the tier 2 legendary shell. I do always benefit from the CXP, so my gear progression continues, but I don't really need 248 gear to complete that content. Occasionally I do the op on a toon that has not yet completed, say, the Aratech Fire Vehicle quest, and I benefit then as well.

But the OP pretty much thinks all those things I just mentioned should be pretty much the same in a story version of any operation. Do you?

[IoNonSoEVero]

I don't mean to quibble, but this is what the OP actually wrote in their CS ticket:

(caps in original)

Then, further down in the thread, the OP replies:

 

To quote Valkorion from Chapter 12, "Therein lies the problem."

 

You may be asking for ways to complete content like the oricon story, the Czerka flashpoints, the Macrobinoc/Seeker Droid missions, or the "Facing the Machines of War" mission without an ops group, but that is not the implications of what the OP is suggesting in the "Suggestion Box" forum and the "general feedback" they want forwarded to the development team via the CS ticket. The implications of the OP's replies and CS ticket is that they think the loot/rewards from solo and group missions should be very similar, and any "reward" for doing harder content should only be in the sheer intangible sense of accomplishment from rising to a challenge. That's what most people are objecting to. And when you belittle the raid people by saying

 

the result is that people are going to feel slighted. If you've never done a GSF match, or a hard mode operation, or even a master mode flashpoint bonus boss, then perhaps you're not really in a position to comment how much better off those players are in terms of rate of acquiring UCs and CXP and unassembled tokens.

 

I don't do MM operations, so when I do story mode operations through Activity Finder with my guild, its not for the challenge. I do it because I enjoy that content, especially when its with my guild. Occasionally great loot will drop like a rare decoration, and I am grateful for the chance to roll on it. I almost never benefit from the unassembled tokens, since they are two tiers below what I'm at right now, unless I happen to be missing the tier 2 legendary shell. I do always benefit from the CXP, so my gear progression continues, but I don't really need 248 gear to complete that content. Occasionally I do the op on a toon that has not yet completed, say, the Aratech Fire Vehicle quest, and I benefit then as well.

But the OP pretty much thinks all those things I just mentioned should be pretty much the same in a story version of any operation. Do you?

 

A lot of what the OP was saying was silly, but I thought that I was pretty clear in my replies that I did think that Ops and MM flashpoints deserved greater rewards than solo mode. because the mechanics, work and repair bills are far greater. Learning to kill an Ops boss does require a specific skill set, and I don't dismiss that.

 

My comment about not caring about Ops drops came after another poster kept complaining about solo players being able to gear and that Ops had been nerfed from previous patches - while ignoring that it takes far longer (as mentioned, doing the math, it would take me 55 heroics to earn the same UCs that a player could get in one solo ranked PvP match. That's 15 UCs, and each BiS gear piece from the vendor takes 525-825 UCs, so you're at it for a looooong time). Yeah, a solo player can earn BiS gear but it's going to take them a very long time. If they were just being handed BiS gear for finishing a story chapter, I could see people feeling slighted.

 

Raiders and solo players are at each others' throats quite often, but the respect has to go both ways. denigrating people who don't want to group up, or those who are upset that a solo story chain leads to an Ops, or requests for soloable flashpoints, is not conducive to mutual respect. All I want in this game is to be left alone to play as I want, and I'm sure that's all a raider wants at the end of the day too.

[Slowpokeking]

Raiders and solo players are at each others' throats quite often, but the respect has to go both ways. denigrating people who don't want to group up, or those who are upset that a solo story chain leads to an Ops, or requests for soloable flashpoints, is not conducive to mutual respect. All I want in this game is to be left alone to play as I want, and I'm sure that's all a raider wants at the end of the day too.

 

You know why? Because those ppl are not real raiders.

 

Real raiders don't care about what others can get, they just want to have their fun with challenge, which this game didn't provide enough new content.

 

Elitists, however care more about their "pride and exclusive reward" than anything else, so they love to pick on casuals.

 

If I'm a raider, I got ZERO reason to stay in this game because there are so few new content to play with, why should I stay in this game at all?

[Slowpokeking]

Bioware simply pissed both sides.

 

They set up level sync and blostered all the ops to 70, which mean casuals can't walk it through with their level advantage, and none of these other than the new ops GotM could grab real raiders' attention.

[Kiesu]

Solo (mostly or only) players: Look, it's cool if you guys want to raid or group. But we'd like a way to do the content without doing that. We aren't getting a lot of content right now, and we'd like to be able to play everything we can.

 

Raiders: It's an MMO! How dare you be here unless you want to group! Solo path takes away from us! This game should be about grouping and if you don't want to do that you shouldn't play! GROUP OR SHUT UP.

That is a pretty biased and one-sided view on how raiders and casuals "discuss their situation"

There is a bunch of jerk solo players who think they should have it all and make noisy complaints and demands about it. And there is a bunch of would-be raiders who just want to show off to the casuals in an aggressive manner. There's jerks on both sides. And there is cool people on both sides. No need to downplay the other.

 

BUT...by the same token I think solo players' playstyle should be respected and supported too. It's frustrating as a solo player to be denigrated and told "IT'S AN MMO! GROOOOOUUUUP!!!" every time one brings up the issue of not wanting a story chain to end in group play.

This just sounds so silly to me (someone who has been following this shift to make everything casual friendly for 7 years..) that a casual player would say "casual content" should also be respected, when for the past 3 years BW has done nothing but respect the casual players, and not really give anything new to groupers. They've spent 3+ years simplifying content, taking our old main stats away, level syncing everything, removing companion gearing requirement, converting FPs to solos, making lowbie fps kolto spamfest so you dont even have to know how to tank or heal to beat them, lowbie pvp offers next to no rewards now (you even lv 5x slower via just pvp than by questing) and thats just some of the things they've worked on to "casualize" the old content, rather than making new content.

And there is my issue, since I've played 7 years and played everything, if all their "new" content is basically "making old stuff soloable", then what is a vet getting out of this? We've already done all of that anyway... If you were vet who was into story kotfe/et was a treat for you. If you were a vet who liked grouping more you really haven't gotten anything new to brag about for 3+ years now, hence the upset and general lack of raiders because they all moved to other games. The casuals have hijacked swtor for for the past few years quite literally... and apparently that still isnt enough for them. It's like they'd want all the raiders and pvper to leave all together :\

 

You know why? Because those ppl are not real raiders.

 

Real raiders don't care about what others can get, they just want to have their fun with challenge, which this game didn't provide enough new content.

 

Elitists, however care more about their "pride and exclusive reward" than anything else, so they love to pick on casuals.

 

If I'm a raider, I got ZERO reason to stay in this game because there are so few new content to play with, why should I stay in this game at all?

 

Bioware simply pissed both sides.

 

They set up level sync and blostered all the ops to 70, which mean casuals can't walk it through with their level advantage, and none of these other than the new ops GotM could grab real raiders' attention.

I second this statement.

[Pirana]

Why do harder level deserve inherently deserve more? that is a very elitist comment...what makes your preference of play better than the others?

 

It has nothing to do with being elitist. People that put in more work, should get better rewards, It's no different than life itself. Joe who sits on his azz all day long while John is out putting in the work, shouldn't get the same benefits as John. I'll leave politics out of this due to forum guidelines. Simple fact is, the harder end game content you can't just stroll through like the SM stuff, therefore you should never receive the same drops.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Pirana

[IoNonSoEVero]

This just sounds so silly to me (someone who has been following this shift to make everything casual friendly for 7 years..) that a casual player would say "casual content" should also be respected, when for the past 3 years BW has done nothing but respect the casual players, and not really give anything new to groupers. They've spent 3+ years simplifying content, taking our old main stats away, level syncing everything, removing companion gearing requirement, converting FPs to solos, making lowbie fps kolto spamfest so you dont even have to know how to tank or heal to beat them, lowbie pvp offers next to no rewards now (you even lv 5x slower via just pvp than by questing) and thats just some of the things they've worked on to "casualize" the old content, rather than making new content.

And there is my issue, since I've played 7 years and played everything, if all their "new" content is basically "making old stuff soloable", then what is a vet getting out of this? We've already done all of that anyway... If you were vet who was into story kotfe/et was a treat for you. If you were a vet who liked grouping more you really haven't gotten anything new to brag about for 3+ years now, hence the upset and general lack of raiders because they all moved to other games. The casuals have hijacked swtor for for the past few years quite literally... and apparently that still isnt enough for them. It's like they'd want all the raiders and pvper to leave all together :\

 

You're conflating what BW does with what the playerbase does. EVERY time there's a player raising a concern on the forum, the answer from some posters is ALWAYS "group or go to the PvP instance!" If there's an objection to that, the OP is denigrated. Every time someone says that it would be nice to solo the other flashpoints, they're denigrated. Every time someone says they don't like grouping, they're denigrated and asked "WHY are you here?" There seems to be zero respect for people who prefer to play solo and a constant need for raiders and PvPers to call them out about it.

 

As to making the other flashpoints soloable, and the fact that you would not get anything out of that...not every change will benefit every player. Solo players are told they should be happy that PvP is now a part of strongholds, that the last year was basically nothing but an Op and PvP maps, and that any story content is now shoveled into the ends of flashpoints or two-minute cut scenes. We're constantly told that we need to be happy about other playstyles getting something, even if we get nothing out of it.

 

So maybe the answer is that no, you personally won't get anything out of it, but other players will, and maybe it's a moment to be happy they're getting something - just as we're all told to be happy for PvPers this summer and were told to be happy for raiders getting the Gods from the Machine Op. Whatever BW did in the past, giving solo and story players nothing for a few years won't work any more than ignoring the raiders did.

Edited July 18, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Kiesu]

You're conflating what BW does with what the playerbase does. EVERY time there's a player raising a concern on the forum, the answer from some posters is ALWAYS "group or go to the PvP instance!" If there's an objection to that, the OP is denigrated. Every time someone says that it would be nice to solo the other flashpoints, they're denigrated. Every time someone says they don't like grouping, they're denigrated and asked "WHY are you here?" There seems to be zero respect for people who prefer to play solo and a constant need for raiders and PvPers to call them out about it.

They're rising their voice because in amazement that someone plays an mmo never wants to interact with another player... That's what single-player games are for.

Why do we have game genres if they mean nothing?

Just because one aspect of a game is solo or multiplayer, doesnt make the entire game solo or multiplayer, that's why we have game genres to dictate what it is primarly.

Xcom is solo game but it was versus mode for those who want it, it's still a single-player game. Mass Effect has multiplayer option but it's still a single-player game. Heartstone has solo campaign but it's still a multiplayer game. Street Fighter has single player story mode but it's still a multiplayer game. SWTOR has soloable content but it's still a massively MULTIPLAYER online game.

This is why people rise their hands in awe when someone comes in and says "hey you know that multiplayer game you are playing, it's actually a single player game because I personally play it that way, the genre dont mean anything!". Because genre does mean something. It's not just the icing on the cake, it's the actual cake. That additional content outside of the actual genre/cake, is the icing, not the other way around. Insisting anything else is just wrong.

 

NOBODY is telling you not to play Heartstone if the solo campaign and bot game is all you want out of it. But if you go on their forum and go "BRO this is clearly a single player game, it got a campaign!" and demand every weekly pvp event should be made pve because reasons, yeah you're going to get some real long looks.

 

Do you realize how silly you sound insisting that MMO is not actually multiplayer? You've said that multiple posts now. I don't understand how your mind works.

 

So. You like playing the story. Theres plenty story. It can be done solo or multiplayer. Does that make SWTOR a singleplayer game? No. There is a lot more content that can be done multiplayer, than there is content that can be done solo-only. Hence the game genre being MMO.

 

As to making the other flashpoints soloable, and the fact that you would not get anything out of that...not every change will benefit every player. Solo players are told they should be happy that PvP is now a part of strongholds, that the last year was basically nothing but an Op and PvP maps, and that any story content is now shoveled into the ends of flashpoints or two-minute cut scenes. We're constantly told that we need to be happy about other playstyles getting something, even if we get nothing out of it.

My previous points reply to this as well. But I'll also say to this you would have gotten a lot more story if the story community wouldn't have wet their undies for having to wait the story for so long and nag about it so mercilessly it got cut and showed into a one-big-bulk of chapters super fast so the story people would stop crying about having to wait for their stuff! Heck. I was looking forward to the full story, where is it now? :\

I'm sorry but you screwed yourselves over with that one. Not the pve-raiders fault casuals couldn't keep their shirts on long enough

 

So maybe the answer is that no, you personally won't get anything out of it, but other players will, and maybe it's a moment to be happy they're getting something - just as we're all told to be happy for PvPers this summer and were told to be happy for raiders getting the Gods from the Machine Op. Whatever BW did in the past, giving solo and story players nothing for a few years won't work any more than ignoring the raiders did.

Sheesh, we got one pvp map. The other was a re-skin of an already existing map. I guess they ran out of ideas. Would you be happy with the exact copy Makeb story but all the characters got replaced by lanas and therons but all the dialog and quests would still be the same? I didn't think so.

 

We got one operation over the span of two years. How many chapters and other solo content did you get over the past 2 years again? I'm too tired open the game up to check all the chapters and star fortresses and championships and alerts. But i'm betting it's _a lot_

 

We're finally getting some match making to warzones (people have been only asking for that feature for 7 years). And a pvp stronghold that literally nobody ever asked for. Wohoo to us?

Edited July 18, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

They're rising their voice because in amazement that someone plays an mmo never wants to interact with another player... That's what single-player games are for.

(snip)

 

No, you're not showing any respect to another playstyle that is valid. You're justifying bashing another player and denigrating them because they don't play the way YOU want and how YOU see an MMO. Everything you're saying, about solo players "wetting their undies" and whining because they actually want content they can play just demonstrates that lack of respect.

 

This isn't a game just for raiders or PvPers. This is a game for numerous playstyles, solo play has always been a big part of it and possible for almost all the content, and it's been that way since Day One. If you can't accept that, it's your issue. Not solo players'. They have a right to ask for content they want, just as you have a right to complain endlessly that the devs don't give you enough opportunities to run around in a pack and bash things.

 

If that's the tack one takes, then you can't expect solo players to support raiders or PvPers, or to support content for them. Period.

 

You've made your thoughts on this clear, but I do hope you realize that all you've done is reinforce the stereotypes of raiders as aggressive, overbearing and unpleasant people who want to push their playstyles on everyone and have no respect for other players.

Edited July 18, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Kiesu]

No, you're not showing any respect to another playstyle that is valid. You're justifying bashing another player and denigrating them because they don't play the way YOU want and how YOU see an MMO. Everything you're saying, about solo players "wetting their undies" and whining because they actually want content they can play just demonstrates that lack of respect.

 

This isn't a game just for raiders or PvPers. This is a game for numerous playstyles, it's been that way since Day One, and if you can't accept that, it's your issue. Not solo players'. They have a right to ask for content they want, just as you have a right to complain endlessly that the devs don't give you enough opportunities to run around in a pack and bash things.

 

If that's the tack one takes, then you can't expect solo players to support raiders or PvPers, or to support content for them. Period. It's just reinforcing the stereotypes of raiders as aggressive, overbearing jerks who want to push their playstyles on everyone and have no respect for other players.

...Did you even read my previous comment? ANY of my previous comments?

Ok, let me say it to you, for like the 10th time... I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS A GAME JUST FOR RAIDERS AND PVPERS AND NOT FOR SOLOS/CASUALS. QUOTE ME SAYING THAT OR SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT BECAUSE THAT IS A FALSE STATEMENT AND YOU'RE ACTIVELY TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Quote now pls. Or stop. Just stop.

These false accusations are all in your head, you won't find me ever saying anything of the sort..

 

Let me quote myself on what I just said previously because I think you missed it:

Just because one aspect of a game is solo or multiplayer, doesnt make the entire game solo or multiplayer, that's why we have game genres to dictate what it is primarly.

Xcom is solo game but it was versus mode for those who want it, it's still a single-player game. Mass Effect has multiplayer option but it's still a single-player game. Heartstone has solo campaign but it's still a multiplayer game. Street Fighter has single player story mode but it's still a multiplayer game. SWTOR has soloable content but it's still a massively MULTIPLAYER online game.

This is why people rise their hands in awe when someone comes in and says "hey you know that multiplayer game you are playing, it's actually a single player game because I personally play it that way, the genre dont mean anything!". Because genre does mean something. It's not just the icing on the cake, it's the actual cake. That additional content outside of the actual genre/cake, is the icing, not the other way around. Insisting anything else is just wrong.

 

NOBODY is telling you not to play Heartstone if the solo campaign and bot game is all you want out of it. But if you go on their forum and go "BRO this is clearly a single player game, it got a campaign!" and demand every weekly pvp event should be made pve because reasons, yeah you're going to get some real long looks.

 

So. You like playing the story. Theres plenty story. It can be done solo or multiplayer. Does that make SWTOR a singleplayer game? No. There is a lot more content that can be done multiplayer, than there is content that can be done solo-only. Hence the game genre being MMO.

 

Yes undies was a harsh comment I admit... But doesn't change the main culprit of the issue you described.

Also did I mention that you casuals have gotten far more content than pvp/raiders during the past 3 years? Yeah, I did. How are we pushing anything on you? What exactly are we pushing on you? Tell me this. Because as far as I have seen from reading this thread, they have just stated the state of multiplayer content. Not pushing anything on you. Maybe a quote would help here, too. Find a quote of "groupers" making you do things you don't want to.

It's just you yelling that everyone is being mean at you. I'm not getting upset, why are you?

Edited July 19, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

.

(snip)

 

Now you're just ranting, and again, just reinforcing every negative stereotype about raiders as being aggressive, rude and unpleasant. I think we're done here. You've repeatedly bashed and denigrated solo players, claim they've ruined the game and justified negative responses toward them, and you continue to do so.

 

If you don't think this is a game only for raiders and groupers, then there's no reason to complain if changes are made that benefit solo or casual players, if they get content or if there are nerfs made for them. There's no reason to "express amazement" if someone says they don't want to group or ask them "why are you in this game?" But all you've done is rant and rave about how they've spent time on those play styles, and how you personally wouldn't get anything out of solo flashpoints.

 

If you can't read my points and are going to shout and get upset, no point continuing this conversation. /blocked.

Edited July 18, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Kiesu]

Now you're just ranting, and again, just reinforcing every negative stereotype about raiders as being aggressive, rude and unpleasant. I think we're done here. You've repeatedly bashed and denigrated solo players, claim they've ruined the game and justified negative responses toward them, and you continue to do so.

 

If you don't think this is a game only for raiders and groupers, then there's no reason to complain if changes are made that benefit solo or casual players, if they get content or if there are nerfs made for them. There's no reason to "express amazement" if someone says they don't want to group or ask them "why are you in this game?" But all you've done is rant and rave about how they've spent time on those play styles, and how you personally wouldn't get anything out of solo flashpoints.

 

If you can't read my points and are going to shout and get upset, no point continuing this conversation. /blocked.

 

I see you didn't find me saying any of the things you claim I did, otherwise there would be a quote, like I asked for IN ALL CAPS. I don't like people lying trough their teeth :\

Yeah, we're done here. Slandering me didn't work out for you did it

It's funny you're telling me I'm upset too, when i literally just said I wasn't upset. So you weren't reading after all?

 

Too bad you couldn't see my side of the conversation, or even agree that MMO is an MMO and single player game is a single player game... Have a nice week.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Kiesu

[AlienEyeTX]

Just reading through the first couple of pages of comments... I think OP is just trolling. No rational person would believe that rewards should be the same regardless of difficulty of content. And if they do think that... well, they can just be prepared for disappointment.

 

Now, any mission should be able to be abandoned. I agree with that. Especially if it is not required for advancement. But ranting about it to CS is pretty pointless.