Slowpokeking Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 In another thread someone brought up another good reason to avoid ending story arcs in Ops that cannot be removed from the log. Namely, that even if a person LIKES Ops and does them, they might not want to do the Ops on every single alt they bring through Iokath and do them again and again. Also there's the situation with the end of the Macrobinoculars and Dread Seed quests, where even if a person WANTS to group it can be impossible to find people to do it with, because as I understand it, those quests require everyone to be at the same point in the arc. So ending story arcs with group content has those drawbacks, too. I know the devs feel that it might encourage people to try grouping, but I think more often than not, it ends with those quest lines just remaining unfinished and players feeling frustrated. Yeah, Macrobinoculars and Dread Seeds are the worst way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Is there anyone here willing to take on the roll of tutor when it comes to Ops and the like? I like to run everything that can be run with a normal group, but I run with RL friends in the same room, just because it's easier to communicate and coordinate. I know most guilds have chats that they use for this reason. I would love to run some OPs, but beings how I have never done that content, I think of myself as a liability rather than an asset and I've been made to think that by others in this game. I've done group finder before with just FPs and I've had the misfortune to run across jerks every time. Either they yell at you for wanting to listen to the quest giver (I swear, if someone tells me "space bar is your friend" one more time, I'll reach through my pc and strangle them), take off running as soon as the FP opens and leaves the rest in the dust to deal with any aggo'd baddies, or get pissed that some won't "play their way" and quit in the middle of a fight. All in all, group content, from my prospective, sucks. I'd love to be able to see some of this stuff, but unless quite a few someones are willing to actually play nice for once, I never will. Yes, there is plenty of guilds who'd be just happy getting more peeps for their random group content (don't matter if you've done them zero or a hundred times before). In general people would rather raid/fp/pvp with a guildie than random salty pugs. Not that you never come across jerks like this but the chances are lower, and when you have a buddies on the group with you salty bois suddenly look a lot less aggressive when you can just laugh em off with a bud. I don't personally mind newbs in my groups as long as you can read chat and act on it. Most fight mechanics in this game are not hard to grasp, they get hard and precise when you go to hardmode or nightmare OPS. People who complain about listening story mid FP are usually vets who were used to do storymode fps at certain level to progress and gear up... but after BW made all FPs into one big bulk of "veteran/tactical" fps most new players have no idea what quest chain starts from where and in what order are you even supposed to do them. BW mixed the continuity of the FP stories totally by removing the trait-forward "do X fp at X lv" which was pretty clear guideline what order in should you be doing the fp stories (most of them actually have quests for them on fleet, the full story isn't just in the fp cutscenes). It's ok to watch cutscenes in FPs. I guess the only FP everyone will hate you for watching is Talon/Esseles, because they have SO many cutscenes, and it was the very first FP everyone would have gone though already while lvling before arriving on Dromund Kaas/Coruscant. In another thread someone brought up another good reason to avoid ending story arcs in Ops that cannot be removed from the log. Namely, that even if a person LIKES Ops and does them, they might not want to do the Ops on every single alt they bring through Iokath and do them again and again. I haven't done the OPS on Iokath on every single character either, and I like group content. I pick and choose the content I want to do on my characters, I dont feel the need to do every story and every ops and every fp on all my 50+ characters. That would take me forever. I have only done KOTFE/ET chapters on 8 of my 50+ toons, cba with the rest of them. Iokath on like.. 4. I don't feel especially forced to do them. Edited July 23, 2018 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) In another thread someone brought up another good reason to avoid ending story arcs in Ops that cannot be removed from the log. Namely, that even if a person LIKES Ops and does them, they might not want to do the Ops on every single alt they bring through Iokath and do them again and again. Also there's the situation with the end of the Macrobinoculars and Dread Seed quests, where even if a person WANTS to group it can be impossible to find people to do it with, because as I understand it, those quests require everyone to be at the same point in the arc. So ending story arcs with group content has those drawbacks, too. I know the devs feel that it might encourage people to try grouping, but I think more often than not, it ends with those quest lines just remaining unfinished and players feeling frustrated. I have always been of the opinion to keep group content and solo content separate, so if something starts as solo content it needs to be able to be fully completed as solo player, like wise if something starts as group content don't stick a solo arc in the middle (Oricon). It's one thing to offer incentives to do group content, but its another to 'require' it to complete a solo task. One of the main group content issues is Oricon, I feel people look at it the wrong way, as the players who have the issues with it are solo players, now the problem is not so much needing operations to complete the solo planet, rather the fact the Devs inserted a solo planet into a operations storyline. Edited July 23, 2018 by Jedi_riches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 It's ok to watch cutscenes in FPs. I guess the only FP everyone will hate you for watching is Talon/Esseles, because they have SO many cutscenes, and it was the very first FP everyone would have gone though already while lvling before arriving on Dromund Kaas/Coruscant. More to the point, for BT/SLS, it's perfectly fair to suggest that if you want to watch the cut-scenes, you should do them in solo mode. The same applies to all the other "has solo" FPs, but BT/SLS even more so than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I have always been of the opinion to keep group content and solo content separate, so if something starts as solo content it needs to be able to be fully completed as solo player, like wise if something starts as group content don't stick a solo arc in the middle (Oricon). It's one thing to offer incentives to do group content, but its another to 'require' it to complete a solo task. One of the main group content issues is Oricon, I feel people look at it the wrong way, as the players who have the issues with it are solo players, now the problem is not so much needing operations to complete the solo planet, rather the fact the Devs inserted a solo planet into a operations storyline. I'm of the same opinion. Keep it separate If they want to encourage people to try group content there are other ways to do that without leading them through a solo quest chain and then springing a group activity on them. When I first started playing Oricon was also a purple quest. They've changed that now, but I distinctly remember that when I started playing it was positioned as a main story quest, which I think most players think of as quests they're obliged to complete. Putting a solo planet into an Ops chain makes little sense. Dread Masters goes back and forth several times between solo and group stuff, as well. The Imperial planetary quest on Belsavis is freeing them, and Section X sets up that they've gone rogue. But the rest of it is Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 More to the point, for BT/SLS, it's perfectly fair to suggest that if you want to watch the cut-scenes, you should do them in solo mode. The same applies to all the other "has solo" FPs, but BT/SLS even more so than the others. Which may be another reason to have all flashpoints have a solo mode so people will stop fussing at people watching cutscenes as there are some people that don't know there are some fp without solo mode and get aggravated when someone watches a cutscene on a fp that doesn't have a solo mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Which may be another reason to have all flashpoints have a solo mode so people will stop fussing at people watching cutscenes as there are some people that don't know there are some fp without solo mode and get aggravated when someone watches a cutscene on a fp that doesn't have a solo mode. People are still watching cutscenes on FPs that have solo mode available though, so I don't think it'd help that much. The FPs that have most cut-scenes are already soloable (3+ cutscenes) (apart from D7 and LI, correct me if I'm wrong), yet I still find people watching the taral/maelstorm/foundry/boarding... I don't personally mind though, I'll just browse something on my second monitor meanwhile. ...now the problem is not so much needing operations to complete the solo planet, rather the fact the Devs inserted a solo planet into a operations storyline. Huh. I never looked at it that way. True, I'd much rather not do the solo planet every time want to Ops on a new toon to get the end reward. I'd much rather pick up the story quest for Ops separately (like Rishi story is separate from the Ravagers ops story quest on Rishi). But I'm not terribly bothered by this. Edited July 23, 2018 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I'd like to suggest the opposite of this thread and say START FORCING GROUP CONTENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Which may be another reason to have all flashpoints have a solo mode so people will stop fussing at people watching cutscenes as there are some people that don't know there are some fp without solo mode and get aggravated when someone watches a cutscene on a fp that doesn't have a solo mode. Yes, and main story line should have something work like SoR's ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Which may be another reason to have all flashpoints have a solo mode so people will stop fussing at people watching cutscenes as there are some people that don't know there are some fp without solo mode and get aggravated when someone watches a cutscene on a fp that doesn't have a solo mode. IMHO that is a really important point. Watching the cut scenes and having time to check out the scenery and explore are important to many players but don't really make people happy in groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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