why gods of the machine rarely form in fleet?

[DeannaVoyager]

I like the op, but I would never pug it, because a) it's too long b) not enough people know the mechanics c) because it's too long people start rage quitting and I would never be able to finish so I rather just not waste my time on it at all.

 

Funny thing is that people would learn the mechanics just by playing it, and there's usually someone in the group willing to explain, but because of reasons A and B, people don't play it and won't get the practise. It should be more pug friendly, or shorter, or whatever to make it more attractive for more people. I even skip LB runs because it takes forever to get to Izax, and I might end up fighting for 15 mins and still not kill it. Another pull, another 15 minutes and so on. So no, I won't pug it. I don't have time or patience for that.

[mrphstar]

And this is Story Mode, which is made to let every ppl do it. You ask for challenge, there is HM, this is WHY difficulty is made in the first place.

.

 

You can repeat that phrase over and over again. That doesnt make it more true. There will be always challenges in story mode. There will always be challenges in video games. And there will always be people who cant master them, if they are not willing to improve or try new ways. Thats the whole thing of games ffs, challenges. You want story without challenge? Watch a movie then, but please stop crying and destroying our game by making it even more borring.

[AlrikFassbauer]

You can repeat that phrase over and over again. That doesnt make it more true. There will be always challenges in story mode. There will always be challenges in video games. And there will always be people who cant master them, if they are not willing to improve or try new ways. Thats the whole thing of games ffs, challenges. You want story without challenge? Watch a movie then, but please stop crying and destroying our game by making it even more borring.

 

Remember both Revan story OPs when they were new ? And no-one managed to finish them ? People wanted a challenge. Next thing they were crying that almost no-one could beat them, even in story mode.

[mrphstar]

Remember both Revan story OPs when they were new ? And no-one managed to finish them ? People wanted a challenge. Next thing they were crying that almost no-one could beat them, even in story mode.

 

Exactly, and thats the reason why IZAX HM got beaten 7-maned few weeks after release. No long term challenges anymore cause of cry babys and in result loosing endgame players. Its a shame.

[viernedeuxieme]

And this is Story Mode, which is made to let every ppl do it. You ask for challenge, there is HM, this is WHY difficulty is made in the first place.

I'm not asking for challenge, I gave you the game description of operations from the group finder. It said it's meant to be challenging - and if that description is on group finder, it's describing story mode operations. I like to think of the devs meaning it as this: operations, even on story mode, are not to be trifled with. If everyone can coordinate with others, listen to instructions, think for themselves and have group awareness - a very, very basic level of requirement - then yes, they can clear Gods SM. They can do everything. Wouldn't that be nice.

[merovejec]

So you are obviously lying.

 

Yes, keep telling yourself that.

[FlameYOL]

Then we got less and less ppl doing it, finding groups become more and more difficult, it's not like this game is gaining players. So ensure the majority could do these ops is a very important issue or pug groups will die out.

 

I'm playing at Satele Shan server, even ordinary SM ops could take quite long to form sometimes, that's the current situation now.

 

It's one, ONE, operation that has the level of challenge before SM was nerfed into a joke. For new players or pugs unwilling to follow instructions then yeah, do the other raids. Again just because they're SM raids doesn't mean they need to be a joke, as other poster has stated it requires coordination and blah blah blah, point is. Maybe nerf a little bit, more so damage percentages and maybe extend Nahut's catalyst phase to 60 seconds, but leave the mechanics there, I hate when they removed the screaming mechanic on TFB, or when they removed the crystals from DP, I'll hate it if GOTM just becomes something I can just faceroll through. If they do nerf it though then so should the rewards, GOTM is harder than the rest of SM but it also gives better loot in comparison, I don't think it should be nerfed because it would take out the fun in the challenge of it, it's one thing when Bioware completely messes up the balance of a bossfight like 3.0 with AOEs that hinders melee players, but to me GOTM is more finely tuned than a lot of things, it's more about following mechanics and basic combat things, save for Izax of course, which requires at least 2 people to know the fight to carry everyone else through the mechanics.

[CrazyScruffy]

Then we got less and less ppl doing it, finding groups become more and more difficult, it's not like this game is gaining players. So ensure the majority could do these ops is a very important issue or pug groups will die out.

 

I'm playing at Satele Shan server, even ordinary SM ops could take quite long to form sometimes, that's the current situation now.

 

I play on the Satele Shan server, and other SM ops do not take long to form. its hard to actually get into some since they fill so fast. So not sure what you're talking about. Even GOTM forms fairly quickly.

[Slowpokeking]

I'm not asking for challenge, I gave you the game description of operations from the group finder. It said it's meant to be challenging - and if that description is on group finder, it's describing story mode operations. I like to think of the devs meaning it as this: operations, even on story mode, are not to be trifled with. If everyone can coordinate with others, listen to instructions, think for themselves and have group awareness - a very, very basic level of requirement - then yes, they can clear Gods SM. They can do everything. Wouldn't that be nice.

No, it's meant to let everyone be able to finish it. That's why it's called Story Mode.

 

You can't decide what other ppl do, if they think it's too much for them, they gave up and it's hard to form pug groups even if you are good enough. Especially on trash mobs, ppl are not going to spend much effort.

 

Also GotM's major problem is not difficulty(other than IZAX), but the length, the trash mobs should be reduced, remove the sniper and puzzle mech and the IZAX fight should be shorter or could restart from a certain phase after you wipe.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

I play on the Satele Shan server, and other SM ops do not take long to form. its hard to actually get into some since they fill so fast. So not sure what you're talking about. Even GOTM forms fairly quickly.

 

No, it only becomes fast in certain time, if you do it on morning and afternoon it could take quite long, and GotM has less call, a lot of them couldn't finish it at well. Most of the pug groups would wipe on M&B in Ravagers.

[Slowpokeking]

It's one, ONE, operation that has the level of challenge before SM was nerfed into a joke. For new players or pugs unwilling to follow instructions then yeah, do the other raids. Again just because they're SM raids doesn't mean they need to be a joke, as other poster has stated it requires coordination and blah blah blah, point is. Maybe nerf a little bit, more so damage percentages and maybe extend Nahut's catalyst phase to 60 seconds, but leave the mechanics there, I hate when they removed the screaming mechanic on TFB, or when they removed the crystals from DP, I'll hate it if GOTM just becomes something I can just faceroll through. If they do nerf it though then so should the rewards, GOTM is harder than the rest of SM but it also gives better loot in comparison, I don't think it should be nerfed because it would take out the fun in the challenge of it, it's one thing when Bioware completely messes up the balance of a bossfight like 3.0 with AOEs that hinders melee players, but to me GOTM is more finely tuned than a lot of things, it's more about following mechanics and basic combat things, save for Izax of course, which requires at least 2 people to know the fight to carry everyone else through the mechanics.

 

It's a joke because most of the ppl wanted that way.

 

Other than some bosses of GotM, they are very very very OLD content, if they are fresh ppl would love to try to deal the mechanics but they are so old, ppl got bored of them and don't want to waste too much time on daily. Like myself, I don't want to waste my time on content that I've ran for like 3-4 years and 30-40 times at least. Even Tyth has come out for 1 year+2 months.

 

I think most of GotM bosses' difficulty is acceptable. But it's way too long, IZAX itself could take 10+ mins in 1 try and the whole run is too long. And trash mobs shouldn't take too much effort to deal with.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[FlameYOL]

It's a joke because most of the ppl wanted that way.

 

Other than some bosses of GotM, they are very very very OLD content, if they are fresh ppl would love to try to deal the mechanics but they are so old, ppl got bored of them and don't want to waste too much time on daily. Like myself, I don't want to waste my time on content that I've ran for like 3-4 years and 30-40 times at least. Even Tyth has come out for 1 year+2 months.

 

I think most of GotM bosses' difficulty is acceptable. But it's way too long, IZAX itself could take 10+ mins in 1 try and the whole run is too long. And trash mobs shouldn't take too much effort to deal with.

 

Yeah, and look where that got us, people think they breeze through anything without knowing their class or how to follow mechanics, the game should indeed be flexible and allow everyone to enjoy it but the devs shouldn't have to lower the bar because of our mistakes.

 

So what? I mean so it's old content? We should nerf old content then? That argument doesn't make any sense at all, just because something is old it shouldn't be nerfed to the ground as it has, some tweaks are ok but removing mechanics just because it's old? If anything they should be left there was there was more than enough time to deal with them and learn it.

 

How about lower the quantity of mobs then? I can kind of relate to it being too long, I don't think we should nerf the puzzles though, otherwise it's just boring.

[Slowpokeking]

Yeah, and look where that got us, people think they breeze through anything without knowing their class or how to follow mechanics, the game should indeed be flexible and allow everyone to enjoy it but the devs shouldn't have to lower the bar because of our mistakes.

 

So what? I mean so it's old content? We should nerf old content then? That argument doesn't make any sense at all, just because something is old it shouldn't be nerfed to the ground as it has, some tweaks are ok but removing mechanics just because it's old? If anything they should be left there was there was more than enough time to deal with them and learn it.

 

How about lower the quantity of mobs then? I can kind of relate to it being too long, I don't think we should nerf the puzzles though, otherwise it's just boring.

It's not ppl don't want to know their class or follow mechanics, it's that they don't want to waste their effort on these VERY VERY OLD content. I never do ops before 3.0 and I have done most of these old ops for 30+ times now. Of course I wouldn't want to follow these mechanics in pug groups after so many runs, all I want is the daily reward.

 

Yes, ppl get bored of old content, a normal circle is that new content came out and old ones become easier and easier so both groups will have things to do, sadly it's not the case now. So HM and NIM didn't keep old raiders and casuals couldn't get in. If you do the same with SM it's simply gonna cause much less ppl doing the content.

 

The puzzle doesn't offer any reward. It's also boring if you got to do it every time and pugs mess it up to take very long.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[mrphstar]

It's not ppl don't want to know their class or follow mechanics, it's that they don't want to waste their effort on these VERY VERY OLD content. I never do ops before 3.0 and I have done most of these old ops for 30+ times now. Of course I wouldn't want to follow these mechanics in pug groups after so many runs, all I want is the daily reward.

 

Yes, ppl get bored of old content, a normal circle is that new content came out and old ones become easier and easier so both groups will have things to do, sadly it's not the case now. So HM and NIM didn't keep old raiders and casuals couldn't get in. If you do the same with SM it's simply gonna cause much less ppl doing the content.

 

The puzzle doesn't offer any reward. It's also boring if you got to do it every time and pugs mess it up to take very long.

 

So first you are saying you want them nerfed because you wanna give everyone the chance to enjoy the story. Now you are complaining that it takes YOU too long to get your daily reward and its borring because you did it too many times.

New players didnt see the puzzle yet, so why wouldnt they find it fun to solve it?

 

Man you should be able to carry every pug through it in less than an hour with your amount of experience and should stop crying for nerfs. Should be a cake walk for you then. Why are you calling for changes anyway?

Your whole argumentation makes no sense at all.

[Slowpokeking]

So first you are saying you want them nerfed because you wanna give everyone the chance to enjoy the story. Now you are complaining that it takes YOU too long to get your daily reward and its borring because you did it too many times.

New players didnt see the puzzle yet, so why wouldnt they find it fun to solve it?

 

Man you should be able to carry every pug through it in less than an hour with your amount of experience and should stop crying for nerfs. Should be a cake walk for you then. Why are you calling for changes anyway?

Your whole argumentation makes no sense at all.

 

I'm talking about why most of the ppl didn't want to try too hard for it. I'm not a long time raider and I still get bored of these very very old content, ppl don't want to waste too much effort on them.

 

New players? Let me break your bubble, we don't have many new players otherwise we won't have server merges. The current situation is more and more old players leave and new blood couldn't fill with it. Even if ppl came they are targeting the story, not raid/ops since we got very few new content. Also if you call on the pugs too much they simply ignore you and kick you out. This is group content, if the majority couldn't find it fun, everyone loses, get it right.

 

And let me tell you how does the puzzle "impress" new players. When I did it the first time I got a good group, we've had a good run and when we reached the puzzle, we are very tired because there were so many mobs to kill, a long way to run and already fought 4 bosses. The last thing we would want to have before the long and tough fight of IZAX, was a puzzle that troubles ppl and offers no reward.

[CrazyScruffy]

I'm talking about why most of the ppl didn't want to try too hard for it. I'm not a long time raider and I still get bored of these very very old content, ppl don't want to waste too much effort on them.

 

New players? Let me break your bubble, we don't have many new players otherwise we won't have server merges. The current situation is more and more old players leave and new blood couldn't fill with it. Even if ppl came they are targeting the story, not raid/ops since we got very few new content. Also if you call on the pugs too much they simply ignore you and kick you out. This is group content, if the majority couldn't find it fun, everyone loses, get it right.

 

And let me tell you how does the puzzle "impress" new players. When I did it the first time I got a good group, we've had a good run and when we reached the puzzle, we are very tired because there were so many mobs to kill, a long way to run and already fought 4 bosses. The last thing we would want to have before the long and tough fight of IZAX, was a puzzle that troubles ppl and offers no reward.

 

he never said to impress new players. and the puzzle can be done in like two minutes. if it takes any longer, you're doing it wrong lol.

[mrphstar]

I'm talking about why most of the ppl didn't want to try too hard for it. I'm not a long time raider and I still get bored of these very very old content, ppl don't want to waste too much effort on them.

 

New players? Let me break your bubble, we don't have many new players otherwise we won't have server merges. The current situation is more and more old players leave and new blood couldn't fill with it. Even if ppl came they are targeting the story, not raid/ops since we got very few new content. Also if you call on the pugs too much they simply ignore you and kick you out. This is group content, if the majority couldn't find it fun, everyone loses, get it right.

 

And let me tell you how does the puzzle "impress" new players. When I did it the first time I got a good group, we've had a good run and when we reached the puzzle, we are very tired because there were so many mobs to kill, a long way to run and already fought 4 bosses. The last thing we would want to have before the long and tough fight of IZAX, was a puzzle that troubles ppl and offers no reward.

 

So you just turned my point into yours. Are you kidding me?

First GotM is too hard and should be easier for everyone because story...

Yet you are telling me all content is borring and thats why we lose players. And you already cleared it many times.

 

A nerf wont change the fact that you are borred from doing the same content over and over again, which is indeed very old. These are two totaly different problems.

What is you f***ing point now??

Edited June 17, 2018 by mrphstar

[Slowpokeking]

he never said to impress new players. and the puzzle can be done in like two minutes. if it takes any longer, you're doing it wrong lol.

 

Then why should it exist? It could take quite long if the group mess up, and it was quite often among pugs. I don't see there is ANY need to put such a mech with no reward before the last long fight.

 

It was not welcome even in my first run, imagine if I have to run it with pug for like 10-20 times and do it everytime.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

So you just turned my point into yours. Are you kidding me?

First GotM is too hard and should be easier for everyone because story...

 

I didn't say GotM is too hard other than IZAX, I said it was too long to do and Ravagers needs tuning.

 

Yet you are telling me all content is borring and thats why we lose players. And you already cleared it many times.

 

You are complaining about WHY ppl didn't want to spend effort on these content, and I gave you the answer here.

 

They are too old to bring fun to most of the players, so they just want to have their reward asap with little effort. Now do you get it?

 

A nerf wont change the fact that you are borred from doing the same content over and over again, which is indeed very old. These are two totaly different problems.

What is you f***ing point now??

 

Overall, unless we have enough new content, this game's playerbase is not going anywhere.

 

As for these content, nerf would make more ppl want to run them for quick reward. Simple as that, why aren't you getting it?

Edited June 17, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[CrazyScruffy]

I didn't say GotM is too hard other than IZAX, I said it was too long to do and Ravagers needs tuning.

 

 

 

You are complaining about WHY ppl didn't want to spend effort on these content, and I gave you the answer here.

 

They are too old to bring fun to most of the players, so they just want to have their reward asap with little effort. Now do you get it?

 

 

 

Overall, unless we have enough new content, this game's playerbase is not going anywhere.

 

As for these content, nerf would make more ppl want to run them for quick reward. Simple as that, why aren't you getting it?

 

Ops weren't designed for a quick reward. they are meant to be challenging, that way you actually earned the reward. if you want quick reward, go run daily planets.

[Slowpokeking]

Ops weren't designed for a quick reward. they are meant to be challenging, that way you actually earned the reward. if you want quick reward, go run daily planets.

 

They WEREN'T, but they are daily reward in GF now. Either adjust them into ppl's taste or fewer and fewer ppl do them=everyone loses because it's group content.

 

WHY?

 

1. They are old content, ppl don't want to waste too much effort on them.

2. Modern players no longer want to spend so much time in such content now, they want quick MoB type of games.

[merovejec]

all I want is the daily reward.

 

Well in that case just join the many "last boss" runs that are called on fleet.

[mrphstar]

As for these content, nerf would make more ppl want to run them for quick reward. Simple as that, why aren't you getting it?

 

Untill you ran the nerfed content even more times and it gets even more borring again.

Why i dont get it? Because there is no logic in your point at all.

 

Yesterday , 11:46 PM |*#71

Either adjust them into ppl's taste or fewer and fewer ppl do them=everyone loses because it's group content

 

So now we are talking. Dont know why you came up with this "story is for everyone" -bs first.

All you want is easier CXP cause you are too lazy and to borred to grind it. I got bad news for you: Thats the whole point of an MMO after you cleared all content: grind.

 

And if you are tired of it, which is totaly understandable without new content, you should take a brake or move on to another game, simple as that.

But you dont make content even more borring because some peolple are tired of doing it. That way is a downward spiral you'll never get out of and lose even more players in the process.

Edited June 18, 2018 by mrphstar

[merovejec]

1. They are old content, ppl don't want to waste too much effort on them.

 

Been in this game for years and from what I can tell you people never got tired of running the stuff, no matter how old! There are always new people joining the guild wanting to do stuff for the first time and what do you tell them? Nah, I did that too many times, im not doing that with you! No, you help out, doesnt matter how many times you ran it, its an MMO and its about grouping up with the people and having fun.

 

 

2. Modern players no longer want to spend so much time in such content now, they want quick MoB type of games.

 

Modern players?? Where did you get term from?

The content in the game is as quick as it gets! Even the new Nathema, when Im doing it on MM i use my Shadow/Assasin and when we enter the FPS i say: wait here, stealthing to boss. Then when i arrive at boss the 3 ppl jump off cliff to spawn next to boss! We skip all the annoying adds saving tens of minutes that would be wasted as you get only little cxp and credits from them.

 

If it were up to you, you would finish and operation in 5 minutes killing all 4-6 bosses and what then? You get your reward and what then? Think about it a little!

[FlameYOL]

It's not ppl don't want to know their class or follow mechanics, it's that they don't want to waste their effort on these VERY VERY OLD content. I never do ops before 3.0 and I have done most of these old ops for 30+ times now. Of course I wouldn't want to follow these mechanics in pug groups after so many runs, all I want is the daily reward.

 

Yes, ppl get bored of old content, a normal circle is that new content came out and old ones become easier and easier so both groups will have things to do, sadly it's not the case now. So HM and NIM didn't keep old raiders and casuals couldn't get in. If you do the same with SM it's simply gonna cause much less ppl doing the content.

 

The puzzle doesn't offer any reward. It's also boring if you got to do it every time and pugs mess it up to take very long.

 

So it's old? So what? I mean I don't follow the logic here, yeah it sucks we don't have multiple raids a year but does that really mean we ought to nerf the older ones? Again if you want quick CXP just wait and hope for a last boss lockout group or do easy content if you don't want to be bothered with it.