why gods of the machine rarely form in fleet?

[Slowpokeking]

never said you started this thread.

 

and the only "problem" is mechanics. but those don't constitute themselves as real problems. as for length, it really isn't that long. (ive been in groups doing other ops on SM that took twice as long. but again we were teaching. as most op players will do) and there are mobs you can easily skip, and those that you can't, as long as you kill in the right order it's a breeze. as for puzzles- the bridge is honestly super easy, just need to make sure to stay in bubble, and not push. can be completed in a minute or two. and then the puzzle before Izax, again is super easy. only takes a minute or two to complete.

It is very long with special mechanics, even if you never wipe and no break/afk/dc, a full run would take like 80-90 mins which is too long.

 

It's not you think it's long or not, it's how do the majority think about it. They are "new content" and the only ops content we've had since SoR, if they could not even compete with those very old content which most of the ppl are already bored of, they are bad design, simple.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[viernedeuxieme]

It is very long with special mechanics, even if you never wipe and no break/afk/dc, a full run would take like 80-90 mins which is too long.

 

I'm looking at my first Izax SM parse from 5.8 patch day and we took 1 hour to clear the first 4 bosses, all one shots. It might be on the longer side but it's on par with the time taken to run SNV and TFB.

[CrazyScruffy]

It is very long with special mechanics, even if you never wipe and no break/afk/dc, a full run would take like 80-90 mins which is too long.

 

It's not you think it's long or not, it's how do the majority think about it. They are "new content" and the only ops content we've had since SoR, if they could not even compete with those very old content which most of the ppl are already bored of, they are bad design, simple.

 

if an op took less then an hour, (not talking about the one boss ops, those don't count) I don't consider it worth my time. and like the other posted stated, it is in line with the other ops. Maybe it doesn't feel like it to you, but it is.

 

and where is the majority of players saying its too much? I only see you

[Maxitrac]

pls don't nerf it, it's fine how it is. challenging things are good things, it's the only way you get better.

[merovejec]

Story Mode=Let everyone be able to finish the story, it shouldn't be too hard. Same thing with ToS and Ravagers.

 

Its funny that you compare it with Ravagers as the "story" for that ops is also quite unclear, same as GotM. The lines Izax has were removed and the Story pretty much ends with defeating Tyth! Ravagers also didnt come with a clear story but people ran the ops anyway and many times, until MaB were scaled and became too hard for the average pug.

 

The only operations that really have a story that is relevant to the given area is DF and DP but those are perfectly doable on SM and have been nerfed already in the past.

 

Most of them are easy but it's overall too long, we got 5 bosses already the whole walk/run should be shorter and easier on the SCYVA snipers and the puzzle.

 

Why should it be short? I mean where do you get this information about an operation having to be short? I didnt play other MMOs, but I know how it was in WoW and its pretty much the same. There were even Dungeons that took very long to do, but it was done same as in swtor that you had Dungeons, which for example even took place in just one room, with adds coming in through portals so you just spent the whole "Flashpoint" in one room.

 

Operations are meant to be group activities, that do take some time to do, thats how its currently setup in MMOs and Bioware is just following the current trend.

 

Story Mode=Let everyone be able to experience stuff.

 

Also remember it's repeatable content, some mech would be fun the first time you do it but gonna get annoying when you repeat it with pugs, especially trash mobs.

 

Everyone IS experiencing stuff. Its just that some are experiencing getting the reward at the end and some are experiencing wiping on Nahut!

 

MMOs are all about repeatable content, I cant imagine you playing SWG where you had to do stuff over and over again the entire time, like mining! Do you see people complaing that making credits with running heroics over and over again is boring? Or should take shorter? No, people like it the way it is. People are fine with doing the same stuff over and over again as there is an award in the end, which can be used for many other things.

 

People already make the ops shorter by just doing the last bosses of the ops (which the Devs should consider changing) to get the groupfinder reward fast.

 

This is STORY MODE, which means it's made to let everyone be able to experience the content. Of course it should be passable to everyone without too much time and trouble.

 

You are confusing parts of an MMO here. This way you can say the same about PVP. Its there for everyone to experience, you just que and try it out, get killed and then go to forums saying PVP is too hard, please nerft it? same goes for Eternal Championship, I bet you didnt even try that one. Its there for everyone to experience, so you are saying that should also be done so that its passable for everyone? What point would the "Sprint Champion" achievement then have?

 

As for GotM, I don't think most of its content is very hard other than IZAX, but it's too long and time consuming because of the long run, even if you don't wipe or only wipe 1-2 times, it's gonna take 90 mins at least with pugs, many of them would require 2-3 hours to do it. The trash mob length and tricks needs to be adjusted and there should be a quicker fight for IZAX, at least not let ppl to do it all over again if they wipe.

 

When was the last time you did Scum and Villany SM? That ops takes much longer than GotM! I am starting to see a pattern here. GotM is the only ops giving 242 gear on SM, which means if you farm gear its better to run this ops on SM rather than the other operations on HM, so I guess that is what you are aiming at, easy and fast gear!

 

I'm playing at Satele Shan server, even ordinary SM ops could take quite long to form sometimes, that's the current situation now.

 

Have you considered swaping servers? This has been an issue from day 1, even we swapped to Red Eclipse in the past cause at that time people ran NiMs as pug groups and there was a high chance of being successful at that time! Servers are all located in the same place so you shouldn't experience any connection issues. Swaping server for better raiding is a pretty normal thing to do.

 

No, it's meant to let everyone be able to finish it. That's why it's called Story Mode.

 

Now you are confusing this with the mode which is in the new Flashpoints and is meant to play the story. Yes, in the latest FPS you have 4 modes, Solo, Story, Veteran and Master. With Story being the one, where you get the cutscenes etc, its basically a one-time mission since afterwards you will only have the Solo option. Operations are NOT Flashpoints, keep that in mind!

 

Other than some bosses of GotM, they are very very very OLD content

VERY VERY OLD content

 

I am surprised you still didnt give up on the game with this attitude. As people told you before this is an MMO, its encouraging people to group up and have fun together. In such a case it doesn't matter if you play and 20 year old game with silly graphics, you just have fun. If you join a pug you it can be frustrating but those are the times, where you have to show your human side and provide assistance. If you know the ops then explain, help the people etc. grouping up encourages people to socialize!

 

I have done most of these old ops for 30+ times now. Of course I wouldn't want to follow these mechanics in pug groups after so many runs, all I want is the daily reward.

 

Yes, ppl get bored of old content, a normal circle is that new content came out and old ones become easier and easier so both groups will have things to do, sadly it's not the case now.

 

heh 30+ ops that is really nothing mate. What you do need to realize is the fun element in the operations. There are many things you can do differently and for fun.

- There are adds in DF who kill people upon exploding,

- as tank have Grob-thok smash the group nonstop without using the magnet

- pull mines into players on Izax fight

- kill other players on purpose in Rugar hostage situation

- purposely aoe the group with boss damage at several boss encounters

- purposely remove incorrect platforms in Tyrans fight

- pull people into Corruptor Zero beam

- let orbs go into group at Brontes fight

 

and many many more funny things to do for fun in the very very very old ops.

Edited June 20, 2018 by merovejec

[merovejec]

nobody wants to have fun on these, they just want reward.

 

And this statement just sums it up!!

[Spartanator]

Just got back into the game. Never have done GOTM and did not want to do it until it was finished anyway. I'll be interested to see how difficult it is for a story mode operation.

 

As a disclaimer, I am also someone who came for the story, was a ****** dps, did not want to do group content, did an operation and then got hooked. Started as a "story mode warrior" and then eventually became a mid-level raider (completed a lot of hard mode and nightmare content, but not all). I enjoy challenge in all content since I am a bit of a masochist, but I also see no point in doing anything that is completely mindless (if I am actively engaging in said activity). I would say in my week back I have not seen many time that the operation was in general chat unlike the craziness of ToS and Ravagers back in 3.0. I thought if anything there would be "GOTM up to x boss" that happened all the time especially when weeklies did not go to the end of the operation.

 

I think if anything this should be a forum post that guides people to the resources they need to understand the game better if they are interested in completing these harder content. Although also give the off advice here and there to players that are struggling or clearly are just mashing Rapid Shots could be helpful to the systemic issue.

[FlameYOL]

Yeah, so ppl just want quick run and reward, if it becomes too long/need much effort it's not worthy since most of them only drop 236 and GotM 242.

 

Like I've said, GotM's main problem is not difficulty, but length.

 

If so I have a few ideas to help.

For starter lower the number of adds between each boss, as for the sniper puzzle instead of the sniper knocking you back in SM he merely takes away half or 1/4 of your health, that way people don't have to re-start all over it. And I have no idea how to nerf the other puzzle, perhaps add a greater number of those Iokath things you have to use?

 

It is very long with special mechanics, even if you never wipe and no break/afk/dc, a full run would take like 80-90 mins which is too long.

 

It's not you think it's long or not, it's how do the majority think about it. They are "new content" and the only ops content we've had since SoR, if they could not even compete with those very old content which most of the ppl are already bored of, they are bad design, simple.

I really don't think one hour and a half is that long to be honest.

[Slowpokeking]

if an op took less then an hour, (not talking about the one boss ops, those don't count) I don't consider it worth my time. and like the other posted stated, it is in line with the other ops. Maybe it doesn't feel like it to you, but it is.

 

and where is the majority of players saying its too much? I only see you

 

This isn't 2005 or 2010, ppl want quick content and if it's too long, they don't do it, simple.

[Slowpokeking]

Its funny that you compare it with Ravagers as the "story" for that ops is also quite unclear, same as GotM. The lines Izax has were removed and the Story pretty much ends with defeating Tyth! Ravagers also didnt come with a clear story but people ran the ops anyway and many times, until MaB were scaled and became too hard for the average pug.

 

The only operations that really have a story that is relevant to the given area is DF and DP but those are perfectly doable on SM and have been nerfed already in the past.

 

It still got plot, it's used to let ppl experience what's going on.

 

 

Why should it be short? I mean where do you get this information about an operation having to be short? I didnt play other MMOs, but I know how it was in WoW and its pretty much the same. There were even Dungeons that took very long to do, but it was done same as in swtor that you had Dungeons, which for example even took place in just one room, with adds coming in through portals so you just spent the whole "Flashpoint" in one room.

 

Operations are meant to be group activities, that do take some time to do, thats how its currently setup in MMOs and Bioware is just following the current trend.

Because if it's too long, ppl don't want to do it anymore. WOW is the same, its dungeon is keep getting shorter and shorter, they are keep making NEW content out yet still lose players.

 

Because ppl no longer favor such content anymore, they want quick drop in MOB type of game, the era of raid has gone.

 

And in SWTOR, most of the ops are very very old, which means most of the ppl are already bored of it or some designs are way outdated, so the only reason they run them is for the reward, if it's not worth it then they give it up.

 

Everyone IS experiencing stuff. Its just that some are experiencing getting the reward at the end and some are experiencing wiping on Nahut!

 

MMOs are all about repeatable content, I cant imagine you playing SWG where you had to do stuff over and over again the entire time, like mining! Do you see people complaing that making credits with running heroics over and over again is boring? Or should take shorter? No, people like it the way it is. People are fine with doing the same stuff over and over again as there is an award in the end, which can be used for many other things.

 

People already make the ops shorter by just doing the last bosses of the ops (which the Devs should consider changing) to get the groupfinder reward fast.

No, it's meant to let ppl see the whole thing.

 

Again you are ignoring this game's situation, ppl are NOT fine with it, that's why ppl quit, that's why we got server merge and it doesn't look better than 1 year ago. MMOs are about repeatable content, but only to a certain level. Beyond this level ppl are getting bored of it, doing it only to claim reward quickly or even quit it. THIS is why MMO needs to constantly have new content, and THIS is why SWTOR is keep losing players=lack of new content.

 

As for heroics, many of the heroics were revamped in KotFE to make them quicker and easier to do. Even though you can see ppl prefer quick heroics than long ones.

 

 

You are confusing parts of an MMO here. This way you can say the same about PVP. Its there for everyone to experience, you just que and try it out, get killed and then go to forums saying PVP is too hard, please nerft it? same goes for Eternal Championship, I bet you didnt even try that one. Its there for everyone to experience, so you are saying that should also be done so that its passable for everyone? What point would the "Sprint Champion" achievement then have?

Everyone can experience those content by themselves, ops/raid is different, it requires groups to do it so that's why keep the mainstream doing it is important.

 

 

When was the last time you did Scum and Villany SM? That ops takes much longer than GotM! I am starting to see a pattern here. GotM is the only ops giving 242 gear on SM, which means if you farm gear its better to run this ops on SM rather than the other operations on HM, so I guess that is what you are aiming at, easy and fast gear!

Weeks ago, NO it's not longer than GotM, it got 7 bosses but the overall running is quite quick. Also there are no puzzle/Snipers wasting time.

 

 

Have you considered swaping servers? This has been an issue from day 1, even we swapped to Red Eclipse in the past cause at that time people ran NiMs as pug groups and there was a high chance of being successful at that time! Servers are all located in the same place so you shouldn't experience any connection issues. Swaping server for better raiding is a pretty normal thing to do.

This is Satele Shan, formed by the most popular server Harbinger, and its situation is still bad.

 

We only got 3 servers in US now, THIS is enough to say how bad the situation is.

 

 

Now you are confusing this with the mode which is in the new Flashpoints and is meant to play the story. Yes, in the latest FPS you have 4 modes, Solo, Story, Veteran and Master. With Story being the one, where you get the cutscenes etc, its basically a one-time mission since afterwards you will only have the Solo option. Operations are NOT Flashpoints, keep that in mind!

Operations are let ppl to experience and know as well, it cost a lot of money to develop, if the majority don't bother to play it, it's bad design.

 

 

 

I am surprised you still didnt give up on the game with this attitude. As people told you before this is an MMO, its encouraging people to group up and have fun together. In such a case it doesn't matter if you play and 20 year old game with silly graphics, you just have fun. If you join a pug you it can be frustrating but those are the times, where you have to show your human side and provide assistance. If you know the ops then explain, help the people etc. grouping up encourages people to socialize!

 

It's encouraging ppl, not forcing ppl to, this game's style is already quite old when it came out with strict trinity rule. So when the playerbase has dropped down it becomes a HUGE problem for ppl to form groups.

 

Again I don't have fun for contents I've been running for 30+ times, nor do I want to experience all the troubles of pugs.

 

 

heh 30+ ops that is really nothing mate. What you do need to realize is the fun element in the operations. There are many things you can do differently and for fun.

- There are adds in DF who kill people upon exploding,

- as tank have Grob-thok smash the group nonstop without using the magnet

- pull mines into players on Izax fight

- kill other players on purpose in Rugar hostage situation

- purposely aoe the group with boss damage at several boss encounters

- purposely remove incorrect platforms in Tyrans fight

- pull people into Corruptor Zero beam

- let orbs go into group at Brontes fight

 

and many many more funny things to do for fun in the very very very old ops.

 

It's enough to make ppl bored of one content, THIS is why we are in this situation, you are keep ignoring the terrible situation of this game, that ppl are leaving due to no new content, current content didn't get fixed and the gamestyle was wayy outdated and refuse to see the truth, that's sad.

[Slowpokeking]

If so I have a few ideas to help.

For starter lower the number of adds between each boss, as for the sniper puzzle instead of the sniper knocking you back in SM he merely takes away half or 1/4 of your health, that way people don't have to re-start all over it. And I have no idea how to nerf the other puzzle, perhaps add a greater number of those Iokath things you have to use?

Remove it, simple.

 

 

I really don't think one hour and a half is that long to be honest.

It's very long by the standards of a "good group" with no wipe and break. Many of the pug runs could take up to 3-4 hours.

[FlameYOL]

Remove it, simple.

 

 

 

It's very long by the standards of a "good group" with no wipe and break. Many of the pug runs could take up to 3-4 hours.

 

Then instead of the puzzle fill the room with adds, there's got to be something to do before the boss, just walking there is pointless.

 

I suppose so, I don't think I had a 3 hours run, usually the group breaks up by then.

[FlameYOL]

It still got plot, it's used to let ppl experience what's going on.

 

 

 

Because if it's too long, ppl don't want to do it anymore. WOW is the same, its dungeon is keep getting shorter and shorter, they are keep making NEW content out yet still lose players.

 

Because ppl no longer favor such content anymore, they want quick drop in MOB type of game, the era of raid has gone.

 

And in SWTOR, most of the ops are very very old, which means most of the ppl are already bored of it or some designs are way outdated, so the only reason they run them is for the reward, if it's not worth it then they give it up.

 

 

No, it's meant to let ppl see the whole thing.

 

Again you are ignoring this game's situation, ppl are NOT fine with it, that's why ppl quit, that's why we got server merge and it doesn't look better than 1 year ago. MMOs are about repeatable content, but only to a certain level. Beyond this level ppl are getting bored of it, doing it only to claim reward quickly or even quit it. THIS is why MMO needs to constantly have new content, and THIS is why SWTOR is keep losing players=lack of new content.

 

As for heroics, many of the heroics were revamped in KotFE to make them quicker and easier to do. Even though you can see ppl prefer quick heroics than long ones.

 

 

 

Everyone can experience those content by themselves, ops/raid is different, it requires groups to do it so that's why keep the mainstream doing it is important.

 

 

 

Weeks ago, NO it's not longer than GotM, it got 7 bosses but the overall running is quite quick. Also there are no puzzle/Snipers wasting time.

 

 

 

This is Satele Shan, formed by the most popular server Harbinger, and its situation is still bad.

 

We only got 3 servers in US now, THIS is enough to say how bad the situation is.

 

 

 

Operations are let ppl to experience and know as well, it cost a lot of money to develop, if the majority don't bother to play it, it's bad design.

 

 

 

 

 

It's encouraging ppl, not forcing ppl to, this game's style is already quite old when it came out with strict trinity rule. So when the playerbase has dropped down it becomes a HUGE problem for ppl to form groups.

 

Again I don't have fun for contents I've been running for 30+ times, nor do I want to experience all the troubles of pugs.

 

 

 

 

It's enough to make ppl bored of one content, THIS is why we are in this situation, you are keep ignoring the terrible situation of this game, that ppl are leaving due to no new content, current content didn't get fixed and the gamestyle was wayy outdated and refuse to see the truth, that's sad.

 

If people don't favor the raid style of gameplay then they can go play something like lol or dota 2 or whatever the hell people play these days. Also I doubt the SWTOR community would indeed ask for such content, the devs attempted to do that with Uprisings yet we hadn't had a new one in a 1.5 year and no cries on the forum for it, I don't know how active the uprising queue is as I myself tend to ignore but I don't think SWTOR community wants that style of gameplay, I could be wrong though but who knows, I tend to browse the forums and I barely see any request for that, which is sad because it was enjoyable, I still prefer Flashpoints however but I liked the power-ups it provided.

 

Meh, the ops are old but they can still be fun to do I think you're really conflating your own opinion with facts.

 

If someone isn't willing to learn their class and get through the hassle of finding an ops group or a guild to run it then they don't to experience it, it's that simple, I agree however SWTOR needs more steady releases of content, maybe a new FP every 2 or 3 months and such, but that will never happen EA will not invest that kind of money into the game, what we have is what we'll get. Yeah and there is a point to doing them, heroics are an excellent way to farm credits as well as companion gifts as the alliance crates drop them, as well legacy sets, so there's the incentive of reward there.

 

Jeez now you sound like the "SWTOR is dead crowd" we'll be fine, people always claim the game is dead but it never dies, it will one day but I doubt it'll happen this year.

 

"Operations are let ppl to experience and know as well, it cost a lot of money to develop, if the majority don't bother to play it, it's bad design." The devs already said that they don't develop content based on what the majority is playing, the fact under Keith we had a new GSF map shows that, who knows what kind of dev philosophy they follow but point is Charles was already clear about that.

 

"It's encouraging ppl, not forcing ppl to, this game's style is already quite old when it came out with strict trinity rule. So when the playerbase has dropped down it becomes a HUGE problem for ppl to form groups.

 

Again I don't have fun for contents I've been running for 30+ times, nor do I want to experience all the troubles of pugs."

Then don't do it, if you don't like running old content don't run it or dealing with pugs don't, you're sounding really entitled there.

 

"It's enough to make ppl bored of one content, THIS is why we are in this situation, you are keep ignoring the terrible situation of this game, that ppl are leaving due to no new content, current content didn't get fixed and the gamestyle was wayy outdated and refuse to see the truth, that's sad."

Again you're living in a dream world if you think EA would invest that kind of money into SWTOR, I'd love to have new class story arcs as well as raids and FPs and everything but what we have is what we'll get, we can either have fun with it or we can leave. If the game bores you perhaps look for something else, I take ocasional breaks and it helps keep the interest in the game, come back when the new expansion drops or when a content patch that interests you hit, just as you're not entitled to quick and easy rewards the game isn't entitled to your time and money if you feel like it's being wasted.

[Slowpokeking]

Then instead of the puzzle fill the room with adds, there's got to be something to do before the boss, just walking there is pointless.

 

I suppose so, I don't think I had a 3 hours run, usually the group breaks up by then.

 

No, before the long and tough fight of IZAX, the best thing would be give ppl a break, either give a few easy trash or nothing at all just walking there like EV and TFB.

 

I had one before, and we only wiped twice in the whole run, it's the break/running back took that long.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

If people don't favor the raid style of gameplay then they can go play something like lol or dota 2 or whatever the hell people play these days. Also I doubt the SWTOR community would indeed ask for such content, the devs attempted to do that with Uprisings yet we hadn't had a new one in a 1.5 year and no cries on the forum for it, I don't know how active the uprising queue is as I myself tend to ignore but I don't think SWTOR community wants that style of gameplay, I could be wrong though but who knows, I tend to browse the forums and I barely see any request for that, which is sad because it was enjoyable, I still prefer Flashpoints however but I liked the power-ups it provided.

 

Meh, the ops are old but they can still be fun to do I think you're really conflating your own opinion with facts.

That's what is happening. MoB games are dominating the market and playerbase now, even WOW is losing it.

 

Not really unless they are getting some revamp, otherwise most of the ppl are just gonna quit doing them or just want quick run+reward. I think most of the ops are well designed but running them over and over again for years is very boring.

 

If someone isn't willing to learn their class and get through the hassle of finding an ops group or a guild to run it then they don't to experience it, it's that simple, I agree however SWTOR needs more steady releases of content, maybe a new FP every 2 or 3 months and such, but that will never happen EA will not invest that kind of money into the game, what we have is what we'll get. Yeah and there is a point to doing them, heroics are an excellent way to farm credits as well as companion gifts as the alliance crates drop them, as well legacy sets, so there's the incentive of reward there.

Then those contents will die or have less ppl participate on them, result in everyone having difficulty to find a group, compare to that or quick wipe+disband, I'd rather have a quick easy run to grab the reward.

 

This is why raid is outdated, it requires a certain number of ppl plus strict trinity rule, so if you don't have group to do it you don't get to experience it at all.

 

Heroics also got a major revamp when they were brought up again to make things easier and soloable, which is needed for SWTOR.

 

Jeez now you sound like the "SWTOR is dead crowd" we'll be fine, people always claim the game is dead but it never dies, it will one day but I doubt it'll happen this year.

 

No, this game has been out for 7 years, while it didn't meet the expectation, it did well overall especially since 2015 we got few update. But it really hasn't been doing well for the last 2 years.

 

"Operations are let ppl to experience and know as well, it cost a lot of money to develop, if the majority don't bother to play it, it's bad design." The devs already said that they don't develop content based on what the majority is playing, the fact under Keith we had a new GSF map shows that, who knows what kind of dev philosophy they follow but point is Charles was already clear about that.

 

Then it's BIG misdirection, their resource is already limited, what they provide(more than 1 year to finish 1 ops) is far from enough to attract hardcore players to stay on, the best way would be giving the majority doable and repeatable content along with ok reward, and make current content more relevant to players like they did to the heroics..

 

"It's encouraging ppl, not forcing ppl to, this game's style is already quite old when it came out with strict trinity rule. So when the playerbase has dropped down it becomes a HUGE problem for ppl to form groups.

 

Again I don't have fun for contents I've been running for 30+ times, nor do I want to experience all the troubles of pugs."

Then don't do it, if you don't like running old content don't run it or dealing with pugs don't, you're sounding really entitled there.

 

That's exactly what I'm doing, and that's exactly why this game is losing ppl.

 

Not enough new content.

Part of the new content is not spot on.

Current content isn't revamped to be relevant.

 

 

"It's enough to make ppl bored of one content, THIS is why we are in this situation, you are keep ignoring the terrible situation of this game, that ppl are leaving due to no new content, current content didn't get fixed and the gamestyle was wayy outdated and refuse to see the truth, that's sad."

Again you're living in a dream world if you think EA would invest that kind of money into SWTOR, I'd love to have new class story arcs as well as raids and FPs and everything but what we have is what we'll get, we can either have fun with it or we can leave. If the game bores you perhaps look for something else, I take ocasional breaks and it helps keep the interest in the game, come back when the new expansion drops or when a content patch that interests you hit, just as you're not entitled to quick and easy rewards the game isn't entitled to your time and money if you feel like it's being wasted.

 

No I don't, but I think revamp the current content along with some new content is possible to do, and the main target should be the casuals. This game has fine raid design but it never has been its main sellingpoint, and such content is outdated now. Even the hardcore raiders wouldn't be willing to pay monthly to wait for 1 year to get a complete raid. So the focus should be switched.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Slowpokeking

[KumbayaGOD]

as the original poster of this thread i finally get a pug group in ss and down izax , 2 of our pugs down it before so become the raid lead

 

my conclusion for this operation

1. its too long, the thrash mob , the izax puzzle before the boss is damn too long we finish it around 2 1/2 to 3 hours to clear it ,this is NO WIPE on other boss only the last boss ,since many of us never down it so the raid lead have to give explantion over and over again since there are so many mechanic involved

2. izax boss have very high HP and many of them have mechanic that are insta dead thus making it a very long and painful if wiped

3. we wiped 2x on that boss and get it down the third time with only 1 guy surviving with half health (dang was close)

4. we use discord but many of pug dont have it so we have to wait them to download and then give instruction, so it is not possible without any sort of communication to down this boss.

 

so i think i will call for NERF for this operation especially 2 things

1. reduce the health pool for mobs for faster clearing

2. remove insta dead for SM and change it to damage dealt instead so it is more forgiving but still challenging

 

it is NOT pug friendly at all for SM opeation and i can see now why it is not forming on fleet on regular basis

Edited June 21, 2018 by KumbayaGOD

[merovejec]

as the original poster of this thread i finally get a pug group in ss and down izax , 2 of our pugs down it before so become the raid lead

 

my conclusion for this operation

1. its too long, the thrash mob , the izax puzzle before the boss is damn too long we finish it around 2 1/2 to 3 hours to clear it ,this is NO WIPE on other boss only the last boss ,since many of us never down it so the raid lead have to give explantion over and over again since there are so many mechanic involved

2. izax boss have very high HP and many of them have mechanic that are insta dead thus making it a very long and painful if wiped

3. we wiped 2x on that boss and get it down the third time with only 1 guy surviving with half health (dang was close)

4. we use discord but many of pug dont have it so we have to wait them to download and then give instruction, so it is not possible without any sort of communication to down this boss.

 

so i think i will call for NERF for this operation especially 2 things

1. reduce the health pool for mobs for faster clearing

2. remove insta dead for SM and change it to damage dealt instead so it is more forgiving but still challenging

 

it is NOT pug friendly at all for SM opeation and i can see now why it is not forming on fleet on regular basis

 

The HP is not meant to be actually dpsed down! There are mechanics that damage the boss much more than the group damages him. You also have reduced revive time down to 30 seconds, so you can pretty much keep reviving during the entire encounter! This means that they did try to make it easy for people. Also, this is the FINAL boss so it should be a bit more difficult, same as Brontes, Council, Kephess etc.

[mrphstar]

This isn't 2005 or 2010, ppl want quick content and if it's too long, they don't do it, simple.

 

That's what is happening. MoB games are dominating the market and playerbase now, even WOW is losing it.

 

"Peolple want this...", "people dont want this..."

No mate, YOU want.

You and the OP are the minority of the community, as this thread has shown pretty good.

 

You want swtor to be fast paced and without challenges? Fine, go play a MOBA then. Have fun with their community, though

Let us enjoy the good "old" times where games where challenging and it was about the fun you had with friends while dieing to them over and over again.

 

One simple question: If you are playing a game you dont like, what would be a reasonable approach to change that?

Crying out loud for changes or playing another game instead?

(Not talking about reasonable changes, like balancing classes, fixing bugs, etc., the majority of the community can agree with. Nerfing GotM is not one of them)

I mean, its not like the game was a cake walk from the beginning and got harder over the years and you just want it to be what it was back then.

Its the other way around. Every content from class stories to OPs got nerfed to death already and you still want it to be easier. Thats ridiculous.

Hell, just yesterday I ran a solo FP for conquest points by running from boss to boss, pulling every single mob on my way, just to take a 5min break afk in front of the next boss, while the god droid and the level 50 companion manhandled the horde hunting me. Pulled the boss, went afk again. Came back, boss down, repeat. I literally did nothing to clear the FP. Thats what the state of the game is right now and people like you are the reason.

Edited June 21, 2018 by mrphstar

[CMoray]

I like the idea of making the transition between the bosses more interesting, maybe adding a reward - so they are like bonus objectives / mini bosses - could make it worth to spend more time in this OP.

 

The HP is not meant to be actually dpsed down! There are mechanics that damage the boss much more than the group damages him. You also have reduced revive time down to 30 seconds, so you can pretty much keep reviving during the entire encounter! This means that they did try to make it easy for people. Also, this is the FINAL boss so it should be a bit more difficult, same as Brontes, Council, Kephess etc.

 

They should speed up the third phase (interrupting), it's just boring in VM and SM.

[FlameYOL]

No, before the long and tough fight of IZAX, the best thing would be give ppl a break, either give a few easy trash or nothing at all just walking there like EV and TFB.

 

I had one before, and we only wiped twice in the whole run, it's the break/running back took that long.

 

I disagree, I dislike just walking into the last boss unless it's like EV where there's not a lot of romm to fight adds, Izax's path has a lot of room due to the puzzle so if we take it out we add mobs to defeat.

 

That's what is happening. MoB games are dominating the market and playerbase now, even WOW is losing it.

 

Not really unless they are getting some revamp, otherwise most of the ppl are just gonna quit doing them or just want quick run+reward. I think most of the ops are well designed but running them over and over again for years is very boring.

 

 

Then those contents will die or have less ppl participate on them, result in everyone having difficulty to find a group, compare to that or quick wipe+disband, I'd rather have a quick easy run to grab the reward.

 

This is why raid is outdated, it requires a certain number of ppl plus strict trinity rule, so if you don't have group to do it you don't get to experience it at all.

 

Heroics also got a major revamp when they were brought up again to make things easier and soloable, which is needed for SWTOR.

 

 

 

No, this game has been out for 7 years, while it didn't meet the expectation, it did well overall especially since 2015 we got few update. But it really hasn't been doing well for the last 2 years.

 

 

 

Then it's BIG misdirection, their resource is already limited, what they provide(more than 1 year to finish 1 ops) is far from enough to attract hardcore players to stay on, the best way would be giving the majority doable and repeatable content along with ok reward, and make current content more relevant to players like they did to the heroics..

 

 

 

That's exactly what I'm doing, and that's exactly why this game is losing ppl.

 

Not enough new content.

Part of the new content is not spot on.

Current content isn't revamped to be relevant.

 

 

 

 

No I don't, but I think revamp the current content along with some new content is possible to do, and the main target should be the casuals. This game has fine raid design but it never has been its main sellingpoint, and such content is outdated now. Even the hardcore raiders wouldn't be willing to pay monthly to wait for 1 year to get a complete raid. So the focus should be switched.

I know the mob games are taking over but the hype will eventually die down and be replaced by something else, just like MMOs, if I had to guess battle royale is the next cash mine but I could be wrong, again though I don't think we ought to mix that kind of gameplay with SWTOR, as I said earlier Uprisings might've been fun but how popular is it? Is it worth re-inventing the wheel at the risk of losing your loyal playerbase that still hasn't left?

 

Then so be it, if people aren't willing to go through the hassle then they don't deserve a reward, I don't need the devs to hold my hand and if I find a group and we don't finish it so be it, that's life, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. So what is your suggestion? Make it so healers or tanks aren't needed? The trinity is there and should stay there re-inventing that kind of gameplay would only alienate the community. Heroics got a revamp yes, but that was the devs trying to make old content relevant while also giving a reward for it, the solo friendly isn't over exactly, you can still get the FPs in solo mode, however the game is focusing more on multiple facets than in Ben's time as well.

 

Meh, I heard the same thing for years "Game isn't doing well" "We're losing players" again I do think the game will one day end but I don't think it's it'll be this year.

 

That isn't bad, again the lack of content is but I do prefer Keith's design of multiple aspects of the game over Ben "let's focus on story and ignore multiplayer for 2 years".

 

Guess it'll keep happening then, I can see the devs nerfing it but I doubt it'll be any time soon, GOTM was designed to be harder than the average SM (Even though I'd say it's close to pre nerf DP), Matt the lead designer did said a new raid might be more straightforward next time so there's that for you to possibly look forward to.

 

Revamps are always possible but they'll likely come in the form of an expansion if they do anything about it, if they find a way to make old content relevant kudos.

 

as the original poster of this thread i finally get a pug group in ss and down izax , 2 of our pugs down it before so become the raid lead

 

my conclusion for this operation

1. its too long, the thrash mob , the izax puzzle before the boss is damn too long we finish it around 2 1/2 to 3 hours to clear it ,this is NO WIPE on other boss only the last boss ,since many of us never down it so the raid lead have to give explantion over and over again since there are so many mechanic involved

2. izax boss have very high HP and many of them have mechanic that are insta dead thus making it a very long and painful if wiped

3. we wiped 2x on that boss and get it down the third time with only 1 guy surviving with half health (dang was close)

4. we use discord but many of pug dont have it so we have to wait them to download and then give instruction, so it is not possible without any sort of communication to down this boss.

 

so i think i will call for NERF for this operation especially 2 things

1. reduce the health pool for mobs for faster clearing

2. remove insta dead for SM and change it to damage dealt instead so it is more forgiving but still challenging

 

it is NOT pug friendly at all for SM opeation and i can see now why it is not forming on fleet on regular basis

 

Reducing health pool is something I could get behind for SM, also keep in mind Izax lowers the cooldown of revive to 30 seconds, so tell your healers to use it more often.

[Slowpokeking]

"Peolple want this...", "people dont want this..."

No mate, YOU want.

You and the OP are the minority of the community, as this thread has shown pretty good.

 

You want swtor to be fast paced and without challenges? Fine, go play a MOBA then. Have fun with their community, though

Let us enjoy the good "old" times where games where challenging and it was about the fun you had with friends while dieing to them over and over again.

 

One simple question: If you are playing a game you dont like, what would be a reasonable approach to change that?

Crying out loud for changes or playing another game instead?

(Not talking about reasonable changes, like balancing classes, fixing bugs, etc., the majority of the community can agree with. Nerfing GotM is not one of them)

I mean, its not like the game was a cake walk from the beginning and got harder over the years and you just want it to be what it was back then.

Its the other way around. Every content from class stories to OPs got nerfed to death already and you still want it to be easier. Thats ridiculous.

Hell, just yesterday I ran a solo FP for conquest points by running from boss to boss, pulling every single mob on my way, just to take a 5min break afk in front of the next boss, while the god droid and the level 50 companion manhandled the horde hunting me. Pulled the boss, went afk again. Came back, boss down, repeat. I literally did nothing to clear the FP. Thats what the state of the game is right now and people like you are the reason.

It's not me, it's the whole playerbase, the player number and the server merge wasn't caused by me.

 

I like this game for many things like its IP, story, character and the SH system, but I hope it could change to fit modern playerbase better. Especially since its new content is far from enough to attract real raiders.

[Slowpokeking]

I disagree, I dislike just walking into the last boss unless it's like EV where there's not a lot of romm to fight adds, Izax's path has a lot of room due to the puzzle so if we take it out we add mobs to defeat.

 

TFB is the same, most of the ops give you a "break" before the final boss by providing some easy trash mobs or no mob at all because ppl need such break to refocus. Especially since IZAX has a very long fight.

 

I know the mob games are taking over but the hype will eventually die down and be replaced by something else, just like MMOs, if I had to guess battle royale is the next cash mine but I could be wrong, again though I don't think we ought to mix that kind of gameplay with SWTOR, as I said earlier Uprisings might've been fun but how popular is it? Is it worth re-inventing the wheel at the risk of losing your loyal playerbase that still hasn't left?

 

We don't need to make SWTOR MoB, but we need to make SWTOR more suitable to modern playerbase. Uprisings are ok, ppl are doing them. It just need improvement.

 

Again, SWTOR's loyal playerbase has always been SW fans and the story fans. Raid is never its main selling point. Hardcore raiders would have left after years without any new raid content. Most of the raiders I know have left or took a long break.

 

Then so be it, if people aren't willing to go through the hassle then they don't deserve a reward, I don't need the devs to hold my hand and if I find a group and we don't finish it so be it, that's life, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. So what is your suggestion? Make it so healers or tanks aren't needed? The trinity is there and should stay there re-inventing that kind of gameplay would only alienate the community. Heroics got a revamp yes, but that was the devs trying to make old content relevant while also giving a reward for it, the solo friendly isn't over exactly, you can still get the FPs in solo mode, however the game is focusing more on multiple facets than in Ben's time as well.

 

Then it means the content has been wasted=player drop. Especially raid took long to form, if it has a high chance of failure then ppl don't do them.

 

The game has been there already, they need to make it easier to form groups with less ppl required.

 

 

Meh, I heard the same thing for years "Game isn't doing well" "We're losing players" again I do think the game will one day end but I don't think it's it'll be this year.

 

I don't think either, but it certainly isn't going to a good direction, it could be improved and get more players back.

 

 

That isn't bad, again the lack of content is but I do prefer Keith's design of multiple aspects of the game over Ben "let's focus on story and ignore multiplayer for 2 years".

 

Ben's problem is that he didn't make repeatable content, SF has been terrible, and he did a very bad move by blosting all the ops to top level, THIS actually damaged both sides, raiders don't find these old content fun and casuals were blocked by it once again.

 

Both directions are bad, we need group content, but not too many big large raid ones, especially since they took 1 year to finish it. That is not gonna attract raiders.

 

Guess it'll keep happening then, I can see the devs nerfing it but I doubt it'll be any time soon, GOTM was designed to be harder than the average SM (Even though I'd say it's close to pre nerf DP), Matt the lead designer did said a new raid might be more straightforward next time so there's that for you to possibly look forward to.

Again the main problem is not its difficulty, but the length.

 

Revamps are always possible but they'll likely come in the form of an expansion if they do anything about it, if they find a way to make old content relevant kudos.

 

It's really needed, even the SH has so many bugs.

[FlameYOL]

It's not me, it's the whole playerbase, the player number and the server merge wasn't caused by me.

 

I like this game for many things like its IP, story, character and the SH system, but I hope it could change to fit modern playerbase better. Especially since its new content is far from enough to attract real raiders.

 

Well the modern playerbase... you keep saying that word but do DOTA 2 and LOL players will suddenly start playing SWTOR if they go that route? I think you're risking alienating the playerbase if anything at all.

 

TFB is the same, most of the ops give you a "break" before the final boss by providing some easy trash mobs or no mob at all because ppl need such break to refocus. Especially since IZAX has a very long fight.

 

 

 

We don't need to make SWTOR MoB, but we need to make SWTOR more suitable to modern playerbase. Uprisings are ok, ppl are doing them. It just need improvement.

 

Again, SWTOR's loyal playerbase has always been SW fans and the story fans. Raid is never its main selling point. Hardcore raiders would have left after years without any new raid content. Most of the raiders I know have left or took a long break.

 

 

 

Then it means the content has been wasted=player drop. Especially raid took long to form, if it has a high chance of failure then ppl don't do them.

 

The game has been there already, they need to make it easier to form groups with less ppl required.

 

 

 

 

I don't think either, but it certainly isn't going to a good direction, it could be improved and get more players back.

 

 

 

 

Ben's problem is that he didn't make repeatable content, SF has been terrible, and he did a very bad move by blosting all the ops to top level, THIS actually damaged both sides, raiders don't find these old content fun and casuals were blocked by it once again.

 

Both directions are bad, we need group content, but not too many big large raid ones, especially since they took 1 year to finish it. That is not gonna attract raiders.

 

 

Again the main problem is not its difficulty, but the length.

 

 

 

It's really needed, even the SH has so many bugs.

 

Fine, but there's got to some adds there, I know there's a few groups but the real meat of that area is the puzzle so maybe add 1 or 2 more groups, they don't need to insta-kill you.

 

No we don't, we'll risk alienating the potential MMO playerbase and the few players SWTOR still has, you want a MOB style game go play one. People re-inventing the wheel in this game always drives off the players, take galactic command for instance. True enough, but Keith is still focusing on multiplayer content and that includes raiding.

 

No they don't, raids are fine as they are let's not re-invent the wheel so we can alienate the playerbase further.

 

And how would we improve? Again I think what we have is what we're gonna get for the rest of this game's life.

 

I found scaling all the ops to level 70 a great idea, it made it so I'd still get rewards for doing EV or KP with new players who are still learning.

 

Again I think reducing the numbers of mobs then is fine, I'd keep the mechanic on Sniper or maybe nerf to that 1/4 damage, puzzle IDK maybe take it out but add mobs on SM.

 

Yeah, Jindo Krey or whatever hell the mando guy from false emperor is has been bugged for years, I'm all for bug-fixes.

[Slowpokeking]

Well the modern playerbase... you keep saying that word but do DOTA 2 and LOL players will suddenly start playing SWTOR if they go that route? I think you're risking alienating the playerbase if anything at all.

No, but ppl would join/return if there are enjoyable new content which fit their taste.

 

And I'm not risking the playerbase at all, this game is famous for its IP, story, voiceover and fine PVE content, it has never been the top choice of raiders, and most of the raiders have already left due to no new content.

 

Fine, but there's got to some adds there, I know there's a few groups but the real meat of that area is the puzzle so maybe add 1 or 2 more groups, they don't need to insta-kill you.

 

Remove the puzzle, that's all.

 

No we don't, we'll risk alienating the potential MMO playerbase and the few players SWTOR still has, you want a MOB style game go play one. People re-inventing the wheel in this game always drives off the players, take galactic command for instance. True enough, but Keith is still focusing on multiplayer content and that includes raiding.

The MMO playerbase has been shifted for long. Most of the raiders have already gone, if I'm a raider I woudln't come to play this game and there is no way I'm gonna stay in this game after years with so few new content.

 

 

No they don't, raids are fine as they are let's not re-invent the wheel so we can alienate the playerbase further.

 

They are obviously outdated. In a MMO, 1 year is old for raid content and even Ravagers and TOS has been out for 3 and half years, that's ancient. The intended playerbase have all left.

 

And how would we improve? Again I think what we have is what we're gonna get for the rest of this game's life.

 

Make short, repeatable content with story, and encourage ppl but not force them to group up.

 

I found scaling all the ops to level 70 a great idea, it made it so I'd still get rewards for doing EV or KP with new players who are still learning.

It's quite bad because ppl are bored with them, they only do them for reward.

 

Again I think reducing the numbers of mobs then is fine, I'd keep the mechanic on Sniper or maybe nerf to that 1/4 damage, puzzle IDK maybe take it out but add mobs on SM.

NO NO NO, in a ops with 5 bosses, the last thing to do is make these mechanics to trouble ppl.

[Slowpokeking]

I've been playing since the beginning of 2012, I kept on because the Star Wars IP, the story, the character and the SH system. If I want to focus on raid there are tons of other games. And there is no way I would have stayed after 3.0, where very few new content were made. Nearly all the raiders I knew were gone.

 

SWTOR's raid content is good, but not "outstanding". Raid and ops has never been a major selling point of SWTOR, and post 3.0 era couldn't keep any raider with basic sense. Even raid itself is not as popular as it was in the 00s. It actually was a reason why SWTOR went F2P so soon, and we got nearly 7 years passed.

 

I'm not opposed to making new raid content, but it should never be the main focus when the resource is limited, and it's pointless to keep "raider's pride" by blocking the content from casual players when the raider base itself is pretty much gone. It serves no purpose.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Slowpokeking