Planned Warzone Changes Part 2

[TheRandomno]

Oh pvp cheevos.

 

Yeah I know how those are done, you literally rig the match with some friends on the other side however many times it takes.

 

I never bothered to do it myself but it's no big secret how it's done.

 

Well I did say ""secret"" myself. Though queueing with some friends sounds like it would affect some unknowing players.

 

BTW Rafi, have you checked SMW's achievement master?

[TrixxieTriss]

Just finally getting caught up on the past couple of days. First of all, most of the changes, communication, and consideration of feedback have been great!!

 

But I do have one concern about raising the huttball winning score to 10 (and maybe others raised this earlier in the thread). It seems this will actually extend the length of matches in most cases. In most situations where this presents, the score 6 points has been a "mercy" rule that helps matches end quickly that are clearly lopsided. I've enjoyed this from both sides of such scenarios as a way to get that WZ overwith and move on.

 

Even with shorter matches (thanks!) and with better matchmaking (super thanks!), I still feel that this change here will extend matches that should just end, longer than they need to be - in most cases where the result is lopsided. And if it's competitive, a race to 6 points can create quite an exhilarating match!

 

That said, this is pretty minor overall, and not something I have super strong feelings about (especially in light of shortening matches to 10 min). But I want to make sure to flag it, and give others a chance to weigh in too...

 

I agree, I think raising it to 10 is too much, especially if it’s a lop sided team.

 

I already see matches that are lopsided because one team won’t play the objectives. They aren’t bad at combat, they just won’t play the objective to win.

 

So what happens is my team gets to about 4-5 nil and then stops trying to score. They just switch to death match too and stretch the game to maximum length instead of finishing it. This really sucks because I just want to win and requeue for another match. You don’t get extra CXP points and rewards for stretching out the match.

 

At least with it only being 6 goals to win, I can usually force the last 1 or 2 goals to finish the match faster to the disdain of my team who has switch to farming kills, otherwise we would have had s match go the full length and it’s a waste of time because it’s already a forgone conclusion.

 

If we have 10 goals to win, it will be much harder to finish out those matches when you have time wasters.

 

A compromise might be 8 goals.

Edited June 12, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Rafiknoll]

Well I did say ""secret"" myself. Though queueing with some friends sounds like it would affect some unknowing players.

 

If THAT is the secret technique then it DID hurt others.

 

BTW Rafi, have you checked SMW's achievement master?

 

And I don't mind one bit if the achievements get "nerfed" requirements and HE feels it was a waste of time either. I am not asking a retroactive ban for everyone who has it. I am just asking to alter it so future farmers will not need to choose between proper team behavior and achievement farming, and I truly don't care if those who sadly chose achievements in the past will feel it was for naught (and it actually still won't be, because they will have the ach already on 100% and we can barely start progressing, whenever they are people I posted evidence of some of their misdeeds to ban them or my friendly guild members.

 

Why? I don't have the PvP ones myself, I just know how multiple people who got them did it.

 

I would never accuse anyone of social misbehaving without proof or past experience with their character. I never said you did so. What I meant to say is, your sig gives the impression that you are among those who care about achievements even if you didn't farm them yourself and thus when you speak in favor of farmers your bare word without any details is not enough for me to change my mind and believe they didn't harm other players.

[merovejec]

If THAT is the secret technique then it DID hurt others.

 

The technique doesn't hurt others, so you probably don't know what he is talking about.

 

And I don't mind one bit if the achievements get "nerfed" requirements and HE feels it was a waste of time either. I am not asking a retroactive ban for everyone who has it. I am just asking to alter it so future farmers will not need to choose between proper team behavior and achievement farming, and I truly don't care if those who sadly chose achievements in the past will feel it was for naught (and it actually still won't be, because they will have the ach already on 100% and we can barely start progressing, whenever they are people I posted evidence of some of their misdeeds to ban them or my friendly guild members.

 

OK, I do agree with you that PVP achievements are a different category. It was already stated that we have 2 kinds of achievos, where PVP are the 3rd kind. 1st you have stuff you get automatically by playing the game (chapter achievos, heroics etc) this also includes operations cause you just get them by playing the ops once and its done, then you have stuff you have to grind and find thats all rest. For the second you need to put real effort in like getting datacrons, lore objects or digging out 100 treasures. They just require a grind and will be gotten by normal game play, like valor 100. Lastly we have PVP, I suppose those were meant to be the same as the 2nd type of achievos, yet it is not so for some warzones. Also, I agree that you cannot get them by "not ruining the game for others" since as soon as you start gathering solo kills by waiting in stealth near the enemy spawn, you already do something else than what the wz is meant for.

 

This is a very difficult discussion since it depends on what does "ruin the game for others mean". Getting 55 kills is not hard, mainly as healer since you make sure your ppl dont die and the enemies killed by the people you heal count as your kills. You are also getting the healing achievo. So technically the only hard thing are the killing blows and solo kills WHICH you can do at the same time, cause if you solo enemies you also deliver the killing blow. SO... the question is, whether waiting at spawn in stealth to kill 10 people is ruining the game for others since you keep 1 enemy also busy.... Then you just get 10 more killing blows and 49 more times....

[Rafiknoll]

The technique doesn't hurt others, so you probably don't know what he is talking about.

 

Again, nice details. I assume that for people who never met you, you would say the same about your old "technique" for farming GSF achievements? "You don't know what I am doing, I don't ruin games"

 

 

This is a very difficult discussion since it depends on what does "ruin the game for others mean". Getting 55 kills is not hard, mainly as healer since you make sure your ppl dont die and the enemies killed by the people you heal count as your kills. You are also getting the healing achievo. So technically the only hard thing are the killing blows and solo kills WHICH you can do at the same time, cause if you solo enemies you also deliver the killing blow. SO... the question is, whether waiting at spawn in stealth to kill 10 people is ruining the game for others since you keep 1 enemy also busy.... Then you just get 10 more killing blows and 49 more times...

 

I don't believe that even a tenth of the players who have the solo kills achievements did it by stealthing on spawn. It takes a very bad enemy team to spawn one by one and be killed in solo so fast that the soloer doesn't get overwhelmed and has to escape or die, and you would need 10 full solo kills before the match is over. How do you do it in huttball, or voidstart? The spawning points are not secluded enough to get 10 soloes undisturbed unless you have implemented some friends or are multiboxing on the other team to run into a corner and do the solo kills there. I agree that technically it sounds possible (and that also is only in a few warzones) just as much as technically you can complete the GSF achievement of 100 times 65% accuracy with rapid fire (I managed it twice), but the number of people who got this achievement and the amount of time it took them to get it doesn't make sense if they played as legit as you are suggesting...

[merovejec]

I don't believe

 

And that is why you fail

[Lundorff]

I don't believe that even a tenth of the players who have the solo kills achievements did it by stealthing on spawn. It takes a very bad enemy team to spawn one by one and be killed in solo so fast that the soloer doesn't get overwhelmed and has to escape or die, and you would need 10 full solo kills before the match is over. How do you do it in huttball, or voidstart? The spawning points are not secluded enough to get 10 soloes undisturbed unless you have implemented some friends or are multiboxing on the other team to run into a corner and do the solo kills there. I agree that technically it sounds possible (and that also is only in a few warzones) just as much as technically you can complete the GSF achievement of 100 times 65% accuracy with rapid fire (I managed it twice), but the number of people who got this achievement and the amount of time it took them to get it doesn't make sense if they played as legit as you are suggesting...

 

The 10 solo kills achievement can not be completed legitimately. It would specifically take longer time to complete than the game has been active due to the random factor. I guarantee that 100% of those who have that achievement has killed their friends or their alt over and over. (I once spend 2 months in lowbies on a oper in pursuit of this. I can not be done and it has nothing to do with skill.)

[Rafiknoll]

And that is why you fail

 

While I can appreciate a star wars reference, stop avoiding it.

[Elusive_Thing]

The 10 solo kills achievement can not be completed legitimately. It would specifically take longer time to complete than the game has been active due to the random factor. I guarantee that 100% of those who have that achievement has killed their friends or their alt over and over. (I once spend 2 months in lowbies on a oper in pursuit of this. I can not be done and it has nothing to do with skill.)

Conclusive evidence if I ever saw any.

[merovejec]

While I can appreciate a star wars reference, stop avoiding it.

 

You can ask the recent poster here: 95% PVP

[Gingishan]

Sure, as long as you're happy with them putting all other movement buffs for other classes on a similar 1 minute or more cooldown (Force Charge, Force Speed etc) and removing similar immunity triggering abilities from other classes

 

U can not put leap in pair with roll (scamper, whatever is called), because leap was a talent since day 1, roll apeared after. Also, what u do with holotraverse. Because while a jug will leap, to say, once in a minute, oper will roll twice in a minute and use holotraverse also, so is a 3v1 benefits that get favor to oper. Roll do no concern me but the dodge it pop, that should be absolutly removed. So when oper roll we can leap on him without trigering any bugs like dysnc or leap under map. Leap also ne ASAP to root the target.

[Gingishan]

Jesus what is wrong with you people 40 pages of crying about a REGS MAP like oh my god

 

That mean there is a disturbance in the Force. PVP comunity awakens.

[Gingishan]

Has this really devolved into a omg concealment opers are too good at huttball so #nerfoperatives thread?

 

There must be another pvp KING. Enough is enough!

[Elusive_Thing]

U can not put leap in pair with roll (scamper, whatever is called), because leap was a talent since day 1, roll apeared after. Also, what u do with holotraverse. Because while a jug will leap, to say, once in a minute, oper will roll twice in a minute and use holotraverse also, so is a 3v1 benefits that get favor to oper. Roll do no concern me but the dodge it pop, that should be absolutly removed. So when oper roll we can leap on him without trigering any bugs like dysnc or leap under map. Leap also ne ASAP to root the target.

What does it matter when the ability was introduced? The roll immunity is absolutely integral for Concealment. Without that the class wouldn't even be viable for regs, much less ranked. It is already a midtier spec, but removing the immunity would relegate the whole spec to doing Heroics.

[OneHit]

U can not put leap in pair with roll (scamper, whatever is called), because leap was a talent since day 1, roll apeared after. Also, what u do with holotraverse. Because while a jug will leap, to say, once in a minute, oper will roll twice in a minute and use holotraverse also, so is a 3v1 benefits that get favor to oper. Roll do no concern me but the dodge it pop, that should be absolutly removed. So when oper roll we can leap on him without trigering any bugs like dysnc or leap under map. Leap also ne ASAP to root the target.

 

You're leaving out the two other movement abilities jugs have

[Rafiknoll]

You can ask the recent poster here: 95% PVP

 

You are one of those posters and I asked you. None other has objected to changing the PVP achievements. Still evasive...

[Mournblood]

Dear Eric Musco. I am not sure if this will be read however I have enjoyed SWTOR for many years now. Sadly I did some research into WoW. I first understand that Blizzard is very much willing to pour money into their game unlike EA. I have sat down with myself and thought where did SWTOR go wrong? Well I think there is two ways the game can go outside of just shut down mode. Games like Guild Wars 2 and ESO have become Buy to Play with no sub. Games like FF Realm Reborn and WoW are sub based games. However sub based games have legit expansions and steady content rolling out. Sadly for whatever reason that has not been the case for Bioware and SWTOR. So after doing simple math WoW was able to release 7.5 swtor five boss raids over the course of two years time so yeah I think that warrants a sub. So I implore whomever is guiding SWTOR to really reconsider the game model as I have finally accepted the state of the game is no longer worth the 15 dollar sub per month since the return value is one new raid in two years and many other raids that are several years old now. I will miss the people I raid with and the SWTOR vibe but raids are what I want and its the achievement of killing new things.... It has been a pleasure and I wish you all the best.... Kytera

 

You made a post about cancelling your sub over lack of PvE content in a thread about WZ changes? Really?? Do you even realize or care how long it's been since Bioware gave this amount of development focus to PvP? If that's the extent of your common sense, no wonder you're dissatisfied with the game.

[OasisKid]

First off, I am personally thrilled Bioware is actually making changes to PVP. However have you ever stopped to ask yourself why everything will now be cross faction? Did people forget about PVP having lore?

 

You made a post about cancelling your sub over lack of PvE content in a thread about WZ changes? Really?? Do you even realize or care how long it's been since Bioware gave this amount of development focus to PvP? If that's the extent of your common sense, no wonder you're dissatisfied with the game.

[Rafiknoll]

First off, I am personally thrilled Bioware is actually making changes to PVP. However have you ever stopped to ask yourself why everything will now be cross faction? Did people forget about PVP having lore?

 

No one "forgot", people asked for it and got what they asked for. Without cross-faction matchmaking would be impossible. In many, many PVP games, there is no lore at all, and even where there is lore, there are no "factions". In SWTBF for example, you switch "faction" every match and it is not your choice. Why? Because if they would let people pick empire or republic than eventually, one side will accumulate the better players or premades and the other side will be stranded, resulting in no matches at all or the implementation of "training exercises" such as the ones happening too often in SWTOR in certain hours where the reps barely queue. Cross-faction was a thought through and is good in total. Not a really good example of "devs neglect".

[Mournblood]

However have you ever stopped to ask yourself why everything will now be cross faction? Did people forget about PVP having lore?

 

I'm well aware of the reasons behind it, and had you read through the proposed changes, you'd probably already know the answer to this. But in case you missed it, cross-faction is necessary to support the new matchmaking system, which in turn is needed to create some equilibrium in WZs. It also prevents faction bias by players. If you had played other MMOs like RIFTS or Warhammer Online, you'd know that players will gravitate toward the faction that is strongest in PvP. Eventually, one faction dominates the other to the point of killing any PvP activity and the player base begins to evaporate.

 

As for the lore, nothing in this game is considered canon by Disney, so it's not as if we're violating some sacrosanct precept of the SW franchise. If your objections are immersion based, not only were there two other threads dedicated to that in the General forum, but you're also unfortunately in the minority and Bioware needs to make game improvements that benefit the greatest majority of the player base. There has not been any significant WZ improvements in this game in YEARS, and as there is a substantial number of players in this game who PvP, the development focus was both justified and overdue.

 

If you're quitting the game over cross-faction PvP which will facilitate a more fair and fun WZ experience for everyone, I'd say that's a YOU problem, not a Bioware problem.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Mournblood

[The_X]

Oh. Cool. You've ruined Huttball. Pretty much the only reason I play the game, soooooo.....

[merovejec]

Oh. Cool. You've ruined Huttball. Pretty much the only reason I play the game, soooooo.....

 

Thats what the 48 pages of text are, to tell them how to do it right!

[Banderal]

Thats what the 48 pages of text are, to tell them how to do it right!

 

Does anyone else remember the Simpsons episode where they let Homer, as the "typical consumer", design a car? Somehow this thread brought that to mind.

[merovejec]

Does anyone else remember the Simpsons episode where they let Homer, as the "typical consumer", design a car? Somehow this thread brought that to mind.

 

That was surely different I mean the people here had (mostly) reasonable comments. To put it simply:

 

1. Everyone liked the Arena changes

2. Most people didnt like the "Hinder" idea so Eric said they will rethink it

3. Everyone like the points/medals idea (i still dont understand that bud ok)

4. There was a discussion about the stun "cant catch ball" thing but overall people didnt bother much with it.

[Lhancelot]

Eric, can we get a new thread with proposed PVP changes, I think you wrote throughout this thread and mentioned stuff/clarified stuff/changed stuff and rather not try to filter all 40+ pages of the debating while trying to find what you wrote.