Why did BW not make the early chapter companions same-sex romanceable?

[Keta]

I had a lengthy discussion with a player I met in the game recently who explained how sad she was because all the early chapter companions cannot be same-sex romanced.

 

She told me how much she did enjoy Lana Beniko's story though, and that the romance really left her feeling quite moved. I was impressed that the story in the game, a later story to be exact could have that effect on someone. In actuality it makes me want to play through KOTFE and KOTET just to see if the story really is that good.

 

Anyway, my point is, I agree they dropped the ball when they first developed the game without including same-sex romances for all of the original companions.

 

I am curious, did they ever say why they did not?

 

I mean it seems no one cares if same-sex romances occur as they won't affect the individual because you can make choices what route the characters take with you so you can avoid any romance if that's not what you want.

 

Same sex romance was requested throughout beta by many beta testers. As I recall what it boiled down to was the desire to sell SW:TOR in a variety of countries outside the USA a few of which had or still have rather strict rules about such things.

 

Fast forward all these years and failure to add it in to the "vanilla" game is most likely due to resources (or the lack thereof), priorities laying elsewhere, perhaps a reluctance to dabble in the original code and inertia. Or any combination thereof.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Keta

[BRKMSN]

I should be able to state to any gaming company about the population of its players it's not addressing by some aspect of the game they'd enjoy, and not have to worry about the likes of you working to invalidate that effort.

 

And, anytime any one says something like 'well this country was just fine before those so-and-so's showed up" pretty much tells everyone in hearing distance that they'd prefer those so-and-so's not to be there. Can you see that? That's how that earlier post of yours reads.

Actually, I fully expected to see my response twisted hostilely. But you have to remember that just because you suggest an idea doesn't mean someone else can't suggest the opposite or be opposed to your suggestion. I have nothing against you (I asked your age to see if you were around since the conception of Star Wars, that is all). You may be a great person and the only thing preventing you from being my friend would be your own decision not to. You may not like my views, and I respect that. I have no interest in SSR stories, but I think we share an interest in Star Wars and this game.

Edited April 29, 2018 by BRKMSN

[xordevoreaux]

Actually, I fully expected to see my response twisted hostilely. But you have to remember that just because you suggest an idea doesn't mean someone else can't suggest the opposite or be opposed to your suggestion. I have nothing against you (I asked your age to see if you were around since the conception of Star Wars, that is all). You may be a great person and the only thing preventing you from being my friend would be your own decision not to. You may not like my views, and I respect that. I have no interest in SSR stories, but I think we share an interest in Star Wars and this game.

 

You've yet to mention why you raised the point in the first place of this:

Before Disney purchased it, there weren't any homosexual characters in movies, novels, games, etc... and the brand did very well.

 

It's like saying "well we didn't have gay marriage in the 60's" etc. etc. etc. and marriage was just fine the way it was."

Zero difference.

 

And perhaps we can be friends, but our difference on this issue is sure to stand.

[BRKMSN]

You've yet to mention why you raised the point in the first place of this:

 

 

It's like saying "well we didn't have gay marriage in the 60's" etc. etc. etc. and marriage was just fine the way it was."

Zero difference.

 

And perhaps we can be friends, but our difference on this issue is sure to stand.

 

The point was there. My point is that some things could have been added, but weren't, and the franchise still succeeded better than most. People usually refer to: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[Seireeni]

Personally, I think the romance "portion" of this game is pointless and silly. I don't feel that the addition of "flirt" options makes the game more appealing to more people. I don't think that's what people "buying" the game are hoping to get from it.

 

I can't help but look at the Star Wars franchise' history. Before Disney purchased it, there weren't any homosexual characters in movies, novels, games, etc... and the brand did very well. There also wasn't any strong language, sex scenes or graphic violence (but we aren't really talking about those). They clearly felt their story / concept was a strong enough draw to the consumer that they didn't have to "go there" on certain topics or concepts.

 

People can agree or disagree with their decisions.

 

I have always enjoyed watching football and have always enjoyed Star Wars since I was a kid. That doesn't mean I feel like they need to combine both to cater to my interests. Both appeal to me on their own.

 

Actually, Juhani can have feelings for the PC in KotOR, and RotHC added gay romances to this game -- both which were before Disney bought the franchise, I believe. Disney didn't create this. I believe it's simply the franchise moving to cater to a more modern audience. More and more people just don't care if there's gay people or not, and loads of people are happy when LGBT characters are present. It often makes sense business wise to include them.

 

In addition, while Star Wars fans might be looking for certain things in Star Wars games, Bioware fans are also looking for certain things in Bioware games. One of those things is romance -- you'd be surprised how many Bioware fans absolutely love them -- and SSR, as Bioware often does offer options to gay people, too. Just look at the companion love threads. Do you seriously think those people aren't "buying" the game at least partly because of the romances?

[BlastBoomArt]

The point was there. My point is that some things could have been added, but weren't, and the franchise still succeeded better than most. People usually refer to: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

By that logic, we shouldn't do anything new ever. Guess we'll just re-release the OT to theatres every December and be content with that.

[BRKMSN]

By that logic, we shouldn't do anything new ever. Guess we'll just re-release the OT to theatres every December and be content with that.

 

So do you think we should add strong language, sex scenes and graphic violence into future movies to change things up a bit? Maybe try to bring in some of the Quentin Tarantino fans?

[BlastBoomArt]

So do you think we should add strong language, sex scenes and graphic violence into future movies to change things up a bit? Maybe try to bring in some of the Quentin Tarantino fans?

 

And here we go equating homosexuality to R-rated material. Should we take out all romance out of Star Wars period? Cuz there is no difference between two straight people kissing and two gay people kissing, except for the gender of the consenting parties.

-

[BRKMSN]

And here we go equating homosexuality to R-rated material. Should we take out all romance out of Star Wars period? Cuz there is no difference between two straight people kissing and two gay people kissing, except for the gender of the consenting parties.

-

While I didn't equate it, the same logic applies to my question. Culture and society define moral values and whether you like it or not, homosexuality is a topic of discussion on that front ... which clearly is a reason why a story writer might decide to use or not use something in their story. I'm not assigning a point value to anything. I'm also not the one asking for them to change a story aspect already in the game.

[cyrusramsey]

Actually, Juhani can have feelings for the PC in KotOR, and RotHC added gay romances to this game -- both which were before Disney bought the franchise, I believe.

 

I'm not sure how they missed Juhani (perhaps for a singleplayer game they were paying less close attention, or perhaps it was sufficiently hidden), but RotHC was released half a year after Disney bought Star Wars. That seems like plenty of time to me to add in those tiny snippets if they were already inclined to, but leashed by LA.

 

That timing had always felt like supporting evidence to me.

[RACATW]

Star wars is so much worse off without George Lucas. I never really appreciated the guy until we got the new films.

[BlastBoomArt]

While I didn't equate it, the same logic applies to my question. Culture and society define moral values and whether you like it or not, homosexuality is a topic of discussion on that front ... which clearly is a reason why a story writer might decide to use or not use something in their story. I'm not assigning a point value to anything. I'm also not the one asking for them to change a story aspect already in the game.

 

I honestly don't care about whether every other creator out there has lgbt+ themes in their story or not. Not everyone is comfortable writing outside their own experiences, I get that. That is 100% a-ok and creative freedom is important to me. But as we've already seen, not just from this one game, but nearly every other game by this Studio, Bioware is very very comfortable writing about LGBT characters. This thread topic isn't even asking to change the vanilla class romance options, it's just asking why they weren't included in the first place when some of the dialogue suggested that it was in it before release.

 

Also, you know what other moral values were defined by society? Whether a black and white person could get married. (Spoiler alert: they couldn't.) Society is not always right and if we don't speak up about it then nothing will ever change.

-

[Elessara]

I can't tell you what's valid to you, but IMO, romance is very low on the list.

 

It's low on the list ... for you. Not for others.

[ThomasStarWars]

Star wars is so much worse off without George Lucas. I never really appreciated the guy until we got the new films.

 

you and me both.

[ThomasStarWars]

It's low on the list ... for you. Not for others.

 

I'd say it's more low on the developers list than on anyone elses.

[Asmodesu]

I'd say it's more low on the developers list than on anyone elses.

 

character interactions overall seem at their lowest priority this past year and a bit. Sure there's a lot coming back now but it's the worst we've gotten in terms of quality for a long time in regards to companions. subjectively.

[BRKMSN]

It's low on the list ... for you. Not for others.

 

Yeah ... that's exactly what I said. I'm glad I was clear. I didn't see your rankings, however.

[Elessara]

I'd say it's more low on the developers list than on anyone elses.

 

The person who said it was low on the list was asking someone else to rate things they listed in order of importance. They weren't talking about the devs, just one player asking another how they would rate certain items and then making a statement that romances were low on the list. I simply said they were low on the list for them, not for other players.

[Elessara]

Yeah ... that's exactly what I said. I'm glad I was clear. I didn't see your rankings, however.

 

Except you didn't say they were low on the list for you. You just said they were low on the list, as though you were making a factual statement. Hence my reply.

[BRKMSN]

Except you didn't say they were low on the list for you. You just said they were low on the list, as though you were making a factual statement. Hence my reply.

Did I not say, "IMO" ?

[MikeCobalt]

character interactions overall seem at their lowest priority this past year and a bit. Sure there's a lot coming back now but it's the worst we've gotten in terms of quality for a long time in regards to companions. subjectively.

 

A long time ago (During KotET I believe) I said "Watch them throw the Comp.'s back at us in some bad way and say "There, you got'em now enough". When I stated that I was being...Less then...Civil. But Wow if it didn't seem that's what did happen. Firstly If their "Story Reunions were 1- Told to the players earlier, 2- Scheduled or Alluded to early enough this Subject that was part of the "reducing KotXX" would not have existed *Period. BioWares Developers used terms Like Promise, Trust Us, We know how important they are, Do this the right way. Right now during this "Content Drought" these reunions could've been 1- A Bright Spot to Hold Over until the next installment 2- Put an end to the Comps issue and 3- Rekindle one of SWTORs acclaimed best part. However like this its became another let down and some even creating more animosity then the longing for them to begin with. What coulda been great has turned into an ongoing subject of "I don't wanna talk about it".

[BRKMSN]

You do not know me. To say that my sexuality is a CHOICE is not a fact-based statement. I have no interest in discussing such a sensitive subject with someone that CHOOSES to be narrow-minded.

I see you know me well. Is narrow-mindedness really a choice? I certainly wouldn't choose it. It sounds awful ... like a stigma even.

[BlastBoomArt]

I see you know me well. Is narrow-mindedness really a choice? I certainly wouldn't choose it. It sounds awful ... like a stigma even.

 

We can continue to circle around each other, but there is obviously nothing to be gained here. I've said all I wanted to say on the matter. And frankly, I'm getting tired of justifying my right to exist in public to people who have no care for me or others like me.

 

Good night. I hope you get over your stigma.

-

[BRKMSN]

We can continue to circle around each other, but there is obviously nothing to be gained here. I've said all I wanted to say on the matter. And frankly, I'm getting tired of justifying my right to exist in public to people who have no care for me or others like me.

 

Good night. I hope you get over your stigma.

-

 

There are things we likely disagree on. We are both human beings (It's safe to assume we don't look like our avatars) and I care about human beings.

 

Take care.

[TrixxieTriss]

I had a lengthy discussion with a player I met in the game recently who explained how sad she was because all the early chapter companions cannot be same-sex romanced.

 

She told me how much she did enjoy Lana Beniko's story though, and that the romance really left her feeling quite moved. I was impressed that the story in the game, a later story to be exact could have that effect on someone. In actuality it makes me want to play through KOTFE and KOTET just to see if the story really is that good.

 

Anyway, my point is, I agree they dropped the ball when they first developed the game without including same-sex romances for all of the original companions.

 

I am curious, did they ever say why they did not?

 

I mean it seems no one cares if same-sex romances occur as they won't affect the individual because you can make choices what route the characters take with you so you can avoid any romance if that's not what you want.

 

It was posted years ago. George Lucas wouldn't allow it. Since he sold the rights to Disney, they have a different thought on the subject.

It would require quite a bit of work and cost to re-do the voice overs and scenes for the first three chapters, to put that aspect in.

 

I remember reading something while it was still in alpha - early beta development that said they planned on adding it. Then a certain religious right got involved and started a campaign against it.

George apparently panicked and pulled the plug because he didn’t want the controversy or the possibility it might tarnish the IP. This info came directly from some people who worked on the game.

I used to have a link to said article and even to the web pages set up to protest against the inclusion of same sex romance in the game. But those links no longer work.

Also, not long after release (after Disney purchased SW), this topic came up and the producer said they’d always planned to do it and it would be in future story. This is why we have the options with Lana and Theron.

It’s been pointed out before and I agree, that Kalyio was probably going to be a companion you could do this with. The early interactions with her could easily been flirt ones. I’m guessing they were rewritten early enough so they didn’t have to spend too much getting it revoiced,

 

I’ve always wanted the same sex options for those vanilla companions. It would have been more immersive for me if it had been (girls only FTW )

I’ve even argued for it many threads over the years asking Bioware to add the option. But it’s now too late as the game is in its twilight years and there certainly isn’t enough money to do it. Trying to do it now would be stupid and a waste of the little resources they have left.

At least now there are some options once you get to Lana and Theron. It’s just a shame those relationships aren’t really meaningful to your decisions or don’t have consequences later on if you cheat or something.

Edited April 30, 2018 by TrixxieTriss