Outrageous Respec Cost

[Sendrel]

Actually, it has nothing to do with them. It is what I want. When I group with a tank or healer for an operation or hardmode, I want them to be a HEALER or TANK. Not some scrub DPS that doesnt know what they are doing and respec just to get a group when they were too lazy to level as a tank or healer.

 

There should be a reward for playing one of the least popular roles. If you want to be a DPSer then DPS if you want to heal then be a Healer. The problem isnt Bioware, its your entitlment.

 

If you think that no DS will keep you from running across bad tanks and healers, you're incorrect.

[JediMasterShake]

Posting to rate.

 

The respec costs are purely ridiculous.

[Tewnam]

Implementing a system like Talent trees which have a lot of options and potential for experimentation and then penalizing people for doing that experimentation is just bad game design. It was bad in other games that did and it is still bad now.

 

On what basis is it bad considering that every successful game does that? The cost to respec is minute at max level. You get enough respecs at low enough cost that reset often enough to experiment at low levels.

[Sendrel]

Most of the people that are playing the game aren't even here ON THE FORUMS, so yes.. it's a fringe case of a fringe case. If you want to play the game at high levels, then you do what is necessary to do so. But don't expect a warm response when that isn't the way that the game was designed and in fact the way most players will play it.

 

You're out there on a limb, so deal with the consequences. As I've said, at least they've given you the path. It's unbelievably whiny to further complain that it's too inconvenient or costly for you. Ridiculous.

 

You can think of me personally however you'd like. I'd point out to you though that its a pretty bad way to make a point.

 

That said, you still didn't make a case that those who'd like DS are in any way a minority. As there's really no way to make such a claim without some pretty extensive polling, I'm just curious how you arrived at that conclusion.

[Lethality]

I'm not the minority, bro. DS is going to happen.

 

For this game to be effective, it's essential.

 

Stay in your box, but don't claim everyone is happy in there.

 

You can re-spec already.

 

What you're asking for is a convenience feature that is completely unnecessary, and extremely low on any prioritization order. Because for the average players, it's already solved.

 

Don't hold your breath.

 

And yes, you ARE the minority.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Lethality

[Garnet]

Most of the people that are playing the game aren't even here ON THE FORUMS, so yes.. it's a fringe case of a fringe case. If you want to play the game at high levels, then you do what is necessary to do so. But don't expect a warm response when that isn't the way that the game was designed and in fact the way most players will play it.

 

You're out there on a limb, so deal with the consequences. As I've said, at least they've given you the path. It's unbelievably whiny to further complain that it's too inconvenient or costly for you. Ridiculous.

 

Plenty of people who expect DS don't visit the forums, much less post on them. Rubbish evidence.

 

Also, you don't have a clue about the way "the game was designed" - you're not a developer, so get off your high horse. This game was meant to appeal to all sorts of gamers, min-maxers and the hardcore included - otherwise they'd never be making back the money spent.

[Maigrey]

This is exactly why they added an increase in costs and why they should keep it as is. Respec isn't intended to be done after every grouping, it is made for when you made the wrong decision regarding your play style.

 

Go look for an additional guild member who has either dps or healing and stick to one.

 

lets say my guild has 4 people online and we want to go run an FP, we have 3 DPS and 1 Tank, we need to pick one of our friends and say tough luck you can;t go, but we are gonna go find some random person to go with us.

 

Wouldn't it be much better if one of the DPS could say no problem let me spec heals and we can go.

 

I am level 30 now on my healer, and I can tell you this, it is taking me close to twice as long to kill mobs as it does for my DPS. Healers shouldn't be at such a huge disadvantage.

[Kunitsukami]

No it increases and once a week it get resetted

 

So it gets reset once a week?

[Truga]

And again, no, viability does not allow you to be competitive at top tier level. I'll just take it that you've never played at any respectable level against anyone half-decent.

 

I played quake 2 when it came out on a P75 with 16 megs of ram, and no hardware accelerated graphics. A lot of people told me I wouldn't be able to compete, because of this.

 

Fast forward a couple months, I was one of the top five or so AQ2 players in the country, while still on the same crappy machine, and using dial-up while a lot of people were already moving to ISDN/ADSL. I've destroyed entire clans of good players solo on one or two occasions. So yeah, I've played at a respectable level.

 

Oh yeah, and my country's team was the world champion at the time. But don't let that bother you.

 

So, now that I've matched your credentials, will you finally read my posts and think about them even a little bit, before sperging about how I've never played any competitive game?

 

Yes, viable means it's able to compete. It means you'll probably have a harder time to compete than with an optimal build, but there's literally nothing you can't achieve with a viable setup and enough skill to compensate for any shortcomings of your class.

 

I want builds to matter. I want to see people that fight in builds that can do both PVP and PVE, and I want to see them pull it off against people who spec'd exactly for the job. And it's up to BW to balance the game so that this is possible. Introducing dual-spec is the lazy way out of balancing builds. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Truga

[Ahlin]

Okay, I hate to do this, but I'm going to bring WoW into this discussion. I have a friend, that played wow for years, and he once told me this story:

 

Soon after dual spec was introduced, raiders were forced to use both their specs for raiding. One for tank/heal and one for dps, because some encounters required more tanks, some required more heals and some required more DPS. In the same dungeon.

 

And that's just one example of this.

 

How is this dual spec's fault.

 

If Dual spec hadn't been in you could also say that the person would of just been kicked out of the raid and replaced. Or forced to go back to Org/IF and respec anyway.

 

Dual specs are pure convenience, and add to the game. They do not detract from the game in any way shape or form, and saying they do is bordering on insanity.

 

Hell, I played a Warrior in vanilla, a priest in TBC, a paladin in WOTLK, and back to Warrior in cata. And every single expansion there were MANY TIMES I had to go back to town to respec to DPS/Tank/Heals, or to bring a second raid spec to raids. Did I mind? No, because I was helping my guild and my friends beat content instead of being a selfish *** who wants to stick to HIS spec because omg I shouldn't be forced to play someone elses way!

Edited January 4, 2012 by Ahlin

[Lethality]

You can think of me personally however you'd like. I'd point out to you though that its a pretty bad way to make a point.

 

That said, you still didn't make a case that those who'd like DS are in any way a minority. As there's really no way to make such a claim without some pretty extensive polling, I'm just curious how you arrived at that conclusion.

 

It's obvious. If the feature was there, players would use it (most likely). But if it's not, the MAJORITY of the players don't care and don't miss it. It's truly unnecessary, and has nothing to do with the success of the game.

 

Perhaps it does FOR YOU, but that's your decision. For the majority? Not a big deal. Barely a deal at all.

[TrifKaylon]

So it gets reset once a week?

 

Does it though? I asked downthread, but in my experience, while you do get a free respec, the price does not reset to zero, but possibly even increases at the same rate. I don't know if this a bug or what - and I can check tonight to make sure I'm correct. But I know for a fact that I hadn't respecced in more than a week, and the price displayed was around 3k credits (none were deducted, however, as the respec was still free).

[Truga]

So it gets reset once a week?

 

No, it gets reset a week after you last respec'd.

[Tierce]

If you just wait a few days, it will decrease drastically. I don't see how that's a big deal. If you can't play a spec you chose for 3 days, you need to lay off the energy drinks and take some chill pills. If you want to have immediate availability of other roles to play, level an alt.

[Truga]

How is this dual spec's fault.

 

If Dual spec hadn't been in you could also say that the person would of just been kicked out of the raid and replaced. Or forced to go back to Org/IF and respec anyway.

 

Dual specs are pure convenience, and add to the game. They do not detract from the game in any way shape or form, and saying they do is bordering on insanity.

 

Design raids so that once you're in and fighting, you can't have replacements. Problem solved. In fact, I'd like it this way even with DS, because otherwise it just promotes poor play.

[TrifKaylon]

It's obvious. If the feature was there, players would use it (most likely). But if it's not, the MAJORITY of the players don't care and don't miss it. It's truly unnecessary, and has nothing to do with the success of the game.

 

Perhaps it does FOR YOU, but that's your decision. For the majority? Not a big deal. Barely a deal at all.

 

True, but it's just as likely that the hypothetical non-forumite masses DO in fact miss this.

 

Either way, the game would be enriched with the implementation of dual spec. You should be rewarded for playing your class to it's full potential, and if you're punished for trying new things and new roles, that doesn't happen.

[Thermopylae]

High cost for respecs adds to the flavor of the game. By making it a tough decision whether to spend the credits, and by proxy, the time to attain them, you are making sure it is worth it to do so.

 

The reason this is how is should be is to preserve the distinct class differences, not allowing every gunslinger to be exactly the same, save for a trip to the Skill Mentor. I don't WANT it to be easy or cheap or whatever you may call it. I want to be as unique as possible, knowing that my role in the battle is limited to me and those like me. If I want that role to change, I want it to be a hard decision that takes planning and effort, so that when I emerge on the other side of that decision, I STILL feel unique.

 

That last thing I want is to have healers turned tanks turned dps with the click of a mouse between battles. Regardless of what a previous poster here said, a single thing CAN kill a game, and Rift is proof of that. When you have 4 classes that branch into many other potential builds, but then allow anyone to be virtually any build at any time with the click of a mouse, you ruined what could have been the WoW-killer.

 

Despite what the lazy people here say, people don't want to be all things at all times. Even if they think they do, they'll leave when the realize the game they are logging into has become dull and diluted because there are only really four to six classes in the game.

[Sendrel]

It's obvious. If the feature was there, players would use it (most likely). But if it's not, the MAJORITY of the players don't care and don't miss it. It's truly unnecessary, and has nothing to do with the success of the game.

 

Perhaps it does FOR YOU, but that's your decision. For the majority? Not a big deal. Barely a deal at all.

 

Couple things with this post.

 

First, you're claiming that if it was there people would use it which kind of suggests that people would like the feature.

 

Second, you're still claiming that people don't care with nothing to back it up other than the absence of forum posts. Or the fact that they're still playing. Neither of those things suggests to me that people 'don't care and don't miss it'. Just that they're not posting and still logging in.

 

I'm still logging in, I care and I miss it. Therefore the majority must want it?

[Deffin]

Wrong. You haven't even looked at what I've written. My complaint isn't money. It's time, rejuggling keybinds and the UI to play both competitvely. Although the money aspect is still an unfair penalty, but I can deal with it until they implement DS.

 

And again, no, viability does not allow you to be competitive at top tier level. I'll just take it that you've never played at any respectable level against anyone half-decent.

 

 

You are kidding correct? Right?

 

Why in Warfare are bows and arrows not being used anymore? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT VIABLE AND COMPETITIVE AGAINST GUNS. Please come out of the rock you are living under and quit trying to defend your defective arguement.

 

Also in MMOs and games in general there are things that are not viable. In World of Warcraft (dare I say it), in the top teir arena you would never see a holy priest. Because that was considered to be a PvE spec and not viable in PvP.

 

Hell even in PvE in StarWars. If there is a mob that does an AoE attack. A Vanguard would be more viable tanking because he wouldn't be hit by an AoE near the boss, whereas a Jedi Knight/Shadow would be.

 

Quit spewing crap to defend an argument that has so many holes in it. The respec cost money, it is a money sink in-place to make you THINK about your choices. Normally when you change a choice, you have to sacrafice something. In this case it is money.

 

And you are also complaining about rejuggling hotbars? Seriously? You picked a new spec. Unless you expect Bioware to place the spells on your hotbar exactly the way you want it (well they can because you think they are wizards)?

 

Perhaps this isn't the game for you as it requires a slight bit of thought in order to play. May I suggest a lighter game, like I Spy:Haunted House, where it tells you where to look and offers tips so you can be completely free of indepentant thought?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Deffin

[Ahlin]

Design raids so that once you're in and fighting, you can't have replacements. Problem solved. In fact, I'd like it this way even with DS, because otherwise it just promotes poor play.

 

At this point I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. Before I thought, yeah maybe he just has a different opinion. But this post makes me think you're clueless or just intentionally trolling people.

[SarahR]

You are kidding correct? Right?

 

Why in Warfare are bows and arrows not being used anymore? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT VIABLE AND COMPETITIVE AGAINST GUNS. Please come out of the rock you are living under and quit trying to defend your defective arguement.

 

Also in MMOs and games in general there are things that are not viable. In World of Warcraft (dare I say it), in the top teir arena you would never see a holy priest. Because that was considered to be a PvE spec and not viable in PvP.

 

Hell even in PvE in StarWars. If there is a mob that does an AoE attack. A Vanguard would be more viable tanking because he wouldn't be hit by an AoE near the boss, whereas a Jedi Knight/Shadow would be.

 

Quit spewing crap to defend an argument that has so many holes in it. The respec cost money, it is a money sink in-place to make you THINK about your choices. Normally when you change a choice, you have to sacrafice something. In this case it is money.

 

And you are also complaining about rejuggling hotbars? Seriously? You picked a new spec. Unless you expect Bioware to place the spells on your hotbar exactly the way you want it (well they can because you think they are wizards)?

 

Perhaps this isn't the game for you as it requires a slight bit of thought in order to play. May I suggest a lighter game, like I Spy:Haunted House, where it tells you where to look and offers tips so you can be completely free of indepentant thought?

 

 

Rift's quad spec would save your entire hotbar setup, including the spells you would gain/lose each spec change. Convenience at it's finest. It's called evolution.

[Truga]

At this point I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. Before I thought, yeah maybe he just has a different opinion. But this post makes me think you're clueless or just intentionally trolling people.

 

What, why? I'm pretty serious about this. All the games I've ever played denied additional players from entering difficult PVE content (i.e. raids) once the fighting has started.

[Tanomas]

On what basis is it bad considering that every successful game does that? The cost to respec is minute at max level. You get enough respecs at low enough cost that reset often enough to experiment at low levels.

 

Just because every "successful game" has been following this trend does not make it good design.

 

It's bad because you are throwing options at people and saying "hey go nuts and make your build, it's fun!" then you are turning around and kicking them in the crotch for doing exactly what you encouraged them to do.

 

Summary: being penalized for experimenting with something that encourages experimentation is not fun.

[Ahlin]

What, why? I'm pretty serious about this. All the games I've ever played denied additional players from entering difficult PVE content (i.e. raids) once the fighting has started.

 

Do you mean like, once combat has started, or once something is killed the raid is locked and nobody can enter? Because I've played plenty of games (WoW included) where the first is true, but I've never played a game where the second is. And I've played probably 90% of all MMO's that came out since 2004. Including F2P asian games out the wazoo. I'm fine with raid locks where people can't go to a different raid if they've already killed a boss or cleared one, but I'm definitely not fine with nobody being allowed to join once one has started.

[Nitewolfe]

Respeccing was never intended to be used as dual speccing.

Frankly bw should put a weekly cap on the times to can respec. Limit to like 3 times a week tops.